Those that can, do. Those that can't, talk about it. Endlessly.

[OzRay]

There have been several threads now about m4/3 sensors/cameras and the usual debates about how FF etc is so much better because everything's better than m4/3.

The thing that I note is that there are many here that are producing marvellous stuff with m4/3, some specialising in specific areas and others more as generalists. These m4/3 users are out there doing and showing what can be done with m4/3 and producing great examples.

On the other hand, the most notable thing in all of these debates is that the m4/3 naysayers never seem to have anything to show for what they do with their 'better' cameras. Some profess to own up to three different FF systems, yet have nothing to show for it but a lot of hot air.

These latter people seem to insist that they must have the best possible (but they don't own a Phase One or the like), yet they provide no examples of what they do with 'their best possible cameras'. You wonder why these people even bother with m4/3, given how they disparage every aspect of the m4/3 system.

How many of these people can actually walk the walk and not just talk the talk?

 

[Sergey_Green]

I get that feeling we can make the great discussion out of it, where are your pictures?

--
- sergey

 

[G L]

Its so ridiculous.
Someone who wants, needs,... FF should buy it and be happy.
For many m43 is a good compromise beetween size and capability.
And if you dont do very low light or very shallow DOF I do not know what you miss with m43.
Sure, some need FF or even MF. Just go and buy it and be happy.

 

[Terrible Photographer]

There have been several threads now about m4/3 sensors/cameras and the usual debates about how FF etc is so much better because everything's better than m4/3.

The thing that I note is that there are many here that are producing marvellous stuff with m4/3, some specialising in specific areas and others more as generalists. These m4/3 users are out there doing and showing what can be done with m4/3 and producing great examples.

On the other hand, the most notable thing in all of these debates is that the m4/3 naysayers never seem to have anything to show for what they do with their 'better' cameras. Some profess to own up to three different FF systems, yet have nothing to show for it but a lot of hot air.

These latter people seem to insist that they must have the best possible (but they don't own a Phase One or the like), yet they provide no examples of what they do with 'their best possible cameras'. You wonder why these people even bother with m4/3, given how they disparage every aspect of the m4/3 system.

How many of these people can actually walk the walk and not just talk the talk?

 

[Sergey_Green]

Its so ridiculous.
Someone who wants, needs,... FF should buy it and be happy.
For many m43 is a good compromise beetween size and capability.
And if you dont do very low light or very shallow DOF I do not know what you miss with m43.

Kind of the point I was trying to make on the other thread,

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/60331021

I think the title of this thread should be "Why having been told matters" - would not you agree?

Sure, some need FF or even MF. Just go and buy it and be happy.

 

[OzRay]

I get that feeling we can make the great discussion out of it, where are your pictures?

 

[Sergey_Green]

I get that feeling we can make the great discussion out of it, where are your pictures?

 

[OzRay]

I get that feeling we can make the great discussion out of it, where are your pictures?

 

[SiFu]

Hello!

Cool, something new, instead of this camera va that camera we are extending to images of this country vs images of that country and why one are better now. More power to you!

Best,

Alex

PS: irony aside, I agree that all brand wars etc are redundant and futile - I think digital cameras from 1" sensors on reached a point where they were good for all general shooting about 6-7 years ago. Special needs still require special gears (or extreme creativity and effort in some cases). For that matter I too am tired of "my FF bests your whatever" threads.

 

[Sergey_Green]

I get that feeling we can make the great discussion out of it, where are your pictures?

--
- sergey

Have you ever looked at the link in my signature? My blog is now recorded in the National Library of Australia Archives as a historical record of life in South Gippsland, Victoria, Australia. So what I do actually has some meaning.

Don't you feel stupid asking such a question when the answer is staring you in the face?

No, not at all. Unless you insist that the title, membership or simply a blog makes you a better photographer than those who discuss technical points of each system instead. Have not you seen a link in my signature, here

https://www.flickr.com/photos/97512826@N06/sets/72157634195387985/

Could any of those snaps be good enough for your blog?

--
- sergey

I'm not saying I'm a better photographer than anyone else. I'm saying that those who talk the talk, but give no evidence of walking the walk should just shut up.

Then you should be posting your pictures first, and instead of making references to the other sites and blogs as you did.

I saw the link in your sig. I'm not sure what a Samsung S2 has to do with m4/3.

Nothing, but I thought your message was about those who can vs. those who can not. And I suggested (implied rather) that you post your images first.

Your Flicker site is nothing more than a drop in the ocean of a billion or whatever photos on Flicker and the web overall.

Your blog is bigger?

If you're actually trying to convey something, why not go the extra yards and do it properly? Write about your photographs and make them meaningful. Who gives a rat's rectum about what took the photos.

So it is about telling then? Does not your title also say - "Those that can't, talk about it." ?

Tell people why you took the photos, where they were taken, why you took them, what the photos mean to you. Without that, anyone can go and search Google for photos of Austria or wherever else and get millions of results.

Well, you see, now you are in a complete contradiction to what it appeared this thread was about. Do you ever read what you post?

--
- sergey

 

[OzRay]

Hello!

Cool, something new, instead of this camera va that camera we are extending to images of this country vs images of that country and why one are better now. More power to you!

This thread had nothing to do with one country or the other, it's about demonstrating that all of this talk about formats is actually meaningful.

PS: irony aside, I agree that all brand wars etc are redundant and futile - I think digital cameras from 1" sensors on reached a point where they were good for all general shooting about 6-7 years ago. Special needs still require special gears (or extreme creativity and effort in some cases). For that matter I too am tired of "my FF bests your whatever" threads.

There is always a case for specialist tools. But it's usually specialists that require specialist tools.

 

[OzRay]

I'm not saying I'm a better photographer than anyone else. I'm saying that those who talk the talk, but give no evidence of walking the walk should just shut up.

Then you should be posting your pictures first, and instead of making references to the other sites and blogs as you did.

The only reference is my own blog. If people are interested in what I do, then they can look at my blog. I prefer not to thrust 2000+ photographs upon the m4/3 viewers.

I saw the link in your sig. I'm not sure what a Samsung S2 has to do with m4/3.

Nothing, but I thought your message was about those who can vs. those who can not. And I suggested (implied rather) that you post your images first.

See above.

Your Flicker site is nothing more than a drop in the ocean of a billion or whatever photos on Flicker and the web overall.

Your blog is bigger?

Now you're talking crap.

If you're actually trying to convey something, why not go the extra yards and do it properly? Write about your photographs and make them meaningful. Who gives a rat's rectum about what took the photos.

So it is about telling then? Does not your title also say - "Those that can't, talk about it." ?

Your crap bucket is filling up.

Tell people why you took the photos, where they were taken, why you took them, what the photos mean to you. Without that, anyone can go and search Google for photos of Austria or wherever else and get millions of results.

Well, you see, now you are in a complete contradiction to what it appeared this thread was about. Do you ever read what you post?

You're not interested in being reasonable and having a mature discussion are you? After all these years extending back to the 4/3 days, it's still simply antagonism for the sake of antagonism.

You should go on Twitter, I'm sure that you'd feel right at home from what I understand that cess pool represents. As from now on, I'll only know what you post should someone quote you and I feel like reading that quote.

Have a wonderful life.

 

[paul cool]

Its so ridiculous.
Someone who wants, needs,... FF should buy it and be happy.
For many m43 is a good compromise beetween size and capability.
And if you dont do very low light or very shallow DOF I do not know what you miss with m43.

Kind of the point I was trying to make on the other thread,

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/60331021

I think the title of this thread should be "Why having been told matters" - would not you agree?

Sure, some need FF or even MF. Just go and buy it and be happy.

 

[Chris Tsorotes]

I'll add this much.

I recently sold my M43 gear and went to Full frame, I am actually not seeing any benefit and seriously considering selling the full frame gear and going back to M43, in terms of size/quality compromise it is actually really good.

 

[Brian Wadie]

I'm a photographer so I buy a camera that meets my needs

You are a photographer so you buy a camera that meets your needs

You needs are different from mine so our decisions on what we buy will probably also differ

The fact that someone feels the need to tell me I am wrong in my choice tells me more about their psychology than it does about their ability as a photographer

What we see in these threads appears to me to be an example of the nature of our society and the state of extended childhood that most seem to live in, where "my toys are better than your toys"

Use what you like and ignore those who would try to tell you different

 

[Messier Object]

There have been several threads now about m4/3 sensors/cameras and the usual debates

about how FF etc is so much better because everything's better than m4/3.

my reading is that most of those posts describe better DoF control and some high ISO differences, yet almost all acknowledge M.43 size and weight advantages and "good enough" image quality.

The thing that I note is that there are many here that are producing marvellous stuff with m4/3, some specialising in specific areas and others more as generalists. These m4/3 users are out there doing and showing what can be done with m4/3 and producing great examples.

yes indeed, and this after all this is a M.43 forum, where better to post those images.

On the other hand, the most notable thing in all of these debates is that the m4/3 naysayers never seem to have anything to show for what they do with their 'better' cameras. Some profess to own up to three different FF systems, yet have nothing to show for it but a lot of hot air.b.

what do you want them to show Ray?

These latter people seem to insist that they must have the best possible

I think your interpretation is wrong. I don't recall reading anywhere that anyone posting in this forum has made any such insistence. I've seen posts where FF users state that they like better DoF control and better low low light performance, "better", not "best"

(but they don't own a Phase One or the like), yet they provide no examples of what they do with 'their best possible cameras'. You wonder why these people even bother with m4/3, given how

they disparage every aspect of the m4/3 system.

again, I've never seen that

How many of these people can actually walk the walk and not just talk the talk?

I might ask how often you shoot with a modern FF digital camera.

How often do you have the opportunity to choose between FF and M.43 for a particular task? Do you ever think about whether a larger sensor might offer you specific advantages under certain conditions? Just curious.

Talking the talk, isn't that what discussion forums are all about, and where both extremes of opinion as well as the middle ground are to be found ?

Peter

 

[Okapi001]

What i really would like m43 to be a little more improved in iso for wildlife

Why? NatGeo rejected your perfect image of a snow leopard because of a too much ISO related noise?

500px

500px.com

 

[NCV]

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Okapi001]

Use what you like and ignore those who would try to tell you different

Well, there is a saying (in my language, at least), that giving advice is futile - smart people don't need it and stupid don't listen to it.

Other than that, on this forum there are always a lot of questions about what gear to use or to buy, or how to use it. So it seems there are people that need advice.

And I think it is good for your karma if you tell from time to time to less informed or educated photographers that you really don't need a FF to get all the DoF you really need for a good photo.

 

[Messier Object]

What i really would like m43 to be a little more improved in iso for

wildlife starting point is normal to be around iso 800 m43 like the 1 inch cameras need good light to keep you below this and higher iso takes hit on sharpness resolving capabilities ,do not get me wrong i use 1600,3200 iso but never will i be printing a3+ with these isos.

well this how it seems to me could just do with later m43 cameras maybe with back side illumination iso 1600 to be like iso 800 would be almost perfect for me ,i have not given up on ff i still would like a sony a7r 2or3 but then i have as much desire for the sony rx10 iv as good do it all one package lens and camera.

Why? NatGeo rejected your perfect image of a snow leopard because of a too much ISO related noise?

I'm not understanding your post here. It makes no sense as a response to what Paul posted, even as an attempt at humour.

Peter