Spyder3Print SR device vs. Spyder3Print device

[dismalhiker]

If Colorvision is any example then I would have to agree. When I think back on my days using ProfilerPlus (with an IT-8 calibrated flatbed scanner as the "measuring" device), I still had to adjust the profiles. Recent comments, though, by Bob P would seem to suggest that the Colormunki requires less of this sort of thing. I won't try to compare that or the S3P to an i1Photo Pro, but in all the forums I participate in I can't say I've seen many posts at all talking about having to tweak i1 profiles. And if Bob is right about the -munki then maybe it's something about Datacolor's process that has a lower percentage of success with generated profiles.

The luminosity for both Moab Lasal and Ilford Classic Pearl, BTW, are right on the button. Go figure.

I would be interested in hearing more about this. I too have had multiple generations of Spyders (1, 2 and 3), Monaco profiler and other products. I did a fair amount of 'research' on boards, blogs and reviews recently, precisely because I was wavering between getting Spyder3Elite Studio vs. Colormunki. After reading lots of reviews, my overall impression led me to get the Datacolor product. I have to admit that this was a purchase that I wasn't sure about.

My printers are an Epson 3880 and Epson SP2200. I wonder if the Datacolor product performs better with some printer brands than others?

Anyway, I guess because of the factors that you mentioned (different paper characteristics, etc.) my expectation was to have to tweak profiles. So I'm pleasantly surprised when I don't have to.

Thanks,
John

--

http://www.flickr.com/dismalhiker
http://ouachita.dismalhiker.org/

 

[Dominic.Chan]

My printers are an Epson 3880 and Epson SP2200. I wonder if the Datacolor product performs better with some printer brands than others?

I have no problems producing good profiles for the 3800 (OEM ink), using Pulse ColorElite, i1 Match, or SP3. I had great difficulty get a decent profile on my Artisan 810 (cheap 3rd party ink), with the same packages.

Overal, the spectro-based packages do have higher success rates for more challenging systems, e.g., if the ink is metamerismic (with noticeable colour shifts under different lights), or if the paper has a high content of optical brighterning agents.

 

[Petruska]

I'll make you profiles (FREE) using my X-rite Pulse Color Elite (very close to the current I1 Pro) for comparison to the Spyder.

Send me an email....

[email protected]

There is a mint Pulse Color Elite system on auction at Ebay if anyone is interested.

They are not supported directly by Windows 7 but run just fine using Windows Virtual XP mode within Win 7.

It's currently 8PM eastern time, and the auction has 4 more hours to go, it's bid up to $300.

It will go much higher in the last 5 seconds of bidding. The word is out that these are great profiling systems at a low price.....

I love these Pulses, I have yet to edit a profile, I get an extremely good match of print to monitor using a NEC monitor with their Spectraview II cal software.

I own 3 Pulse systems (one I ruined taking it apart to replace the battery, 16 little colored lenses fell out) as I was afraid they would disappear and I see no reason to buy anything else seeing the results I get for the cost.

Bob P.

 

[Dominic.Chan]

I own 3 Pulse systems (one I ruined taking it apart to replace the battery, 16 little colored lenses fell out) as I was afraid they would disappear and I see no reason to buy anything else seeing the results I get for the cost.

If you still have all the parts, you may be able to put them back together.

My had a problem with fogged lenses (a generic problem with the Pulse, from the package foam), and took it apart and reassembled it). I don't remember the details as it was a few years ago, but I don't think it was too hard once you know about these small pieces.

 

[tony22]

I'll make you profiles (FREE) using my X-rite Pulse Color Elite (very close to the current I1 Pro) for comparison to the Spyder.

Send me an email....

Bob, thank you. I'll shoot you a note and we'll discuss.

I know you've commented on this before, but once again since we're dealing with the subject - have you found as much need to adjust the initial profiles from the Colormunki as you had with the S3P SR?

 

[Petruska]

In a way it's a bad design with the Pulse that when you take the case apart, the lens portion can come way from the body, these 16 lenses are held in cavities in a circular rubber piece, which doesn't grip them well. The colored lenses are a combination of 4 colors if I remember, but the 4 pieces of each color are slightly different shades and there is a difference between looking through the top or bottom and that is hard to determine which is the top or bottom. Even if I opened up a good Pulse and used it for comparison I don't know how I would determine the shade differences and the top/bottom issue. Obviously the extremely subtle shades need to be in the correct locations to filter the correct light with matching sensors and electroics, two lenses switched would not work correctly.

That lens to body attachment should have had a screw or two to keep it together. I was adapting a new battery which I really never used as I always scan theathered with DC power supply attached. The battery wouldn't hold a charge and even though it didn't matter to me, I was bored and elected to adapt a cell phone battery to the Pulse (which worked out ok). When I was putting it back together all these little pieces of colored glass started to fall out....

It was a terrible way to trash a good Pulse. I had to wait a long time for one to show up on Ebay and bought it, then I found a great deal on a new rebadged Xerox one with the additional DTP92 Spectro for monitor calibration, scanning table, DC adapter, cloth case and bought that also. The DTP92 is a great bonus as it is a favorite for use with software to calibrate LCD/Plasma TVs and Projectors.

I like the Pulse that's why I own 2 plus now parts as these are getting more rare on Ebay.

Bob P.

 

[Petruska]

Tony,

I don't own the ColorMunki. Another poster here, irvweiner, and I use the PRO9000 with OCP ink and exchanged profiles, plus comparing the gamut maps, produced identical prints.

I just recommend the ColorMunki for most users as it can calibrate both the monitor and printer at a good price (you need to buy the corect version that does both monitor and printer).

Bob P.

 

[BenHere]

it does seem like it almost needs to be used to tweak a created profile. ... Can you detail what improvements have been incoporated into the latest software release and where we will see those improvements in terms of profile accuracy?

With this update the main addition in profiling is an option in the preferences of selecting the profile to be optimized for either Saturation or Perceptual rendering intent. So if you print mainly out of say Lightroom then you would select Perceptual as there is no Saturation option available in Lightroom. The need can occur, (depending on your inkset and paper combination) to tweak a profile.

Also for Canon printers I would print a 729 patch expert target due to the addition of green and yellow inks. With non-standard CMYK insets the expert targets can make a difference in the profiles overall accuracy. If you are needing to make strong Cyan corrections to the profile then I would recommend creating a support ticket and we can take a look at your measurements, a heavy Cyan tint can indicate that the spectro is not being properly calibrated:
http://support.datacolor.com/...submit&languageid=1&group=colorvision

One problem with the S3P software is that it does not seem to make any attempt to detect misread patches.

It does but the tolerance is fairly high. This is because with the vast ink and paper combinations the correct measurement reading of patches can vary greatly. The recommended way to check your measurements is to toggle between 'Pure' and 'Measured' mode using the 1 and 3 keys (with the measurement window open). Look for patches that do not follow the pattern of change from 'Pure' to 'Measured' mode. An example would be a patch or patches that look out of place in measured mode, say to dark or to light.

--
Ben Vaccaro
Technical Support
Datacolor AG
5 Princess RD,
Lawrenceville, NJ 08648, USA

 

[Dominic.Chan]

One problem with the S3P software is that it does not seem to make any attempt to detect misread patches.

It does but the tolerance is fairly high. This is because with the vast ink and paper combinations the correct measurement reading of patches can vary greatly.

I understand the ink/paper combinations can have vast variations, but the checking should be based on relative values between one patch and its adjacent patches, and a tight tolerance can be used this way.

The recommended way to check your measurements is to toggle between 'Pure' and 'Measured' mode using the 1 and 3 keys (with the measurement window open). Look for patches that do not follow the pattern of change from 'Pure' to 'Measured' mode.

I have already been doing this, but occasionally will still miss a bad patch.

An example would be a patch or patches that look out of place in measured mode, say to dark or to light.

That is exactly the type of check that I was referring to above. The software should be able to do that much faster and more reliably than the user.

 

[tony22]

If you are needing to make strong Cyan corrections to the profile then I would recommend creating a support ticket and we can take a look at your measurements, a heavy Cyan tint can indicate that the spectro is not being properly calibrated:
http://support.datacolor.com/...submit&languageid=1&group=colorvision

Thank you Ben. In fact other of my profiles (including Moab Lasal) require a similar level of Cyan correction. I clicked on the link you provided but I got a 'url not found'.

BTW, I live just about an hour away from you guys and will have some time next week. If there's a way I could just bring up the device I could do that. You can reach me via email once I can access the support link.

 

[BenHere]

BTW, I live just about an hour away from you guys and will have some time next week. If there's a way I could just bring up the device I could do that. You can reach me via email once I can access the support link.

Doing some late night work and I have replied to your support ticket...

One problem with the S3P software is that it does not seem to make any attempt to detect misread patches.

An example would be a patch or patches that look out of place in measured mode, say to dark or to light.

That is exactly the type of check that I was referring to above. The software should be able to do that much faster and more reliably than the user.

This would/does result in a high number of false warnings. But I will get a more thorough explanation from our developer as this was worked on.

--
Ben Vaccaro
Technical Support
Datacolor AG
5 Princess RD,
Lawrenceville, NJ 08648, USA

 

[Dominic.Chan]

An example would be a patch or patches that look out of place in measured mode, say to dark or to light.

That is exactly the type of check that I was referring to above. The software should be able to do that much faster and more reliably than the user.

This would/does result in a high number of false warnings. But I will get a more thorough explanation from our developer as this was worked on.

If the check is implemented properly, there should be no reason for false warnings.