The same arguments about the EM1x

[TN Args]

"It's too expensive"
Currently the Nikon D750, a 24mp FF body retails at $1300 at BH, the Nikon D5 retails at $6500 at BH. How can Nikon justify the price difference? It isn't image quality as the D750 has that beaten on all fronts. We are talking 4 times the price, how could they dare ask such a price with no IQ improvement????

Oh come on. The Nikon D5 has all the tech Nikon can bring to bear for a DSLR. It has better components - mechanical and electronic - than any other camera ion the line. Absolutely beats the D850 in frame speed, focus speed, tracking assuredness, frame blackout time, HI ISO performance, battery performance, robustness, etc, etc. It is easily the most amazing DSLR ever built.

You too?

 

[Okapi001]

"It's too expensive"
Currently the Nikon D750, a 24mp FF body retails at $1300 at BH, the Nikon D5 retails at $6500 at BH. How can Nikon justify the price difference? It isn't image quality as the D750 has that beaten on all fronts. We are talking 4 times the price, how could they dare ask such a price with no IQ improvement????

The reason the D5 sells for what it does is not entirely limited to the camera body. If you are buying one of those your most likely a very serious or pro sports or wildlife shooter. The reason you pay the big bucks for a D5 or Canons 1Dx is that combined with the companies expensive, large, fast tele lenses, the combo can do things that no other camera lens combination can do.

Like what? When you spend 6500 on a camera body vs 1300 you expect the body to deliver an advantage. My comparison was inside formats.

This will not change with the EM1X unless Oly releases lenses like a 200 1.4 (FF 400 2.8). A 150-400 4 or anything close to that is not going to change that.

You are suggesting that photographers are after equivalent apertures. As we can see from the wildlife exhibit on the home page, we don't actually need the apertures you are suggesting... So we are left with sports.

Again you suggest that wildlife photographers don’t use their big lenses wide open. And you base that on one or two exhibits you’ve looked at.

What about this observation

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/61892536

“Wildlife Photographer of the year 2018 . . . it was dominated with Full Frame with the 200-400 F4, 500mm F4 and your typical 100-400ish lens. The majority of the shots were shot wide open and couldn't be achieved with M43 cameras”

Nothing in that link supports what you said. The overwhelming majority of this years winners used focal lengths and apertures easily achieved on current mFT lenses.

And even for the photos, made outside of the shooting envelope of the m4/3 system, you don't really know if that is actually good, or perhaps not so much. Because you never have the exact same subject, made with the m4/3 system, for comparison. A little more noise would perhaps be all but invisible, and one or two stops deeper DoF would perhaps made the photo even better.

 

[TN Args]

How can anyone here know anything about the performance of a camera by the way it looks?

Let me help:

"It's too big"
We read this again and again, and despite many users chiming in that for a long day shooting, or when shooting with heavy lenses they prefer to use the grip. I can tell you that for every professional shoot I do with the EM1.2 or EM5.2 they both are gripped.

We don't know what Olympus has chosen to do with the extra room, maybe it is for the dual processors and cooling, maybe it is for extra IBIS tech and motion sensors, maybe it has sim tech/wifi and an antenna etc.

"It's too expensive"
Currently the Nikon D750, a 24mp FF body retails at $1300 at BH, the Nikon D5 retails at $6500 at BH. How can Nikon justify the price difference? It isn't image quality as the D750 has that beaten on all fronts. We are talking 4 times the price, how could they dare ask such a price with no IQ improvement????

The Pen F, a 20mp rangefinder is currently $999 at BH, at $3000 this body would be 3 times the price. It would offer a number of technical features that the Pen doesn't, as well as the usual benchmarks of a professional grade tool of build quality, reliability etc.

But more importantly if it performs the part, and we have no idea yet, it is under half the price of the larger sensor camera targeting the same market.

"The sensor is tiny"

Its a deal breaker since m43 can't match the dof control ff provides, for me, everything else you wrote matters 0.

As far as sensor size is different this deal breaker stays, i will never consider m43 camera.

So why are you here? A third of all your post history is in this forum: why?

Also second very important point, i can use all the lenses designes for ff film cameras on ff sensor and most of them are cheaply available.

You can use them on m43 but then the crop factor is a deal breaker.

You can use them on m43 without the crop factor. Deal-unbreaker? Somehow I doubt it.

I am sure for lots of camera buyers what i said is very important but somehow you missed it completely.

Yes I am sure it is considered important by lots of camera buyers. I doubt the OP missed the fact that most people worship size and prioritise excess over adequacy. But there is a rational counter-argument to this confusion of needs and wants, and the OP put it to the forum. Missed nothing.

 

[zxaar]

1. TN Args wrote:

How can anyone here know anything about the performance of a camera by the way it looks?

Let me help:

"It's too big"
We read this again and again, and despite many users chiming in that for a long day shooting, or when shooting with heavy lenses they prefer to use the grip. I can tell you that for every professional shoot I do with the EM1.2 or EM5.2 they both are gripped.

We don't know what Olympus has chosen to do with the extra room, maybe it is for the dual processors and cooling, maybe it is for extra IBIS tech and motion sensors, maybe it has sim tech/wifi and an antenna etc.

"It's too expensive"
Currently the Nikon D750, a 24mp FF body retails at $1300 at BH, the Nikon D5 retails at $6500 at BH. How can Nikon justify the price difference? It isn't image quality as the D750 has that beaten on all fronts. We are talking 4 times the price, how could they dare ask such a price with no IQ improvement????

The Pen F, a 20mp rangefinder is currently $999 at BH, at $3000 this body would be 3 times the price. It would offer a number of technical features that the Pen doesn't, as well as the usual benchmarks of a professional grade tool of build quality, reliability etc.

But more importantly if it performs the part, and we have no idea yet, it is under half the price of the larger sensor camera targeting the same market.

"The sensor is tiny"

Its a deal breaker since m43 can't match the dof control ff provides, for me, everything else you wrote matters 0.

As far as sensor size is different this deal breaker stays, i will never consider m43 camera.

So why are you here? A third of all your post history is in this forum: why?

I am here for fun and people like you who defend their beloved gear provide me that.

In anyway its none of your business. You have made enough personal attacks in this thread that you should be banned by now but i am sure mods will let you attacks others too.

Also second very important point, i can use all the lenses designes for ff film cameras on ff sensor and most of them are cheaply available.

You can use them on m43 but then the crop factor is a deal breaker.

You can use them on m43 without the crop factor. Deal-unbreaker? Somehow I doubt it.

Sounds gibberish to me.

I am sure for lots of camera buyers what i said is very important but somehow you missed it completely.

Yes I am sure it is considered important by lots of camera buyers. I doubt the OP missed the fact that most people worship size and prioritise excess over adequacy. But there is a rational counter-argument to this confusion of needs and wants, and the OP put it to the forum. Missed nothing.

So basically you made personal attack and spoke on behalf of op as to what he must have felt but there is nothing to address the main point i made

- m43 will never have the dof control of ff. Its deal breaker for some and considered quite important aspect.

 

[nostradamus_8]

1. TN Args wrote:

How can anyone here know anything about the performance of a camera by the way it looks?

Let me help:

"It's too big"
We read this again and again, and despite many users chiming in that for a long day shooting, or when shooting with heavy lenses they prefer to use the grip. I can tell you that for every professional shoot I do with the EM1.2 or EM5.2 they both are gripped.

We don't know what Olympus has chosen to do with the extra room, maybe it is for the dual processors and cooling, maybe it is for extra IBIS tech and motion sensors, maybe it has sim tech/wifi and an antenna etc.

"It's too expensive"
Currently the Nikon D750, a 24mp FF body retails at $1300 at BH, the Nikon D5 retails at $6500 at BH. How can Nikon justify the price difference? It isn't image quality as the D750 has that beaten on all fronts. We are talking 4 times the price, how could they dare ask such a price with no IQ improvement????

The Pen F, a 20mp rangefinder is currently $999 at BH, at $3000 this body would be 3 times the price. It would offer a number of technical features that the Pen doesn't, as well as the usual benchmarks of a professional grade tool of build quality, reliability etc.

But more importantly if it performs the part, and we have no idea yet, it is under half the price of the larger sensor camera targeting the same market.

"The sensor is tiny"

Its a deal breaker since m43 can't match the dof control ff provides, for me, everything else you wrote matters 0.

As far as sensor size is different this deal breaker stays, i will never consider m43 camera.

So why are you here? A third of all your post history is in this forum: why?

I am here for fun and people like you who defend their beloved gear provide me that.

In anyway its none of your business. You have made enough personal attacks in this thread that you should be banned by now but i am sure mods will let you attacks others too.

Also second very important point, i can use all the lenses designes for ff film cameras on ff sensor and most of them are cheaply available.

You can use them on m43 but then the crop factor is a deal breaker.

You can use them on m43 without the crop factor. Deal-unbreaker? Somehow I doubt it.

Sounds gibberish to me.

I am sure for lots of camera buyers what i said is very important but somehow you missed it completely.

Yes I am sure it is considered important by lots of camera buyers. I doubt the OP missed the fact that most people worship size and prioritise excess over adequacy. But there is a rational counter-argument to this confusion of needs and wants, and the OP put it to the forum. Missed nothing.

So basically you made personal attack and spoke on behalf of op as to what he must have felt but there is nothing to address the main point i made

- m43 will never have the dof control of ff. Its deal breaker for some and considered quite important aspect.

In other words, you are the definition of a troll.

 

[Ab Latchin]

1. TN Args wrote:

How can anyone here know anything about the performance of a camera by the way it looks?

Let me help:

"It's too big"
We read this again and again, and despite many users chiming in that for a long day shooting, or when shooting with heavy lenses they prefer to use the grip. I can tell you that for every professional shoot I do with the EM1.2 or EM5.2 they both are gripped.

We don't know what Olympus has chosen to do with the extra room, maybe it is for the dual processors and cooling, maybe it is for extra IBIS tech and motion sensors, maybe it has sim tech/wifi and an antenna etc.

"It's too expensive"
Currently the Nikon D750, a 24mp FF body retails at $1300 at BH, the Nikon D5 retails at $6500 at BH. How can Nikon justify the price difference? It isn't image quality as the D750 has that beaten on all fronts. We are talking 4 times the price, how could they dare ask such a price with no IQ improvement????

The Pen F, a 20mp rangefinder is currently $999 at BH, at $3000 this body would be 3 times the price. It would offer a number of technical features that the Pen doesn't, as well as the usual benchmarks of a professional grade tool of build quality, reliability etc.

But more importantly if it performs the part, and we have no idea yet, it is under half the price of the larger sensor camera targeting the same market.

"The sensor is tiny"

Its a deal breaker since m43 can't match the dof control ff provides, for me, everything else you wrote matters 0.

As far as sensor size is different this deal breaker stays, i will never consider m43 camera.

So why are you here? A third of all your post history is in this forum: why?

I am here for fun and people like you who defend their beloved gear provide me that.

In anyway its none of your business. You have made enough personal attacks in this thread that you should be banned by now but i am sure mods will let you attacks others too.

Also second very important point, i can use all the lenses designes for ff film cameras on ff sensor and most of them are cheaply available.

You can use them on m43 but then the crop factor is a deal breaker.

You can use them on m43 without the crop factor. Deal-unbreaker? Somehow I doubt it.

Sounds gibberish to me.

I am sure for lots of camera buyers what i said is very important but somehow you missed it completely.

Yes I am sure it is considered important by lots of camera buyers. I doubt the OP missed the fact that most people worship size and prioritise excess over adequacy. But there is a rational counter-argument to this confusion of needs and wants, and the OP put it to the forum. Missed nothing.

So basically you made personal attack and spoke on behalf of op as to what he must have felt but there is nothing to address the main point i made

- m43 will never have the dof control of ff. Its deal breaker for some and considered quite important aspect.

Lol. That last line. Classic. Most of the time m43rds has the exact same DOF control, there are a few apertures unavailable by 2/3rds of a stop. Aside from that it is mostly overlap.

--
::> I make spelling mistakes. May Dog forgive me for this.

 

[ahaslett]

 

[nostradamus_8]

Trolling is quite popular so not sure I agree with it being strange. Basically some have no normal life to attend so they have to waste their time somewhere.

 

[Androole]

How can anyone here know anything about the performance of a camera by the way it looks?

Let me help:

"It's too big"
We read this again and again, and despite many users chiming in that for a long day shooting, or when shooting with heavy lenses they prefer to use the grip. I can tell you that for every professional shoot I do with the EM1.2 or EM5.2 they both are gripped.

So your preference for a gripped E-M1 II for professional shoots means that a gripped E-M1 II should be what everybody else wants and needs - is that what you are saying ?

Do you use the E-M1 II for non professional work ?

Do you always use the battery grip for recreational shooting, eg when travelling ?

Can’t you at least acknowledge that many people would like the best Olympus camera but with the option to remove the grip when they want a less bulky body ?

we actually do know what’s in the majority of the extra space of the EM1X. It’s a slide-in carriage that takes two BLH-1 batteries

Peter

He's presenting himself as an example of a potential buyer for this camera. I'm not the target audience, and I suspect most m43 users are not the target audience. Most Nikon, Canon and Sony users are not the target audience for the D5, 1DX and A9. but they accept that and use what they like.

Guys and girls, it's only January! There are strong rumors that Olympus will introduce 3 bodies this year. The EM1X is the new flagship, nothing more. The more consumer friendly models are coming later. Stop treating this camera like it is the last stand for Olympus. It's not.

In theory you may be correct but in real life not so much...

Because in real life, Olympus executives are magically animated snowmen who - like Frosty - will melt away come spring, forever foiling their plans to release more cameras?

I assume that is what you meant...

 

[Steve Rushing]

I'm apparently in the target market. I spend my 'free' time in the wild. I guess I'm a nature/ adventure/wildlife enthusiast. I make a lot of gear choices that can impact my safety and comfort on a specific trip. These holistic 'compromises' directly impact the overall success of a trip.

I am also a photography enthusiast. So my camera kit size matters in relationship to it's fit within my overall gear for a specific trip as well. My current thinking is the EM1X with the 150-400 is shaping up as an attractive choice for my more rigorous trips where I have sufficient logistics to deal with the EM1X's 'biggness'. But, not sufficient for full Monty FF. As much as I would like to take the best, most rugged of everything, but I'm not sponsored so budget matters and since I doubt my wife wants to be my team weight matters.

So if Olympus delivers, and realizing that it will be a specialty addition to my camera gear (I'm keeping my EM ii and 14-150 for a lot of kayaking trips), I'm in.

BTW, these 'expedition-like' birding, wildlife, safari, eco-tourism trips are a growing segment of the travel industry. In choosing this market, I think Olympus has done this part of the marketing function smartly. My concern is they have yet to show they can successfully execute the the other marketing functions. Marketing has been one of their strengths. IMO, one of the features they are selling is 'lifestyle'. I haven't seen anything yet in their pre-release campaign that indicates they are moving quickly to get visibility into the target market's gear decision channels. Hopefully that's coming.

 

[G Dickson]

To the OP: one of the most intelligent and well thought out posts on this subject. Actually the only one I suspect.

 

[Adielle]

Too much time, man. Far too much effort for nothing important. Yes, speculation, etc. are often ridiculous. But you know, wasting so much time on this BS is also ridiculous.

 

[iamphil]

According to the poll here 20 percent of the respondents on this forum say they either will get it or might in the first year.

That isn't bad considering this forum is a social space that probably skewed towards the amateur and enthusiast.

As that to the actual research Olympus has, and I think they are in a far more informed position than the majority of people here.

In retrospect this turned out to be one of the many missteps towards their downfall as they would exit the business within less than two years time. Don't get addicted to copium, folks. It claimed a large number in this thread.

 

[Ab Latchin]

According to the poll here 20 percent of the respondents on this forum say they either will get it or might in the first year.

That isn't bad considering this forum is a social space that probably skewed towards the amateur and enthusiast.

As that to the actual research Olympus has, and I think they are in a far more informed position than the majority of people here.

In retrospect this turned out to be one of the many missteps towards their downfall as they would exit the business within less than two years time. Don't get addicted to copium, folks. It claimed a large number in this thread.

Copium…

 

[Photongraphy]

According to the poll here 20 percent of the respondents on this forum say they either will get it or might in the first year.

That isn't bad considering this forum is a social space that probably skewed towards the amateur and enthusiast.

As that to the actual research Olympus has, and I think they are in a far more informed position than the majority of people here.

In retrospect this turned out to be one of the many missteps towards their downfall as they would exit the business within less than two years time. Don't get addicted to copium, folks. It claimed a large number in this thread.

Still... strangely enough, years later we see the 1X getting more and more popular...

Was it a misstep, or was it killed by online prejudiced reviews?

 

[James Stirling]

According to the poll here 20 percent of the respondents on this forum say they either will get it or might in the first year.

That isn't bad considering this forum is a social space that probably skewed towards the amateur and enthusiast.

As that to the actual research Olympus has, and I think they are in a far more informed position than the majority of people here.

In retrospect this turned out to be one of the many missteps towards their downfall as they would exit the business within less than two years time. Don't get addicted to copium, folks. It claimed a large number in this thread.

Still... strangely enough, years later we see the 1X getting more and more popular...

Do we ? , I think what you see is that the used prices are such a bargain that some folk are prepared to give it a go. Who would never have bought it at its full retail price

If the camera is within your shooting niche the used prices you can find vg copies under £600 , excellent examples are under £700 such as this one from MPB AT £659

Loading…

www.mpb.com

It really is a lot of bang for the buck this camera launched here in the UK at £2799

Was it a misstep, or was it killed by online prejudiced reviews?

I think it played a part in ending Olympus's camera making days :-( . Every single user of m43 has at some time mentioned size and weight being a major factor . It was only ever going to appeal to a small niche within m43 users. As I say if the camera works for your use case at the current used price well worth nabbing one.

To put the used prices in perspective the Fuji X-PRO 3 also launched in 2019 it was £1699 here at launch. A good used one comes in at £1259 and excellent one at £1459

Loading…

www.mpb.com

 

[James Stirling]

According to the poll here 20 percent of the respondents on this forum say they either will get it or might in the first year.

That isn't bad considering this forum is a social space that probably skewed towards the amateur and enthusiast.

As that to the actual research Olympus has, and I think they are in a far more informed position than the majority of people here.

In retrospect this turned out to be one of the many missteps towards their downfall as they would exit the business within less than two years time. Don't get addicted to copium, folks. It claimed a large number in this thread.

Copium…

I looked it up

--
Jim Stirling:
"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason, is like administering medicine to the dead." - Thomas Paine
Feel free to tinker with any photos I post

 

[Ab Latchin]

According to the poll here 20 percent of the respondents on this forum say they either will get it or might in the first year.

That isn't bad considering this forum is a social space that probably skewed towards the amateur and enthusiast.

As that to the actual research Olympus has, and I think they are in a far more informed position than the majority of people here.

In retrospect this turned out to be one of the many missteps towards their downfall as they would exit the business within less than two years time. Don't get addicted to copium, folks. It claimed a large number in this thread.

Copium…

I looked it up

i think I know from the context doesn’t really bother me too much. Just took some really nice pictures of my son who bright home a bunch of meals from the boards here. Using the S6m2 with 70-200f4 when I went looking for a good zoom I wasn’t too excited by what was on offer like the 40-150 f2.8 or 50-200 2.8-4 for m43rds. hope you have been doing well!

 

[BudgetTraveller]

I think it played a part in ending Olympus's camera making days :-( . Every single user of m43 has at some time mentioned size and weight being a major factor . It was only ever going to appeal to a small niche within m43 users. As I say if the camera works for your use case at the current used price well worth nabbing one.

I still use the E-M1X to this day, even though I also shoot with a Z8 FF. It is a body that I use for extended shooting and I need to travel light and sit in Economy. And no, I do not fly First Class or Business Class like many wildlife photographers who fly around the world attending expensive wildlife workshops with paid award winning photographers.

But it was truly a niche camera at the time of launch, but was a revolutionary camera for its time with probably the world's first AI subjection detection, before subject detection was even considered a necessity. Today, it is a necessity, but back then, you are paying close to $3000 for its AI AF and HHHR (Handheld Hi-Res) plus the dual battery and the built-in grip, which I still considered today to be the most comfortable grip. The Nikon Z8 hurt my hand after 6hrs of shooting during my recent wildlife trip.

For a 1st Gen AI AF, it still works, but is no match against the OM-1 nor my Z8.

I do know that Olympus sold a lot of E-M1X, which is why you are seeing a lot of them today at dirt cheap prices. But for a time, it was a pretty decent price for wildlife photographers who could afford them.

But I think people do not know that the true audience for the E-M1X was bird and wildlife photographers. People who will use it with the 300mm IS Pro and the 150-400 Pro. With these 2 lenses, the 1X is an awesome combo and for the price then, it was not a bad price.

On my recent wildlife trip, I met a group of wildlife photographers who paid award winning photographers to go on such. Do you know how much they paid for those trips? Roughly $10,000 incld accommodation and on my Alaska trip last year, a few paid up to $30,000!! So what is $3000 for the E-M1X or now the Z8 or R5 mark II, when they can easily afford a $30,000 trip. That doesn't include airfare. And they fly, not coach or economy, but First Class or Business Class so they can bring in their 600mm f/4 or 400mm f/2.8 lenses in cabin. On the recent trip, many use the Canon R1 and R5, Nikon Z8 and Z9 and Sony A1 and A9 and I think one OM-1 Mark II with the 150-400 Pro.

So, no. The E-M1X didn't bring Olympus into bankruptcy, but some needed revenue. It was the full frame sensor and people with no money no object that decided that if I can afford a Canon R1 or R5 or Z9, I will buy 2 and have 1 with a 600mm f/4 and another with a 400mm f/2.8, because they can easily afford them.

The E-M1X came at the time where there were no viable mirrorless options, but today became obscure, because it had lost the sensor size race. Fuji at least still have the mystic of their color science and their X100 series cameras.

 

[Joe Lynch]

I think it played a part in ending Olympus's camera making days :-( . Every single user of m43 has at some time mentioned size and weight being a major factor . It was only ever going to appeal to a small niche within m43 users. As I say if the camera works for your use case at the current used price well worth nabbing one.

I haven't used my E-M1X since...yesterday. I can't explain it other than I love the grip and the dual batteries. So, I'm a member of that "small niche". It is my shop camera as well as a backup to an OM-1.1. I spent a lot of time with it on a 150-400 Pro lens, and while waiting for the OM-1. It was excellent on the Big White lens, and on the 300f4 before that. The 60 macro looks funny on it, however. I keep it covered in the shop.

Joe L