Update current system or build new?

[Big Swifty]

I’m using my computer primarily for photo editing, internet browsing, occasionally Word/Excel, and some other misc. stuff. No gaming. No video editing. No 3D. I do have a bad habit of keeping a lot of browser tabs open as well as any other programs I may be working with. It’s at the point where I now close everything but the program I’m working in, which isn’t the end of the world, but isn’t convenient either.

My main programs have been Capture One Pro for RAW conversion and editing with occasional trips to Photoshop, Nik Collection, Topaz. New client interested in 360 virtual tours, so new workflow demand means up to 600 (+/-) bracketed RAW photos per day, making some basic correctional edits in COP > exporting as 16 bit TIFF’s > 5 bracket exposure fusion in Photomatix > export results as 16 bit TIFF’s to PTGui for stitching (7-10 photos) > exporting the resulting stitched TIFF’s to Affinity Photo for final edits and saving the results as TIFF’s, .afphoto files and JPG’s > creating virtual tours using Pano2VR. Once I’m done with a project and it’s been delivered to the client I eliminate all the source RAW’s and TIFF’s and store the final JPG’s, TIFFS, and .afphoto files – just in case or for my own needs. This is all in addition to my normal photography, which seems kind of quaint now.

Built my first PC a few years ago after switching from a Macbook Pro, so I don’t know much about the inner workings, but enough to follow along.

Current System:

Intel i5-6500 (6’th Gen) with the integrated graphics

1 x 8 GB 2400/MHz Crucial Ballistix Sport

Gigabyte B150M-DS3H Motherboard

2TB (5400) HDD

Seasonic S12ii 80 520W Plus Bronze PSU

Cooler Master N200 case

4TB Seagate EHD for backup

I know my bottleneck is with my storage and RAM.

Option 1) First add another 8GB of RAM and an M.2 SSD (256 or 512?) solution for OS, programs and current projects. Also add another 2TB SSD for general storage – SATA if cheaper or not enough M.2 slots, maybe Crucial MX500.

Wondering if it might be wiser to just build new using faster/current generation CPU with 2 more cores and sell the old instead of putting money into it – yes, I know it’s just the RAM; the SSD's can migrate to any new machine I build in the future.

Option 2)

AMD Ryzen 5 3600 (No interest in overclocking)

2 x 16 GB 3200/MHz Crucial Ballistix Sport (or just 16 if 32 is overkill). 1 x 16 is cheaper than 2 x 8. 3200 is just about the same price as 3000 or lower.

ASRock B450M Pro 4 Motherboard (wanted to get the MSI B450M Mortar, but so far I can’t find it in my country)

256 or 512GB SSD solution for OS, programs and current projects.

2TB affordable/value SSD storage for photos, music, documents, etc.. Give up on spinning HDD's.

Corsair CX650 PSU (or similar quality)

Another Cooler Master N200 case

Keep the 4TB external HD for backups

GT 1030 DDR5 GPU

Looking for thoughts, opinions, suggestions. First, should I go with option 1 or 2? Other questions about SSD (confusing, lots of info out there) and GPU, which I know nothing about since I’ve always relied on integrated graphics and never gamed. I’d rather not drop $ on anything more than what I need for a GPU and instead spend it on CPU/RAM/SSD. Other than what I’ve described I just need to power my monitor, though I might add a second one in the future.

If I go with option 2 is that 2GB 1030 good enough or will it just be a n00b tax and I’ll have to get something better? If not, what are better options? Is buying a used GPU an option if I need something beefier but don’t want to spend much more than the price of a new 1030 ($110) or is that a mistake?

Any cooling concerns with option 2? The case includes two intake fans and one exhaust fan and current system runs fine.

Not sure about SSD’s. Anything I get will be a marked improvement over what I currently have, but if I can save by not buying a Samsung 970 EVO Plus and instead get something similar (was looking at HP EX920, but not available here) I’m fine with that figuring I’m not out to impress anyone by having the absolute fastest possible and in all likelihood I won’t notice any difference beyond the obvious HDD > SDD upgrade. Here’s the details on the MOBO as far as slots:

1 x PCI Express 3.0 x16 Slot (PCIE2: x16 mode)*

1 x PCI Express 2.0 x16 Slot (PCIE3: x4 mode)

4 x SATA3 6.0 Gb/s Connectors, support RAID (RAID 0, RAID 1 and RAID 10), NCQ, AHCI and Hot Plug*

- 1 x Ultra M.2 Socket (M2_1), supports M Key type 2242/2260/2280 M.2 PCI Express module up to Gen3 x4 (32 Gb/s) (with Matisse, Picasso, Summit Ridge, Raven Ridge and Pinnacle Ridge) or Gen3 x2 (16 Gb/s) (with Athlon 2xxGE series APU)**

- 1 x M.2 Socket (M2_2), supports M Key type 2230/2242/2260/2280 M.2 SATA3 6.0 Gb/s module

Been doing my research, but I’m open to brand/model suggestions for specific components. Where I live the selection is slimmer and the prices are higher than in the US, but I’m willing to search around to find a better option.

Thanks for any help/advice.

 

[SC489]

First step is to install a SSD for the system drive then take stock if you are content with the performance. How much spare RAM memory do you have shown by Task Manager when you are running your typical programs? Adding more RAM will only make a difference if you don't have much RAM headroom. Also use Autoruns to check / disable third party stuff running which you don't need.

 

[Billiam29]

Option 2)

AMD Ryzen 5 3600 (No interest in overclocking)

2 x 16 GB 3200/MHz Crucial Ballistix Sport (or just 16 if 32 is overkill). 1 x 16 is cheaper than 2 x 8. 3200 is just about the same price as 3000 or lower.

I’ve seen several mentions that the 3rd gen Ryzen CPUs want 3600 speed RAM. I’m not terribly well versed in why this is but I believe it has to do with the speed of the Infinity Fabric within the CPU. Something to research.

 

[ken_in_nh]

You're right that RAM and storage are your issues. First thing would be to move your OS and programs to a M2 PCIe NVMe SSD. Next would be to put in RAM to 32GB - future proofing yourself as your needs evolve. RAM is cheap enough right now.

Video card? Some new features of Photoshop need a decent GPU, but you may not need those features. Regardless, Puget Systems has good recommendations for them. A serviceable one is not that expensive - look at recommendations from your software vendor. Adobe, at least, has recs. Don't expect miracles in speedup though,

 

[CBR1100XX]

I’m using my computer primarily for photo editing, internet browsing, occasionally Word/Excel, and some other misc. stuff. No gaming. No video editing. No 3D. I do have a bad habit of keeping a lot of browser tabs open as well as any other programs I may be working with. It’s at the point where I now close everything but the program I’m working in, which isn’t the end of the world, but isn’t convenient either.

My main programs have been Capture One Pro for RAW conversion and editing with occasional trips to Photoshop, Nik Collection, Topaz. New client interested in 360 virtual tours, so new workflow demand means up to 600 (+/-) bracketed RAW photos per day, making some basic correctional edits in COP > exporting as 16 bit TIFF’s > 5 bracket exposure fusion in Photomatix > export results as 16 bit TIFF’s to PTGui for stitching (7-10 photos) > exporting the resulting stitched TIFF’s to Affinity Photo for final edits and saving the results as TIFF’s, .afphoto files and JPG’s > creating virtual tours using Pano2VR. Once I’m done with a project and it’s been delivered to the client I eliminate all the source RAW’s and TIFF’s and store the final JPG’s, TIFFS, and .afphoto files – just in case or for my own needs. This is all in addition to my normal photography, which seems kind of quaint now.

Built my first PC a few years ago after switching from a Macbook Pro, so I don’t know much about the inner workings, but enough to follow along.

Current System:

Intel i5-6500 (6’th Gen) with the integrated graphics

1 x 8 GB 2400/MHz Crucial Ballistix Sport

Gigabyte B150M-DS3H Motherboard

2TB (5400) HDD

Seasonic S12ii 80 520W Plus Bronze PSU

Cooler Master N200 case

4TB Seagate EHD for backup

I know my bottleneck is with my storage and RAM.

Option 1) First add another 8GB of RAM and an M.2 SSD (256 or 512?) solution for OS, programs and current projects. Also add another 2TB SSD for general storage – SATA if cheaper or not enough M.2 slots, maybe Crucial MX500.

Wondering if it might be wiser to just build new using faster/current generation CPU with 2 more cores and sell the old instead of putting money into it – yes, I know it’s just the RAM; the SSD's can migrate to any new machine I build in the future.

Option 2)

AMD Ryzen 5 3600 (No interest in overclocking)

2 x 16 GB 3200/MHz Crucial Ballistix Sport (or just 16 if 32 is overkill). 1 x 16 is cheaper than 2 x 8. 3200 is just about the same price as 3000 or lower.

ASRock B450M Pro 4 Motherboard (wanted to get the MSI B450M Mortar, but so far I can’t find it in my country)

256 or 512GB SSD solution for OS, programs and current projects.

2TB affordable/value SSD storage for photos, music, documents, etc.. Give up on spinning HDD's.

Corsair CX650 PSU (or similar quality)

Another Cooler Master N200 case

Keep the 4TB external HD for backups

GT 1030 DDR5 GPU

Looking for thoughts, opinions, suggestions. First, should I go with option 1 or 2? Other questions about SSD (confusing, lots of info out there) and GPU, which I know nothing about since I’ve always relied on integrated graphics and never gamed. I’d rather not drop $ on anything more than what I need for a GPU and instead spend it on CPU/RAM/SSD. Other than what I’ve described I just need to power my monitor, though I might add a second one in the future.

If I go with option 2 is that 2GB 1030 good enough or will it just be a n00b tax and I’ll have to get something better? If not, what are better options? Is buying a used GPU an option if I need something beefier but don’t want to spend much more than the price of a new 1030 ($110) or is that a mistake?

Any cooling concerns with option 2? The case includes two intake fans and one exhaust fan and current system runs fine.

Not sure about SSD’s. Anything I get will be a marked improvement over what I currently have, but if I can save by not buying a Samsung 970 EVO Plus and instead get something similar (was looking at HP EX920, but not available here) I’m fine with that figuring I’m not out to impress anyone by having the absolute fastest possible and in all likelihood I won’t notice any difference beyond the obvious HDD > SDD upgrade. Here’s the details on the MOBO as far as slots:

1 x PCI Express 3.0 x16 Slot (PCIE2: x16 mode)*

1 x PCI Express 2.0 x16 Slot (PCIE3: x4 mode)

4 x SATA3 6.0 Gb/s Connectors, support RAID (RAID 0, RAID 1 and RAID 10), NCQ, AHCI and Hot Plug*

- 1 x Ultra M.2 Socket (M2_1), supports M Key type 2242/2260/2280 M.2 PCI Express module up to Gen3 x4 (32 Gb/s) (with Matisse, Picasso, Summit Ridge, Raven Ridge and Pinnacle Ridge) or Gen3 x2 (16 Gb/s) (with Athlon 2xxGE series APU)**

- 1 x M.2 Socket (M2_2), supports M Key type 2230/2242/2260/2280 M.2 SATA3 6.0 Gb/s module

Been doing my research, but I’m open to brand/model suggestions for specific components. Where I live the selection is slimmer and the prices are higher than in the US, but I’m willing to search around to find a better option.

Thanks for any help/advice.

Quick note on memory, if at all possible get 2 RAM DIMMs VS a single one. Even if it's a little more money you'll get more bandwidth with dual channel which is important for Ryzen.

 

[Sean Nelson]

Update current system or build new?

My rule of thumb is: buy a system with lots of expansion capability, keep it, expanding as necessary until the next OS version comes out, and when that happens migrate to the new OS on a new system with lots of expansion capability.

 

[CAcreeks]

Update current system or build new?

My rule of thumb is: buy a system with lots of expansion capability, keep it, expanding as necessary until the next OS version comes out, and when that happens migrate to the new OS on a new system with lots of expansion capability.

It seems, based on your rule of thumb, that you didn't consider Windows 8 to be a real OS.

You were wise to wait. W10 was really awful in its early iterations, but 1903 and 1909 are relatively good, though still ugly.

With regards to Big Swifty, his/her software list looks like everything should perform OK with new SSD and more memory, as recommended above. Intel 6th generation is still good. It would be easy enough to add a GPU if needed for games or video editing.

 

[Sean Nelson]

Update current system or build new?

My rule of thumb is: buy a system with lots of expansion capability, keep it, expanding as necessary until the next OS version comes out, and when that happens migrate to the new OS on a new system with lots of expansion capability.

It seems, based on your rule of thumb, that you didn't consider Windows 8 to be a real OS.

Yeah, instead of "until the next OS version comes out" I should have said "until I want to upgrade to a new OS".

Windows 7 has served me very well over these past 10 years, and the pace of CPU performance improvements has slowed to the point where, even though this is the longest I've ever run a computer system, I'm actually still fairly happy with it. I probably wouldn't bother upgrading except for the fact that Windows 7 is coming out of support. And if I get something that will work nicely for 4K video editing, that'll be a plus too.

 

[Big Swifty]

Thanks for all the input and suggestions.

For now I'm thinking of making minor upgrades instead of a new build. Buy another 8GB of RAM and add a 1TB PCIe SSD for the OS and programs with a second partition for photos (currently just over 500GB worth). Next purchase would be a 2TB SSD (probably a SATA drive to save $) for general storage.

Hopefully this should speed things up and when I do decide to upgrade to a new CPU I can take the storage with me.

I have another question about the SSD compatibility with my motherboard (Gigabyte B150M-DS3H, LGA 1151) which I purchased in 2016.

I'm pretty sure I'm not going to have any compatibility issues, but not being the most computer literate person I'm always looking for confirmation before doing any upgrades.

I'm looking at a 1TB HP EX950 PCIe SSD but there are differing specifications on the motherboard box. One says "Expansion Slots - 2*PCIe 3.0 x1" and the other "M.2 (PCIe Gen3 x4 M.2). The drive is not on their online support list, though I'm assuming that's because it's an older MOBO and they don't update their supported component lists with every new component release. So I emailed Gigabyte asking about compatibility and got the following response:

"...it does not appear in the compatibility list of the M.2 discs of that model. You should see the part number to find it more precisely. This does not mean that it will not work; The compatibility list is of products that were tested and work 100% insured. Those who do not appear can work, only they were not tested and we cannot assure it."

Based on this and my previous assumption about not updating their lists, I'm guessing that I shouldn't have any problems using this SSD with this motherboard. Thoughts?

 

[Robert Zanatta]

PCIe Gen3 x4 M.2

That's for a standard M.2 format SSD. Supports NVMe, which is what your HP drive is.

 

[Sean Nelson]

I have another question about the SSD compatibility with my motherboard (Gigabyte B150M-DS3H, LGA 1151) which I purchased in 2016.

I'm looking at a 1TB HP EX950 PCIe SSD but there are differing specifications on the motherboard box. One says "Expansion Slots - 2*PCIe 3.0 x1" and the other "M.2 (PCIe Gen3 x4 M.2). ... I'm guessing that I shouldn't have any problems using this SSD with this motherboard. Thoughts?

M.2 is the form factor, it describes the physical connector and the shape of the card.

PCIe describes the electrical signalling and communications protocols.

If the board has M.2 designed for use with PCIe, you should have no problem. I recently added an M.2 PCIe SSD to the system I bought back in 2009, before M.2 was a glint in anyone's eye. I bought this M.2 to PCIe adapter card, plugged it into an empty PCIe slot on the motherboard, and I was off to the races. The adapter doesn't have any electronics on it, it's just a way to physically mount the SSD and connect the electrical signals between it and the PCIe bus.

If my 10-year old motherboard can do it, your 3-year old board can certainly do it too. You won't even need the adapter.

 

[ken_in_nh]

This thread interests me because I'm trying to decide whether to build a new machine or not. My current box is old - I5-2500 with an ancient video card. But with 16GB ram, and a SATA SSD boot drive, the performance (or lack of?) doesn't bother me much. My last vacation import took a few hours to import and build 1:1 previews, so I did something else in the meanwhile. Day to day LR work is fine. Don't do much video, and when I do, it's short clips that render in a few minutes.

So maybe I sit tight, and watch the Ryzen 3 ecosystem sort out a bit longer?

 

[afterburn]

From what you list, you are not CPU bound. Adding a SSD and videocard is going to make it feel like a completely new system (especially coming from a 5400rpm spinner!) and it's cheap to do so. Save your money. While it is fun to build something new and shops would love to sell, the CPU makes so little difference these days for most tasks it doesn't make sense in a lot of cases to upgrade.

 

[Ho72]

I know my bottleneck is with my storage and RAM.

RAM is sorely lacking for image editing. 16GB is the new minimum and 32GB is the sweet spot. WIth 32GB, your OS will be able to cache freely and your system's responsiveness will take a big step forward.

However, in looking over your proposed workload...

New client interested in 360 virtual tours, so new workflow demand means up to 600 (+/-) bracketed RAW photos per day, making some basic correctional edits in COP > exporting as 16 bit TIFF’s > 5 bracket exposure fusion in Photomatix > export results as 16 bit TIFF’s to PTGui for stitching (7-10 photos) > exporting the resulting stitched TIFF’s to Affinity Photo for final edits and saving the results as TIFF’s, .afphoto files and JPG’s > creating virtual tours using Pano2VR. Once I’m done with a project and it’s been delivered to the client I eliminate all the source RAW’s and TIFF’s and store the final JPG’s, TIFFS, and .afphoto files – just in case or for my own needs. This is all in addition to my normal photography, which seems kind of quaint now.

I'm thinking you need all the RAM you can stuff in your box. Panos are particularly greedy memory hogs, depending on their size, of course.

Question: Do you think an HDR workflow is necessary? With the dynamic range of newer cameras and Capture One's built-in HDR capability (especially the most recent release), I find that my use of Photomatix has dropped to zero. I sometimes blend a couple of images using luminosity masks but that's about it. You may want to explore cutting some steps/time out of your processing because it sounds as if you'll be pretty busy.

OK, back to your hardware. You will likely want to upgrade your 5400 RPM HDD at some point and possibly install a dedicated video card. C1, Photoshop and newer Topaz software all take advantage of the GPU. I'm not familiar with Affinity or your other pano packages but it's likely that they will make use of the GPU as well. I just installed an Nvidia GTX 1660 and I'm really pleased, but your needs may be different. Ask around in the software forums, contact support or check out the system requirements to see what is recommended for your applications. Err on the side of more horsepower, not less. The limitation here will probably be your PSU. You don't want to install a card that will tax your power supply. That's one of the reasons I settled on the 1660. It won't draw more than 150w, which is not an issue for my system.

Good luck.

 

[gs85739az]

--Buy ALL the RAM you can afford.

Backup EVERYTHING that matters to an external HDD and do a CLEAN OS re-install of windows, the sluggish PC will RACE like the wind afterwards...

"IF" you're making money with this PC, then always buy what will make your "business" pay you dividends, otherwise...more RAM should be just fine.
Gary