Since D100 CANNOT do wireless TTL flash how do we

[steve818]

use studio strobes with the D100? It is so hopeless using the D100 with the SB80 wirelessly because it does NOT work in TTL mode!! Only manual

what a waste!!

Any ideas from people with solutions to this TTL problem? Any??

Thanks

 

[Don Christolear]

use studio strobes with the D100? It is so hopeless using the D100
with the SB80 wirelessly because it does NOT work in TTL mode!!
Only manual

what a waste!!

Any ideas from people with solutions to this TTL problem? Any??

Thanks

Steve,

I am NOT an electrical expert. As a matter of fact, if it plugs in and I can turn it on then I'm fine

I'm not sure of any camera made that would transmit a TTL signal to a flash remotely. It's my understanding that when the flash comes off the hot shoe, you forfeit that luxury. Unless you had an extremely long cord with a hot shoe on the end....sorry.

Maybe there's one out there and I don't know of it. Somebody here probably will, if it exists.
Don

 

[Duncan C]

Steve,

TTL is a bad idea for studio shooting anyway, even with film cameras where there's no issue with preflashes. Studio flashes don't support TTL metering. You want to put your camera and flashes in manual mode and set your exposure with a flash meter.

Duncan C
----------------

use studio strobes with the D100? It is so hopeless using the D100
with the SB80 wirelessly because it does NOT work in TTL mode!!
Only manual

what a waste!!

Any ideas from people with solutions to this TTL problem? Any??

Thanks

--
http://www.pbase.com/duncanc

 

[Darek]

Canon supports wireless TTL/E-TTL.
With D100 you have to use manual mode only.
Darek

use studio strobes with the D100? It is so hopeless using the D100
with the SB80 wirelessly because it does NOT work in TTL mode!!
Only manual

what a waste!!

Any ideas from people with solutions to this TTL problem? Any??

Thanks

 

[BJN]

I am NOT an electrical expert. As a matter of fact, if it plugs in
and I can turn it on then I'm fine
I'm not sure of any camera made that would transmit a TTL signal to
a flash remotely. It's my understanding that when the flash comes
off the hot shoe, you forfeit that luxury. Unless you had an
extremely long cord with a hot shoe on the end....sorry.
Maybe there's one out there and I don't know of it. Somebody here
probably will, if it exists.

Here's how the Nikon remote TTL works:

The light emitted by the camera-mounted (or built-in) flash triggers the remote units to fire and then the main flash unit transmits a quench signal to the remote units. The quench signal is a modulation of the flash output. No wires needed, similar technology to any IR remote control except the modulation is part of the visible light flash cycle.

--
BJN

 

[Joseph S Wisniewski]

Here's how the Nikon remote TTL works:

The light emitted by the camera-mounted (or built-in) flash
triggers the remote units to fire and then the main flash unit
transmits a quench signal to the remote units.

There's no "quench signal" transmitted by the main flash. As soon as the main flash turns off, the slaves (SB-80, or anything on an SU-4 TTL slave adapter) "quench".

The quench signal is
a modulation of the flash output. No wires needed, similar
technology to any IR remote control except the modulation is part
of the visible light flash cycle.

Actually, because the Nikon slaves look for a simple cutoff, they will work with non-nikon TTL or automatic flashes. I use a Nikon SB-28 on an SU-4 slave with my Canon gear, as well as my Nikon.

Ciao!

Joe

 

[Joseph S Wisniewski]

Steve,

TTL is a bad idea for studio shooting anyway, even with film
cameras where there's no issue with preflashes.

TTL is a nice "quick fix" for many "automatic" flash problems, but if you're in a studio situation, flash meters are the way to go. Especially for fashion, product, anything where there's not a lot of "18% grey" in the scene.

Especially fully gowned brides.

Studio flashes
don't support TTL metering. You want to put your camera and flashes
in manual mode and set your exposure with a flash meter.

There's a reason for that. TTL needs some way of controlling flash output while the flash is "flashing". Most studio flashes have very primitive power controlls (often simply letting you set full, 1/2, or 1/4 power by switching capacitors in or out of the circuit).

My "white lightnings" charge the capacitors up to a particular voltage to get a particular power. SO, once the flashes start flashing there,s no way to reduce power, you get whatever was in the capacitors.

Personally, I'd like to see studio flash units with thyristor power control, if just to make them recycle faster.

Ciao!

Joe

 

[Joseph S Wisniewski]

use studio strobes with the D100? It is so hopeless using the D100
with the SB80 wirelessly because it does NOT work in TTL mode!!

Any ideas from people with solutions to this TTL problem? Any??

Ikelight makes a flash unit that's designed for slave flash with digital, even TTL digital. It's so fast that it can turn on and off with the preflashes and with the main flash, so it acts like a "light amplifier".

It's also, if memory serves, just under $1000 US, and very bulky (being built for underwater use by divers).

Ciao!

Joe

 

[Clark Hampton]

Just shoot manual and adjust based on the image on the LCD. I do it allthe time. I have more control. I can adjust lights and the camera until it's perfect. TTL is really meant for situation where you don't have the time to get it exactly right. If you're using studio lights, shoot manual.

 

[Dave Harpe]

I'm with you. This stuff used to be a lot more of a factor when you had no way of knowing if you were right until the film came back. With digital, you take your test shots until you get it to look like you want it, then you go for the real ones.

Recently in the studio I've been hooking up a spare video monitor to the D100 video output. It's great to have a reasonable sized screen to get a feel for what your shot looks like.

Dave

Just shoot manual and adjust based on the image on the LCD. I do it
allthe time. I have more control. I can adjust lights and the
camera until it's perfect. TTL is really meant for situation where
you don't have the time to get it exactly right. If you're using
studio lights, shoot manual.

 

[Joe Desbonnet]

Is there any really good tutorial on the whole flash thing. I'm looking for something that's not dumbed down.

BTW: what does TTL stand for in the context of flash? Is it "Through The Lens" or is it the electronics term Transisistor Tranistor Logic (5 volt signals)... or ??

use studio strobes with the D100? It is so hopeless using the D100
with the SB80 wirelessly because it does NOT work in TTL mode!!
Only manual

what a waste!!

Any ideas from people with solutions to this TTL problem? Any??

Thanks

 

[Duncan C]

Is there any really good tutorial on the whole flash thing. I'm
looking for something that's not dumbed down.

BTW: what does TTL stand for in the context of flash? Is it
"Through The Lens" or is it the electronics term Transisistor
Tranistor Logic (5 volt signals)... or ??

 

[Lloyd O'Daniel]

use studio strobes with the D100? It is so hopeless using the D100
with the SB80 wirelessly because it does NOT work in TTL mode!!
Only manual

I'm so glad I found this forum. You probably saved me a lot of grief. I've been a Nikon 35mm user for 20 years and am planning to buy a DSLR soon. I'm so disgusted about the DTTL flash fiasco that I'm seriously thinking of switching to Canon. Their strobes do wireless TTL with their DSLRs and you can even individually ratio the lights in half stops! Why does Nikon think we willl pay $350 a pop for these fancy SB-80s when all but one light setups have to be used like Vivitar 283's? Are they nuts?

I have found contradictions between Nikon's Japanese website and the USA website. In Japan, the site mentions the DTTL limitation and has a chart of speedlight/camera compatibility. I envisioned getting a couple of the small, light, inexpensive SB30's to use for macro on a Lepp bracket. With my 70-180 that would be perfect. The Japanese site plainly said the 30 won't do DTTL. The USA site says it will work with digital SLR's. Very misleading!

To add insult to injury, I have called the Nikon USA Digital hotline on two separate occasions. In both cases, I have been told specifically that the SB30 will do TTL with the D100 and that multiple TTL flash is possible both wirelessly and using SC-18/19's to connect the lights. I had just finished my second call to them before checking out this forum and finding a large number of messages stating that it will not work. :-(

Apparently, Nikon's customer service reps are as incompetent as their engineers.

Lloyd

 

[steve giron]

To add insult to injury, I have called the Nikon USA Digital
hotline on two separate occasions. In both cases, I have been told
specifically that the SB30 will do TTL with the D100 and that
multiple TTL flash is possible both wirelessly and using SC-18/19's
to connect the lights. I had just finished my second call to them
before checking out this forum and finding a large number of
messages stating that it will not work. :-(

Apparently, Nikon's customer service reps are as incompetent as
their engineers.

Lloyd

So is THIS forum the ultimate authority on Nikon equipment or is Nikon the authority on thier own equipment.

 

[James Riley]

So is THIS forum the ultimate authority on Nikon equipment or is
Nikon the authority on thier own equipment.

Well, I have several 80DX's and several SC-17, SC-18, and SC-19 cables. And two D100's. It does not do DTTL, wireless, nor wired. The secondary flash connected with SC-17 or SC-18 or SC-19 acts dumb.

Sadly marketing has become more important than serving the customers.

--
JR

 

[Many Feathers]

Dave,

Does this then give you the image only after you've taken it?

MF

I'm with you. This stuff used to be a lot more of a factor when
you had no way of knowing if you were right until the film came
back. With digital, you take your test shots until you get it to
look like you want it, then you go for the real ones.

Recently in the studio I've been hooking up a spare video monitor
to the D100 video output. It's great to have a reasonable sized
screen to get a feel for what your shot looks like.

Dave

 

[revaaron]

http://www.nikonusa.com/usa_product/product.jsp?cat=1&grp=4&productNr=3073NCP

help?

use studio strobes with the D100? It is so hopeless using the D100
with the SB80 wirelessly because it does NOT work in TTL mode!!
Only manual

what a waste!!

Any ideas from people with solutions to this TTL problem? Any??

Thanks

 

[wtm961]

I have an SB30 and can verify it does NOT do D-TTL. I got it as a small pocketable fill flash for the F100 (TTL okay here) and tried it on my D100. No way. It will work in manual mode and as a remote infrared wireless with the D100.

I've used both the onboard flash and SB80 to trigger the remote SB30.

W.

use studio strobes with the D100? It is so hopeless using the D100
with the SB80 wirelessly because it does NOT work in TTL mode!!
Only manual

I'm so glad I found this forum. You probably saved me a lot of
grief. I've been a Nikon 35mm user for 20 years and am planning to
buy a DSLR soon. I'm so disgusted about the DTTL flash fiasco that
I'm seriously thinking of switching to Canon. Their strobes do
wireless TTL with their DSLRs and you can even individually ratio
the lights in half stops! Why does Nikon think we willl pay $350 a
pop for these fancy SB-80s when all but one light setups have to be
used like Vivitar 283's? Are they nuts?

I have found contradictions between Nikon's Japanese website and
the USA website. In Japan, the site mentions the DTTL limitation
and has a chart of speedlight/camera compatibility. I envisioned
getting a couple of the small, light, inexpensive SB30's to use for
macro on a Lepp bracket. With my 70-180 that would be perfect. The
Japanese site plainly said the 30 won't do DTTL. The USA site says
it will work with digital SLR's. Very misleading!

To add insult to injury, I have called the Nikon USA Digital
hotline on two separate occasions. In both cases, I have been told
specifically that the SB30 will do TTL with the D100 and that
multiple TTL flash is possible both wirelessly and using SC-18/19's
to connect the lights. I had just finished my second call to them
before checking out this forum and finding a large number of
messages stating that it will not work. :-(

Apparently, Nikon's customer service reps are as incompetent as
their engineers.

Lloyd

 

[Group Idiot]

Any ideas from people with solutions to this TTL problem? Any??

As was pointed out already, TTL becomes less and less necessary, especially in a static studio, when you have instant review capabilities, a histogram, and highlights review.

Simply shoot and adjust. It'll only take a couple of shots.

Brendan
--
Equipment list in profile -- where it BELONGS!
----------
If a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, I'm the world's most dangerous man!

 

[Duncan C]

The SU-4 offers wireless TTL control for Nikon film bodies, but not for DSLRs. It WILL work with the Fuji S2, by the way.

The problem is DTTL. Nikon's DTTL system uses a series of preflashes to calculate the exposure. Then it opens the shutter and fires the flash at a pre-calculated power.

This causes 2 problems. First, the preflashes fire any wireless slaves, which screws up the preflash calculations. Second, when it comes time for the main exposure, the camera fires the flash for a pre-calculated duration. It can't allow for extra light from other flashes, so even if you avoid the preflash issue, extra flashes usually cause overexposed images.

You can get decent results with automatic metering if you set your flashes on automatic mode. Then, each flash controls it's own output based on the light IT sees reflecting from the subject.

You can also set your main flash on automatic (or AA, for an SB-28DX or SB-80DX connected to the hotshoe or to an SC-17 cable) and then use slaved SB-80s or any Nikon TTL flash hooked to SU-4s and set to TTL mode. Then the main flash measures the total light output of all the flashes, and turns them all off at once. The flashes don't fire preflashes in auto mode, so this method works pretty well.

Duncan C
------

help?

use studio strobes with the D100? It is so hopeless using the D100
with the SB80 wirelessly because it does NOT work in TTL mode!!
Only manual

what a waste!!

Any ideas from people with solutions to this TTL problem? Any??

Thanks

--
dpreview and PBase supporter.



http://www.pbase.com/duncanc