Starting from Scratch - Recommend a Lense Set?

[ahaslett]

For anyone who has experience of product and technology strategy we know we don’t know. Also we suspect that OMD may be thinking about market segments which don’t read DPR.

One potentially interesting market is multiple system users. MFT has a lot of respect amongst FF mirrorless users. Probably not a sustainable market on its own, but a common theme on the FE forum when people are thinking of moving to FF is “don’t sell the MFT kit”, just rationalise it.

For each product development, the MFT OEMs should be asking

- will it attract new users

- will it make sense to a dual system user

- will it stop an MFT user switching to another system

The answer to the last will rarely be YES.

Those are on top of the base question of whether it will fill a need for enough existing MFT users, who are a small part of the ILC market.

I’d see the Panasonic 10-25/1.7 as being a well-chosen product. The 12-45/4, 12-100/4 and tele lenses are also unique. Olympus seem to have had a strange view of their products. Once Sony started to drive mirrorless sensor innovation and opened E mount to third parties, MFT had new competition.

A mini A9 would be very interesting as a Wow camera and the lenses already exist to support it. A lightly used EM1.2 or G9 is very affordable as an entry point into MFT for an existing photographer. After all, it’s lenses that cost the money.

I was out with my EM1.1 and 20/1.7 yesterday, remembering why I dislike big bodies with big batteries, dual card slots etc. Took lots of keepers of the 4 month old grand-daughter, her mother and Santa on Monday with the GM1 and 12-32 with pop up flash.

Yes, the A7R4 goes on dedicated landscape expeditions with fast zooms, tripod and filters. Yes the Samsung S20 takes good pictures up to a point, better than any P&S film camera I ever owned.

Andrew

I like your analysis because it highlights the importance of differentiating mFT from the rest of the market. OMS is clearly using the "Breakfree" campaign to build on perceived strengths of the system, and you're pointing out another.
Personally, what I find compelling is the mix-and-match possibilities of mFT, from essentially pocketable to full-blown EM1X + 150-400 superzoom. I just picked up the E-P7 for the same reason you're using the GM1 ... pics of the granddaughter. And what is absolutely marvelous about mFT is that the same 75/1.8 will work on every camera body I own.

Maybe Sony can pull off that trick with the A7, but for now mFT really has a lot to offer as long as one understands it's relative strengths and weaknesses.

I view it as my main system and very cost effective. If the OEMs want more of my money, they are going to have to produce something differentiated and compelling. The EM1.3 wasn’t quite there and Panasonic design bodies that don’t suit me.

Andrew

 

[Gary from Seattle]

Certain that the OP is aware, but it hasn't been mentioned, Olympus is having some holiday savings right now, with $400 off the E-M1 MIII body and $200 off the 12-40 f/2.8 pro lens.

I used the opportunity to upgrade my hiking/travel kit from the G85 with 12-60 kit lens which has been a fantastic and lightweight kit. The new Oly kit just a bit heavier, but with more features and a faster lens. Looking forward to getting out over the holidays.

I will say the Oly menu system is a bit complex and not always intuitive, but I'll take on the challenge.

OMD is having a fire sale, which may be concerning. Companies liquidate products for two reasons:

1) They have replacement products coming out soon therefore OMD want to move existing inventory before they are stuck with it. Reason being, nobody wants the previous generation. Remember, the name Olympus is discontinued, they want OMD as the manufacture name on every product. I would expect a firmware update on all supported cameras that simply remove the word "Olympus" from its code in 2022. If they don't do that, then I would expect the EM5.m3 and EM1.m3 to be generally discontinued quickly unless all new manufactured products are simply stripping the name from the camera body.

2) OMD are existing the camera business but don't want to say that.

?

Because if they announced an exit, everyone would expect product to be 50-60% discounted and not the present discount rate.

I believe they are adjusting their product mix to their publicized new philosophy. Your comment here is just hyperbole.

Their new product teaser was for the most part a large failure. No real images of what is to come. It was a "please wait, we are coming" tease. I viewed it as you are late by 45 minutes to your 1st date, so you call ahead asking that person stay because still stuck in traffic.

Duh. So, you think you should have full specs for a newly designed camera before the design is perfected and it is ready for production.

Patience is wearing thin.

Suggest you keep your pants on.

 

[Gary from Seattle]

Second, just because the lens reads f/0.95 doesn't mean you're getting f/0.95. Check out this thread

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/63376762

In a nutshell, the microlens array on a typical sensor begin to limit somewhere in the range f/2 to f/1.2. Measurements confirm this. There appears to be little benefit to using f/numbers smaller than f/1.2 on Olympus cameras.

It's a MFT lens so need to factor in the crop 2x. f0.95 behaves closer to f1.4 on FF. That is still lower than f1.2 on oly lens which behaves closer to f1.8 on FF.

Regarding adding softness to an image in post - yes that is an option but some prefer (including myself) to have the lens achieve this. This is why adapting 35mm film lenses on digital camera bodies are so popular. The issue with that is, the 35mm film lens imperfections are also captured in the image because they were designed for film, not high resolution digital sensors.

If you want softness in an image just venture into diffraction. Shoot at F16 or F22 and you will have junk.

 

[Gary from Seattle]

If I were starting from scratch, I would get a Pen F (if you can find one). I use mine all the time for traveling and backpacking. It’s probably my most used body. The focus isn’t that fast, but for most of the stuff I’m shooting while backpacking, it is fine. The Pen would be a nice body to have and a great traveling/backpacking addition to your collection. Then wait to see whatever the “wow” camera is and make up your mind then.

Then I would add the pro 17mm 1.2, 25mm 1.2 and 45mm 1.2. The 45 is a great portrait lens if you know how to use it. Same goes with the 25 and 17. I have a MK III and a 300 f4 for birding, but I don’t take that with me backpacking much.

Later on down the line, the 40-150mm 2.8 is also a nice to have it has pretty good bokeh and is is definitely useful for all my paid stuff. I’ve been trying to get away from using my zooms too much though because even at 2.8 they don’t get me the DOF that I want, so I find myself shooting with the primes all the time now. The other pro 2.8 lenses are good to have, but in my opinion, not a must.

If you are shooting backpacking, then I would assume you are in a beautiful place. If so, more DOF is generally better than less DOF because all is beautiful and contributes to an image's value. I would use shallow DOF to de-emphasize certain uninteresting parts of an image. (Birding is clearly different.) But the focal lengths you cite for your primes are typical for landscape imaging. Still, it is much easier and sometimes (often) only possible to compose certain landscape images by cropping the image. Many landscape images don't work well at 12mm or 14mm because of distractions on the bottom, top, or edges of an image. A zoom makes this process not only far easier, but also more effective in cropping to view slightly different compositions. In hiking/backpacking imaging, precise framing is often not possible by moving one's position logistically. But a zoom lens can often overcome this problem in maximizing a composition's value.

 

[ikolbyi]

the point is whether you're getting any advantage to using an f/0.95 versus an f/1.2 or f/1.4 on an mFT camera.

Their comes a level that not enough of the image is in focus due to DOF to recognize what the image is.

I have found f/0.95 - f/1.2 almost useless because they are 'too shallow' to be useful (personal taste). Regarding light transmission from f1.2 being equivalent to f/1.8 per the article you linked earlier:

Loading…

www.dxomark.com

"The Olympus 25mm f/1.2’s super-fast maximum f/1.2 aperture and excellent light transmission of 1.8 TStop"

I learned something new. Thank you.

 

[Jeff]

the point is whether you're getting any advantage to using an f/0.95 versus an f/1.2 or f/1.4 on an mFT camera.

Their comes a level that not enough of the image is in focus due to DOF to recognize what the image is.

I have found f/0.95 - f/1.2 almost useless because they are 'too shallow' to be useful (personal taste). Regarding light transmission from f1.2 being equivalent to f/1.8 per the article you linked earlier:

https://www.dxomark.com/olympus-m.zuiko-digital-ed-25mm-f-1.2-pro-lens-review-solid-choice

"The Olympus 25mm f/1.2’s super-fast maximum f/1.2 aperture and excellent light transmission of 1.8 TStop"

I learned something new. Thank you.

Glad that was useful.

Just to be clear, what this is say is that the 25/1.2 lens delivers (well, supposed to deliver if the microlens array can handle it) is depth of field associated with an f/1.2 aperture, but the light associated with an f/1.8 aperture.

 

[jimkahnw]

I am a minimalist. I find I can be effective with just an EM5 III and the LUMIX 12-60mm f/2.8-4 zoom. I carry an extra battery and if I were backpacking I would consider a solar charger or several more batteries. Extra cards, too.

I added an after market grip, but it adds a little bulk and weight. The Oly grip is much larger.

Let us know what you decide; post your kit to this thread.

 

[TorsteinH]

Second, just because the lens reads f/0.95 doesn't mean you're getting f/0.95. Check out this thread

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/63376762

In a nutshell, the microlens array on a typical sensor begin to limit somewhere in the range f/2 to f/1.2. Measurements confirm this. There appears to be little benefit to using f/numbers smaller than f/1.2 on Olympus cameras.

It's a MFT lens so need to factor in the crop 2x. f0.95 behaves closer to f1.4 on FF.

please explain as f numbers are constant

That is still lower than f1.2 on oly lens which behaves closer to f1.8 on FF.

Regarding adding softness to an image in post - yes that is an option but some prefer (including myself) to have the lens achieve this. This is why adapting 35mm film lenses on digital camera bodies are so popular. The issue with that is, the 35mm film lens imperfections are also captured in the image because they were designed for film, not high resolution digital sensors.

for example, a 45mm F/1.8 MFT lens will behave similar to a 90mm f/2.8 on full-frame camera/lens due to the sensor size/lens combination.

Here is quick video that shows side-by-side examples: https://fstoppers.com/education/ful...size-affect-depth-field-388556#comment-thread

in the f2.8 side-by-side comparison, the FF image will have more background blur. If the MFT was shot at f1.8 vs FF f2.8, they would look more similar.

This is DoF not f number

f number is 1 of 3 factors that impact DOF.

But the f number remains constant

Th opening ( f/number ) is surely constant on a lens with the same focal length as it's just the relation between the focal length and the opening. But there are other factors regarding exposure, like how much light is lost in the lens. In cinematic lenses they often measure that in T stops. Typically, a f/1.8 lens will have a t/stop at f/2.0 or thereabout.

In addition there is microlenses on the sensor stack, that according to Jcobly also limits how much light that reach your sensor's photo diodes.