The Camera doesn't matter.

So, either the camera matters or it doesn't.
I agree. Funny original post. It doesn't matter, as long as its a Fuji??
Whether you like it or not, whether you agree or not is irrelevant because the evidence of what I said exists.
You misread the statement. No one said a cell phone couldn't take interesting photos. That's not the same as saying the camera doesn't matter. Surely you would agree that if another camera take more interesting photos, under more difficult circumstances, with higher quality, that the camera does, indeed, matter? That applies to Fuji's and iPhones alike.
 
Pro use pinhole cameras and Polaroid as well...doesn’t make them good. Looking at the images you included, all of them in a 16x20 print fall apart with noise, noise reduction artifacts, tonality and colour issues.



Stating that “Pro’s use it” is completely meaningless and misses the point.
 
as long as it is a real camera.
All my cell phones are capable of capturing images or taking photographs, but I NEVER use cell phone to take pictures,

But what is a REAL camera?
Are DISPOSABLE cameras, e.g. Kodak and Fuji, REAL or IMAGINARY
What about INSTANT (print) cameras e.g. Polaroid, Kodak, Fuji, are those not REAL cameras
Plate camera such as Linhoff, Conley, Graflex, etc .- are those not REAL camera
Minox and other spy camera, are those not REAL
Are these devices included in your exception?
I agree, a phone is not necessarily a camera, specially the rotary dial and wall phones. But many mobile or cell phones are equipped with lenses and electronic circuitry designed to capture the light bouncing off object, convert that light into electrical signals that could be displayed as images on an LCD.
Have a good day. Enjoy shooting.
Any and all the above may not be REAL camera to you, but all of those are REAL camera to me.
.
A mobile phone capable of capturing images photographically may not be a TRADITIONAL or CONVENTIONAL camera, but is a REAL camera to me.
.
As already posted by others, the IMAGES taken by the camera MATTERS, perhaps not just the camera used to take the photograph. Ultimately, it seems to me that it is the Photographer that matters,
Oh boy! What did you have for breakfast? Some steroids instead of cornflakes?
Why resort to personal attack?
BTW, I have been to Vienna several times, your cornflakes are imported from my country.
My post was not meant to start a war. It was meant as a love letter to real cameras.
Your post SOLICITED response from the public
There is no reason to do this for phone cameras because they are already outnumbering "real" cameras by a factor of 1.000 or more in the real world.
IMHO, your post was to publicize your blog. Your STUBBORNNESS INSISTING cell phones are NOT real camera is the issue.
If your phone is a camera for you that's fine. If I see my phone mainly as a phone it's also fine. It is called opinion and we are allowed to have different ones.
Read the third to last paragraph of my post!
 
Here’s a more poetic take on what a camera is:

https://link.medium.com/BY233hYUCab

1. the shot / shooting experience

2. ready to shoot /settings

3. something carried around

4. a gadget in the house

5. the file / post-production

We think mostly about #1 and #5, and a bit about #2, and that is valid - they’re most important. But not everything.

Curious what this might add
This is kinda poetic. I like it!
Cheers!


--
 
Yes, "auto" mode on (any?) dedicated camera is still miles behind what today`s smartphones are capable of, supported by depth sensors, artificial intelligence / neural networks, much faster and more capable processors, etc.
And every one of those things is dedicated to making the phone have bokeh (like a real camera) and less noise/artifacts (like a real camera). To try and replicate longer focal length optics which even bridge cameras have natively. Real cameras don't have most of this stuff *because they don't need it.*
Wrong - what you miss here is that phones are _almost_ there, and that with their tiny (not to say laughable) sensors. Just imagine what could be accomplished with the same technology _and_ "real" (as you called them, I`d say "dedicated") cameras? ;)

If cameras wouldn`t need all the possible improvements, we wouldn`t be seeing constant additions of bigger/better/more stuff that eventually all goes into the same direction - allowing for even better and more creative results.

Just that camera makers are still sitting on their butts without being aware that if they don`t embrace the technology phones are rushing forward with, it will eat them, eventually making the whole "real" camera sector niche - which partially already is, unfortunately.
The point being doing stuff in the background which user couldn`t even do himself (nor probably understand, lol), not just making automatic decisions about the stuff the user can select for himself, too.
We don't have to do all that stuff with a CPU because our real cameras do it for us with hardware. Purpose built hardware and control software to do one thing: take pictures. it doesn't have to run apps, surf the web, have security updates. It just has to take pictures. Well, and make video. OK, that's two things.. but you can see my point.
No they certainly can`t do it all - especially not without paying a huge price in the size and weight of the equipment in use. And no one mentioned apps, no need to twist it upside down.

And no, I don`t see your point, as whatever camera hardware is capable of now simply because it is much larger/heaver/you-name-it, it would be able to do much better with improved technology on top, which phones already use - thus providing even more quality/options, or being able to downsize, even, without any loss of current possibilities. That alone is worth it.
I couldn't agree more. My guess is the "real camera" manufacturers are looking very hard at computational stuff, and if somebody puts in into a real camera, there will soon be a technology avalanche. I think they might all be waiting for somebody else to introduce it first.
 
My reply was directed towards the notion that real cameras need an automatic "smart phone" mode. They pretty much already have one.

And from what was said in the release video, it sounds like the new X-S10 will take this even further-selecting what film sim it thinks is best for the scene. That sounds pretty 'smart phone mode' to me.
Computational image is the key term here.
Yes, "auto" mode on (any?) dedicated camera is still miles behind what today`s smartphones are capable of, supported by depth sensors, artificial intelligence / neural networks, much faster and more capable processors, etc.
And every one of those things is dedicated to making the phone have bokeh (like a real camera) and less noise/artifacts (like a real camera). To try and replicate longer focal length optics which even bridge cameras have natively. Real cameras don't have most of this stuff *because they don't need it.*
But we are discussing the claim you made on Auto on the other cameras vs what th cellphones do you saying it was the same. Which one is it then?
The point being doing stuff in the background which user couldn`t even do himself (nor probably understand, lol), not just making automatic decisions about the stuff the user can select for himself, too.
We don't have to do all that stuff with a CPU because our real cameras do it for us with hardware. Purpose built hardware and control software to do one thing: take pictures. it doesn't have to run apps, surf the web, have security updates. It just has to take pictures. Well, and make video. OK, that's two things.. but you can see my point.
It`s not my way of enjoying photography, but I still find it important as a possibility.
It's good enough for texting pics and Instagram, sometimes. No phone will ever be as easy to use to create images for me as a real camera.

However the phone is quite useful for getting the pics from a real camera to the internet. Modern phones with nice screens are quite good for that. Now, if the camera vendors would only begin to make their device tether software *not suck so much..*
 
Yes, "auto" mode on (any?) dedicated camera is still miles behind what today`s smartphones are capable of, supported by depth sensors, artificial intelligence / neural networks, much faster and more capable processors, etc.
And every one of those things is dedicated to making the phone have bokeh (like a real camera) and less noise/artifacts (like a real camera). To try and replicate longer focal length optics which even bridge cameras have natively. Real cameras don't have most of this stuff *because they don't need it.*
Wrong - what you miss here is that phones are _almost_ there, and that with their tiny (not to say laughable) sensors. Just imagine what could be accomplished with the same technology _and_ "real" (as you called them, I`d say "dedicated") cameras? ;)

If cameras wouldn`t need all the possible improvements, we wouldn`t be seeing constant additions of bigger/better/more stuff that eventually all goes into the same direction - allowing for even better and more creative results.

Just that camera makers are still sitting on their butts without being aware that if they don`t embrace the technology phones are rushing forward with, it will eat them, eventually making the whole "real" camera sector niche - which partially already is, unfortunately.
The point being doing stuff in the background which user couldn`t even do himself (nor probably understand, lol), not just making automatic decisions about the stuff the user can select for himself, too.
We don't have to do all that stuff with a CPU because our real cameras do it for us with hardware. Purpose built hardware and control software to do one thing: take pictures. it doesn't have to run apps, surf the web, have security updates. It just has to take pictures. Well, and make video. OK, that's two things.. but you can see my point.
No they certainly can`t do it all - especially not without paying a huge price in the size and weight of the equipment in use. And no one mentioned apps, no need to twist it upside down.

And no, I don`t see your point, as whatever camera hardware is capable of now simply because it is much larger/heaver/you-name-it, it would be able to do much better with improved technology on top, which phones already use - thus providing even more quality/options, or being able to downsize, even, without any loss of current possibilities. That alone is worth it.
I couldn't agree more. My guess is the "real camera" manufacturers are looking very hard at computational stuff, and if somebody puts in into a real camera, there will soon be a technology avalanche. I think they might all be waiting for somebody else to introduce it first.
The real problem for camera manufacturers here is the vast amount of resources that are going into cell phone cameras vs their cameras. It's not remotely comparable. Which is why whoever doesn't get enough marketshare will start falling by the wayside.
 
as long as it is not a phone
Like saying: Picasso? Well depends on which brush he used. Beatles? Who knows, they might not have used a proper Sennheiser microphone...
If Picasso was using a brush a foot wide...if the Beatles were recording to wax cylinders....

Even artists cans be hampered by poor tools
 

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