Should flash be used when using aperatures 2.8 and below?

[reed1]

I have begun to experiment with shooting in aperature mode. I'm using the D 90 with a 24-70mm F2.8 lense. I took a shot of a subject @ F 8, then another shot of the same subject, same distance, same conditions @ F 2.8. I was using my sb-800 in TTL mode both shots. The shot @ F8 looked sharp, the exposure looked dark, but it looked correct. The shot @ F 2.8 looked light, almost like it may have been slithtly over-exposed. Sorry that I don't have pictures to show what I'm trying to say.
--
JR

 

[Mr. Click]

There are just so many variables in terms of subject, distance, room conditions, etc. that I don't know where to start. To answer you question though, yes, you can certainly use flash at f2.8 and below.
--
Photograph—a 1/125 second slice of time that is able to store
decades of memories.

 

[tvnewsbadge]

Sure, and at 1.8 too... do it all the time when documenting accident scenes at night.

 

[PhotoLeon1935]

Mr Click is correct. You haven't given us enough information. What camera? What subject? Is there an open window in the room with recognizable objects outside?

Flash in daylight is wonderful to erase dark shadows in the eyes, but f2.8 would cause limitations in high shutter speeds that don't work with flash. F11 could be great with flash in daylight with certain cameras that have high shutter sync.

Bouncing that big flash you have on a card or white ceiling would give great results with TTL flash set at -1EV at f2.8 if you wanted to blur everything but the subject.

With that much flash power, you could stop down to f5.6 or f8 and sharpen up most of the room or more than one person.

Notice in this picture that the outdoor exposure is the same as in the room. I predict that you are in for a lot of fun learning the essentials of photography.



--
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[Brooks P]

Far too little information presented. You don’t say what exposure mode you were using or which flash mode (i-TTL Balanced Fill-Flash or i-TTL Standard i-TTL Fill-Flash) you were using, or whether the flash was direct or bounced. When you went from f/8 to f/2.8 did the shutter speed change accordingly (three full stops)? F/2.8 lets in 8 times as much light as does the f/8 setting. You don’t tell us what the shutter speed was at f/8, maybe 1/60s? 1/60s is frequently the default shutter speed in which case going from f/8 to f/2.8 would entail going from 1/60s to 1/500s to maintain the same exposure and the D90 only syncs up to 1/200s unless you are using the Auto FP mode.

With a f/2.8 aperture, if the shutter speed was 1/200s, the maximum sync speed, it might be that the picture would have been overexposed without flash; with flash, even at the minimum 1/128 flash power, the additional light simple overwhelmed the cameras ability to compensate.
--

While amateurs change the camera’s settings; many Pro’s prefer to change the light.

Brooks
http://bmiddleton.smugmug.com/

 

[reed1]

Sorry for not supplying enough info, I don't know enough about what I'm trying to do to ask a senable question. The photo that you posted is the kind of stuff that I would love to be able to do. I'm shooting the D90 with 24 - 70 F/2.8 lense attached, and an sb 800 flash. I had my D90 set to matrix mode with flash set to iTTL standard. I was bouncing the flash off of a big flipit card angled at about a 45 degree angle. The subject that I was shooting was a dark complexion male in a dimmly lit church with painted windows. I honestly cant say if the shuttle speed changed 3 stops on not, but I do know that when I went from F/8 to F/2.8 that the shuttle was @ 1/60s for both shoots. Want you guys to know that I do appreaciate any help that you may give.
--
JR

 

[reed1]

Sorry for not supplying enough info, I don't know enough about what I'm trying to do to ask a senable question. I'm shooting the D90 with 24 - 70 F/2.8 lense attached, and an sb 800 flash. I had my D90 set to matrix mode with flash set to iTTL standard. I was bouncing the flash off of a big flipit card angled at about a 45 degree angle. The subject that I was shooting was a dark complexion male in a dimmly lit church with painted windows. I honestly cant say if the shuttle speed changed 3 stops on not, but I do know that when I went from F/8 to F/2.8 that the shuttle was @ 1/60s for both shoots. Want you guys to know that I do appreaciate any help that you may give.

--
JR

 

[Sagittarius]

Sorry for not supplying enough info, I don't know enough about what I'm trying to do to ask a senable question. I'm shooting the D90 with 24 - 70 F/2.8 lense attached, and an sb 800 flash. I had my D90 set to matrix mode with flash set to iTTL standard. I was bouncing the flash off of a big flipit card angled at about a 45 degree angle. The subject that I was shooting was a dark complexion male in a dimmly lit church with painted windows. I honestly cant say if the shuttle speed changed 3 stops on not, but I do know that when I went from F/8 to F/2.8 that the shuttle was @ 1/60s for both shoots. Want you guys to know that I do appreaciate any help that you may give.

--
JR

Hi,

If the shutter speed was 1/60 at both f stops, you probably were in one of auto modes (S, A or P). When you use one of these modes, your shutter speed default is 1/60. When you got to f/2.8 from f/8you open your aperture 3 to 4 stops with the same shutter speed. Therefore your image will be overexposed. Use manual mode and adjust your shutter speed accordingly.
--
Best regards

 

[PhotoLeon1935]

With daylight scene in the window, Set ISO = 200. Mode = Manual, Shutter = 200, Aperture = f11.

Stand off angle from the window so the glass does not reflect back.

SB800 should show TTL (not TTL BL)

Use Normal Picture Control and reset to default settings.

Focus on something inside the room. Check image in viewer. If room is too dark press the red button next to the flash mount and set to +.7

Add human models as needed.

That should do it. See if you can figure out why that combination works. Hint, you just took two pictures with the same settings.

--
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http://www.leongoodman.com/expose
http://www.leongoodman.com/d70focusnew.html
http://www.pbase.com/photoleon
http://www.leongoodman.com

 

[PhotoLeon1935]

Don't use the flash. Set Aperture = f2.8 in A mode. ISO = 400 or 800. Position model to face the window at 30 to 90 degree angle. Stand with your shoulder at the window's edge. Do not let the window show in the picture.

Shoot and experiment. If there is a sheer curtain, open and close it. If the sun comes into the room and hits a white wall, let the diffused light from the wall light the face of the model.

Photographers paint with light. Pay attention to where the light comes from.

Walk around the room snapping. See what works. Matrix metering works great as long as you don't try to set the meter focus point on something black or white.

White balance is going to be all over the place, so experiment with Auto WB .

Avoid getting light off brightly colored walls. Experiment. Don't be afraid of high ISO with this camera and avoid looking at 100% crops. You have 12 MP there and 50% crop tells you what kind of large print you can make.

Enjoy!
--
http://www.leongoodman.com/balance
http://www.leongoodman.com/expose
http://www.leongoodman.com/d70focusnew.html
http://www.pbase.com/photoleon
http://www.leongoodman.com

 

[drazorsek]

Sure why not? I just took the image below this weekend of my little guy who's just learning how to walk. I had a sliding glass door in the background with a bright light so I under exposed by -4 and cranked up the flash output to +1. I don't know if that's the right "formula" but I'm learning myself. For this image I don't care, I captured what I wanted, my son walking, and my wife ecstatic in the background. Now if only the Steelers would have beat the Bears that would have been the icing on the cake!

--Dave

http://gallery.me.com/davidrazorsek#100377/2009-09-20-20at-2016-06-56-202861&bgcolor=black

 

[drazorsek]

Okay, I thought I just embedded the image but apparently I did not. What did I do wrong?

 

[PhotoLeon1935]

Okay, I thought I just embedded the image but apparently I did not. What did I do wrong?

You have got to get the image on a screen by itself by right clicking and selecting the "copy image location" Paste it into the post and add .jpg

You can check to see that it works OK by looking below the new posting to see how it will appear. It is a new feature of dpreview. They are always improving this site.



It's no bad thing to me if you just point to your gallery as long as I don't need to log into your gallery provider.

You are good either way as far as I'm concerned. You have a good gallery provider. Some providers I really don't like.

Nice picture. You got the point. You could have also done this with a smaller aperture if you wanted the outside to appear darker. Nice bokeh at this aperture though.

--
http://www.leongoodman.com/balance
http://www.leongoodman.com/expose
http://www.leongoodman.com/d70focusnew.html
http://www.pbase.com/photoleon
http://www.leongoodman.com

 

[gisle]

Sorry for not supplying enough info, I don't know enough about what I'm trying to do to ask a senable question. I'm shooting the D90 with 24 - 70 F/2.8 lense attached, and an sb 800 flash. I had my D90 set to matrix mode with flash set to iTTL standard. I was bouncing the flash off of a big flipit card angled at about a 45 degree angle. The subject that I was shooting was a dark complexion male in a dimmly lit church with painted windows. I honestly cant say if the shuttle speed changed 3 stops on not, but I do know that when I went from F/8 to F/2.8 that the shuttle was @ 1/60s for both shoots. Want you guys to know that I do appreaciate any help that you may give.

If the shutter speed was 1/60 at both f stops, you probably were in one of auto modes (S, A or P).

OP said in his first posting that he was in "aperture mode" A - which makes sense: He is changing aperture.

When you use one of these modes, your shutter speed default is 1/60. When you got to f/2.8 from f/8you open your aperture 3 to 4 stops with the same shutter speed. Therefore your image will be overexposed.

Nope - camera in A mode is clever enough to adjust for ambient up to X-sync speed (and beyond if FP auto mode is enabled). But OP has explained that he was shooting inside a dimly lit church, so shutter speed probably don't matter. If ambient is low, exposure is determined by ISO, aperture and flash power, not by shutter speed.

Use manual mode and adjust your shutter speed accordingly.

There is no point in adjusting shutter speed when using TTL flash if the ambient is too low to matter.
--
– gisle [ See profile/plan for equipment list ]

 

[gisle]

I have begun to experiment with shooting in aperature mode. I'm using the D 90 with a 24-70mm F2.8 lense. I took a shot of a subject @ F 8, then another shot of the same subject, same distance, same conditions @ F 2.8. I was using my sb-800 in TTL mode both shots. The shot @ F8 looked sharp, the exposure looked dark, but it looked correct. The shot @ F 2.8 looked light, almost like it may have been slithtly over-exposed. Sorry that I don't have pictures to show what I'm trying to say.

Flash should work at any aperture.

I don't know why you had that overexposure.
Here's a Nikon flash tutorial: http://dpanswers.com/nikon_flash_use01.html

I suggest you follow the procedure outlined under "Basic Operation" to get started.
--
– gisle [ See profile/plan for equipment list ]

 

[drazorsek]

Nice picture. You got the point. You could have also done this with a smaller aperture if you wanted the outside to appear darker. Nice bokeh at this aperture though.

Thanks for the tip posting.

I finally got my 35mm 1.8, I am so glad to finally have something faster than the kit lens so now everything I shoot is @ 1.8 I'll be experimenting in the near future with it though, because I would have like to have had my wife a bit more in the focal range than what she was. I love how you can still read her face though.

--Dave

 

[Brooks P]

Assuming that photo was shot with a lens other than your new 35mm f/1.8, it is a fair assumption that the aperture was probably quite a bit smaller than f/1.8 and yet it still was too large to include your wife in the DOF. If you want your wife more in focus, yet still in the background, you are going to have to do some serious stopping down on the aperture (maybe f/5.6 or even f/8) from what you used in the photo you showed us.

Go read Leon’s Website, follow some of the provided links; also check out The Strobist Website ( http://www.strobist.blogspot.com/ ) where you will find a lot of very good information about using flash. Fast lenses work great in low-light situations, unless you also want decent DOF, in which case flash is your friend and savior.

--

While amateurs change the camera’s settings; many Pro’s prefer to change the light.

Brooks
http://bmiddleton.smugmug.com/