Stacked-sensor w/ GLOBAL-shutter

[PhotoTeach2]

I do not understand the technology of eithef one.

I recognize that stacked-sensors are now becomming standard and I appreciate the higher frame rate.

But i wonder if the SS technology can be combined w/ global-shutter, (to eliminate jello-effect and alliw unlimited flash-sync) ???

 

[martinhb]

I do not understand the technology of eithef one.

I recognize that stacked-sensors are now becomming standard and I appreciate the higher frame rate.

But i wonder if the SS technology can be combined w/ global-shutter, (to eliminate jello-effect and alliw unlimited flash-sync) ???

With a rolling shutter exposure timing is different line by line with reset and readout happening at shifted times.

With a global shutter sensor all pixels begin and end exposure at the same time.

These two links to Lucid Vision labs explain the difference :

https://thinklucid.com/tech-briefs/understanding-digital-image-sensors/

https://thinklucid.com/tech-briefs/sony-pregius/

 

[PhotoTeach2]

I do not understand the technology of eithef one.

I recognize that stacked-sensors are now becomming standard and I appreciate the higher frame rate.

But i wonder if the SS technology can be combined w/ global-shutter, (to eliminate jello-effect and alliw unlimited flash-sync) ???

With a rolling shutter exposure timing is different line by line with reset and readout happening at shifted times.

With a global shutter sensor all pixels begin and end exposure at the same time.

These two links to Lucid Vision labs explain the difference :

https://thinklucid.com/tech-briefs/understanding-digital-image-sensors/

https://thinklucid.com/tech-briefs/sony-pregius/

Thank you for your response, but with all due respect, I knew that much.

And an interesting in the Pregius, but it is only a small and very low-mpx, (currently limited to some commercial applications).

I am just wondering if, (in the future), is there anything specifically that would not allow "both" (technologies) in the same sensor, (up to FF size). I see advantages to both.

We have been waiting for (affordable) global-shutters as the holy-grail for a long time, (no "jello"-effect and unlimited flash-sync SS).

But I also see value in the higher, (30+), frame-rates of stacked-sensors.

So personally I want both ... is it possible ???

 

[martinhb]

PhotoTeach2 wrote

I do not understand the technology of eithef one.

Ok.

I recognize that stacked-sensors are now becomming standard and I appreciate the higher frame rate.

But i wonder if the SS technology can be combined w/ global-shutter, (to eliminate jello-effect and alliw unlimited flash-sync) ???

With a rolling shutter exposure timing is different line by line with reset and readout happening at shifted times.

With a global shutter sensor all pixels begin and end exposure at the same time.

These two links to Lucid Vision labs explain the difference :

https://thinklucid.com/tech-briefs/understanding-digital-image-sensors/

https://thinklucid.com/tech-briefs/sony-pregius/

Thank you for your response, but with all due respect, I knew that much.

And an interesting in the Pregius, but it is only a small and very low-mpx, (currently limited to some commercial applications).

I am just wondering if, (in the future), is there anything specifically that would not allow "both" (technologies) in the same sensor, (up to FF size). I see advantages to both.

We have been waiting for (affordable) global-shutters as the holy-grail for a long time, (no "jello"-effect and unlimited flash-sync SS).

But I also see value in the higher, (30+), frame-rates of stacked-sensors.

So personally I want both ... is it possible ???

Me too, maybe there's a quntum leap with Gigajot & consumer market demand, but then the same goes for Sony's Preguis.

There's an old Canadian saying ...... It's the squeaky wheel that gets the grease.

Guess I'll just keep hanging in there.

 

[MCLV]

I do not understand the technology of eithef one.

I recognize that stacked-sensors are now becomming standard and I appreciate the higher frame rate.

But i wonder if the SS technology can be combined w/ global-shutter, (to eliminate jello-effect and alliw unlimited flash-sync) ???

Sensors with global shutter and high refresh rate are used in cinema cameras, see this https://ymcinema.com/2022/12/26/canon-presents-new-5-7k-60fps-full-frame-global-shutter-cmos-sensor/

As I understood it, global shutter sensors have some additional per pixel circuitry to store the charge before it's read out. It's possible that the read out could be sped up by using a stacked sensor technology but I'm not sure.

Global shutter also has some negative effects on image quality. I guess this might be the reason why they are not used in photography cameras.

Anyway, it's likely that readout speed of stacked sensors will gradually increase withfurther development so the need for introducing global shutter will decrease over time.

 

[PhotoTeach2]

I do not understand the technology of eithef one.

I recognize that stacked-sensors are now becomming standard and I appreciate the higher frame rate.

But i wonder if the SS technology can be combined w/ global-shutter, (to eliminate jello-effect and alliw unlimited flash-sync) ???

Sensors with global shutter and high refresh rate are used in cinema cameras, see this https://ymcinema.com/2022/12/26/canon-presents-new-5-7k-60fps-full-frame-global-shutter-cmos-sensor/

As I understood it, global shutter sensors have some additional per pixel circuitry to store the charge before it's read out. It's possible that the read out could be sped up by using a stacked sensor technology but I'm not sure.

Global shutter also has some negative effects on image quality. I guess this might be the reason why they are not used in photography cameras.

Anyway, it's likely that readout speed of stacked sensors will gradually increase withfurther development so the need for introducing global shutter will decrease over time.

Thanks

 

[PhotoTeach2]

PhotoTeach2 wrote

I do not understand the technology of eithef one.

Ok.

I recognize that stacked-sensors are now becomming standard and I appreciate the higher frame rate.

But i wonder if the SS technology can be combined w/ global-shutter, (to eliminate jello-effect and alliw unlimited flash-sync) ???

With a rolling shutter exposure timing is different line by line with reset and readout happening at shifted times.

With a global shutter sensor all pixels begin and end exposure at the same time.

These two links to Lucid Vision labs explain the difference :

https://thinklucid.com/tech-briefs/understanding-digital-image-sensors/

https://thinklucid.com/tech-briefs/sony-pregius/

Thank you for your response, but with all due respect, I knew that much.

And an interesting in the Pregius, but it is only a small and very low-mpx, (currently limited to some commercial applications).

I am just wondering if, (in the future), is there anything specifically that would not allow "both" (technologies) in the same sensor, (up to FF size). I see advantages to both.

We have been waiting for (affordable) global-shutters as the holy-grail for a long time, (no "jello"-effect and unlimited flash-sync SS).

But I also see value in the higher, (30+), frame-rates of stacked-sensors.

So personally I want both ... is it possible ???

Me too, maybe there's a quntum leap with Gigajot & consumer market demand, but then the same goes for Sony's Preguis.

There's an old Canadian saying ...... It's the squeaky wheel that gets the grease.

Guess I'll just keep hanging in there.

Thanks

 

[Eric Fossum]

But i wonder if the SS technology can be combined w/ global-shutter, (to eliminate jello-effect and alliw unlimited flash-sync) ???

Yes, of course that is possible. I think this is more limited by development costs and ROI. Stacked sensor design is complicated and NRE costs are high for tape outs and fab runs. Plus many fabs are running at capacity so there is some obstacle to developing new technologies. Global shutter devices often suffer from higher read noise, and for BSI, getting good shutter efficiency can be a challlenge. Stacking and in-pixel adc could help that. I wouldn't be surprised to see some architectural changes coming over the next 5 years. Unfortunately only the big companies with fab leverage and deep pockets can play at this game, and they have to be motivated by ROI, which is usually a loser for most cameras except those with very high volume.

 

[PhotoTeach2]

But i wonder if the SS technology can be combined w/ global-shutter, (to eliminate jello-effect and alliw unlimited flash-sync) ???

Yes, of course that is possible. I think this is more limited by development costs and ROI. Stacked sensor design is complicated and NRE costs are high for tape outs and fab runs. Plus many fabs are running at capacity so there is some obstacle to developing new technologies. Global shutter devices often suffer from higher read noise, and for BSI, getting good shutter efficiency can be a challlenge. Stacking and in-pixel adc could help that. I wouldn't be surprised to see some architectural changes coming over the next 5 years. Unfortunately only the big companies with fab leverage and deep pockets can play at this game, and they have to be motivated by ROI, which is usually a loser for most cameras except those with very high volume.

Thanks