The Camera Points Both Ways

[Dennis]

Norman,

Your "challenges" are wonderful tools and a great benefit to us !

I'm not sure that this "theme" or idea of mine falls into the category of visual areas that matter most, but an idea that I keep exploring (and one that helps keep me grounded) is the idea of "familiarity" in nature photography.

I use the work familiarity because I first started exploring this notion thanks to a Galen Rowell article on the topic. I don't know what word I would have used, but it fits.

Back in May, I spent a week in Grand Tetons & Yellowstone Nat'l Parks. I photographed mountains and lakes and waterfalls that dwarf anything we have locally; bison, coyotes, bears (both black and grizzly), beavers, elk, mule deer, moose, squirrels, osprey, eagles ... it was an amazing trip (spring time is apparently good for wildlife out there !) And I got some good pictures. Even some pictures I would hang on my wall because I love the subjects so much.

But if I were to categorize my images, many of the picures from this trip would qualify as "good" images, but none of them would fall into the category of "fine art" (keep in mind, if I categorized ANY of my images as "fine art", it's in the eye of the beholder - me Why ? Because while I photographed with a degree of intent and whatever knowledge and skill I have (not to mention good equipment), I was in the mode of making the most out of opportunities presented to me ... mostly out of luck. We had done some reading ahead of time, and that researched helped us locate some wildlife ...

But many of the shots were "grab" shots. Black bear and cubs at the bottom of a ravine. There's a mob of people above gawking at them (including Leonard Lee Rue dressed in Khakis and toting a video camera !) and a park ranger making sure nobody gets to close. There are basically no choices available to me as far as composition goes ... I try to find a place between other people where I can see the bears through the trees, then it's up to me to maximize that opportunity by getting the sharpest shot I can with my gear, and shooting at the moment I want to capture.

Landscapes ... there are viewing points that provide stunning vistas. While I'm there shooting a waterfall, about 20 other people take the same shot. Most of them shoot hand held; one or two others with a tripod. One guy has an old 4x5 camera. The weather & lighting are pretty nice. I see an osprey flying about so I'm patient and I actually capture the osprey flying right in front of the waterfall.

In the end, there have been 100,000 pictures (maybe many more) of that waterfall taken, and probably 10,000 better than mine. Bears ? Forget it ... any calendar company with $150 can choose from thousands of better bear pictures.

I don't regret my trip for a second - it was phenomenal and I love my pictures.

But my "fine art" pictures are of things that I know well and have the opportunity to photograph with much more intent. I can take my time; I can explore them; I can revisit them when the light is different or when the seasons are different. My Yellowstone pictures impress a lot of people because I simply don't know many photographers - most of my friends & relatives are not photographers at all. But I've got a bluebird picture taken 10 minutes from the house that wows them ! "Bug pictures" taken in the back yard - bumble bees settling in for the night in the base of a sun flower. I photographed the famous barns on Mormon Row in front of Grand Teton at sunrise using Velvia and the pictures came out pretty awesome. There are probably 100,000 shots of the same barns at sunrise taken on larger film under better lighting conditions that blow mine away. But I photographed a local farm from across a valley with a 400mm lens at 4:00 am and got a picture that stunned everyone attending a workshop I took ...

So whenever I get the itch to photograph wildlife or landscapes that I can't find locally (we have bears & coyotes, but photographing them locally is a real challenge) I just remind myself that my results won't compare with what I can do with what I know.

The other aspect of familiarity has to do with the subject matter for me. While I can appreciate good photography no matter (well, almost) the subject, and I would even love to photograph in places that are visually a world apart from New England, I'd still rather hang a photo of a barn or a maple tree or a babbling brook on my wall than safari photos of lions or images of bamboo forests. It's what I know and love. The Yellowstone area is somewhat similar to New England - everything's bigger and varieties of plants are different, but it's not too different ... the Great Smoky Mountains was "familiar" enough for me to be comfortable photographing there, and I can't wait to get to Alaska one day (hopefully to photograph grizzlies). But put me in the Florida Everglades or Red Rock country and I'm definitely out of my element ! I think I would enjoy trying to capture images in a strange landscape, and I think if I would simply "abstract" what I see I could do a fair job. But I don't think I would appreciate what I saw or the images I would capture nearly as much as images of the outdoors that I know & love.

OK, that's enough ... I'll probably have to split this post as it is !

• Dennis

 

[Dennis]

Your pictures are amazing! To me it's kind of like art with a
technology behind it. That is to say, any ass can take a picture,
(technology), however, to utilize the technology of a camera to
make artwork is something not any ass can do.

This reminds me of one of the lamest arguments used by the "anti-digital" croud ... that people who "don't know how to take a picture" are going to take lousy pictures, then magically "fix them up" in Photoshop ... if you can make art in Photoshop ... whether from a great photographic image, a lousy photographic image, or starting with no image at all, you're an artist.

Last time I looked, Photoshop didn't have a "magic button" that would allow someone who knows nothing about photography to change the artists point of view, angle of view, depth of field, focus point, shutter selection, and alter the ambient lighting to "make art" from snapshots

• Dennis

 

[Erichatch]

Norm, thanks for sharing both the images and the aethetic yo'ure using in creating them. John Ruskin wrote in Modern Painters about the impossibility, as he stated it, of simulaneously portraying water as both surface and depth. It seems to me you've exploited the surface quality of the water to set off the solidity of the above-water components of the images. The fragile translucency of the surface certainly emphasizes the contrasting mass of the other objects.

I've experimented in this arena a little bit, certainly with nothing like your success. Congratulations on wonderful pictures, and, more important perhaps, on such a helpful explanation of what you were after. Thank you.

The Flow and forming process in the natural world holds for me an
abundance of visual explorations. My interest is more than the
objects themselves, and is in context of the nature of change. To
further my understandings I often return seasonally to places I
have been before for new insights. I am intent on getting past
generalized scenes, to explore more specific interests in greater
depth.

These three recent images from the larger ongoing theme of: The
Nature Of Change. This series: Water,Rock,Leaves. My attention goes
to setting up the shot, to the visual structure, the visual
components of the image. I proceed by means of recognizing the
important visual elements, I want in the shot-and what is the
expressed relationship of these elements.

The tendency of the snapshot approach is to focus in on the
subject, at the expense of the rest of the visual elements within
the rectangle. In painting this area of dynamic interplay is
referred to as the figure ground relationship. It holds an equally
important place for me in photography, as it does in painting.

My intent is to get beyond photography as a listing of facts, to
images of expressive force. I feel it is useful to remind ourselves
the camera points both ways, to both an inner an outer vision.

It is late autumn in the greater Vancouver area. The leaves that
are turning color, are falling, on and around rocks, into water. I
have chosen to explore visual relationship of these elements.
Leaves provide color variations, in the warm end of the spectrum
and provide access to elements of rhythm and pattern.Leaves can be
seen as overlapping, or isolated for their delicate thin individual
shapes.

Water is chameleon- can take on a range of the color and tonality,
may be seen as reflecting blue sky, or through transparency -earth
tones at bottom of the pond.Leaves differ, above and below water.
While one leaf floats, others are echoed in the shallow water below.

Stone carries an aura of immutable weight and solidity. An
opportunity of the cooler color planes of rock, to interact with
fall leaves, set on a flat surface of water, or small rocks
rediscovered in the third image as part of a rhythmic tapestry
mosiac.

Dwelling on the figure ground relationship provides extended
opportunites for seeing. Recognizing objects is one thing- seeing
another. Seeing involves getting beyond labels of things, seeing
involves experiencing by the doing of it. To paraphrase the painter
Monet-, forget the name of rock,water, and leaf in order to see.
Seeing and creating images is I find, a highly active, satisfying,
lifelong journey.

NRich
http://www.pbase.com/norman

--
Eric Hatch
It's never too late to follow your heart.

 

[NRich]

Hello Eric,

Let me say how meaningful I find the quote I associate with you-" It never to late to follow your heart". It seems to me this quote, in essense is suggestive of the path of the artist.

Norm, thanks for sharing both the images and the aethetic yo'ure
using in creating them. John Ruskin wrote in Modern Painters about
the impossibility, as he stated it, of simulaneously portraying
water as both surface and depth.

The insightfull Ruskin reference notes past acknowlegement of painters in this area, portraying water as both surface and depth,- a near impossibility for painting- a realizable challenge for a photographer. For me to proceed in this series it is necessary for me to locate specific areas of interest in my imagination.

The desire for bettering our photos must-sooner or later- engage the herculean task of moving our generalized gaze to a specific Intent.

An individual may live beside a pond a lifetime, look but not see simultaneous relationship between waters surface and waters depth. The leaves, and rock in this case are providing the foil for this exploration.

Moving from the generalized "pics"- to specific and passionate areas of Intent may be the single most challenging and rewarding dimension of photography, or for that matter any medium pursued as an art form. The camera points both ways- to an inner as well as outer vision.

I find it of interest of that water portrayed as surface and depth, runs parallel to the nature of photography, as I pursue it. That is, my attention is to surfaces through light,coupled with the urge to express in depth, the nature of things.

It seems to me you've exploited the surface quality of the water to set off the > solidity of the above-water components of the images. The fragile translucency of
the surface certainly emphasizes the contrasting mass of the other
objects.

A very heart felt thank you.You've identify important aspects aspects that link the three images in series. Your post represents to me an outstanding awareness of my creative Intent.

I've experimented in this arena a little bit, certainly with
nothing like your success. Congratulations on wonderful pictures,
and, more important perhaps, on such a helpful explanation of what
you were after. Thank you.

My intent is to get beyond photography as a listing of facts, to
images of expressive force. I feel it is useful to remind ourselves
the camera points both ways, to both an inner an outer vision.

The leaves that are turning color, are falling, on and around rocks, into water.
I have chosen to explore visual relationship of these elements.
Leaves provide color variations, in the warm end of the spectrum
and provide access to elements of rhythm and pattern.Leaves can be
seen as overlapping, or isolated for their delicate thin individual
shapes.

Water is chameleon- can take on a range of the color and tonality,
may be seen as reflecting blue sky, or through transparency -earth
tones at bottom of the pond.Leaves differ, above and below water.
While one leaf floats, others are echoed in the shallow water below.

Stone carries an aura of immutable weight and solidity. An
opportunity of the cooler color planes of rock, to interact with
fall leaves, set on a flat surface of water, or small rocks
rediscovered in the third image as part of a rhythmic tapestry
mosiac.

p.s. I treasure this response of yours, and.would enjoy following the development of your photography if you were willing to post a site.

Eric Hatch
It's never too late to follow your heart.

--
NRich
http://www.pbase.com/norman
http://www.pbase.com/norman/dsc_f717_expressions

 

[NRich]

bbzippo

The works of Escher are intriqeing for me as well. I find it interesting to consider how we might express the nature of change- of transformation of one thing into another through still images. Escher used B+W and tonal range, in progressive almost mathematical variations. I also enjoyed the use of the lone fish in this image as a counterpoint to the leaf permutations and the branching forms.
Thank you for the visual and the enthusiasm of your post.

NRich
http://www.pbase.com/norman
http://www.pbase.com/norman/dsc_f717_expressions

Escher's "Three Worlds" - one of my favorite artworks.



I always wanted to shoot something like this...

Thank you for sharing your work and your thoughts.

 

[Bill Borne]

Hello Bill

I enjoyed your thoughtful response and your heartfelt expression of
feelings about visual issues that matter to your photography.

I imagine three distint phases of photographic development. 1.

Snapshooting, without an interest in photographic issues.(" it
doesn't look right"). which may evolving into 2. developing
photograhic interests, skills and discipline with an eye intent on
recording realism,(getting it right) which may evolve into 3.
worlds of photography as an artists medium with visual interests:
interpretive, and expressive images. I imagine you and i in this
journey, and your fine stump series in particualar, drawn to
alternating interests of "realism" and expression.
And I hope you will continue to share with me and STF the stump
series, as it developes over time. I think you would love the huge
driftwood stump I brought back with me, this summer with stones
bound up with the roots. I also own a painted stump sculpture,
called "white Clench" by Jack Shadbolt.

Thanks, Norman.

The more I read your reply the more I started thinking that what I'm really after with that stump, and granted it's probably not the greatest subject, but thats part of the challenge, is I Need to go after it on a more personal level. I have decided that when I get back to it my original and present intent is to capture the texture/shades and natural decomposition of it. to do this I will have to get up close and personal with it. So, you have made me think about it and visualize my intent. Now I have to challenge myself to achieve my hoped for results. Unfortunately it's Too Cold right now for me. But the stump is not going anywhere for a while. So I thank You for that.

 

[Erichatch]

Hi, Norm

Thanks for your kind words. Frankly, I'm posting this note with fear and trepidation... you're Da Boss in this area, I'm an egg. But you asked, so here are three experiments in surface/depth. Sinking Leaf tries to portray the transition between the two states. The others also set off the qualities of surface vs. depth.... you'll have to judge with what effect.





http://www.pbase.com/image/8363760/original,jpg

To my own eye, none of these photos wholly succeeds or wholly flops. But that said, it's over to you... and I truly appreciate your interest in my work.

I'm also including one from last week that tries to treat the surface of water in a painterly way. Here goes:

 

[Shay Stephens]

I like these a lot Eric, very nice. I think the color and smoothness strike me as the attractive aspect the most. The simple, uncluttered composition really works for me with these.

--
Shay

My Sony F707 & F717 Gallery: http://www.shaystephens.com/portfolio.asp
My F717 Observations: http://www.shaystephens.com/f717.asp

 

[NRich]

Norman,

Your "challenges" are wonderful tools and a great benefit to us !

I'm not sure that this "theme" or idea of mine falls into the
category of visual areas that matter most, but an idea that I keep
exploring (and one that helps keep me grounded) is the idea of
"familiarity" in nature photography.

Your thoughts here evoke for me- dwelling on the things you know and love- be it in painting, writing or photography I think this notion is a well spring of inspiration.

But if I were to categorize my images, many of the picures from
this trip would qualify as "good" images, but none of them would
fall into the category of "fine art" (keep in mind, if I
categorized ANY of my images as "fine art", it's in the eye of the
beholder - me

My attention is to fully realize the possibility of an image- be it a still life, or wildlife photography. I'm confident we can grow in consistency, and evolve in the ways we go about wildlife shots, the approach and timing techniques used, along with Intent can all be refined over time. Looking at the results of 10 photographers, in an outing in the same wildlife location, the results will vary considerably.Just as ten fisherman on a same bank, will end up with 10 differing results, the bait,the hook, the movement of the line-the details will all matter.

So I don't cut myself a lot of slack because of the more challenging demands of wildlife imaging. Infact I have set the bar high as of much of my wild life photography is wildlife portraits. I am currently working on the final wild coast fouth CD-Rom.of wildlife portraits. The first three are all ready published-I will post a new gallery from this selection within the month. I think with your thoughtful approach, with care and attention, your good shots are forming a base for artistic imaging.

Why ? Because while I photographed with a degree
of intent and whatever knowledge and skill I have (not to mention
good equipment), I was in the mode of making the most out of
opportunities presented to me ... mostly out of luck. We had done
some reading ahead of time, and that researched helped us locate
some wildlife ...

I find my attitude is crutial in wildlife photography, and though luck plays a part, I prefer to think of being part of a wildlife setting, move and prepare in ways that will asure me the results I'm after.

But many of the shots were "grab" shots. Black bear and cubs at
the bottom of a ravine. There's a mob of people above gawking at
them (including Leonard Lee Rue dressed in Khakis and toting a
video camera !) and a park ranger making sure nobody gets to close.

I appreciate the difficulties your aluding to here. In my case, if an animal is turned or walking away, and my intent is not to have a shot from behind- I won't reward myself by taking the shot, that I know in advance I won't want or keep. By retraining this impulse and raising the bar- I do many things different, then someone might,who is satisfied with the generalized notion of a picture of an animal.I retain a simular drive toward expressing specific intent in wildlife as well as still life imaging.

Landscapes ... there are viewing points that provide stunning
vistas. While I'm there shooting a waterfall, about 20 other
people take the same shot. Most of them shoot hand held; one or
two others with a tripod. One guy has an old 4x5 camera. The
weather & lighting are pretty nice. I see an osprey flying about
so I'm patient and I actually capture the osprey flying right in
front of the waterfall.

In the end, there have been 100,000 pictures (maybe many more) of
that waterfall taken, and probably 10,000 better than mine. Bears
? Forget it ... any calendar company with $150 can choose from
thousands of better bear pictures.

I don't regret my trip for a second - it was phenomenal and I love
my pictures.

Your outdoor travel sounds marvelous,sounds like you have good shots and great memories.

But my "fine art" pictures are of things that I know well and have
the opportunity to photograph with much more intent. I can take my
time; I can explore them; I can revisit them when the light is

different or when the seasons are different. But I've got a bluebird picture taken
10 minutes from the house that wows them ! "Bug pictures" taken in
the back yard - bumble bees settling in for the night in the base
of a sun flower.

This notion of familiarity- seems to be something that you are well in tune with, and a real path of futher development.

Wildlife imaging requires conciderable intent. Slowing down the pace-the timeing -in familar circumstances allows us the opportunity to refine skills, and delve deeper in souroundings when "familarity" is made to be an asset.

from across a valley with a 400mm lens at 4:00 am and got a picture
that stunned everyone attending a workshop I took ...

400mm- are you using a digital camera- a while back you mentioned starting a gallery site- are you closer to doing that? Pbase is marvelous-I am a donation supporter.

So whenever I get the itch to photograph wildlife or landscapes
that I can't find locally (we have bears & coyotes, but
photographing them locally is a real challenge) I just remind
myself that my results won't compare with what I can do with what I
know.

I don't think I would appreciate what I saw or the images I would
capture nearly as much as images of the outdoors that I know & love.

Sounds good to me.

OK, that's enough ... I'll probably have to split this post as it is !

• Dennis

--
NRich
http://www.pbase.com/norman
http://www.pbase.com/norman/dsc_f717_expressions

 

[NRich]

Hi Eric

We influence each other in the best of ways- following our discussion in this thread- This photo shot today-leaves on the water bottom- moth floating on the waters surface.

I have a little button on my wall in the kitchen- I picked up somewhere that reads " fear no art". Imagine another button reading "fear no artist". One of the many things I like about Art is that there are no bosses, no right and wrong answers. We freely share a diversity of experience and varied perspectives.

My views no matter how strong they may appear, are notions-like my art- subject to growth and change. Strong experienced views in the art world can be seen as a wall to bounce off- priming a pump, as we gravitate to what works for us as individuals.

I contribute with conviction on visual areas that matter to me, from a 30 year fine arts background- At the same time I continue to learn much in these forums, and I view my role more as a facilator and catalyst rather than an authority.

That said-I am pleased you posted these photos- and they are enjoyable indeed. Rather than singeling out a best- I'd like to explore the enjoyment of my response to the yellow leaf image and why. It not in front of me as I write so I'll go by memory-( its memorable to me).

Direct sunlight is on the leaf and reflected under and through the leaf as if a membrane-with transluscent appearance.These relections are aided by the the near distance of the water to the water surface-a distance that makes deeper and richer the shadow area of the leaf off to the left.Imaged this way this yellow leaf is all the more striking in its simplicity and contrast. The bright flat leaf benefits from the textured rippled water rythmns- in its figure ground relationship.

One might further appreciate this fine and dramatic tonality viewed in B+W. Once in B+W I might further examine what role the size and shape of the larger dark mass to the right is playing.Your appraisal of wholly succeeding may be only a matter of a small crop.As Your galleries are enjoyable, you may wish to embed your gallery link in the pbase profile.

NRich
http://www.pbase.com/norman
http://www.pbase.com/norman/dsc_f717_expressions

Hi, Norm

Thanks for your kind words. Frankly, I'm posting this note with
fear and trepidation... you're Da Boss in this area, I'm an egg.
But you asked, so here are three experiments in surface/depth.
Sinking Leaf tries to portray the transition between the two
states. The others also set off the qualities of surface vs.
depth.... you'll have to judge with what effect.

To my own eye, none of these photos wholly succeeds or wholly
flops. But that said, it's over to you... and I truly appreciate
your interest in my work.

I'm also including one from last week that tries to treat the
surface of water in a painterly way. Here goes:

 

[nzmacro]

Very interesting reading Norman. To me natural art is what captures my mind and eyes. To be able to capture that and share it with others, makes for a greater appreciation for all. In macro its a very special world we see. Some things we get to look at can't be seen with the eye at all. They are the shots that really appeal. They are also a great lesson on how wonderful this world really is, nature wise.

All the very best and interesting thoughts and reading here. Great shots and please, keep them coming. )

Danny.

--
Macro, what a world.
.............................
http://www.macrophotos.com

 

[Dennis]

I appreciate the difficulties your aluding to here. In my case, if
an animal is turned or walking away, and my intent is not to have a
shot from behind- I won't reward myself by taking the shot, that I
know in advance I won't want or keep. By retraining this impulse
and raising the bar- I do many things different, then someone
might,who is satisfied with the generalized notion of a picture of
an animal.I retain a simular drive toward expressing specific
intent in wildlife as well as still life imaging.

There are times when I can go out and photograph "well" ... meaning I can take the time I need to strive to create & capture images to the best of my ability. And there are times, like this trip to Yellowstone, where the sole purpose is not photography; well, at least not photographing some single subject or theme - one week to explore two national parks and see as much as I could see ! It was a conscious decision ... I could have made it a photography expedition ... I could have found an isolated stretch of a stream and spent a day there - occupied myself for another day with a macro lens in a single acre ... instead, we played tourist and saw as much as possible, and under those circumstances, I captured pretty good images. So I guess my main point is that I'm not going to fly off to Yellowstone for a week and capture wildlife images that rival those of Tom Mangelsen any more than he's going to fly to Litchfield County, CT for a week and capture the spirit of the area the way I can over the course of a year. This realization made me much, much happier to photograph in my own "back yard" (sometimes literally, sometimes figuratively).

I think there's something to that first sentence in the above paragraph I wrote about photographing "well". I don't seem to judge that so much by my results as by how I took a photo. This goes back to your notion of intent, I think. I'm pleased with my Yellowstone photographs - they illustrate the fact that as a photographer, I'm a fair "craftsman". I know the basics; I can work with lighting and use my equipment to capture good images. But when I photograph "well", I try to go beyond the craft and dabble in the art. In this area, I'm far less likely to succeed because I think after learning the craft over the past 25+ years (I started when I was 8 I've only been digging into the art for a few years. But when I do go out and photograph with the mindset that I'm exploring with the camera and trying to create images as much as capture them, it's much more satisfying, regardless of the results. The funny thing is, back when I was 8, I was much more creative, trying to create all kinds of images on film, rather than simpy capture what I saw. The results stunk, because I didn't know what I was doing. Now I just have to reclaim some of that creativity and playfulness.

400mm- are you using a digital camera- a while back you mentioned
starting a gallery site- are you closer to doing that? Pbase is
marvelous-I am a donation supporter.

No ... I use Minolta AF gear. The 400/4.5 is in the same high end line of lenses as the 300/2.8 and 600/4, but is smaller, lighter, cheaper and sharper ... I shot a lot with an APO 1.4X. I actually did start scanning in a few slides, but haven't uploaded them yet. I didn't believe my friends when they warned me, but now I'm amazed to see how much time a little newborn (now 2 month old) baby takes ! At least I'm having fun taking baby pictures (we're putting up a Christmas tree early this year to do the old cliche new-baby-in-front-of-the-tree cards ...)

I don't think I would appreciate what I saw or the images I would
capture nearly as much as images of the outdoors that I know & love.

Sounds good to me.

By the way, that familiarity is one of the reasons I enjoy your images so much. Many of the locations look like wet, mossy versions of places I've visited

• Dennis

 

[Erichatch]

Hey, Dennis, I grew up in Litchfield, went to school for a while in Washington... studied (very briefly) under Guido Organschi, Litchfield-based photographer... small world.

I appreciate the difficulties your aluding to here. In my case, if
an animal is turned or walking away, and my intent is not to have a
shot from behind- I won't reward myself by taking the shot, that I
know in advance I won't want or keep. By retraining this impulse
and raising the bar- I do many things different, then someone
might,who is satisfied with the generalized notion of a picture of
an animal.I retain a simular drive toward expressing specific
intent in wildlife as well as still life imaging.

There are times when I can go out and photograph "well" ... meaning
I can take the time I need to strive to create & capture images to
the best of my ability. And there are times, like this trip to
Yellowstone, where the sole purpose is not photography; well, at
least not photographing some single subject or theme - one week to
explore two national parks and see as much as I could see ! It was
a conscious decision ... I could have made it a photography
expedition ... I could have found an isolated stretch of a stream
and spent a day there - occupied myself for another day with a
macro lens in a single acre ... instead, we played tourist and saw
as much as possible, and under those circumstances, I captured
pretty good images. So I guess my main point is that I'm not going
to fly off to Yellowstone for a week and capture wildlife images
that rival those of Tom Mangelsen any more than he's going to fly
to Litchfield County, CT for a week and capture the spirit of the
area the way I can over the course of a year. This realization
made me much, much happier to photograph in my own "back yard"
(sometimes literally, sometimes figuratively).

I think there's something to that first sentence in the above
paragraph I wrote about photographing "well". I don't seem to
judge that so much by my results as by how I took a photo. This
goes back to your notion of intent, I think. I'm pleased with my
Yellowstone photographs - they illustrate the fact that as a
photographer, I'm a fair "craftsman". I know the basics; I can
work with lighting and use my equipment to capture good images.
But when I photograph "well", I try to go beyond the craft and
dabble in the art. In this area, I'm far less likely to succeed
because I think after learning the craft over the past 25+ years (I
started when I was 8 I've only been digging into the art for a
few years. But when I do go out and photograph with the mindset
that I'm exploring with the camera and trying to create images as
much as capture them, it's much more satisfying, regardless of the
results. The funny thing is, back when I was 8, I was much more
creative, trying to create all kinds of images on film, rather than
simpy capture what I saw. The results stunk, because I didn't know
what I was doing. Now I just have to reclaim some of that
creativity and playfulness.

400mm- are you using a digital camera- a while back you mentioned
starting a gallery site- are you closer to doing that? Pbase is
marvelous-I am a donation supporter.

No ... I use Minolta AF gear. The 400/4.5 is in the same high end
line of lenses as the 300/2.8 and 600/4, but is smaller, lighter,
cheaper and sharper ... I shot a lot with an APO 1.4X. I actually
did start scanning in a few slides, but haven't uploaded them yet.
I didn't believe my friends when they warned me, but now I'm amazed
to see how much time a little newborn (now 2 month old) baby takes
! At least I'm having fun taking baby pictures (we're putting up a
Christmas tree early this year to do the old cliche
new-baby-in-front-of-the-tree cards ...)

I don't think I would appreciate what I saw or the images I would
capture nearly as much as images of the outdoors that I know & love.

Sounds good to me.

By the way, that familiarity is one of the reasons I enjoy your
images so much. Many of the locations look like wet, mossy
versions of places I've visited

• Dennis

--
Eric Hatch
It's never too late to follow your heart.

 

[Dennis]

Hey, Dennis, I grew up in Litchfield, went to school for a while in
Washington... studied (very briefly) under Guido Organschi,
Litchfield-based photographer... small world.

Eric ...

I was born & raised in Torrington - spent 28 years there, then moved to Sharon 7 years ago. Don't think I could ever leave New England

• Dennis

ctyankee wrote:

 

[Erichatch]

Do you know John Kissko (Torrington)? My wife grew up just outside Torrington in E. Litchfield. And I dated a girl in Sharon long before that.... (of course, you weren't yet born!)

Hey, Dennis, I grew up in Litchfield, went to school for a while in
Washington... studied (very briefly) under Guido Organschi,
Litchfield-based photographer... small world.

Eric ...

I was born & raised in Torrington - spent 28 years there, then
moved to Sharon 7 years ago. Don't think I could ever leave New
England

• Dennis

ctyankee wrote:

--
Eric Hatch
It's never too late to follow your heart.

 

[NRich]

I retain a simular drive toward expressing specific
intent in wildlife as well as still life imaging.

In this area, I'm far less likely to succeed
because I think after learning the craft over the past 25+ years (I
started when I was 8 I've only been digging into the art for a
few years.

My sense Is that you have built, and are building a foundation of sound camera skills,and are comfortable in your abilities to capture and record the world around you. In my experiense it is a natural facet of creative growth to alternate between well crafted images that document, and images that draw us further into expressive pursuits. Creativity , in my experience responds more to nurturing rather than forcing. We put in our dues- and discover our path,vision, and intent evolving maturing over months, years and decades.

But when I do go out and photograph with the mindset
that I'm exploring with the camera and trying to create images as
much as capture them, it's much more satisfying, regardless of the
results.

Dennis, I think you've stated this extreamly well. The challenge is not only knowing in the mind, but for us to remeber in the field.The tedency is to sacrifice The image as a whole for the immeadiacy of capturing the subject. I slow down the process- even with- especially with wildlife- where one must overcome the rapid heart beat of ecitement, and remain calm and commited to a creative and expressive path.

The funny thing is, back when I was 8, I was much more
creative, trying to create all kinds of images on film, rather than
simpy capture what I saw. The results stunk, because I didn't know
what I was doing.
Now I just have to reclaim some of that creativity and playfulness.

I agree with you here. I use the expression a relaxed attentiveness. When our attention is fully in the recording mode-were stressed with getting it right. Whe were in the expressive mode our attention is on what is is we want to say- and simply adjusting the controls accordingly.

400mm- are you using a digital camera- a while back you mentioned
starting a gallery site- are you closer to doing that? Pbase is
marvelous-I am a donation supporter.

No ... I use Minolta AF gear. The 400/4.5 is in the same high end
line of lenses as the 300/2.8 and 600/4, but is smaller, lighter,
cheaper and sharper ... I shot a lot with an APO 1.4X. I actually
did start scanning in a few slides, but haven't uploaded them yet.

Uploading is easy- at pbase, if you are posting more than several..try the "expanded mode"-middle right.

P.S. With your interest in creative aspects of wild life photograhy- today- I have initiated my "Canadian wildlife gallery" at pbase.
--
NRich
http://www.pbase.com/norman
http://www.pbase.com/norman/dsc_f717_expressions

 

[Dennis]

nurturing rather than forcing. We put in our dues- and discover our
path,vision, and intent evolving maturing over months, years and
decades.

Reminds me of Thomas Jefferson's quote: "Though an old man, I am still a young gardener"

But when I do go out and photograph with the mindset
that I'm exploring with the camera and trying to create images as
much as capture them, it's much more satisfying, regardless of the
results.

Dennis, I think you've stated this extreamly well.

Thanks !

The challenge is
not only knowing in the mind, but for us to remeber in the
field.The tedency is to sacrifice The image as a whole for the
immeadiacy of capturing the subject.

Definitely ... for some reason, the mindset I have when I walk out of the house influences this tendency tremendously, though I know it doesn't have to be that way.

I slow down the process- even
with- especially with wildlife- where one must overcome the rapid
heart beat of ecitement, and remain calm and commited to a creative
and expressive path.

I agree re: wildlife. I used to participate on the Minolta list on Yahoo frequently - now occasionally - and would read all the posts from Minolta users envious of the fast, faster, fastest gear from Canon (IS and USM and n-fps motor drive, etc.) When I shoot 35mm, I use manual focus almost exclusively (well, when I'm not shooting candids at a birthday party or something similar). Even shooting wildlife, I focus manually, often using a magnifier for critical focus (DOF can be really shallow If I'm not observing an animal long enough to stop & think about how to take the shot, then it just wasn't meant to be ...

I agree with you here. I use the expression a relaxed
attentiveness. When our attention is fully in the recording
mode-were stressed with getting it right. Whe were in the
expressive mode our attention is on what is is we want to say- and
simply adjusting the controls accordingly.

I'll write that expression down on a piece of paper and have it handy next time I'm out shooting & see what I can do with it !

Uploading is easy- at pbase, if you are posting more than
several..try the "expanded mode"-middle right.

I'll work on it

P.S. With your interest in creative aspects of wild life
photograhy- today- I have initiated my "Canadian wildlife gallery"
at pbase.

Interesting gallery ... the subjects are fairly "mundane" (vs. exotic) as far as wildlife goes in this age when anyone can book a trip to photograph polar bears from a tundra buggy. Yet they're fascinating because they're more than pictures of animals. Each one uses wildlife as "objects" in an artistic composition and/or portrays animals existing in an artistically beautiful setting while still showing an interesting subject. I especially appreciate the way the subjects are arranged to echo the lines in their surroundings ... the eagle parallel to the triangular sign; the seals arranged to follow the curve of the shoreline, or lying outstretched to provide another horizontal layer between the rocks ... bird photos 1 and 4 also show subjects arranged to echo the lines of the rocks. Very nice !

• Dennis

 

[NRich]

Definitely ... for some reason, the mindset I have when I walk out
of the house influences this tendency tremendously, though I know
it doesn't have to be that way.

I think whether we bring either a full bag of equipment or camera alone, we require equal awareness to commit to the same level of Intent.There is no real reason why not to IMO.

I slow down the process- even
with- especially with wildlife- where one must overcome the rapid
heart beat of ecitement, and remain calm and commited to a creative
and expressive path.

Minolta users envious of the fast, faster, fastest gear from
Canon (IS and USM and n-fps motor drive, etc.)

Its interesting to me for all the dicussion on fast and faster equipment there is little if any mention of acelerating our use of Intent.This, I feel is far more important than faster equipment.

Imagine 3 photographers-emerging from a forest into an open field where a deer slowly walking is discovered. One just wants to get a shot of a deer- that is there intent, and thats as far as they have imagined there respose.In word words the intent is for visual and artistic purposes- nonexistant. Not so much as not thought out, but rather not digested, or made to matter.

The second is a more seasoned photographer with professional equipment, five shots are fired off in the belief that the shot is certainly captured. The focus is on getting it right, according to the camera controls. The operative thought is recording things as they are, rather than the creative and visual structure of the image.

The third photgrapher, has preset the camera as he enters the open field, aware that the qualities of light are subtle and changing, looks carefully at the visual values in the scene, begins a subtle process engaging , eyes, heart, and mind so as to bring to the fore a strong Intent. This individual will notice tree shadows randomly moving across the deer-not his(or her) intent to break up the form of the deer in this way. The deer is partially camoflaged- allowing only a peep a boo depiction of a deer.

The deer is heading toward a clearing for that will allow an open shot.This is somewhat better, but the intent that is emerging centers around is the deers gradated tawny tones, form, and the golden field grasses-(the height of the grasses in relation to the body, to be set by the height of the camera. This reationship now works in the lower two thirds of the shot, but not yet in the tee limbs of the upper third.

The already others have their shot(s) This third photographer has a greater commitment to the visual possibites- of which the deer is a part of- and cares enough for the image to circle around where he will await the deer passing in front of a sandy bank-so as to maintain the choosen tonal range, and simper form, and thereby removing the distracting tree limbs in the upper third of the image.

This now bring together the opportunity for the full spectrum of visual elements intended. To the the extent this intent is clear, it is now a matter of maintaining this inner focus-along with the outer particulars- executing the shot with confidence. And that, im my view hold the keys to mastery,more importantly swings open wide the doors of photography as a crestive medium.

When the three photograher return home- the first with a deer snapshot- with lots of sky,is unsatisfyed and won't know why. The second a more expereinced photographer, will have rather good shots technically, but will be annoyed to discover distracting tree limb shadows across the form of the deer- and will think better luck next time.

The photographer intent is on on issues of light,color,tonality,composition, movement rythmn, texture, and other visual conciderations- can overall expect and receive the results intented.

I agree with you here. I use the expression a relaxed
attentiveness. When our attention is fully in the recording
mode-were stressed with getting it right. Whe were in the
expressive mode our attention is on what is is we want to say- and
simply adjusting the controls accordingly.

I'll write that expression down on a piece of paper and have it
handy next time I'm out shooting & see what I can do with it !

Attitudes are huge in fine photograhy and creative imaging. I'll bet you'll acelerate your already serious photography pursuits by further highlighting Intent through "relaxed attentiveness".

Yet they're fascinating because they're more than pictures of animals.

Thank you- My wife is a college biology teacher-we spend two month of the year to acheive "familarity" in coastal Canadian wilderness areas-we've made this a priority In the past six years- we've been a full year in the wilds.

I contiue however the high bar I have set for myself with the same respect for the birds and mammals I encounter in urban settings as well. Here is a f707 image of a pigeon. My intent: to express the presence of this often overlooked bird in our neighborhood parks, as if a portriat of someone we cared about.



--
NRich
http://www.pbase.com/norman
http://www.pbase.com/norman/dsc_f717_expressions

 

[Dennis]

I think whether we bring either a full bag of equipment or camera
alone, we require equal awareness to commit to the same level of
Intent.There is no real reason why not to IMO.

I agree ! I'll work on that commitment !

Minolta users envious of the fast, faster, fastest gear from
Canon (IS and USM and n-fps motor drive, etc.)

Its interesting to me for all the dicussion on fast and faster
equipment there is little if any mention of acelerating our use of
Intent.This, I feel is far more important than faster equipment.

Every so often (back on that Minolta group) someone typically would chime in on the discussions about needing better/faster gear with comments about how irrelevant the gear is to developing photo skills. But my impression was that those comments were typically just verbiage being spouted by people who wanted to sound like they knew better. Someone would fling a name ("Ansel Adams") ... he didn't need an 8fps camera ! Didn't contribute much to the conversation because whoever he was didn't do the same kind of photography as the person dying for the better gear !

Probably the biggest problem with that group on Yahoo was the lack of publicly posted photos, so that you couldn't really tell if you were getting advice from anyone worth listening to And I acknowledge that the more I talk here without a gallery of my own, the less likely it is that anyone will take me too seriously ! I now have a Pbase account - just no pictures yet (if I can only find some time to spend on my home computer and not my work computer).

Imagine 3 photographers-emerging from a forest ...

When the three photograher return home- the first with a deer
snapshot- with lots of sky,is unsatisfyed and won't know why. The
second a more expereinced photographer, will have rather good shots
technically, but will be annoyed to discover distracting tree limb
shadows across the form of the deer- and will think better luck
next time.
The photographer intent is on on issues of
light,color,tonality,composition, movement rythmn, texture, and
other visual conciderations- can overall expect and receive the
results intented.

So the question is - how does one get from being photographer 1 or 2 to become photographer 3 ? My own approach is take act somewhat like photographer 2, with some of the intent of photographer 3, and a better ability to edit, critique and learn from mistakes than your photographer 2.

Finally, there's the issue of intent at a much higher level ... in another post, I came to the conclusion (after thinking about some of your posts) that I'm much more satisfied with my own photography when I go out and photograph with greater intent. But at a higher level, what's my goal with wildlife photography ? Well, I'm a computer programmer by trade, with plenty of commitments to my family and to the house and yard, who gets out to photograph far too infrequently. I'll never be a great wildlife photographer. Not that I couldn't be, but I'm not going to make the sacrifices it takes. I'll certainly try, every time I go out, but in the meantime, I'd like to amass a collection of photographs of wildlife I've seen - memories, I guess. My best fox photo right now was taken through three panes of window glass - pretty awful ! But thanks to experience and practice, I've taken bluebird photos on several occasions; learned about their behavior, and used that to get a shot I'm happy with (complete with looking over my shoulder at the sky and waiting for a break in the clouds to get some sunshine). So I'm still at a stage where if I see potential for an image I'll be happy with, I'll work at it, and take pictures as I approach my shooting position, knowing that the practice will help me.

Now my landscapes and scenics are a different matter - they don't have many of the difficulties inherent in wildlife photography and I challenge myself very much - I'm not happy with just a "pretty picture" - I think I'm capable enough of recording scenes I stumble across that I have to be photographing "with intent" to create images that do something for me.

I think in either case, it's a matter of challenging myself. If I'm pretty good at one type of photography, I'm closer to being your photographer 3. With other types of photography, if I don't have the skills, then maybe I'm challenged just to capture the image well. So long as I keep trying to challenge myself, I think that's the fun of it all.

Thank you- My wife is a college biology teacher-we spend two month
of the year to acheive "familarity" in coastal Canadian wilderness
areas-we've made this a priority In the past six years- we've been
a full year in the wilds.

Wow ! I'm envious !

I contiue however the high bar I have set for myself with the same
respect for the birds and mammals I encounter in urban settings as
well. Here is a f707 image of a pigeon. My intent: to express the
presence of this often overlooked bird in our neighborhood parks,
as if a portriat of someone we cared about.

Well, if that was your intent, well done ... there's a very human expression in that face ... reminds me of an impatient man grudgingly allowing his picture to be taken, but he's not going to be happy about it.

• Dennis

 

[NRich]

I think whether we bring either a full bag of equipment or camera
alone, we require equal awareness to commit to the same level of
Intent.There is no real reason why not to IMO.

I agree ! I'll work on that commitment !

Sounds Great.

didn't do the same kind of photography as the person dying for the better > gear.> !

Yes, our frame of reference, and understanding where were each is coming from matters: IMO.

Probably the biggest problem with that group on Yahoo was the lack
of publicly posted photos, so that you couldn't really tell if you
were getting advice from anyone worth listening to

As you know I am a strong advocate of linking galleries with post as (1) It allows us to cross reference view points with photographic images which lets us "see"for ourselves.(2.) Its a source of enjoyment- to be shared by all.

And I acknowledge that the more I talk here without a gallery of my own,
the less likely it is that anyone will take me too seriously !

I have taken you seriously from the start, and see this discussion as a continuation of our valued discussions in previous threads.

now have a Pbase account - just no pictures yet (if I can only find
some time to spend on my home computer and not my work computer).

No hurry- I know your working on it.

So the question is - how does one get from being photographer 1 or
2 to become photographer 3 ? My own approach is take act somewhat
like photographer 2, with some of the intent of photographer 3,
and a better ability to edit, critique and learn from mistakes than
your photographer 2.

You've pinpointed IMO one of ,if not the single most meaningful and illusive areas of quest : the question of growth as photographers. For those prepared to recognize photography as a visual medium ,issues of creative growth can emerge-From here we can envision creative growth linked to expressive possibilites - wherby we've entered the playing field of other creative mediums such as painting ,writing, sculpture, and music etc.

These fields of creativity demand that intent drive the process-because they begin with a blank slate. It is possible however in photography, to click a shutter release blindfolded. Collectively, the urge of crafting intent via a camera is all to often mirky, embryo like- creatively unformed, or non existant. The words "point and shoot conjurs up this wide spread practice." We exist this realm via basic skills of camera control- so that at some point in this cycle- with fundamentals in place, we are able to start thinking about artistry.

Finally, there's the issue of intent at a much higher level ... in
another post, I came to the conclusion (after thinking about some
of your posts) that I'm much more satisfied with my own photography
when I go out and photograph with greater intent.

I'm pleased. Greater intent , and relaxed attentiveness serve us well in the field, or so I've found.

But at a higher level, what's my goal with wildlife photography ?

If one sets out with the intent of good portraits, wildlife set up is a little like working with the most squirmey, fidgety kids imaginable. So here I find intent, is mixed with a good dose of adaption, timing, and set-up preparation. Still the visual priorites are made to matter in my approach- the challenge is just that much greater.

I'll certainly try, every time I go out, but in the
meantime, I'd like to amass a collection of photographs of wildlife
I've seen - memories, I guess.

Varying intent, for example drawing from a reportage, and documenting approach can take excessive presuure off unrealistic demands in wildlife photography- ones intent can be simplified as a recording of species well, or as ambitious as recording wildlife behavior. Or the intent could be to construct wildlife images-along the lines of a wildlife painter-aware of the full frame, the lines colors, forms, textures, and ryhthmns in the image. Each intent IMO has a validity in its own right , and each can draw upon visual understandings.

So I'm still at a stage where if I see potential for an
image I'll be happy with, I'll work at it, and take pictures as I
approach my shooting position, knowing that the practice will help
me.

I imagine the shot I want, with what I want in it- from corner to corner, I find this helpfull if I'm to shot as I go in.

I think I'm capable enough of recording scenes I stumble
across that I have to be photographing "with intent" to create
images that do something for me.

"Does something for me"-I refer to that as creative expression.

I think in either case, it's a matter of challenging myself. If
I'm pretty good at one type of photography, I'm closer to being
your photographer 3. With other types of photography, if I don't
have the skills, then maybe I'm challenged just to capture the
image well. So long as I keep trying to challenge myself, I think
that's the fun of it all.

Interesting area to explore further.Yes-my experience is to the extent ones intent evolves and matures, so goes the growth of ones art form, be it photography or painting.

I contiue however the high bar I have set for myself with the same
respect for the birds and mammals I encounter in urban settings as
well. Here is a f707 image of a gull. My intent: to express the
presence of this often overlooked bird in our neighborhood parks,
as if a portriat of someone we cared about.

Well, if that was your intent, well done ... there's a very human
expression in that face ... reminds me of an impatient man
grudgingly allowing his picture to be taken, but he's not going to
be happy about it.

....

• Dennis

--
NRich
http://www.pbase.com/norman
http://www.pbase.com/norman/dsc_f717_expressions