Teleconvertor 1.4x vs asp-c vs higher Mpx FF

[ArturFromRiga]

Good day dear fellows. Asking for advice...

Photo for me is a hobby. have 7d mk1, 5d mk3, plus a bunch of lenses bought used on eBay.

Recently I bought 100-400 mkII. 400mm feels short on FF (5dmk3), I have old 7d mk1, and 400mm on it feels about right. However, I cannot stand 7d binding, shadow noise, and high iso IQ.

What do you think is the best way to move forward to get better reach for birdies?

1) Buy teleconverter 1.4x and use 5d mk3 + 1.4x & ef 100-400mkii?

2) buy 7d mk II (I hear quality, even though being a crop, is on par with 5d mk3)?

3) buy 5d mk4 (higher resolution, ef 100-400 mk II has good resolving power, so cropping will do "zooming"

Pleased to hear your thoughts.

Artur

 

[WindwardHaole]

Artur, I would go for an APS-C body before I would use a TC. If you do buy a Canon TC, EX I and II are the same optical formula. IQ from Extender EF 1.4X III is better but 100-400 L II will not auto focus with 1.4X III.

 

[Sittatunga]

1) Buy teleconverter 1.4x and use 5d mk3 + 1.4x & ef 100-400mkii?

The 5D IV will autofocus at f/8 with the central one of its 61 AF points. The 5D III needs to be upgraded to firmware V 1.2.1 to do that. Neither camera will be able to track birds in flight unless you can keep them centred on the central focus point. The Extenders 1.4 and 1.4 II share the same glass, the 1.4 III is an improvement.

An R7 would be a definite improvement over what you've got, focussing and tracking over the majority of the screen even with a 2x Extender. Its 32Mpx sensor should be much better for noise, sharpness and pixels per bird than either of the 7D models. An R5, R6 or R6 II, would also have greatly improved focussing and tracking, but it sounds as if you would definitely need the 1.4x EF extender between lens and mount adapter.

 

[ArturFromRiga]

Artur, I would go for an APS-C body before I would use a TC. If you do buy a Canon TC, EX I and II are the same optical formula. IQ from Extender EF 1.4X III is better but 100-400 L II will not auto focus with 1.4X III.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I have to disagree regarding autofocusing with 1.4x:

//quote

Note that an f/8 max aperture lens plus extender combo will only autofocus using native through-the-viewfinder phase detection AF when mounted to 1-Series and select other EOS cameras including the 5D Mark III and the 7D Mark II. (www.the-digital-picture.com )

//unquote

so 100-400L II & 1.4x III willl focus on 5d mk iii, iv and even 7D mk II. Price of 1.4x almost equals to 7d mkII, so indeed getting 7dmk II could be a nice option indeed.

 

[John Crowe]

No 1 will give you no advantage.

The 7D II is a good alternative but the MP is very low compared to the 90D or R7. There are many discussions comparing AF between all three. The sensor in the 90D, R7, or M6 II for that matter, would provide a huge improvement in IQ if you feel that AF will be good enough.

Even with a 5D IV you would still need a 1.4x. The only FF that have enough MP to make up the difference are the 5DSR and R5. The R5 is expensive and you may not be happy with the AF of the 5DSR.

I would research the 90D or M6 II to see if they will AF well for you.

 

[Sittatunga]

No 1 will give you no advantage.

The 7D II is a good alternative but the MP is very low compared to the 90D or R7. There are many discussions comparing AF between all three. The sensor in the 90D, R7, or M6 II for that matter, would provide a huge improvement in IQ if you feel that AF will be good enough.

Even with a 5D IV you would still need a 1.4x. The only FF that have enough MP to make up the difference are the 5DSR and R5. The R5 is expensive and you may not be happy with the AF of the 5DSR.

The 5Ds and 5DsR should have very similar AF to the 5D III (only the centre shoot giving AF at f/8), because, apart from the sensor (which gives them the pixel density of a 19Mpx APS-C camera), they are basically a 5D 3½. Having said that, and not being a bird photographer, I much prefer the AF of the basic R.

I would research the 90D or M6 II to see if they will AF well for you.

 

[John Crowe]

Yes, which gives the 5DSR a pixel advantage over the 7D/7D II, which multiplies further with a 1.4x. Then consider the situations when you do fill the frame and you get the astounding detail that 50MP brings.

Yes, AF and noise between 5DIV and 5DSR is very similar. It is the 7DII that is said to have a distinct advantage. The 90D, M6II, and R7 will also be better but not sure if as good as 7DII.

With my regular shooting situations I have chosen to stick with the 5DSR, and purchase longer lenses over buying an R7. With motorsports I am able to fill the 50MP frame and AF is excellent. It is phenomenal for perched birds but I have only just started shooting birds in flight. I have a lot of work to do on my patience and skill to even find out if the AF can do the job. I know it will work as a bird leaves a branch with no other branches interfering. I am not sure that it will work for trickier situations.

 

[Kjeld Olesen]

Photo for me is a hobby. have 7d mk1, 5d mk3, ...

As a hobby, do you need all those pixels - did you consider just cropping the image from the 5D mkIII?

Best way to improve autofocus for birds in flight would be to get an EOS R though.

 

[Emphyrio2]

Hi ArturfromRiga,

I have similar gear and had some of the same questions regarding best gear combinations for birding.

In general, I like the to use the 7D without the 1.4x converter for walk around birding without a tripod or monopod.


Eastern Phoebe

The 7Dii will of course unlock capability to produce superior results.

But if I am setting up with a tripod I much prefer the combination of 5DSR with 400 mm prime and converter. Surprisingly, shooting at f8 does not destroy the background.

Here is a link to some photos I captured with that combination on January 1 2022:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65796447

Emphyrio2

 

[ArturFromRiga]

Photo for me is a hobby. have 7d mk1, 5d mk3, ...

As a hobby, do you need all those pixels - did you consider just cropping the image from the 5D mkIII?

Best way to improve autofocus for birds in flight would be to get an EOS R though.

Cropping would be the cheapest and the easiest...but as I wrote 5dmk3 + 400mm doesn't provide enough reach even if I crop....so that is why I came to the question I am asking.

 

[jerste]

easy answer - buy r7, no teleconverters

 

[Abbott Schindler]

1) Buy teleconverter 1.4x and use 5d mk3 + 1.4x & ef 100-400mkii?

This is OK for reach, but be aware that AF will be slower with the Extender, and your 5D3 may end up being able to AF with only the center point, which I find very hard to use for birds. I prefer a FF sensor because it gives more composition freedom: you can crop to position the subject better in the frame.

2) buy 7d mk II (I hear quality, even though being a crop, is on par with 5d mk3)?

Better option than 1 because of better AF. However, the viewfinder will be a bit dimmer and you'll have to get used to it feeling different than a FF finder; it's a little like looking through a tunnel, but easily adapted to. Also, the 7's shutter is much quieter than the 5's (including the 5D IV), which for me made a big difference when photographing wildlife (they hear the shutter and react to it).

3) buy 5d mk4 (higher resolution, ef 100-400 mk II has good resolving power, so cropping will do "zooming"

This is how I'd go. I had 5D IV and 7D II before getting my R5 (which would be an even better option for you, but much more expensive). While 7D II AF might be a little faster (because it covers a smaller area), 5D IV was fine for me. Again, though, the 7's shutter is quieter, which might impact you.

If you can afford it, consider moving to one of the R bodies. You'll have faster, more effective AF, eliminate mirror shake, noise characteristics will be a bit better, and other things. I still have a 5D IV, but use it strictly on a dedicated macro setup I have, and also for astro (better battery life than my R5's, and I find the optical VF a bit easier to use at night than the EVF, but I'm learning...).

 

[Trevor Sowers]

Good day dear fellows. Asking for advice...

Photo for me is a hobby. have 7d mk1, 5d mk3, plus a bunch of lenses bought used on eBay.

Recently I bought 100-400 mkII. 400mm feels short on FF (5dmk3), I have old 7d mk1, and 400mm on it feels about right. However, I cannot stand 7d binding, shadow noise, and high iso IQ.

What do you think is the best way to move forward to get better reach for birdies?

1) Buy teleconverter 1.4x and use 5d mk3 + 1.4x & ef 100-400mkii?

I had excellent results with the 5D MKIII and EF 400mm f/5.6 with EF 1.4 III. The IQ was excellent and auto focus was slower but worked well and it was centre point only.

2) buy 7d mk II (I hear quality, even though being a crop, is on par with 5d mk3)?

7D MKII worked well with my EF 400mm f/5.6 but the AF on it was not reliable enough so I sold it.

3) buy 5d mk4 (higher resolution, ef 100-400 mk II has good resolving power, so cropping will do "zooming"

I'm now using a 5D MKIV and it's AF is better than the 7D MKII !!! The downside is that the EF 1.4III doesn't look great with this body and I'm guessing that the higher resolution just is too much and I'm better off just cropping.

I'm thinking of selling the teleconverter now and just learning to live with 400mm

Pleased to hear your thoughts.

Artur

 

[Trevor Sowers]

Good day dear fellows. Asking for advice...

Photo for me is a hobby. have 7d mk1, 5d mk3, plus a bunch of lenses bought used on eBay.

Recently I bought 100-400 mkII. 400mm feels short on FF (5dmk3), I have old 7d mk1, and 400mm on it feels about right. However, I cannot stand 7d binding, shadow noise, and high iso IQ.

What do you think is the best way to move forward to get better reach for birdies?

1) Buy teleconverter 1.4x and use 5d mk3 + 1.4x & ef 100-400mkii?

I had excellent results with the 5D MKIII and EF 400mm f/5.6 with EF 1.4 III. The IQ was excellent and auto focus was slower but worked well and it was centre point only.

2) buy 7d mk II (I hear quality, even though being a crop, is on par with 5d mk3)?

7D MKII worked well with my EF 400mm f/5.6 but the AF on it was not reliable enough so I sold it.

3) buy 5d mk4 (higher resolution, ef 100-400 mk II has good resolving power, so cropping will do "zooming"

I'm now using a 5D MKIV and it's AF is better than the 7D MKII !!! The downside is that the EF 1.4III doesn't look great with this body and I'm guessing that the higher resolution just is too much and I'm better off just cropping.

I'm thinking of selling the teleconverter now and just learning to live with 400mm

Actually this weekend I got some nice shots with the 5D MKIV with the 400mm and 1.4 teleconverter so i guess I won't be selling it LOL. It is definitely tricky to get the most from that combo but it does work!

https://flic.kr/p/2omNq9U

Pleased to hear your thoughts.

Artur

 

[John Crowe]

I am glad you persevered because it should be an excellent combo. The EF 100-400 IS II would perform very similarly with the EF 1.4X III, but should have newer and better AF. Still limited to the same focus points though.

Interesting to hear that you feel the 5DIV AF was better than the 7D II.

 

[Trevor Sowers]

I am glad you persevered because it should be an excellent combo. The EF 100-400 IS II would perform very similarly with the EF 1.4X III, but should have newer and better AF. Still limited to the same focus points though.

Interesting to hear that you feel the 5DIV AF was better than the 7D II.

Yes the 7D MKII was sold. With the 400mm shooting action the 5D MKIV was slightly better but when using my shorter primes like my 35L or 50L the 7D MKII was unacceptable for me. I really like the 7D MII in other aspects however and I was reluctant to sell it. No regrets though as the 5D MKIV does everything better.

 

[ArturFromRiga]

1) Buy teleconverter 1.4x and use 5d mk3 + 1.4x & ef 100-400mkii?

This is OK for reach, but be aware that AF will be slower with the Extender, and your 5D3 may end up being able to AF with only the center point, which I find very hard to use for birds. I prefer a FF sensor because it gives more composition freedom: you can crop to position the subject better in the frame.

2) buy 7d mk II (I hear quality, even though being a crop, is on par with 5d mk3)?

Better option than 1 because of better AF. However, the viewfinder will be a bit dimmer and you'll have to get used to it feeling different than a FF finder; it's a little like looking through a tunnel, but easily adapted to. Also, the 7's shutter is much quieter than the 5's (including the 5D IV), which for me made a big difference when photographing wildlife (they hear the shutter and react to it).

3) buy 5d mk4 (higher resolution, ef 100-400 mk II has good resolving power, so cropping will do "zooming"

This is how I'd go. I had 5D IV and 7D II before getting my R5 (which would be an even better option for you, but much more expensive). While 7D II AF might be a little faster (because it covers a smaller area), 5D IV was fine for me. Again, though, the 7's shutter is quieter, which might impact you.

If you can afford it, consider moving to one of the R bodies. You'll have faster, more effective AF, eliminate mirror shake, noise characteristics will be a bit better, and other things. I still have a 5D IV, but use it strictly on a dedicated macro setup I have, and also for astro (better battery life than my R5's, and I find the optical VF a bit easier to use at night than the EVF, but I'm learning...).

Thank you for detailed reply.

 

[Le Kilt]

You nearly always get more pixels on your duck with an APS-C sensor if the subject doesn't fill the full frame.

5DIV cropped : 30 Mp / 1.6x1.6 = 11.7 Mp

5DSR cropped : 51 Mp / 1.6x1.6 = 19.9 Mp

7DII : 20 Mp

90D : 33 Mp

R7 : 33 Mp

Personally I have a 5DIV, and got a 90D + 100-400L II for the distant stuff, and a 1.4xIII extender nearly always on that combo and works well.

The 1.4x III extender has a faster microprocessor in it compared to 1.4xII. They adjust the focussing 'instructions' to the lens, so the faster the better.

I then recently got the R7, and the focussing is mind-blowing even with EF lenses. It's Canon's state of the art AF, and can recognise and track a bird in flight and focus on its eye! There has been a huge leap forward in AF, particularly in the latest R models.

So now my 100-400 II lives on the R7, often with the 1.4xIII as well. The R7 may not be perfect, but there is probably no better AF around at the moment. R3 and R6II AF are virtually the same I believe.

A 90D could be a good deal at the moment, and go for the R7 when the budget allows.

Happy shooting !

 

[ArturFromRiga]

You nearly always get more pixels on your duck with an APS-C sensor if the subject doesn't fill the full frame.

5DIV cropped : 30 Mp / 1.6x1.6 = 11.7 Mp

5DSR cropped : 51 Mp / 1.6x1.6 = 19.9 Mp

7DII : 20 Mp

90D : 33 Mp

R7 : 33 Mp

Personally I have a 5DIV, and got a 90D + 100-400L II for the distant stuff, and a 1.4xIII extender nearly always on that combo and works well.

The 1.4x III extender has a faster microprocessor in it compared to 1.4xII. They adjust the focussing 'instructions' to the lens, so the faster the better.

I then recently got the R7, and the focussing is mind-blowing even with EF lenses. It's Canon's state of the art AF, and can recognise and track a bird in flight and focus on its eye! There has been a huge leap forward in AF, particularly in the latest R models.

So now my 100-400 II lives on the R7, often with the 1.4xIII as well. The R7 may not be perfect, but there is probably no better AF around at the moment. R3 and R6II AF are virtually the same I believe.

A 90D could be a good deal at the moment, and go for the R7 when the budget allows.

Happy shooting !

Thank you Le Kilt for writing up. My budget was only for 7DII or 1.4x before I started this thread...now it is stretching more and more to accommodate R7

 

[rmexpress22]

I think the R7 would be the best option also. Newer tech, excellent AF, and most EF lenses work even better on newer R-series bodies.