The DSLR doesn't die, because it actually works!

[Wu Jiaqiu]

so you are in fact carrying them......

Sure, but less than heavy DSLR.

depends on the camera model as you know some are bigger and heavier than others, come on mate don't get all obtuse on me

the problem with extra batteries is charging them, you either need a power bank, or a wall outlet, i did 2 day event in Switzerland with mirrorless in 2014, needed 3 or 4 batteries, got me through just one single day

So, you kept shooting continually whole day of 9-12 hours, non-stop.

no not non stop, but constantly throughout the day, you might have had 5 minutes in between aircraft and of course you don't take constant pictures just because the plane is in the air...but...... the camera is on and your watching then using C-AF to track the subject to get the shots you think you want, kick off 9am, hour off for lunch and end of day 5pm...you take a lot of shots and your camera is constantly ready

your turn

 

[Carol T]

Glad you cleared that up, now I will never have to see another of these threads. (If only)

 

[stevo23]

If it comes down to that, my A7 won for weight and convenience over my D600 even with its extra batteries. The smaller size and weight of the A7 and the ability to adapt smaller and lighter lenses allowed that advantage. Now that A7 has increased battery life, that's not as much of a gap.

I've used both on my 6 night backcountry trips. The greater weight of D600 + lenses + two batteries was significant compared to A7 + lenses + four batteries.

D600 took until day five to need a battery change (impressive), so carrying two was exactly right. A7 needed one every 1.5 to 2 days depending on shooting conditions and I had to be conservative.

Today even my sleeping bag, mattress and tent weights in total 1.3kg, that is nothing compared to ~12kg that was high end few decades ago.

What trio do you have that only weighs 1.3kg? I want this.

 

[threw the lens]

Some have tried to write about lag on mirrorless being simply the time it takes for the image to be projected through the EVF.

That does not even begin to encompass all the lag to taking a photo. I didn't just use the shutter button and get the contents of the viewfinder dumped to the memory card... I wish it was, because it could have made my sports shooting on mirrorless so much more responsive.

I don't believe you get the full resolution of the sensor fed constantly through that EVF on an average mirrorless in the way some are assuming. A camera that was shifting full sensor data at the high speed you'd want in a refresh rate was not at all economical at doing it- e.g. Olympus 60fps 'pro capture' - this would flood the buffer with full resolution 60fps images, and potentially your card. More normal on the mirrorless I tried was the viewfinder freezing for a fraction of a second in a high speed drive mode and there being much more lag than I was expecting between the shutter press and the photo in fact taken. There must be something newer with more processors in it that does better, but my main question is: how many MP of data is the sensor reading for the purposes of the EVF in a typical mirrorless? Does anyone know if the sensors read more than a pixel binning for the EVF, that is if your EVF is 4MP and your sensor is 16MP, binning 2x2 squares for each EVF pixel or whatever?

 

[threw the lens]

If it comes down to that, my A7 won for weight and convenience over my D600 even with its extra batteries. The smaller size and weight of the A7 and the ability to adapt smaller and lighter lenses allowed that advantage. Now that A7 has increased battery life, that's not as much of a gap.

I've used both on my 6 night backcountry trips. The greater weight of D600 + lenses + two batteries was significant compared to A7 + lenses + four batteries.

D600 took until day five to need a battery change (impressive), so carrying two was exactly right. A7 needed one every 1.5 to 2 days depending on shooting conditions and I had to be conservative.

Today even my sleeping bag, mattress and tent weights in total 1.3kg, that is nothing compared to ~12kg that was high end few decades ago.

What trio do you have that only weighs 1.3kg? I want this.

I think you'd have to sleep on a bed of bubble wrap in a tent of polythene to attain 1.3Kg,

 

[tbcass]

that's a long time to be shooting 15, 20, 30 and 60 fps....you must have millions and millions of pictures

Who said I've been shooting bursts that fast since the 60s? Cameras that fast, aside from extremely fast film cameras designed specifically for the purpose, are a product of the digital age. I used my experience to point out that I don't use burst shooting to compensate for a lack of skill as some, you maybe, seem to suggest. I developed timing skills because I had to for single frame shooting.

--
Tom

 

[chlamchowder]

To each his own. I would rather wait until I uploaded to the computer and delete there rather than waste time on the camera when I could be taking more photos. Back in the day of low capacity cards I can see where it would have been useful but not so much today.

That it is, if you don't have problem with storage space (card or computer) and you don't care sitting front of the computer deleting files....

I have tons of unused storage space on cards and computer.

Storage space wasn't a problem for me either, but if you're shooting sports and getting paid for it, you're expected to send pictures out at halftime. You're not expected to miss any key play, so you shoot bursts of every play. If you drop them all onto your computer, that takes time even with a fast card reader. Then you have to go through pictures, pick a few, caption them, and send them. If you only have to go through good frames, it's so much easier and faster.

Halftime is supposed to be 15 min for basketball, but you usually get less than that because it takes time for them to let you move and get into the press room. Then if I get out early, I get to snap pics of the halftime performance for myself

So you don't ever check what did you capture?

Not very often.

You never have time to go quickly the sequence after the action?

Yes but I'd much rather do it on a computer.

At the very beginning, I did that until I saw what other people were doing, and went like "oh hey, that's a much better way of doing it"

As example in the sports like height jumping, javelin throwing etc, you have lots of time between athletes. So you can just press playback and rotate dial to go though the previous sequence and press REC to Mark all photos you want to keep, press AEL to lock all marked photos and return to shooting with half press of shutter release button, and when you want, hit "delete all" in menu when needed?

Geez I wish I had a chance to photograph those sports. Sounds like tons of fun.

 

[chlamchowder]

Apparently that's what the 'protect image' thing does. You use that to mark the images you want to keep, then run delete all.

I used to be like "why would I ever use this protect image button" until I saw people using it.

That has amazed me in last 20 years that why doesn't people use it, but people don't either read manuals or they don't comprehend all what they read in manuals.

I never had a manual lol. I just saw people shooting for other newspapers use it, a lot. But yeah a lot of people use it.....if you just count people covering events.

It was such amazing feature when I read D2x manual first time before taking it in use, after using only film. Like a mind blowing feature that you can shoot 8 fps (crop mode) and then just lock wanted images and run "Delete All" to clear all unwanted.

And that is part of workflow these days. You can use fastest sequence speed and then just lock the frames you want and after card is full or before import, run "delete all".

This was easy on Canon because Canon had so amazingly fast playback speed and large rear dial to quickly go through all frames and lock them.

Sometimes I wonder what it'd be like if I built a Canon system instead of Nikon. Back at that time, it was 6D vs D600 and used D3s vs used 1D IV. Nikon also had much better mount compatibility and newspaper pool equipment was Nikon.

But right now Canon has some pretty cool things in their latest cameras and the AF systems in the 6D II and 5D IV look much better.

Another thing that many doesn't use is the voice dictation feature, with Canon behind a direct button, so you press button and talk the information of photo like who is person in photo or their address etc. And then you can later name people in photos or send copy to them.

I saw other photogs using that. I tried it but it didn't work for me. I guess a few factors contributed:

• Only my D3s had voice memos. My D600 didn't. I ran both in a two-body setup, so relying on something only one camera had would be awkward.
• Image timestamps and surrounding images is enough to let me figure out what happened.
• Players have very visible numbers on their jerseys so it's easy to look them up.
• I hate the sound of my own voice.

 

[chlamchowder]

got my popcorn ready for this one, i am expecting 60fps to be mentioned more than once

60fps could be useful. But it end-loads a lot on the user in culling rather than picking the moment. Are we to shoot in pairs now, a shooter and a culler?

Mirrorless = shoot and cull

DSLR = spray and pray

Pick your poison

Apparently that's what the 'protect image' thing does. You use that to mark the images you want to keep, then run delete all.

I used to be like "why would I ever use this protect image button" until I saw people using it.

That has amazed me in last 20 years that why doesn't people use it, but people don't either read manuals or they don't comprehend all what they read in manuals.

It was such amazing feature when I read D2x manual first time before taking it in use, after using only film. Like a mind blowing feature that you can shoot 8 fps (crop mode) and then just lock wanted images and run "Delete All" to clear all unwanted.

And that is part of workflow these days. You can use fastest sequence speed and then just lock the frames you want and after card is full or before import, run "delete all".

This was easy on Canon because Canon had so amazingly fast playback speed and large rear dial to quickly go through all frames and lock them.

Another thing that many doesn't use is the voice dictation feature, with Canon behind a direct button, so you press button and talk the information of photo like who is person in photo or their address etc. And then you can later name people in photos or send copy to them.

What is the sequence of the equivalent in A7? I removed the delete confirmation and still manually do one by one. I also find annoying it resets to full view upon delete (zoom, wait, wait, wheel clockwise, up, up, left, wheel clock wise, up, left, left, wheel clockwise, delete, wait; repeat ad nauseam)

Seems like you'd have to go into the menu. There's a protect option on page 2 of the playback menu, at https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sony-alpha-a7/7.

But from

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1721633264547965

it unfortunately doesn't look like a workable solution on the Sony (too many button presses, too much time). You're probably better off with your current workflow.

 

[chlamchowder]

i do wonder how the pros get those pictures of him...they must be lucky....all the time

So you really think that all of them never predict any moment, by learning how different athletes perform and likely do, and never use a high frame rate to help increase the moment of capture as they know their reaction times are no where near capable take the moment?

Do you know why the high frame rates has been the key feature in professional sports and wildlife cameras in the last 50 years? Just because they have so amazing skills that they can capture any moment with single frame all the time?

pue luck isn't it, how do they get those shots?

........

........

.........

..

.......

i am not saying that any of these new cameras with hi fps e.t.c cannot help, but knowing your subject and years of experience makes a huge difference

This. If you start photographing an unfamiliar sport and expect setting 'CH' to save you, it won't. You're screwed because you'll lose the perfect shot in the time it takes for you to swing the camera around.

Now if you can already do a decent job in single shot mode because you know the sport, can anticipate who's going to make a nice play, and know the capabilities and limitations of your gear, then shooting bursts will get you more choices. Like, do I want the ball in this position, just as the player's getting ready to hit it? Do I want to take the frame that's the moment of impact? And so on.

 

[tbcass]

Storage space wasn't a problem for me either, but if you're shooting sports and getting paid for it, you're expected to send pictures out at halftime. You're not expected to miss any key play, so you shoot bursts of every play. If you drop them all onto your computer, that takes time even with a fast card reader. Then you have to go through pictures, pick a few, caption them, and send them. If you only have to go through good frames, it's so much easier and faster.

Halftime is supposed to be 15 min for basketball, but you usually get less than that because it takes time for them to let you move and get into the press room. Then if I get out early, I get to snap pics of the halftime performance for myself

In your case deleting on the camera works.

 

[n3eg]

Glad you cleared that up, now I will never have to see another of these threads. (If only)

Just wait. We had RAW vs. JPG, now DSLR vs. Mirrorless - in your future, it will be Quantum vs. Holographic.

 

[MILC man]

Seems like you'd have to go into the menu. There's a protect option on page 2 of the playback menu, at https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sony-alpha-a7/7.

But from

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1721633264547965

it unfortunately doesn't look like a workable solution on the Sony (too many button presses, too much time). You're probably better off with your current workflow.

no, you posted an a9 video, and the a9 protect function does not work like that anymore:

"Protect function / Protect
The protect function that protects recorded images against accidental erasure can now be used quickly on the playback screen by using a custom key (assigned to the C3 button in the default settings). Rating and Protect on the playback screen are useful for selection work during idle time such as at shooting sites or while travelling."

https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/e-mount-body-ilce-9-series/ilce-9/articles/00220555

 

[MILC man]

To each his own. I would rather wait until I uploaded to the computer and delete there rather than waste time on the camera when I could be taking more photos. Back in the day of low capacity cards I can see where it would have been useful but not so much today.

That it is, if you don't have problem with storage space (card or computer) and you don't care sitting front of the computer deleting files....

I have tons of unused storage space on cards and computer.

Storage space wasn't a problem for me either, but if you're shooting sports and getting paid for it, you're expected to send pictures out at halftime.

the faster way to do it is to upload immediately to the media center with wifi, as you shoot, instead of waiting for halftime, or upload immediately to a smartphone, where you can both add captions and do basic edits on the photo, then upload from there... see this old a9 video from 2017:

the a9 comes with wifi and an ethernet port; you have pay extra to get wifi with the d5 and the 1dxmk2, and it's not cheap.

the a7riv added 5ghz wifi capability.

 

[chlamchowder]

To each his own. I would rather wait until I uploaded to the computer and delete there rather than waste time on the camera when I could be taking more photos. Back in the day of low capacity cards I can see where it would have been useful but not so much today.

That it is, if you don't have problem with storage space (card or computer) and you don't care sitting front of the computer deleting files....

I have tons of unused storage space on cards and computer.

Storage space wasn't a problem for me either, but if you're shooting sports and getting paid for it, you're expected to send pictures out at halftime.

the faster way to do it is to upload immediately to the media center with wifi, as you shoot, instead of waiting for halftime, or upload immediately to a smartphone, where you can both add captions and do basic edits on the photo, then upload from there... see this old a9 video from 2017:

the a9 comes with wifi and an ethernet port; you have pay extra to get wifi with the d5 and the 1dxmk2, and it's not cheap.

the a7riv added 5ghz wifi capability.

The problem is, you needed to caption for the editors. Going though pictures on a larger laptop screen is also a nice advantage. Typing captions on a phone and trying to edit on the small phone screen is something I'd rather not do (otherwise I'd use the in-camera raw development thing).

As for wifi, the place I shot at had restrictions disallowing people from creating their own wifi networks, because that'd create congestion with the university's wifi networks. Even if I could get the picture onto my phone through some means, wifi in a stadium isn't exactly reliable outside the press box, so I'd have to transmit images using cell data that I'm paying for and have a quota on.

 

[chlamchowder]

Seems like you'd have to go into the menu. There's a protect option on page 2 of the playback menu, at https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sony-alpha-a7/7.

But from

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1721633264547965

it unfortunately doesn't look like a workable solution on the Sony (too many button presses, too much time). You're probably better off with your current workflow.

no, you posted an a9 video, and the a9 protect function does not work like that anymore:

"Protect function / Protect
The protect function that protects recorded images against accidental erasure can now be used quickly on the playback screen by using a custom key (assigned to the C3 button in the default settings). Rating and Protect on the playback screen are useful for selection work during idle time such as at shooting sites or while travelling."

https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/e-mount-body-ilce-9-series/ilce-9/articles/00220555

The original question was about the A7. I assumed the A7 and A9 worked in the same way, because companies usually have a lot of firmware shared across different models.

Can a button be assigned to protect with one key press on the A7?

 

[MILC man]

To each his own. I would rather wait until I uploaded to the computer and delete there rather than waste time on the camera when I could be taking more photos. Back in the day of low capacity cards I can see where it would have been useful but not so much today.

That it is, if you don't have problem with storage space (card or computer) and you don't care sitting front of the computer deleting files....

I have tons of unused storage space on cards and computer.

Storage space wasn't a problem for me either, but if you're shooting sports and getting paid for it, you're expected to send pictures out at halftime.

the faster way to do it is to upload immediately to the media center with wifi, as you shoot, instead of waiting for halftime, or upload immediately to a smartphone, where you can both add captions and do basic edits on the photo, then upload from there... see this old a9 video from 2017:

the a9 comes with wifi and an ethernet port; you have pay extra to get wifi with the d5 and the 1dxmk2, and it's not cheap.

the a7riv added 5ghz wifi capability.

The problem is, you needed to caption for the editors.

already addressed that in my post.

Going though pictures on a larger laptop screen is also a nice advantage. Typing captions on a phone and trying to edit on the small phone screen is something I'd rather not do (otherwise I'd use the in-camera raw development thing).

disagree, because you can't calibrate the lcd rear screen on a camera.

smartphone screens are better than lcd rear screens on phones, and there are dedicated smartphone apps for adjusting the screen... can't do that with a camera lcd.

yes a laptop is better, but then a pc monitor is much better than a laptop screen, etc.

As for wifi, the place I shot at had restrictions disallowing people from creating their own wifi networks,

media centers in sports facilities are not generally like that, it's coordinated with the facility ahead of time, or you'd be uploading to the existing wifi network belonging to the media coordinator, so that they can do the edits and uploads.

because that'd create congestion with the university's wifi networks.

no, it doesn't... and I expressly mentioned the 5ghz capability on the a7riv.

Even if I could get the picture onto my phone through some means,

that's probably a user problem, with learning new functionality.

wifi in a stadium isn't exactly reliable outside the press box, so I'd have to transmit images using cell data that I'm paying for and have a quota on.

that's not a camera issue.

 

[Ed Rizk]

I haven’t read the whole thread, so I apologize if this is redundant.

I just got my first mirrorless camera. There is a lot to like about it.

The OP pointed out the specialties where the DSLR is superior, as well as the better shooting experience.

I prefer the OVF on a nice day. The EVF is like a night vision scope with perfect color at night. It will also save your eye at sunrise and sunset. It also gives you a heads up to expose problems in changing light.

I want to keep one of each.

I think both will continue to exist as long as photography exists.

 

[LoneTree1]

Legislation is an interesting thing to bring up. Even things that worked and worked well (DDT, which banning cost about 50 million lives from malaria but saved a few bird eggs) get banned by certain people and groups. Leaded solder is another product that worked very well but was banned. DSLR's could well see their time limited in political or other venues if people decide to "ban" them based on the clatter they create.

 

[chlamchowder]

Going though pictures on a larger laptop screen is also a nice advantage. Typing captions on a phone and trying to edit on the small phone screen is something I'd rather not do (otherwise I'd use the in-camera raw development thing).

disagree, because you can't calibrate the lcd rear screen on a camera.

smartphone screens are better than lcd rear screens on phones, and there are dedicated smartphone apps for adjusting the screen... can't do that with a camera lcd.

yes a laptop is better, but then a pc monitor is much better than a laptop screen, etc.

And a laptop screen is the best you can get into a press room. Try fitting a monitor into a backpack. Also, don't tunnel vision on color calibration. It's sort of important, but screen size makes a massive usability difference.

As for wifi, the place I shot at had restrictions disallowing people from creating their own wifi networks,

media centers in sports facilities are not generally like that, it's coordinated with the facility ahead of time, or you'd be uploading to the existing wifi network belonging to the media coordinator, so that they can do the edits and uploads.

That hasn't been my experience. You have more than several newspapers with photogs there. The event staff give you a pass, show you the press room, give you wifi access, and that's it. Their attention is on keeping the event running smoothly, not catering to you. You or your newspaper editor (or anyone else's editor) don't get to deploy wifi hotspots.

"uploading to the existing wifi network" - so I specifically work in networking now. And my comfort level with having a camera connected to a public network....let's just say I'd rather see someone else do it and then prank them. And using wifi sounds awesome until you connect to the wifi at some venue and it's hot garbage.

because that'd create congestion with the university's wifi networks.

no, it doesn't... and I expressly mentioned the 5ghz capability on the a7riv.

The university has networks on both 2.4 and 5 GHz.

Even if I could get the picture onto my phone through some means,

that's probably a user problem, with learning new functionality.

company: "it's a user problem"

company later: *poof*

wifi in a stadium isn't exactly reliable outside the press box, so I'd have to transmit images using cell data that I'm paying for and have a quota on.

that's not a camera issue.

Yeah. And "works as designed and is disconnected from reality" is something I've learned to avoid as a software engineer. The reality is cell data is still limited and expensive, and your employer is likely not paying for it. Not to mention the cell network is probably worthless at a big enough venue because you're fighting with 5000 other people's cell phones.

Not to say wifi isn't useful. It'd be fun to go on a trip, use camera wifi to move images to my cell phone, and share a few with friends (particularly if I find a good wifi hotspot). I just wouldn't use it when covering an event.

And if I really wanted built in wifi, I'd get two Nikon D750s for less than the cost of one A9 or A7r IV. $3500 for that, are they insane?