Shot some sheep and BIF - are there any tips?

[kayasaman]

Hi guys,

I have just had my first excursion into woodland and found some Red Kites and sheep.

The system I am using is a Nikon D500 with a Nikkor 18-300mm lens. As the lens is a long throw zoom aimed at mainly travel photography I understand that there are many optical compromises made to keep costs down and weight low.

Basically it's not the sharpest lens on the block but it is sharp enough.

I'm sure my inexperience and anxiety mainly caused issues but is there any advice or tips that anyone can offer?

My camera settings for these were:

*EV bias of -2

*shutter at 1/1000s

*f/8

*metering in spot mode

*72 point dynamic area AF

*auto ISO

*VR on

To start with here is one of a sheep. It looks ok but doesn't seem sharp enough to me and perhaps the background exposure is a little over exposed?



One thing I have noticed is that this camera and lens combination don't seem to produce fine details. It could me... or it could be the sensor not having a high enough dynamic range? I am not sure ?? My FF Pentax K1 mkii is far superior in this region - though I elected not to use it for this run.

Now on to the big problem. What have I done wrong here?? At home I have been practicing on gulls and anything else that I could find around the backyard and nothing is coming out well. I'm sure it's more me then the camera system but I honestly have no idea where to look

This one I totally goofed up. It's a Red Kite which belongs to the Raptor family.

I had the camera preset to a +1EV bias from the last time I used it which was probably a few months ago now it seems. My shutter therefor was at 1/500s.







After a few many shots I realized the problem then set the bias down to -2EV which I am comfortable with as it lowers the ISO and the noise. The D500 has quite a noisy sensor compared to my Pentax K1.

The shutter was then set to 1/1000s. I didn't change the AF setting. I found that I would get better results with spot mode but still not perfect. Metering was set to to spot:



I really don't understand why the exposure and focus is so bad and how to fix that. Is it just simply the wrong time of day or are there more deeper issues?



Thanks for any advice with these!! Like I mentioned this was my first time out trying this so outside of a few birds in my backyard experience level is pretty much 0.

 

[Morris0]

Hi there,

The first bird is a Buzzard which will often soar on the same thermal being used by Red Kite as both want to gain height with minimal effort. See how short and unforked the tail is compared with a Red Kite. It's altogether a chunkier, more heavily built bird.

All your pictures seem to have the highlights blown out so more negative compensation was probably needed. I've got a D850 and after moving from Canon I found that blown highlights were more of a problem than dark shadows as the shadows can be lifted quite well on that sensor. which is a full frame version f what you have I believe (but may be wrong).

The birds are all small in the frame so you are going to struggle with quality as not many pixels are involved. I think the Buzzard seems to have motion blur. In sunny weather I'd get up about 1000th of a second to make sure a moving bird is sharp. I'd go even higher on the D850.

If you can get a bird closer, the shutter speed higher, use just the centre focus point and make sure you don't blow out the highlights you should be in a better position to see what else could be corrected. The lens is rather short for wild flying birds unless they have a reason to come closer, like ones that are used to being fed.

Are you taking RAW? If not do that as it'll give you a bit more dynamic range. Use a noise reduction plug in like Topaz DeNoise AI to make the best of the pictures in high ISO.

If you want to take more birds maybe look for a second hand 150-600 mm lens and if you prefer the Pentax, get one in that mount although the D500 produces very good pictures in many people's hands.

If you are interested and let me know where you are I or someone else might be able to suggest places to go where you might get closer to birds with your existing gear.

Thanks for the response!

I don't know birds or foliage at all so I need to start learning that too.... unfortunately for me due to so many medical issues this is the first time that I'm really getting out in many years

I know the D500 has the same AF as the D5 but as to sensor I am not sure. Overall it's a far faster camera then the Pentax which is a must for birds or any type of moving wildlife. I love my Pentax but find that it's AF just doesn't work for me on anything moving.

Actually, I bought the D500 as it's far faster camera then my Pentax K1 and has better lens choice. I want to get the Sigma 60-600mm but that's been on the waiting list for a while.

I know 300mm on FF or APS-C is too short in general but I didn't think it would be this bad.

I did actually shoot RAW and have used RawTherapee on the images. As I'm a Linux user I'm not sure if Topaz DeNoise is available for this platform? I'll have to check that out. I turn denoise on in RT but even the landscape images I took are a little crunchy including the ones at ISO100. If I start using Median transforms then I loose detail as it blurs those components.

I can definitely say that the D500 has a much noisier sensor then my Pentax so I need to figure out how to get the best image from the camera.

I also agree that the D500 can produce fantastic results but as of yet I'm not aware or sure of how to obtain them.

Like I mentioned, this was my first trip ever with my cameras outside (though my Pentax got no use and was left in the trunk). There is still a long way to go in understanding the cameras and surroundings not to mention type and behavior of wildlife.

Topaz products will work on files from any camera. You should consider DxO Photo Lab to address noise. It's prime noise reduction is superb.

Morris

I didn't mean that it will not work on the camera, I was referring to the computer operating system as I am in the niche category. I don't run Apple OSX or Windows which means that my choice of closed source software is far less as not everyone develops software for Linux.

Possibly Wine would increase your choices. Another option is to virtualize and you need to think about GPU access either by making Windows or IOS the primary OS running doing GPU passthrough. Much of your decision would be based on how you use Linux.

For my desktop OS I prefer Windows and then run other OSs virtualized either on my Widows box with an Android VM or on my TruNAS box for things that run 24/7.

Morris

I use Linux for my user machines and FreeBSD for my servers with no GUI so I'm very much a command line type guy. Even on Linux my UI is started much later by me issuing a command after login.

Though right now I think I need to work more on camera settings and understanding and adjusting myself to the location. I find RawTherapee works really well for my needs up till now but perhaps finding a good way to denoise maybe the next stage in post.

The issue is good noise reduction requires a large investment in developer time and there dose not seem to be a large enough market to develop noise reduction for Linux.

When I started using computers there was no GUI and I'm fine using command line when I need to. I prefer a GUI as it saves me time looking things up for tasks I don't do frequently.

Morris

 

[kayasaman]

Hi there,

The first bird is a Buzzard which will often soar on the same thermal being used by Red Kite as both want to gain height with minimal effort. See how short and unforked the tail is compared with a Red Kite. It's altogether a chunkier, more heavily built bird.

All your pictures seem to have the highlights blown out so more negative compensation was probably needed. I've got a D850 and after moving from Canon I found that blown highlights were more of a problem than dark shadows as the shadows can be lifted quite well on that sensor. which is a full frame version f what you have I believe (but may be wrong).

The birds are all small in the frame so you are going to struggle with quality as not many pixels are involved. I think the Buzzard seems to have motion blur. In sunny weather I'd get up about 1000th of a second to make sure a moving bird is sharp. I'd go even higher on the D850.

If you can get a bird closer, the shutter speed higher, use just the centre focus point and make sure you don't blow out the highlights you should be in a better position to see what else could be corrected. The lens is rather short for wild flying birds unless they have a reason to come closer, like ones that are used to being fed.

Are you taking RAW? If not do that as it'll give you a bit more dynamic range. Use a noise reduction plug in like Topaz DeNoise AI to make the best of the pictures in high ISO.

If you want to take more birds maybe look for a second hand 150-600 mm lens and if you prefer the Pentax, get one in that mount although the D500 produces very good pictures in many people's hands.

If you are interested and let me know where you are I or someone else might be able to suggest places to go where you might get closer to birds with your existing gear.

Thanks for the response!

I don't know birds or foliage at all so I need to start learning that too.... unfortunately for me due to so many medical issues this is the first time that I'm really getting out in many years

I know the D500 has the same AF as the D5 but as to sensor I am not sure. Overall it's a far faster camera then the Pentax which is a must for birds or any type of moving wildlife. I love my Pentax but find that it's AF just doesn't work for me on anything moving.

Actually, I bought the D500 as it's far faster camera then my Pentax K1 and has better lens choice. I want to get the Sigma 60-600mm but that's been on the waiting list for a while.

I know 300mm on FF or APS-C is too short in general but I didn't think it would be this bad.

I did actually shoot RAW and have used RawTherapee on the images. As I'm a Linux user I'm not sure if Topaz DeNoise is available for this platform? I'll have to check that out. I turn denoise on in RT but even the landscape images I took are a little crunchy including the ones at ISO100. If I start using Median transforms then I loose detail as it blurs those components.

I can definitely say that the D500 has a much noisier sensor then my Pentax so I need to figure out how to get the best image from the camera.

I also agree that the D500 can produce fantastic results but as of yet I'm not aware or sure of how to obtain them.

Like I mentioned, this was my first trip ever with my cameras outside (though my Pentax got no use and was left in the trunk). There is still a long way to go in understanding the cameras and surroundings not to mention type and behavior of wildlife.

Topaz products will work on files from any camera. You should consider DxO Photo Lab to address noise. It's prime noise reduction is superb.

Morris

I didn't mean that it will not work on the camera, I was referring to the computer operating system as I am in the niche category. I don't run Apple OSX or Windows which means that my choice of closed source software is far less as not everyone develops software for Linux.

Possibly Wine would increase your choices. Another option is to virtualize and you need to think about GPU access either by making Windows or IOS the primary OS running doing GPU passthrough. Much of your decision would be based on how you use Linux.

For my desktop OS I prefer Windows and then run other OSs virtualized either on my Widows box with an Android VM or on my TruNAS box for things that run 24/7.

Morris

I use Linux for my user machines and FreeBSD for my servers with no GUI so I'm very much a command line type guy. Even on Linux my UI is started much later by me issuing a command after login.

Though right now I think I need to work more on camera settings and understanding and adjusting myself to the location. I find RawTherapee works really well for my needs up till now but perhaps finding a good way to denoise maybe the next stage in post.

The issue is good noise reduction requires a large investment in developer time and there dose not seem to be a large enough market to develop noise reduction for Linux.

When I started using computers there was no GUI and I'm fine using command line when I need to. I prefer a GUI as it saves me time looking things up for tasks I don't do frequently.

Morris

I'm not sure if you've seen my other thread in the landscape section but I mentioned that I have a medical condition and probably due to that, I don't get on very well with graphical point and click systems.

For now if I can just get some good shots with my camera(s) it will be fantastic. It took a lot of effort and energy to be able to get to this place on Wed. even though it was just so much fun.

Right now I just want to be able to head out there comfortable as yesterday I ended up from severe exhaustion and a bad headache. Today I still felt exhausted though I wanted to get out there again but thought it would be wiser not to push myself.

 

[kayasaman]

You are shooting in very harsh light so you need to go when the sun is lower in the sky if it's sunny. Your BIF shutter speeds are too low for straight non-panning shots and since you're a beginner it's better to keep them high at 1/1600 at least. Your birds are too small in the frame so it's not surprising you are getting a bit of overexposure. I'd use matrix metering for this type of scene and dial the exposure compensation down then. But you would also avoid these problems shooting in better light.

I agree with all Jason has stated. One thing you can do is to take a sample image and then adjust exposure compensation till the blinking highlight warnings go out. This may require increasing the shadows in post.

Morris

I did try to reduce shadows in post. Is that what you meant? It didn't work though as it seems there wasn't any detail within the shadows captured

No. You overexposed your photos resulting in loss of detail in the highlights. Frequently this can not be recovered. If you expose to protect the highlight detail, then you may need to dig out detail in the shadows by brightening them.

Morris

Next time I will try with the 'matrix metering' suggestion as I set the camera to 'spot'. I shot in manual mode with auto ISO.

I think a negative bias might be the better option though even when I tried that the exposure didn't get better....

It's probably all down to experience and seeing what works as every camera and even lens combination is quite different.

There are some basic starting points:

Subject in the sky +1 EV

White subject -1 EV

Bright background with subject in the shadows +1 EV

Remember these are starting points, you will need to develop an eye to adjust more accurately or do as I suggested where there is time.

Morris

Hmm.... subject in the sky +1EV? That's an odd thing to mention as I was at +1EV. It indicates that I was doing something very wrong indeed! ???

Yes, spot metering and your probably were not on your subject. If you were your subject would be over exposed. Use matrix, much easier.

These were all shot using a -2EV (I think if I remember correctly) using both my Pentax with the FA*300mm screwdrive lens and the Nikon Nikkor 18-300mm:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/G2w44djKBTAnaQAPA

Of course plane is a lot larger then bird but these were not exceptionally sharp either... I'm probably just pushing my lenses too hard I bet.

Ideally you come close to filling the frame. Less than 1/2 the frame and perfect sharpness is necessary to get a good crop. Not every capture will be this sharp.

Morris

I agree. It's probably why my fox shots came out quite well considering:

Wildlife · Apr 20 – Dec 29, 2022 📸

Shared album · Tap to view!

photos.app.goo.gl

the above were all taken in the backyard. The gulls I don't think I cropped but they didn't come out tack sharp.

The squirrels were definitely too small in frame as the cropping was quite heavy as were the smaller birds.

For one of the squirrels I used my Irix 150mm which is a manual focus only lens. It's ridiculously sharp when focus is nailed though I think I might have been off slightly.

Normally I find MF to be too slow when the subject is quite fidgety and moves around a lot.

 

[cjf2]

I did actually shoot RAW and have used RawTherapee on the images. As I'm a Linux user

A quick Google shows comments from Topaz and DxO in the last few years saying their product cannot be used with Linux. There are also forum posts by people who suggest work arounds so maybe you are up to trying them out.

Sometimes it is just worth going mainstream. I broke my camera and bought a new one that was not supported by my old Photoshop. I was determined not to pay the subscription so I bought Affinity and spent a miserable year trying to use that but the results were always poor. I nearly lost interest in photography. Then lockdown shut the hairdressers so I told myself I'm just sending the same on the subscription to Adobe. The hairdressers are back open but my wife does my hair (about as well as Affinity did for my photos!) and Adobe continue to get their pound of flesh. But I enjoy photography again.

As I said before if you let me know where you are (send a private message if you don't want to broadcast it) and I might be able to suggest places to go where you can get closer to birds or animals with what you have. Feeding birds just outside your window is something to try and visit local parks where wildfowl will often be quite approachable.

 

[kayasaman]

I did actually shoot RAW and have used RawTherapee on the images. As I'm a Linux user

A quick Google shows comments from Topaz and DxO in the last few years saying their product cannot be used with Linux. There are also forum posts by people who suggest work arounds so maybe you are up to trying them out.

Sometimes it is just worth going mainstream. I broke my camera and bought a new one that was not supported by my old Photoshop. I was determined not to pay the subscription so I bought Affinity and spent a miserable year trying to use that but the results were always poor. I nearly lost interest in photography. Then lockdown shut the hairdressers so I told myself I'm just sending the same on the subscription to Adobe. The hairdressers are back open but my wife does my hair (about as well as Affinity did for my photos!) and Adobe continue to get their pound of flesh. But I enjoy photography again.

As I said before if you let me know where you are (send a private message if you don't want to broadcast it) and I might be able to suggest places to go where you can get closer to birds or animals with what you have. Feeding birds just outside your window is something to try and visit local parks where wildfowl will often be quite approachable.

Just sent you a PM

 

[Morris0]

Hi there,

The first bird is a Buzzard which will often soar on the same thermal being used by Red Kite as both want to gain height with minimal effort. See how short and unforked the tail is compared with a Red Kite. It's altogether a chunkier, more heavily built bird.

All your pictures seem to have the highlights blown out so more negative compensation was probably needed. I've got a D850 and after moving from Canon I found that blown highlights were more of a problem than dark shadows as the shadows can be lifted quite well on that sensor. which is a full frame version f what you have I believe (but may be wrong).

The birds are all small in the frame so you are going to struggle with quality as not many pixels are involved. I think the Buzzard seems to have motion blur. In sunny weather I'd get up about 1000th of a second to make sure a moving bird is sharp. I'd go even higher on the D850.

If you can get a bird closer, the shutter speed higher, use just the centre focus point and make sure you don't blow out the highlights you should be in a better position to see what else could be corrected. The lens is rather short for wild flying birds unless they have a reason to come closer, like ones that are used to being fed.

Are you taking RAW? If not do that as it'll give you a bit more dynamic range. Use a noise reduction plug in like Topaz DeNoise AI to make the best of the pictures in high ISO.

If you want to take more birds maybe look for a second hand 150-600 mm lens and if you prefer the Pentax, get one in that mount although the D500 produces very good pictures in many people's hands.

If you are interested and let me know where you are I or someone else might be able to suggest places to go where you might get closer to birds with your existing gear.

Thanks for the response!

I don't know birds or foliage at all so I need to start learning that too.... unfortunately for me due to so many medical issues this is the first time that I'm really getting out in many years

I know the D500 has the same AF as the D5 but as to sensor I am not sure. Overall it's a far faster camera then the Pentax which is a must for birds or any type of moving wildlife. I love my Pentax but find that it's AF just doesn't work for me on anything moving.

Actually, I bought the D500 as it's far faster camera then my Pentax K1 and has better lens choice. I want to get the Sigma 60-600mm but that's been on the waiting list for a while.

I know 300mm on FF or APS-C is too short in general but I didn't think it would be this bad.

I did actually shoot RAW and have used RawTherapee on the images. As I'm a Linux user I'm not sure if Topaz DeNoise is available for this platform? I'll have to check that out. I turn denoise on in RT but even the landscape images I took are a little crunchy including the ones at ISO100. If I start using Median transforms then I loose detail as it blurs those components.

I can definitely say that the D500 has a much noisier sensor then my Pentax so I need to figure out how to get the best image from the camera.

I also agree that the D500 can produce fantastic results but as of yet I'm not aware or sure of how to obtain them.

Like I mentioned, this was my first trip ever with my cameras outside (though my Pentax got no use and was left in the trunk). There is still a long way to go in understanding the cameras and surroundings not to mention type and behavior of wildlife.

Topaz products will work on files from any camera. You should consider DxO Photo Lab to address noise. It's prime noise reduction is superb.

Morris

I didn't mean that it will not work on the camera, I was referring to the computer operating system as I am in the niche category. I don't run Apple OSX or Windows which means that my choice of closed source software is far less as not everyone develops software for Linux.

Possibly Wine would increase your choices. Another option is to virtualize and you need to think about GPU access either by making Windows or IOS the primary OS running doing GPU passthrough. Much of your decision would be based on how you use Linux.

For my desktop OS I prefer Windows and then run other OSs virtualized either on my Widows box with an Android VM or on my TruNAS box for things that run 24/7.

Morris

I use Linux for my user machines and FreeBSD for my servers with no GUI so I'm very much a command line type guy. Even on Linux my UI is started much later by me issuing a command after login.

Though right now I think I need to work more on camera settings and understanding and adjusting myself to the location. I find RawTherapee works really well for my needs up till now but perhaps finding a good way to denoise maybe the next stage in post.

The issue is good noise reduction requires a large investment in developer time and there dose not seem to be a large enough market to develop noise reduction for Linux.

When I started using computers there was no GUI and I'm fine using command line when I need to. I prefer a GUI as it saves me time looking things up for tasks I don't do frequently.

Morris

I'm not sure if you've seen my other thread in the landscape section but I mentioned that I have a medical condition and probably due to that, I don't get on very well with graphical point and click systems.

For now if I can just get some good shots with my camera(s) it will be fantastic. It took a lot of effort and energy to be able to get to this place on Wed. even though it was just so much fun.

Right now I just want to be able to head out there comfortable as yesterday I ended up from severe exhaustion and a bad headache. Today I still felt exhausted though I wanted to get out there again but thought it would be wiser not to push myself.

That sound tough. At least you are still able to get out once in a while and have fun. I hope that continues and/or improves.

Morris

 

[kayasaman]

Hi there,

The first bird is a Buzzard which will often soar on the same thermal being used by Red Kite as both want to gain height with minimal effort. See how short and unforked the tail is compared with a Red Kite. It's altogether a chunkier, more heavily built bird.

All your pictures seem to have the highlights blown out so more negative compensation was probably needed. I've got a D850 and after moving from Canon I found that blown highlights were more of a problem than dark shadows as the shadows can be lifted quite well on that sensor. which is a full frame version f what you have I believe (but may be wrong).

The birds are all small in the frame so you are going to struggle with quality as not many pixels are involved. I think the Buzzard seems to have motion blur. In sunny weather I'd get up about 1000th of a second to make sure a moving bird is sharp. I'd go even higher on the D850.

If you can get a bird closer, the shutter speed higher, use just the centre focus point and make sure you don't blow out the highlights you should be in a better position to see what else could be corrected. The lens is rather short for wild flying birds unless they have a reason to come closer, like ones that are used to being fed.

Are you taking RAW? If not do that as it'll give you a bit more dynamic range. Use a noise reduction plug in like Topaz DeNoise AI to make the best of the pictures in high ISO.

If you want to take more birds maybe look for a second hand 150-600 mm lens and if you prefer the Pentax, get one in that mount although the D500 produces very good pictures in many people's hands.

If you are interested and let me know where you are I or someone else might be able to suggest places to go where you might get closer to birds with your existing gear.

Thanks for the response!

I don't know birds or foliage at all so I need to start learning that too.... unfortunately for me due to so many medical issues this is the first time that I'm really getting out in many years

I know the D500 has the same AF as the D5 but as to sensor I am not sure. Overall it's a far faster camera then the Pentax which is a must for birds or any type of moving wildlife. I love my Pentax but find that it's AF just doesn't work for me on anything moving.

Actually, I bought the D500 as it's far faster camera then my Pentax K1 and has better lens choice. I want to get the Sigma 60-600mm but that's been on the waiting list for a while.

I know 300mm on FF or APS-C is too short in general but I didn't think it would be this bad.

I did actually shoot RAW and have used RawTherapee on the images. As I'm a Linux user I'm not sure if Topaz DeNoise is available for this platform? I'll have to check that out. I turn denoise on in RT but even the landscape images I took are a little crunchy including the ones at ISO100. If I start using Median transforms then I loose detail as it blurs those components.

I can definitely say that the D500 has a much noisier sensor then my Pentax so I need to figure out how to get the best image from the camera.

I also agree that the D500 can produce fantastic results but as of yet I'm not aware or sure of how to obtain them.

Like I mentioned, this was my first trip ever with my cameras outside (though my Pentax got no use and was left in the trunk). There is still a long way to go in understanding the cameras and surroundings not to mention type and behavior of wildlife.

Topaz products will work on files from any camera. You should consider DxO Photo Lab to address noise. It's prime noise reduction is superb.

Morris

I didn't mean that it will not work on the camera, I was referring to the computer operating system as I am in the niche category. I don't run Apple OSX or Windows which means that my choice of closed source software is far less as not everyone develops software for Linux.

Possibly Wine would increase your choices. Another option is to virtualize and you need to think about GPU access either by making Windows or IOS the primary OS running doing GPU passthrough. Much of your decision would be based on how you use Linux.

For my desktop OS I prefer Windows and then run other OSs virtualized either on my Widows box with an Android VM or on my TruNAS box for things that run 24/7.

Morris

I use Linux for my user machines and FreeBSD for my servers with no GUI so I'm very much a command line type guy. Even on Linux my UI is started much later by me issuing a command after login.

Though right now I think I need to work more on camera settings and understanding and adjusting myself to the location. I find RawTherapee works really well for my needs up till now but perhaps finding a good way to denoise maybe the next stage in post.

The issue is good noise reduction requires a large investment in developer time and there dose not seem to be a large enough market to develop noise reduction for Linux.

When I started using computers there was no GUI and I'm fine using command line when I need to. I prefer a GUI as it saves me time looking things up for tasks I don't do frequently.

Morris

I'm not sure if you've seen my other thread in the landscape section but I mentioned that I have a medical condition and probably due to that, I don't get on very well with graphical point and click systems.

For now if I can just get some good shots with my camera(s) it will be fantastic. It took a lot of effort and energy to be able to get to this place on Wed. even though it was just so much fun.

Right now I just want to be able to head out there comfortable as yesterday I ended up from severe exhaustion and a bad headache. Today I still felt exhausted though I wanted to get out there again but thought it would be wiser not to push myself.

That sound tough. At least you are still able to get out once in a while and have fun. I hope that continues and/or improves.

Morris

Thank you. Yes it has been a nightmare, especially living in the center of a busy city, since I am not good with crowds or stress at all.

Photography has really helped but the friends that I have made through first astro photography and now expanding my horizons to landscape and wildlife have been absolutely invaluable.

I just can't thank everyone enough

 

[ThrillaMozilla]

Oh, boy, where to start?

You camera is one of the finest ever made. No need to worry about dynamic range.

The lens? Don't know, but the first picture looks like it needed a focal length longer than 135 mm.

Spot metering. Why? That requires careful use and good knowledge of how to use it. Your exposures are way off. You're using a meter, then ignoring it by setting various EC values. You would have done far better with just about any averaging or intelligent metering that your camera offers.

Area AF? Why? For the sheep you want to focus on a VERY specific area.

Why did you use 1/1000 sec with 135 mm on a sheep that is just standing there? Try 1/500 or 1/250 and hold the camera steady.

...One thing I have noticed is that this camera and lens combination don't seem to produce fine details. It could me... or it could be the sensor not having a high enough dynamic range? I am not sure ?? My FF Pentax K1 mkii is far superior in this region - though I elected not to use it for this run.

No, no, no. Just use the D500. Put it on auto everything, and everything will be 1000% better.

...The D500 has quite a noisy sensor compared to my Pentax K1.

No. It's one of the best.

https://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/RN_e.htm#Nikon D500_14,Pentax K-1_14
I can't tell for sure why your birds are so fuzzy. Did you reduce the size of the photos or did you crop? We can't tell what you have done unless you post the picture straight out of the camera.

It looks like the birds are very distant, little dots and you cropped a very small portion out of the center. In this case it would probably require take a very good, VERY long lens and very good technique.

The worse problem is your processing of the photos. The sky pictures are badly botched. I don't know what you did, but the contrast is MUCH too high, and I don't know how the sky could possibly be so badly vignetted. You would do much better to post pictures straight out of the camera.

By now other people have probably told you this.

I'm not going to sugar coat this. To be honest, you have done many things wrong. I think you need to start over and learn some basics of photography from the beginning. It's not that difficult, but if you get it wrong, it's wrong.

 

[Red Barchetta]

For the bif shots, I would suggest shooting in RAW with a wide open aper to increase the light and detail and advance the shutter to at least 1/1250 if not 1/1600 sec. Software can deal with any increase in noise. I would also suggest a bigger lens for birding. 300 mm is on the short side. Always go for the sharpness with a fast s.s. or else you just have a blurry shot that can't be repaired. Also, when shooting the pic, try to zoom in as much as possible to fill the frame so you don't have to crop as much. Of course if something is far away you're compelled to crop in but you have to be careful of how much you do so. Cross the line and it goes from sharp to blurry. GL.

 

[ThrillaMozilla]

I did actually shoot RAW and have used RawTherapee on the images. As I'm a Linux user I'm not sure if Topaz DeNoise is available for this platform?

Topaz software won't help with this. The images are too far gone for that. I don't think even shooting raw will help.

I'll have to check that out. I turn denoise on in RT but even the landscape images I took are a little crunchy including the ones at ISO100.

You do not need to obsess on noise with a D500 at ISO 100! Just forget about that completely.

If I start using Median transforms then I loose detail as it blurs those components.

What?

I can definitely say that the D500 has a much noisier sensor then my Pentax so I need to figure out how to get the best image from the camera.

No. See my earlier post. Sorry, you are using it wrong. And noise is the least of your worries with these pictures.

 

[kayasaman]

Oh, boy, where to start?

You camera is one of the finest ever made. No need to worry about dynamic range.

The lens? Don't know, but the first picture looks like it needed a focal length longer than 135 mm.

Spot metering. Why? That requires careful use and good knowledge of how to use it. Your exposures are way off. You're using a meter, then ignoring it by setting various EC values. You would have done far better with just about any averaging or intelligent metering that your camera offers.

Area AF? Why? For the sheep you want to focus on a VERY specific area.

Why did you use 1/1000 sec with 135 mm on a sheep that is just standing there? Try 1/500 or 1/250 and hold the camera steady.

...One thing I have noticed is that this camera and lens combination don't seem to produce fine details. It could me... or it could be the sensor not having a high enough dynamic range? I am not sure ?? My FF Pentax K1 mkii is far superior in this region - though I elected not to use it for this run.

No, no, no. Just use the D500. Put it on auto everything, and everything will be 1000% better.

...The D500 has quite a noisy sensor compared to my Pentax K1.

No. It's one of the best.

https://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/RN_e.htm#Nikon D500_14,Pentax K-1_14

I can't tell for sure why your birds are so fuzzy. Did you reduce the size of the photos or did you crop? We can't tell what you have done unless you post the picture straight out of the camera.

It looks like the birds are very distant, little dots and you cropped a very small portion out of the center. In this case it would probably require take a very good, VERY long lens and very good technique.

The worse problem is your processing of the photos. The sky pictures are badly botched. I don't know what you did, but the contrast is MUCH too high, and I don't know how the sky could possibly be so badly vignetted. You would do much better to post pictures straight out of the camera.

By now other people have probably told you this.

I'm not going to sugar coat this. To be honest, you have done many things wrong. I think you need to start over and learn some basics of photography from the beginning. It's not that difficult, but if you get it wrong, it's wrong.

The images were shot in RAW and processed a little. I let the software do auto adjustments but that hasn't really effected the overall image.









Nothing has been cropped at all!



Also for the sheep why use such a fast shutter? I even used 1/1000s for a snail... the reason is that I shake and wobble too much which means motion blur even at 1/1000s if not careful

 

[kayasaman]

Oh, boy, where to start?

You camera is one of the finest ever made. No need to worry about dynamic range.

The lens? Don't know, but the first picture looks like it needed a focal length longer than 135 mm.

Spot metering. Why? That requires careful use and good knowledge of how to use it. Your exposures are way off. You're using a meter, then ignoring it by setting various EC values. You would have done far better with just about any averaging or intelligent metering that your camera offers.

Area AF? Why? For the sheep you want to focus on a VERY specific area.

Why did you use 1/1000 sec with 135 mm on a sheep that is just standing there? Try 1/500 or 1/250 and hold the camera steady.

...One thing I have noticed is that this camera and lens combination don't seem to produce fine details. It could me... or it could be the sensor not having a high enough dynamic range? I am not sure ?? My FF Pentax K1 mkii is far superior in this region - though I elected not to use it for this run.

No, no, no. Just use the D500. Put it on auto everything, and everything will be 1000% better.

...The D500 has quite a noisy sensor compared to my Pentax K1.

No. It's one of the best.

https://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/RN_e.htm#Nikon D500_14,Pentax K-1_14

I can't tell for sure why your birds are so fuzzy. Did you reduce the size of the photos or did you crop? We can't tell what you have done unless you post the picture straight out of the camera.

It looks like the birds are very distant, little dots and you cropped a very small portion out of the center. In this case it would probably require take a very good, VERY long lens and very good technique.

The worse problem is your processing of the photos. The sky pictures are badly botched. I don't know what you did, but the contrast is MUCH too high, and I don't know how the sky could possibly be so badly vignetted. You would do much better to post pictures straight out of the camera.

By now other people have probably told you this.

I'm not going to sugar coat this. To be honest, you have done many things wrong. I think you need to start over and learn some basics of photography from the beginning. It's not that difficult, but if you get it wrong, it's wrong.

The images were shot in RAW and processed a little. I let the software do auto adjustments but that hasn't really effected the overall image.



Nothing has been cropped at all!

Also for the sheep why use such a fast shutter? I even used 1/1000s for a snail... the reason is that I shake and wobble too much which means motion blur even at 1/1000s if not careful

No processing:

 

[kayasaman]

Oh, boy, where to start?

You camera is one of the finest ever made. No need to worry about dynamic range.

The lens? Don't know, but the first picture looks like it needed a focal length longer than 135 mm.

Spot metering. Why? That requires careful use and good knowledge of how to use it. Your exposures are way off. You're using a meter, then ignoring it by setting various EC values. You would have done far better with just about any averaging or intelligent metering that your camera offers.

Area AF? Why? For the sheep you want to focus on a VERY specific area.

Why did you use 1/1000 sec with 135 mm on a sheep that is just standing there? Try 1/500 or 1/250 and hold the camera steady.

...One thing I have noticed is that this camera and lens combination don't seem to produce fine details. It could me... or it could be the sensor not having a high enough dynamic range? I am not sure ?? My FF Pentax K1 mkii is far superior in this region - though I elected not to use it for this run.

No, no, no. Just use the D500. Put it on auto everything, and everything will be 1000% better.

...The D500 has quite a noisy sensor compared to my Pentax K1.

No. It's one of the best.

https://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/RN_e.htm#Nikon D500_14,Pentax K-1_14

I can't tell for sure why your birds are so fuzzy. Did you reduce the size of the photos or did you crop? We can't tell what you have done unless you post the picture straight out of the camera.

It looks like the birds are very distant, little dots and you cropped a very small portion out of the center. In this case it would probably require take a very good, VERY long lens and very good technique.

The worse problem is your processing of the photos. The sky pictures are badly botched. I don't know what you did, but the contrast is MUCH too high, and I don't know how the sky could possibly be so badly vignetted. You would do much better to post pictures straight out of the camera.

By now other people have probably told you this.

I'm not going to sugar coat this. To be honest, you have done many things wrong. I think you need to start over and learn some basics of photography from the beginning. It's not that difficult, but if you get it wrong, it's wrong.

The images were shot in RAW and processed a little. I let the software do auto adjustments but that hasn't really effected the overall image.



Nothing has been cropped at all!

Also for the sheep why use such a fast shutter? I even used 1/1000s for a snail... the reason is that I shake and wobble too much which means motion blur even at 1/1000s if not careful

No processing:

Actually it seems at shutter 1/1000s things get more blurry! This is a 100% zoom f/8 ISO125 and S1/1000s:

 

[Peter M J]

Like you I have problems with shaking and also balance problems To overcome this I usually have the camera on at least a monopod I use a much higher ISO and shutter speed than you do ( even on static subjects ) As other people have said you need to be quite expert to use spot metering and you need to get closer to the subject - especially with a lens which is only 300mm I used to go where gulls were being fed to get closer to them




Much higher ISO and Shutter speedCloser but still cropped




High shutter speed and ISO

Regards

Peter

 

[kayasaman]

Like you I have problems with shaking and also balance problems To overcome this I usually have the camera on at least a monopod I use a much higher ISO and shutter speed than you do ( even on static subjects ) As other people have said you need to be quite expert to use spot metering and you need to get closer to the subject - especially with a lens which is only 300mm I used to go where gulls were being fed to get closer to them


Much higher ISO and Shutter speedCloser but still cropped


High shutter speed and ISO

Regards

Peter

These are great shots!



Part of the issue was the "auto" mode that is automatically set in RawTherapee. For some reason that messed up things quite badly. Even with that dialed out I am still getting blur









and noise! Contrary to what ThrillaMozilla is saying.



I use my Pentax K1 for astro photography mainly - I have been doing this for over a year now and I find that I don't even need bias or dark calibration frames with it. Flat frames yes to combat vignetting but the sensor is *that* good.

With my D500 I can always see granular noise in the shots. Most apparent on blue sky. I guess I'm what you may call a Pixel Peeper as I always expect the 100% zoom to be as good if not better then a medium format.



Sure I still have to learn the D500 as I have really only had it since July as the K1's AF just could not keep up with any moving object. Maybe in time I will learn how to get the best out of the camera as I know it's a capable camera and even held off going for the new Canon Rx series of APS-C cameras as it is a tried and tested battle machine.

 

[kayasaman]

If I start using Median transforms then I loose detail as it blurs those components.

What?

See the right hand side - median filter. To get into more detail noise normally occurs within the 1st and 2nd wavelets - I have been denoising astro images for a while now and they get heavily affected by noise due to low SnR. Sure I use PixInsight which is a dedicated astro software but still you won't find worse noise anywhere then when there is such little signal:

 

[ThrillaMozilla]

OK, I saw your Google Photos site. Those pictures are much better. I stand by what I wrote previously, but at least you didn't make the same obvious mistakes with those pictures.

I'll just say, birds are hard. They're small, fast, and far away. They're quite a challenge.

It may be that a longer lens will help. But longer lenses are harder to use. I'm hesitant to make a recommendation without studying the pictures a lot more.

Most of the pictures would benefit from some kind of sharpening. I'm not an expert on this, but I am very particular about results. I have had success with Topaz Sharpen AI for Windows.

Linux. I use it with Gimp and RawTherapee, and would prefer to use it for everything. Alas, I have not had any success using Windows image processing programs on Linux. Wine might work, but it doesn't for me. Neither Canon Digital Photo Professional, FastRawViewer, nor Topaz programs work for me, so I just use Windows for that. And I'm not sure any of those programs would work without a mouse. Bummer.

 

[kayasaman]

OK, I saw your Google Photos site. Those pictures are much better. I stand by what I wrote previously, but at least you didn't make the same obvious mistakes with those pictures.

I'll just say, birds are hard. They're small, fast, and far away. They're quite a challenge.

It may be that a longer lens will help. But longer lenses are harder to use. I'm hesitant to make a recommendation without studying the pictures a lot more.

Most of the pictures would benefit from some kind of sharpening. I'm not an expert on this, but I am very particular about results. I have had success with Topaz Sharpen AI for Windows.

Linux. I use it with Gimp and RawTherapee, and would prefer to use it for everything. Alas, I have not had any success using Windows image processing programs on Linux. Wine might work, but it doesn't for me. Neither Canon Digital Photo Professional, FastRawViewer, nor Topaz programs work for me, so I just use Windows for that. And I'm not sure any of those programs would work without a mouse. Bummer.

I understand you initial comments as I can feel the passion!

I did mention that this is my first ever time out with my cameras. It actually is very easy for me to become panicked then loose track of everything.

Partly the auto stuff in RT was to blame. I turned the Auto Curves adjustments off but still need to find the setting to turn the Auto Exposure stuff off too.

It still doesn't help that the subjects are not sharp.

With my Pentax and the 300mm lens I have with it - it is a sharp lens being part of the * range but the AF just kills it. I found that I had to put in a severe AF adjustment all the way towards the negative just to get results to be semi viewable.

Sure the birds are small in frame which doesn't help but even the gull I caught a few months ago didn't come out well and that was large in frame.

Maybe gimbal and tripod ?? uh... I mean I decided to leave my Pentax and tripod in the car rather then take them with me. I was probably not comfortable enough but next time the landscape images will be far superior using the K1.

Under Wine the only thing that I have got to work is Sequator which is used for astro stacking. There is also one more thing meant for planets and celestial bodies which works but can't remember what it's called now.

I'm gona keep going back to this place and working at things. Maybe a higher shutter of ~1/1500s area like suggested will help. Let's see

 

[ThrillaMozilla]

No processing:

Oh, that's MUCH better! That appears to be shot at 1/500 sec with a 300 mm lens and a 1.5x extender.

I have hundreds of shots that aren't any better, and some that I count as very good. It's normal to have many more near-misses than successes.

I can't be entirely sure what's wrong with it. It's pretty good, although a bit fuzzy. Sharpening software doesn't deal with it perfectly. I think there's a little motion blurring. A tripod or monopod might help. A faster shutter speed might help. Noise is not a problem, in my opinion.

I think the contrast is set a little too high. Lower contrast would allow a little more visibility of detail in the black underside. It's not bad, though. Birds against the sky are difficult, and sometimes they just don't come out at all.

 

[ThrillaMozilla]

and noise! Contrary to what ThrillaMozilla is saying.

Well, if you magnify enough and use enough contrast you can always see noise. But in my opinion noise is the least of your problems with these images.

I use my Pentax K1 for astro photography mainly - I have been doing this for over a year now and I find that I don't even need bias or dark calibration frames with it. Flat frames yes to combat vignetting but the sensor is *that* good.

With my D500 I can always see granular noise in the shots. Most apparent on blue sky. I guess I'm what you may call a Pixel Peeper as I always expect the 100% zoom to be as good if not better then a medium format.

A full frame camera such as the Pentax can give less noise, but that's because it would normally be used with a lens that has a larger aperture diameter at the same field of view. The lens collects the light, not the camera. In other words, it requires a larger, normally much more expensive lens to realize any noise advantage.

And as you note, the Pentax is not the best camera for flying birds. There is a reason the D500 is so popular for that use.

I would emphasize, though, that birds in flight are a bottomless money pit.