The point where lines intersect!

[Kim Letkeman]

jcmarfilph wrote:

Billx08 wrote:

jcmarfilph wrote:

. . .
Message tfrom MOD (Danielepaolo): Thank you for explaining your intentions. There is some content in your post that would only serve to infalme tensions. We are all aware of Joms preferences and to many they are justified.

Bill just can't accept the fact about inferiority of motorized zoom when it comes to handling in taking still photos (not video) which is the primary function of a camera.

No, that's not true in more ways than one. Manual zoom lenses are better for some things and worse for others. They're worse (as you're aware) for shooting videos, and some long zooms lenses are worse because they suffer from creep, changing their focal lengths if they're pointed up or down.

Wrong, your left hand is holding the lens barrel so you are giving the camera a steady support both for lens droop or creep (if there is any). You are providing better stabilization on top of the camera IS.

*sigh* ... zoom creep happens when the camera is hanging from your neck and you are walking. Some manual zooms creep, motorized zooms do not.

The fact that your hand is under the lens means nothing since you can hold a motorized zoom there as well. But no matter how hard you try, without attaching a gadget to the zoom ring, you will never get smooth zooming in video with a manual zoom.

They're better for getting to a specific focal length more quickly, but motorized zoom lenses have other advantages too. Some of them are optimized for shooting video, where they zoom smoothly and silently at up to several different speeds, where manual zoom lenses produce 'jerky' videos unless they're shot using a tripod.

Still camera is for still photos. 90% of the users of camera (even toyzoom ones) don't shoot video.

Luddite views do not an argument make. Check out the DiscoverMirrorless site for a more progressive view point.

It doesn't help that you've often completely overstated the case, trying to make it sound like the startup time, which is longer with a motorized zoom lens, is applied to every photo, when you know as well as I and others here that nobody turns off their camera and back on after each and every shot.

I am talking about shooting bird (not even far far away) when your toy is off. With HS30, 1 sec power ON + 1 sec twist = Voila! With motorized zoom, 1 sec power ON + 3-5 secs zoom = missed shot!

And again. That accounts for 1 shot. Which is usually a tiny percentage of the shots you take.

You may not use your cameras for shooting videos, but cameras have changed (they're now still/video cameras for the most part), and they're continuing to change. Witness the move to adding wi-fi, and several cameras now are camera/video/phone devices. These will soon have a lot of photo apps for them, just like the iPhones and Android phones that have built-in cameras.

Connectivity has nothing to do with manual or motorized zoom.

The point was that cameras are evolving. It is obvious that a number of photographers are not.

A serious photographer knows the limitation of a phones with camera. They are there for snapshots not for professional work. Only a stupid photographer will invest on plastic filters, iPhone adapter for lenses etc. etc.

There are professionals shooting iPhones nowadays, and you would do very well to study why they get better images with "toys" than you do with fairly expensive bridge cameras.

I'm being very serious here. Your tendency towards Luddite views pushed hard and insultingly wins no arguments. You really need to consider having a more open mind about photography and cameras.

You don't want to look like an old geezer that insists "my camera only shoots stills, and I wish it used film and not memory cards." This isn't just your old dpreview.com any more. In case you somehow missed it, check out connect.dpreview.com even if you don't care much for this new direction that photography is taking, because whether you or I like it or not, it's going to eventually overtake us.

Which one? connect.apple.dpreview.com ?

That's right ... keep poking the bear. It will keep you busy while the rest of us move forward in time ...

 

[Kim Letkeman]

Danielepaolo wrote:

jcmarfilph wrote:
Still camera is for still photos. 90% of the users of camera (even toyzoom ones) don't shoot video.

Joms. Where did you get 90% from? I see many people shoot video although I tend to be at my kids friends parties where most people with a camera are also shooting video.

In fact, hybrid shooting accounts for more than a little professional photographer revenue these days according to discover mirrorless. It would appear that stills are not selling like they used to because people are figuring out how much more nuance a video can convey.

 

[Kim Letkeman]

jcmarfilph wrote:

I'd like to see phone with real camera like Galaxy Camera with optical zoom not just wannabe iPhones

You would do us all a great service if you could resist the urge to constantly denigrate everything you do not believe in with terms like "toy" and "wannabe" ... it is incredibly grating.

And I will resist the urge to describe why it is grating, but it has a lot to do with credibility as established by the quality of arguments and photographic output.

Until then, I will LOL at those saying my phone can do serious photography now.

You can LOL all you want ... there are professionals doing work with iPhones that stomps yours every day of the week .... seriously.

 

[Kim Letkeman]

jcmarfilph wrote:

100+ comments, 25+ faves will take your photo to Top 500 daily. Some of my photos from HS10 are still there. If you are popular, people will like your photo regardless if it is horrible.

Huh?

I repeat, huh?

 

[Kim Letkeman]

jcmarfilph wrote:





-=[ Joms ]=-

The RAW image is well over saturated. The sky looks completely unrealistic.

Both images suffer from a spectacular number of issues ... grain and other artifacts, serious edge degradation, CA, and so on.

Why shoot at 1/800s at full wide angle at f/7 when you could have shot at f/4 and 100iso and 1/500s or so? Diffraction is not your friend ... fast shutter is not needed at full wide with stabilization ... and 400 ISO is a disaster in sunlight on that sensor.

--

http://kimletkeman.blogspot.com

 

[JJJRRR768]

Midwest wrote:

I thought this was a kinda nifty image but it needed the horizon leveled and I thought it might be neat if it was tone-mapped. I hope you don't mind.

I did not see the original, it seems to not be there but this looks great. I found it, this one certainly looks better to my eye...

--
Do people really spend $700 on a camera so they can take a picture of a squirrel or a duck?

 

[Midwest]

Thanks Joel. I thought the original was interesting but needed just a little TLC.

 

[Midwest]

Billx08 wrote:

Midwest wrote:

Gary N W wrote:

In my opinion I think the way you shot the original images looked just fine and interesting as it was posted.

Yes, who wants a photo that's not crooked.

Richard M. ("I'm not a crook") Nixon, for one.

Compared to today's pol's he was a saint.

 

[Eagles48]

Kim Letkeman wrote:

jcmarfilph wrote:

100+ comments, 25+ faves will take your photo to Top 500 daily. Some of my photos from HS10 are still there. If you are popular, people will like your photo regardless if it is horrible.

Huh?

I repeat, huh?

 

[Billx08]

Midwest wrote:

Billx08 wrote:

Midwest wrote:

Gary N W wrote:

In my opinion I think the way you shot the original images looked just fine and interesting as it was posted.

Yes, who wants a photo that's not crooked.

Richard M. ("I'm not a crook") Nixon, for one.

Compared to today's pol's he was a saint.

True. I caught Bruce Bartlett and Yves Smith (blog pen name of Susan Webber) the other day on Moyers & Company. Bartlett has solid conservative credentials and Smith is a financial expert.

Bruce Reeves Bartlett (b. October 11, 1951, in Ann Arbor, Michigan) is an American historian whose area of expertise is supply-side economics. He served as a domestic policy adviser to President Ronald Reagan and as a Treasury official under President George H. W. Bush.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Bartlett


`

Yves Smith’s site, Naked Capitalism, is a highly-ranked and admired blog focusing on the economy and finance.

With over 25 years of experience in finance, Smith has developed investment banking strategy for McKinsey & Company, played a role in acquisitions and leveraged buyouts at Goldman Sachs, and established a New York-based mergers and acquisition department for Sumitomo Bank. More recently, Smith founded Aurora Advisors, Inc., a New York-based management consultant firm.

http://billmoyers.com/guest/yves-smith/


`

Quotes from the show :

`

BRUCE BARTLETT: And I think one reason for this is the decline of labor unions. It used to be that when the union movement was much bigger and more powerful, and especially when private sector workers dominated the union movement, the AFL-CIO sort of looked out for the working class. They looked out for all workers, not just union workers. They understood that a healthy working class having lots of jobs was ultimately to the benefit of their members. And I think the decline in power of the unions and now and the fact that public sector unions now dominate the AFL-CIO is a key reason for that. The other thing is kind of a dirty secret, which you may not agree with is that fundamentally Barack Obama's pretty conservative. He really is. He's an Eisenhower conservative. He's not a liberal. I mean, he's-- and I think that's one of the problems with the Democratic Party is they're looking for leadership to a guy on an issue like why aren't we creating jobs? Why isn't there more aggregate demand in the economy? And it's because their guy doesn't really want it.

YVES SMITH: I agree 100 percent. I mean, Obama has been-- I'm always shocked when people call Obama a socialist, because he's in fact, I think you might be doing a disservice to Eisenhower. And even, you know, Nixon is to the left of Obama on many, on most social issues. I mean, Nixon proposed a negative income tax, which everybody forgets about. And the other point is that this is reflected broadly in the Democratic Party, at least in the sort of elite level of Democratic Party. I mean, you know, I've seen people like, for example, Gene Sperling speak at conferences.

http://billmoyers.com/segment/bruce-bartlett-and-yves-smith-on-overhyping-the-fiscal-cliff/

 

[jcmarfilph]

Kim Letkeman wrote:

jcmarfilph wrote:

100+ comments, 25+ faves will take your photo to Top 500 daily. Some of my photos from HS10 are still there. If you are popular, people will like your photo regardless if it is horrible.

Huh?

I repeat, huh?

 

[Midwest]

Interesting commentary. People also forget that Nixon took us off the gold standard, he was behind OSHA, the EPA and numerous other things that don't seem very conservative.

What I found most revealing about him personally was his good-bye address to the members of the White House staff. No notes, no teleprompter, from the heart, a beautiful and moving address.

 

[Kim Letkeman]

jcmarfilph wrote:

Kim Letkeman wrote:

jcmarfilph wrote:

100+ comments, 25+ faves will take your photo to Top 500 daily. Some of my photos from HS10 are still there. If you are popular, people will like your photo regardless if it is horrible.

Huh?

I repeat, huh?

 

[jcmarfilph]

Kim Letkeman wrote:

jcmarfilph wrote:

Kim Letkeman wrote:

jcmarfilph wrote:

100+ comments, 25+ faves will take your photo to Top 500 daily. Some of my photos from HS10 are still there. If you are popular, people will like your photo regardless if it is horrible.

Huh?

I repeat, huh?

 

[Kim Letkeman]

jcmarfilph wrote:

Kim Letkeman wrote:

jcmarfilph wrote:

Kim Letkeman wrote:

jcmarfilph wrote:

100+ comments, 25+ faves will take your photo to Top 500 daily. Some of my photos from HS10 are still there. If you are popular, people will like your photo regardless if it is horrible.

Huh?

I repeat, huh?

 

[Danielepaolo]

jcmarfilph wrote:
Still camera is for still photos. 90% of the users of camera (even toyzoom ones) don't shoot video.

Joms,

I stumbled across this poll by accident. conducted here at DPR regarding video. It suggests 38% of owners have a DSLR can not shoot video and a low 19% of users never shoot video. 21% of people with DSLR shoot video once per month which is equivalent to 33% of those users with a camera that can shoot video.

http://forums.dpreview.com/polls/poll/1767356180

Finished: Dec 4, 2010, Votes: 26644
My DSLR can't shoot video 37.7%(10053 votes)

Rarely 22.3%(5934 votes)

Never (even though my camera has the feature) 19.3%(5131 votes)

Sometimes (more than once a month) 11.5%(3074 votes)

Very often (more than once a week) 7.1%(1890 votes)

All the time (daily) 2.1% (562 votes)

 

[Kim Letkeman]

... this has been obvious for a long time ... but thanks for finding that poll, it is even more prevalent than I would have assumed.

 

[Billx08]

Danielepaolo wrote:

jcmarfilph wrote:
Still camera is for still photos. 90% of the users of camera (even toyzoom ones) don't shoot video.

Joms,

I stumbled across this poll by accident. conducted here at DPR regarding video. It suggests 38% of owners have a DSLR can not shoot video and a low 19% of users never shoot video. 21% of people with DSLR shoot video once per month which is equivalent to 33% of those users with a camera that can shoot video.

http://forums.dpreview.com/polls/poll/1767356180
Finished: Dec 4, 2010, Votes: 26644

My DSLR can't shoot video 37.7%(10053 votes)

Rarely 22.3%(5934 votes)

Never (even though my camera has the feature) 19.3%(5131 votes)

Sometimes (more than once a month) 11.5%(3074 votes)

Very often (more than once a week) 7.1%(1890 votes)

All the time (daily) 2.1% (562 votes)
Interesting. So it appears that this 90% figure was one of joms's more accurate estimates. On a more serious note, this thread is displaying a bug that I've seen before and I wonder if anyone else is seeing it. When some threads have new replies added to them, the forum pages sometimes stop indicating in the leftmost column that there are any new, unread replies. It seems that when this happens, it has been with threads that been pruned by moderators. This suggests that DPR's web team needs to break out their debuggers.

 

[jcmarfilph]

Danielepaolo wrote:

jcmarfilph wrote:
Still camera is for still photos. 90% of the users of camera (even toyzoom ones) don't shoot video.

Joms,

I stumbled across this poll by accident. conducted here at DPR regarding video. It suggests 38% of owners have a DSLR can not shoot video and a low 19% of users never shoot video. 21% of people with DSLR shoot video once per month which is equivalent to 33% of those users with a camera that can shoot video.

http://forums.dpreview.com/polls/poll/1767356180
Finished: Dec 4, 2010, Votes: 26644

My DSLR can't shoot video 37.7%(10053 votes)

Rarely 22.3%(5934 votes)

Never (even though my camera has the feature) 19.3%(5131 votes)

Sometimes (more than once a month) 11.5%(3074 votes)

Very often (more than once a week) 7.1%(1890 votes)

All the time (daily) 2.1% (562 votes)

 

[Danielepaolo]

jcmarfilph wrote:

Good thing you've found it. So now does video matters to you or to everyone?

To me it matters because I don't want to carry a camera and a video camera when I go to functions. I was shooting video on Thursday night.

Manual zoom is far usable than video function and that is keeping me from switching to a sloooooow motorized superzoom.

I have a preference for manual zoom. I do feel that you overstate the issue though but it wouldn't be the first thing we differ on. One issue at a time.

Cheers