Shutterfly Questions

[CrashTest]

I took over 150 shots at a wedding last weekend. With HQ/JPEG the 2020 recycles quite fast, so I was firing away. Got some good pix, too. The camera was hot, and on one occasion when I apparently was snapping away before it had finished writing to disk, it froze up. I released the battery door and immediately reclosed it and kept firing.

Anyway, I'm planning to take advantage of shutterfly.com's free 100 prints (you have to sign up by 6/30 and order by 9/30, or 90 days, whichever comes first). I have some questions.

I had planned to do some editing before uploading to shutterfly, but as I understand it every time you resave a photo file in .jpg format you lose some quality. Shutterfly says if you use an image editor you should "save as" to "preserve original data as it came from the camera," meaning photo file information, I presume. Using "save as" does not help preserve image quality, compared to "save" I assume?

Shutterfly recommends you upload photos just as they came from the camera and they will crop and enhance them to produce the best quality print. Has anyone had experience with the quality of enhancement shutterfly does and the resulting prints?

If I do enhance some of my photos before uploading, I assume I should save them with minimum jpeg compression to preserve the most image quality? (Shutterfly does not support TIFF file uploads, btw.)

Any other suggestions for uploading to this online printer?

Thanks,
Crash

 

[Yan]

I had planned to do some editing before uploading to shutterfly, but as I
understand it every time you resave a photo file in .jpg format you lose
some quality. Shutterfly says if you use an image editor you should "save
as" to "preserve original data as it came from the camera," meaning photo
file information, I presume. Using "save as" does not help preserve image
quality, compared to "save" I assume?

The only difference between save and save as is the filename so save as can create a new file where save just overwrites the existing file

Shutterfly recommends you upload photos just as they came from the camera
and they will crop and enhance them to produce the best quality print.

If you upload the photos as they came from the camera, it garanties to them that the file has the "original quality" and also contains the EXIF information.

I read somewhere that they use the EXIF info to adjust the gamma/color correction according the the specific camera that you use. So they'll know you used an Oympus 2020z and will make adjustments accordingly.
If for example you use Photoshop, it looses the EXIF info on the save operation.

So ShutterFly can't adjust according to your camera info to get the color accuracy that they get.

As for the cropping, I don't believe that ShutterFly pays a human being to crop correctly your photo ( as you knoe the 4x6 picture is not the same as the standard image ratio). So For a 4x6 pictures some cropping will occur.
So don't rely on software to decide if you want to crop somebody's head on feet!

If you crop with photoshop or some other tools that don't keep the EXIF info, you'll loose the special adjustments.

But the ShutterFly Web site lets you indicate on their site where to crop each picture without modifying the original. That's what I did for most of my pictures.
The ones that I didn't choose the cropping, It was not done correctly.

They do seem to enhance your pictures slightly. For example some facial blemishes are not as visible on a person's face even though the rest of the picture is nice and crisp. Maybe some kind of "smart Blur" in effect.

Has anyone had experience with the quality of enhancement shutterfly does
and the resulting prints?

Yes, they come out great. You can compare the prints results of Shutterfly and others by going to the link in this forum thread:
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1003&message=308344

If I do enhance some of my photos before uploading, I assume I should
save them with minimum jpeg compression to preserve the most image
quality? (Shutterfly does not support TIFF file uploads, btw.)

Yes but remember that resolution is more important than jpg compression in general. So always take your pictures in the highest res.
Less compression preserves image quality as you say.

Any other suggestions for uploading to this online printer?

No but as a reminder:
1) Crop your pictures the way you want it on their site or
on your machine. Don't let them decide what to crop.

2) try to keep your EXIF info inside your images. I think some programs can "put the info back into a picture" if you saved that info somewhere.

Yan.

Crash

 

[fbacon]

I used Shutterfly and some of the files I sent them were enhanced in Photoshop, and some in ThumbsPlus. ThumbsPlus has a box you can check that basically loses the exif information...if you leave the box blank it is supposed to retain it. I don't know if it really works, but ALL the prints I got back from Shutterfly were superb...and I sent some straight out of the camera, too. I let them do the cropping except for one picture, which I cropped in Photoshop and then did a save as. They did fine with that, too. I think on their website they note that they tend to crop from the bottom because usually you are taking pictures of people, and cropping from the top results in cut off faces.

They do a great job...I wouldn't worry about it too much. I think you will be VERY pleased with them.

I took over 150 shots at a wedding last weekend. With HQ/JPEG the 2020
recycles quite fast, so I was firing away. Got some good pix, too. The
camera was hot, and on one occasion when I apparently was snapping away
before it had finished writing to disk, it froze up. I released the
battery door and immediately reclosed it and kept firing.

Anyway, I'm planning to take advantage of shutterfly.com's free 100
prints (you have to sign up by 6/30 and order by 9/30, or 90 days,
whichever comes first). I have some questions.

I had planned to do some editing before uploading to shutterfly, but as I
understand it every time you resave a photo file in .jpg format you lose
some quality. Shutterfly says if you use an image editor you should "save
as" to "preserve original data as it came from the camera," meaning photo
file information, I presume. Using "save as" does not help preserve image
quality, compared to "save" I assume?

Shutterfly recommends you upload photos just as they came from the camera
and they will crop and enhance them to produce the best quality print.
Has anyone had experience with the quality of enhancement shutterfly does
and the resulting prints?

If I do enhance some of my photos before uploading, I assume I should
save them with minimum jpeg compression to preserve the most image
quality? (Shutterfly does not support TIFF file uploads, btw.)

Any other suggestions for uploading to this online printer?

Thanks,
Crash

 

[Roy F.]

I had planned to do some editing before uploading to shutterfly, but as I
understand it every time you resave a photo file in .jpg format you lose
some quality.

If you are saving in a quality level that is comparable to SHQ, such as
Adobe's level 9 or 10, you don't lose much, so I wouldn't worry about it.
When you are done, you can save as Adobe level 6, or about equal to HQ,
to conserve upload time and to conserve your quota of disk space at
shutterfly. But keep the high quality (level 9 or 10) jpegs for further
editing.

Shutterfly says if you use an image editor you should "save
as" to "preserve original data as it came from the camera," meaning photo
file information, I presume. Using "save as" does not help preserve image
quality, compared to "save" I assume?

Camedia has a "Save As Exif (Jpeg)" which would preserve exif info.
I haven't tried sending photos with exif info to Shutterfly. It's possible
that you'll get a better color match if you include exif. But I've gotten
great results without it. (Note: I've had color matching problems with
ofoto, but no problem at all with shutterfly.)

Shutterfly recommends you upload photos just as they came from the camera
and they will crop and enhance them to produce the best quality print.
Has anyone had experience with the quality of enhancement shutterfly does
and the resulting prints?

If I do enhance some of my photos before uploading, I assume I should
save them with minimum jpeg compression to preserve the most image
quality? (Shutterfly does not support TIFF file uploads, btw.)

If your resolution is on the low side (140-180 ppi) you might want to send
SHQ-JPEG quality. If you have more than 200 ppi, I think HQ is OK. I've
sent only Adobe level 6 data with 150-200 ppi, and can't see any jpeg
distortion in my prints.

Any other suggestions for uploading to this online printer?

Typing in captions at the shutterfly web site is a pain. The default
caption is the filename. So if you name the files with the desired
caption, then when you batch upload, your captions will already be
there (but will all have ".jpg" appended to them).

I didn't see any way to organize images at shutterfly other than
by date of upload. So if you want to organize the images into
groups, you might want to upload one group per day.

I find it easiest to just add "1 4x6" of each image to an order, and
go to checkout. At checkout you can change quantities and size
much more efficiently than in the original ordering process.

Roy F.

 

[Yan19157]

I think on their website they note that they tend
to crop from the bottom because usually you are taking pictures of
people, and cropping from the top results in cut off faces.

That would make sense but...

I have received a whole batch were I did not specify the cropping and the top of the pictures was cropped.

They do a great job...I wouldn't worry about it too much. I think you
will be VERY pleased with them.

I agree, I have not met anybody not pleased by the results. (Other than the cropping issues)

Yan.

 

[Yan19157]

Actually, I would like the online printing services to let you print the WHOLE picture with no cropping. I don't want any cropping.

When I take pictures, I compose them so they look nice as they are. I don't want to print them differently. Just give the user an additional printing size that has the same ratio as the standard (4:3) screen so give the user a 6 by 4.5 inch picture!

Yan.

I think on their website they note that they tend
to crop from the bottom because usually you are taking pictures of
people, and cropping from the top results in cut off faces.

That would make sense but...
I have received a whole batch were I did not specify the cropping and the
top of the pictures was cropped.

They do a great job...I wouldn't worry about it too much. I think you
will be VERY pleased with them.

I agree, I have not met anybody not pleased by the results. (Other than
the cropping issues)

Yan.

 

[Jason Chan]

Yan,

That's interesting. I've noticed my pictures consistently cropped from the bottom. Maybe they screwed up your batch somehow. Personally, I think the best thing to do is do your own cropping in Photoshop (or other image editor) so you have a better idea of what you're getting. As long as the images you submit are cropped for the right ratio, you should be fine.

With 5x7 and 8x10, I believe they show you how your image would look with their own cropping.

Jason

That would make sense but...
I have received a whole batch were I did not specify the cropping and the
top of the pictures was cropped.

They do a great job...I wouldn't worry about it too much. I think you
will be VERY pleased with them.

I agree, I have not met anybody not pleased by the results. (Other than
the cropping issues)

Yan.

 

[Roy F.]

The printing world does not seem to have adapted to 4:3 ratio.

However, at shutterfly, you can print a 6x4.5 on a 5x7 with any of
several border choices (black, white, black line, etc.) Or scale down
slightly and print 4.8x3.6 on a 4x6. There are lots of other choices.

Roy F.

Yan.

I think on their website they note that they tend
to crop from the bottom because usually you are taking pictures of
people, and cropping from the top results in cut off faces.

That would make sense but...
I have received a whole batch were I did not specify the cropping and the
top of the pictures was cropped.

They do a great job...I wouldn't worry about it too much. I think you
will be VERY pleased with them.

I agree, I have not met anybody not pleased by the results. (Other than
the cropping issues)

Yan.

 

[CrashTest]

Thanks Roy, Yan, Chan and fbacon! I've been sidetracked for the past 24 hours or so. Now I'll get back to this issue of what to do with/to the photos I upload to shutterfly.

Camedia has a "Save As Exif (Jpeg)" which would preserve exif info.
I haven't tried sending photos with exif info to Shutterfly. It's possible
that you'll get a better color match if you include exif. But I've gotten
great results without it.

Roy, I had noticed the save as Exif (TIFF) in Camedia but looked right past the JPEG option. I tried it on an unedited photo and found that the new file was 654.7 KB with 8.6 compression, vs. 374.5 KB w/15 compression in the original. But I also noticed that it created another .tmp copy of the photo, this one 774.5 KB and 7.3 compression ratio.

If your resolution is on the low side (140-180 ppi) you might want to send
SHQ-JPEG quality. If you have more than 200 ppi, I think HQ is OK. I've
sent only Adobe level 6 data with 150-200 ppi, and can't see any jpeg
distortion in my prints.

Can't I just resize to change the ppi from 72 to 150+ (for my HQ images)? Or is it really necessary at all, since shutterfly says they will take the images just as they came from the camera and prepare them for printing? (I also have ACDSee which allows me to convert to JPEG of specified quality/compression level.)

Typing in captions at the shutterfly web site is a pain. The default
caption is the filename. So if you name the files with the desired
caption, then when you batch upload, your captions will already be
there (but will all have ".jpg" appended to them).

Do they print these captions on the back of the photo or what?

Thanks,
Crash

 

[ErikM]

some quality. Shutterfly says if you use an image editor you should "save
as" to "preserve original data as it came from the camera," meaning photo
file information, I presume. Using "save as" does not help preserve image
quality, compared to "save" I assume?

My guess is they meant:
If you open FILE-A and edit it and save it as FILE-B, you still have
the original (FILE-A) preserved!

Has anyone had experience with the quality of enhancement shutterfly does
and the resulting prints?

I was so happy with my free prints, I felt like sending them some
money anyway!

 

[Yan]

Yes the captions are printed on the back of the pictures.
You get to fill out 2 lines one for the title and one for a description.

I think it's worth it. Have you ever received pictures from your family/friends with some caption on the back?
It makes them even more enjoyable. And in 10 years, it will help you remember.

If you don't enter the title and description, then you'll get the filename printed.

If your picture still has the EXIF info, then they print also the date the picture was actually taken. If the picture has no EXIF info, then they say "printed on " and the date the pictures were printed.

Yan.

Do they print these captions on the back of the photo or what?

Thanks,
Crash

 

[Roy F.]

Camedia has a "Save As Exif (Jpeg)" which would preserve exif info.
I haven't tried sending photos with exif info to Shutterfly. It's possible
that you'll get a better color match if you include exif. But I've gotten
great results without it.

Roy, I had noticed the save as Exif (TIFF) in Camedia but looked right
past the JPEG option. I tried it on an unedited photo and found that the
new file was 654.7 KB with 8.6 compression, vs. 374.5 KB w/15 compression
in the original. But I also noticed that it created another .tmp copy of
the photo, this one 774.5 KB and 7.3 compression ratio.

I don't know about the .tmp file, but the size of your jpeg output file
is controlled by the Edit - Options - JPEG - JPEG Compression setting.
Your setting is apparently 'High Quality". If you select "Standard Quality",
you should get a file which is slightly smaller than the original HQ file,
maybe around 320KB, a reasonable size for uploading to shutterfly.

If your resolution is on the low side (140-180 ppi) you might want to send
SHQ-JPEG quality. If you have more than 200 ppi, I think HQ is OK. I've
sent only Adobe level 6 data with 150-200 ppi, and can't see any jpeg
distortion in my prints.

Can't I just resize to change the ppi from 72 to 150+ (for my HQ images)?
Or is it really necessary at all, since shutterfly says they will take
the images just as they came from the camera and prepare them for
printing? (I also have ACDSee which allows me to convert to JPEG of
specified quality/compression level.)

In my original remark, I was assuming you were cropping. You don't have to
change the ppi of an image. All that matters is the number of pixels and how
big you want to print. 150ppi is 600x900 at 4x6, 750x1050 at 5x7, and
1200x1500 for 8x10. As long as your images are at least as big as those sizes
in pixels, your prints at those sizes in inches should come out fine with about
HQ equivalent jpeg compression used in the uploaded images.

Roy F.

 

[CrashTest]

I don't know about the .tmp file, but the size of your jpeg output file
is controlled by the Edit - Options - JPEG - JPEG Compression setting.
Your setting is apparently 'High Quality". If you select "Standard Quality",
you should get a file which is slightly smaller than the original HQ file,
maybe around 320KB, a reasonable size for uploading to shutterfly.

Thanks, Roy. So the standard quality compression setting is sufficient for good shutterfly prints?

Crash

(BTW, I saw your post about the HP930C. I probably should have gotten in on that deal. What specific photo papers do they recommend for that printer? I find my HP1120C prints on HP Premium Photo Paper to be fragile, also. That's on glossy paper, of course. I found a very cheap matte finish photo paper coated on both sides that prints good quality. It's not got the weight of "true" photo paper, but it is not fragile, and is especially good for proofs. You could use it for photo album pages, too. And at 5.95 for 50 sheets, it looks real good!)

 

[Roy F.]

... So the standard quality compression setting is sufficient
for good shutterfly prints?

I think so, especially if resolution is 150ppi or more. For larger prints,
or greater crops, or if I only have a few images to upload, or if I'm
not all that sensitive to a factor of 2 in storage size & bandwidth, I
might play it safe and go with Camedia's high quality compression.

(BTW, I saw your post about the HP930C. I probably should have gotten in
on that deal. What specific photo papers do they recommend for that
printer?

All the HP papers, of course.

I've been using some Kodak glossy ink jet paper that I had for my
Canon BJC-620, both letter weight and photo weight. I set the HP
printer driver to "Other Photo Paper". I never used it up on that
printer because the printer wasn't good enough to justify the use
of expensive paper.

I find my HP1120C prints on HP Premium Photo Paper to be
fragile, also. That's on glossy paper, of course. I found a very cheap
matte finish photo paper coated on both sides that prints good quality.
It's not got the weight of "true" photo paper, but it is not fragile, and
is especially good for proofs. You could use it for photo album pages,
too. And at 5.95 for 50 sheets, it looks real good!)

What brand is your matte finish paper?

Roy F.

 

[CrashTest]

All the HP papers, of course.

Roy, HP printers have been in the past notorious for being picky about the paper they print on. They spray ink according to the paper settings in the properties setup. HP Deluxe Photo Paper, for instance, is specifically designated for "your HP DeskJet 720C, 722C and 890C printers." Very specific! My HP1120C's properties does not list this specific paper as an option, and I have not gotten consistently good results with it. My printer does list HP Premium Photo Paper, and I do get good results with that. Maybe your printer is different.

What brand is your matte finish paper?

It's from think4inc.com. My brother, a digital photography teacher in California, uses their papers in his class, and he sent me a pack. They also have a glossy paper that I haven't tried--about $19 for 50 sheets, $8 for 20. They're at 800-786-5521.

Crash

 

[Michelle22704]

Yan,

That's interesting. I've noticed my pictures consistently cropped from
the bottom. Maybe they screwed up your batch somehow. Personally, I think
the best thing to do is do your own cropping in Photoshop (or other image
editor) so you have a better idea of what you're getting. As long as the
images you submit are cropped for the right ratio, you should be fine.

With 5x7 and 8x10, I believe they show you how your image would look with
their own cropping.

Shutterfly now lets you crop the images yourself. You can choose to retain the original ratio of the image (1 to 1.3), 4 by 6 (or 1 to 1.5), 5 by 7, 8 by 10, or square. These are ratios, and can be resized, retaining the ratios. If the cropping is not the same ratio as the print size's ratio, the picture is centered on the paper, with horizontal borders a different width from the vertical borders.

Plus, they have all these neat art borders and shapes. I especially like the oval with blurred edges--looks great with a sepia-toned print.

--Michelle

 

[Jason Chan]

Crashtest,

Shutterfly recommends you upload photos just as they came from the camera
and they will crop and enhance them to produce the best quality print.
Has anyone had experience with the quality of enhancement shutterfly does
and the resulting prints?

I've used various borders (black and white borders) as well as the feathered edges, color toning and they all work pretty much as advertised. I haven't played with soft focus yet. Personally, I think you're better off doing your own enhancements in photoshop so you can see a full-sized image instead of a tiny thumbnail.

As far as the borders are concerned: they do work as advertised, but be aware that the edges of the actual image aren't exactly "sharp." The resulting shutterfly images with borders are similar to say a regular 4x6 size print that is printed on 5x7 paper. You'll get very slight "jaggies" because the negative isn't 100% straight and the imperfections get magnified during enlargement. This is a relatively minor point, but something I feel people should be aware of.

If I do enhance some of my photos before uploading, I assume I should
save them with minimum jpeg compression to preserve the most image
quality? (Shutterfly does not support TIFF file uploads, btw.)

Yes, this is true...shutterfly don't do tiff.

Jason

 

[Roy F.]

All the HP papers, of course.

Roy, HP printers have been in the past notorious for being picky about
the paper they print on. They spray ink according to the paper settings
in the properties setup. HP Deluxe Photo Paper, for instance, is
specifically designated for "your HP DeskJet 720C, 722C and 890C
printers." Very specific! My HP1120C's properties does not list this
specific paper as an option, and I have not gotten consistently good
results with it. My printer does list HP Premium Photo Paper, and I do
get good results with that. Maybe your printer is different.

The driver has a long list of papers in a dropdown box. There are
many HP types listed. I didn't realize HP had so many types. Some
certainly give better results than others, but I can't find that information
anywhere. Thanks for the clue to not buy an HP type that's not listed in
the dropdown box without first verifying its compatibility.

What brand is your matte finish paper?

It's from think4inc.com. My brother, a digital photography teacher in
California, uses their papers in his class, and he sent me a pack. They
also have a glossy paper that I haven't tried--about $19 for 50 sheets,
$8 for 20. They're at 800-786-5521.

Thanks for the info.

Roy F.

 

[CrashTest]

Well, there you have it. My "old" 1120C (2+ years) only supports 1 HP PHOTO paper! That should be justification enough for the Mrs. that I need a new printer, don't you think?

Crash

The driver has a long list of papers in a dropdown box. There are
many HP types listed. I didn't realize HP had so many types.