Shutter Shock a myth

[John M Roberts]

I agree. I can only assume that there are some badly assembled units out there resulting in shutter shock.

I have had no issues using the A7R handheld. I was surprised to find a 'definitive shutter shock proof' review where blurriness was seen in a photo at 100mm whilst on a tripod, when in fact my handheld shots are a lot sharper.

That seems reasonable to me. Your hands will damp the vibration, while a tripod (especially one with a ball-and-socket head) is more likely to resonate.

In my opinion the only real solution will be for Sony to develop a comparable sensor with an electronic first curtain. Then you can be certain there is no vibration.

The suggestion for a 1/8 or so delay would not be ideal but I could live with it. Eliminating it as you suggest with the electronic first curtain would be great. Did I remember correctly that the non "R" has the electronic first curtain? If so, what could be the reason not to include it in the 36mp model?

In the film era, there was a time when some camera companies released pro cameras, example Canon F1n without mirror lockup saying they had dampened it enough as not needed. That was not correct. In most cases I had to use the original F1 w/mlu with my 600mm to get usable images.

For a long time I thought my 300mm for my 67 Pentax was crap. I shot with MLU. Pentax said it was a tripod issue. I had a beefy Gitzo and head. Not the case. The shutter curtain was so large that it took either long exposures or very fast to get crisp images. I had to work around it and eventually bought a Kirk brace made for that lens. Pentax would never admit to this problem.

This 1/100th or so possible, infrequent as it may be, shutter shock has surprised me. Apparently the shutters operate differently than what I thought which could introduce some problems under certain situations at this unfortunate area of shutter speed. I'm sure this will not deter me from eventually getting one of these smaller gems but I will wait a bit to see what lens offerings appear. If I have to strap on some of my older, lets say FD sized lenses, then whats the point of having the small system only to use re-type big lenses. I will just stick with my D800E.

 

[Chris Malcolm]

I agree. I can only assume that there are some badly assembled units out there resulting in shutter shock.

I have had no issues using the A7R handheld. I was surprised to find a 'definitive shutter shock proof' review where blurriness was seen in a photo at 100mm whilst on a tripod, when in fact my handheld shots are a lot sharper.

That seems reasonable to me. Your hands will damp the vibration, while a tripod (especially one with a ball-and-socket head) is more likely to resonate.

In my opinion the only real solution will be for Sony to develop a comparable sensor with an electronic first curtain. Then you can be certain there is no vibration.

The suggestion for a 1/8 or so delay would not be ideal but I could live with it. Eliminating it as you suggest with the electronic first curtain would be great. Did I remember correctly that the non "R" has the electronic first curtain? If so, what could be the reason not to include it in the 36mp model?

Maybe it can run fast enough over the 24MP image, but not for the 36MP image.

 

[captura]

I agree. I can only assume that there are some badly assembled units out there resulting in shutter shock.

I have had no issues using the A7R handheld. I was surprised to find a 'definitive shutter shock proof' review where blurriness was seen in a photo at 100mm whilst on a tripod, when in fact my handheld shots are a lot sharper.

That seems reasonable to me. Your hands will damp the vibration, while a tripod (especially one with a ball-and-socket head) is more likely to resonate. or what?

In my opinion the only real solution will be for Sony to develop a comparable sensor with an electronic first curtain. Then you can be certain there is no vibration.

The A7 has an electronic first curtain shutter, just as they have used this device on their MILC cameras for a few years, now. For some unknown reason Sony has chosen to leave it off the A7r. Would you have Sony not install the one from the A7, or replace it with a different designed EFCS, or what? I am mystified about your meaning.

 

[cosmonaut]

I have been using the a7R, EA-LA4, 70-400mm combo and also the 70-300mm and I am getting really detailed and sharp images. The only thing is you have to go by the old rule when shooting with a zoom. Your shutter speed has to be as high as the focal length. Ect. at 300mm you need to be 1/300th or faster. This images are typical of what I am seeing.

I go back to what I said before if the sensor doesn't move like with the in body IS cameras it's just a matter of getting the camera steady and using a high enough shutter speed.

I sold my E-M1 because of the low amount of keepers I was getting. I can push the ISO so much higher on the a7R there is seldom need of IS.

And what if I want to shoot at 1/100 sec on a tripod for effect? For example, to get a helicopters rotors blurred while keeping the background & people sharp?

 

[cosmonaut]

I have been using the a7R, EA-LA4, 70-400mm combo and also the 70-300mm and I am getting really detailed and sharp images. The only thing is you have to go by the old rule when shooting with a zoom. Your shutter speed has to be as high as the focal length. Ect. at 300mm you need to be 1/300th or faster. This images are typical of what I am seeing.

I go back to what I said before if the sensor doesn't move like with the in body IS cameras it's just a matter of getting the camera steady and using a high enough shutter speed.

I sold my E-M1 because of the low amount of keepers I was getting. I can push the ISO so much higher on the a7R there is seldom need of IS.

And what if I want to shoot at 1/100 sec on a tripod for effect? For example, to get a helicopters rotors blurred while keeping the background & people sharp?

 

[Nigel Wilkins]

I have been using the a7R, EA-LA4, 70-400mm combo and also the 70-300mm and I am getting really detailed and sharp images. The only thing is you have to go by the old rule when shooting with a zoom. Your shutter speed has to be as high as the focal length. Ect. at 300mm you need to be 1/300th or faster. This images are typical of what I am seeing.

I go back to what I said before if the sensor doesn't move like with the in body IS cameras it's just a matter of getting the camera steady and using a high enough shutter speed.

I sold my E-M1 because of the low amount of keepers I was getting. I can push the ISO so much higher on the a7R there is seldom need of IS.

And what if I want to shoot at 1/100 sec on a tripod for effect? For example, to get a helicopters rotors blurred while keeping the background & people sharp?

 

[EdnaBambrick]

There is no IS/OSS at play here. It's the shutter and it's exacerbated by focal length. Ever seen a 21mm buffeted by wind ? You see it everyday with a 300mm

 

[Kim Letkeman]

I have been using the a7R, EA-LA4, 70-400mm combo and also the 70-300mm and I am getting really detailed and sharp images. The only thing is you have to go by the old rule when shooting with a zoom. Your shutter speed has to be as high as the focal length. Ect. at 300mm you need to be 1/300th or faster. This images are typical of what I am seeing.

I go back to what I said before if the sensor doesn't move like with the in body IS cameras it's just a matter of getting the camera steady and using a high enough shutter speed.

I sold my E-M1 because of the low amount of keepers I was getting. I can push the ISO so much higher on the a7R there is seldom need of IS.





--
www.gregmccary.com

"Shutter shock is a myth because all you have to do is ensure that you always shoot at shutter speeds that are high enough to avoid shutter shock."

I believe I captured the essence of your argument.

By the way are you aware that the root cause of terrorism is terrorists? That's another sage nugget that took the world by storm ...

--

Nothing Special

This blog is my personal space. Do not confuse this with statements or opinions on behalf of any employer I have ever had, have now, or will ever have in the future.

kimletkeman.blogspot.com

 

[cosmonaut]

I understand needing different settings for different effects. But explain to me how a fixed sensor, made in to the PC board and fixed into the camera can move inside the camera?

For the same reason that solid earth can vibrate during an earthquake - vibration moves through the material itself. And with different materials inside the camera each will resonate at a different frequency.

Watch this:

Point taken. That's a heck of a shutter. Lol

 

[Nigel Wilkins]

There is no IS/OSS at play here. It's the shutter and it's exacerbated by focal length. Ever seen a 21mm buffeted by wind ? You see it everyday with a 300mm

Yes, I know. I was replying to "It didn't help with the E-M1."

P.S. If you click "reply with quote" your comments make more sense, to others & yourself. People know what you're replying to.

--
nigelwilkinsphotography.com
.
Everything to do with the art of photography is a guideline. The only rules are generally enforced by the police.

 

[NumberOne]

...it's happening in a very narrow band of shutter speeds, about 1/50 to 1/125. And it can happen WITH the camera mounted on a tripod. It is a problem specific to long lenses, it appears, and it's also more evident when mounting to the tripod from the lens foot.

...And with adapters and non-Sony lenses, something many seem to forget!

I've seen the test results and I believe them.

I'll still buy the camera, since I don't use those focal lengths. I'm a little unclear why people who ARE using those focal lengths would buy an A7r---seems very much like the wrong body for the job even w/o a shutter shock problem. For long tele I'd either go with a stabilized, larger body with a better frame rate for handholding or for gimbal mounting. Seems very queer to me to deliberately choose a slow, small camera for this usage.

...Yes, pick the right tool for the job!