Several questions on monitor profile and color management

[xyknewtry]

I'm using a PC with Windows XP SP3. The monitor is a DELL 2408WFP. I recently purchased i1 Display 2 for monitor calibration. After several hours of learning and trying, the monitor was calibrated and profiled for the first time.

Then on my PC when I went to Display Properties --> Settings --> Advanced --> Color Management, I noticed no matter what profile I set as the default, or even removed the profile, the wallpaper image on my desktop never changed its appearance.

Question 1 - I know windows doesn't manage color systematically. Does this mean whatever mechanism Windows XP use to display the wallpaper, it is not color managed?

Question 2 - Then what is the purpose of setting a default monitor profile here? Just to notify color-mangement enabled applications of what monitor profile to use?

In Canon's Digital Photo Professional, I set up the monitor profile to be the one created by i1 Display 2. Did the same thing for Firefox. Now the same picture looked the same in DPP and Firefox. It looked different in IE8 (colors were more saturated), as expected since IE8 is not color managed. What's surprising was when I opened the same picture in Photoshop 5.0 (not CS 5, yes I know it is really old), it had the same look as in IE8! In PS I opened up Edit/Color Settings, expanded the RGB profile list, but I didn't see the monitor profile listed there.

Question 3 - Is Photoshop 5.0 too old to work with the i1 Display 2 created profile?

Question 4 - Is there a way to "force" PS5.0 to use the monitor profile for display purposes?

Thanks a lot in advance folks!

 

[xyknewtry]

Wouldn't allow me to edit again for some reason.

Just to clarify, when I check in PS5.0, Color settings --> RGB setup, I do see "Monitor RGB" at the top of the list, but it doesn't display the profile name that's currently set as the system default. Just plainly "Monitor RGB".

 

[Barrie Davis]

Question 3 - Is Photoshop 5.0 too old to work with the i1 Display 2 created profile?

Photoshop 5 is old.. it is the last version that is non-colour-managed. It uses the monitor's colour gamut as its working space.... which of course is non-standard, so any editing you do will not necessarily look the same on anybody else's monitor...

.. and more importantly, neither will any prints you outsource.

Question 4 - Is there a way to "force" PS5.0 to use the monitor profile for display purposes?

If thihgs are working as they should, PS.5.0 IS actually using the monitor profile because it is loaded into the look up table (LUT) of the video card at boot up. As it happens, so is every other application running on the computer, whether it needs a calibtrated display, or not (in the case of word processors and spreadsheets, that'll be mostly/not/.....)

... but you are not getting the advantage of it in your picture editing because your version of PS doesn't have a device independent working space in which to edit, which space is normally completely independent of the monitor (version 6 onwards). Your PS therefore remains dependant on the monitor you have for its working/editing space...

... and that sample of monitor is just as unique to you now -- that it is profiled -- as it was before it was profiled.

My advice? Get newer version off PS, or even Elements, which is no slouch of a program. And then, when you have it, select a working colour space to edit in which is shared by the other people who are likely to see your pictures on a screen (sRGB)... or print them for you on a wider gamut printer... (Adobe RGB 1998).
--
Regards,
Baz

"Ahh... But the thing is, they were not just ORDINARY time travellers!"

 

[xyknewtry]

Thanks Barrie. So you are saying "color managed" doesn't mean the ability to use a monitor profile for display? But rather the characteristic of having a "device-independent" color workspace? Is the sRGB I can set in PS5.0 device dependant?

And can anyone comment on my questions 1 and 2? And in DPP, shall I set the "Color Matching settings" to using the monitor profile?

 

[Barrie Davis]

Thanks Barrie. So you are saying "color managed" doesn't mean the ability to use a monitor profile for display?

As stated, the monitor profile is loaded at system level, (the OS of the computer) and all output goes through the monitor profile en-route to the screen, whether you want it to or not...

...(you DO want it, of course...the profile makes you monitor perform better.)...

.....that is unless you specially set out to defeat it by selecting a different profile in those Photoshop versions which ARE colour managed.... a process known as "soft-proofing" most often used to simulate on-screen what a particular printer profile would look like, if applied to a picture file and subsequently printed... (the on-screen preview saves paper and ink, another thing that colour management can do.)

But rather the characteristic of having a "device-independent" color workspace?

Yes.

Is the sRGB I can set in PS5.0 device dependant?

sRGB is a device INdependent colour space that represents a lowest common denominator, a slightly restricted space that virtually all display monitors can achieve, making it the default space for images to be viewed on the web... although some monitors can achieve slightly better, and your monitor is probably one of those.

That said, sRGB makes a good standard to prepare your images in, unless you can identify good reasons for choosing a different, wider, colour space for your image purposes....

... bearing in mind that you are only getting an approximation of sRGB because PS 5.0 is editing in a device DEpendant space... (your monitor's space.)

Unfortunately, it is now so long ago, (and I only learned about PS 5.0 colour control in a context of how it was different and inferior to PS 6.0, my first editing purchase) I cannot remember where sRGB might be "set" in PS 5.0. Remind me please, and I will attempt to help you.

Mind you, I think you can help yourself BEST by getting a PS version with colour management.. otherwise the profile you have generated is rather wasted for the job of colour editing, which is more or less the main reason for having it.... (shrugs).

And can anyone comment on my questions 1 and 2? And in DPP, shall I set the "Color Matching settings" to using the monitor profile?

--
Regards,
Baz

"Ahh... But the thing is, they were not just ORDINARY time travellers!"

 

[xyknewtry]

Photoshop is on my purchase list, but that'll be a while due to budget issues. As I just recently came into digital photography, I'm not yet doing very heavy post-processing, and what limited post-processing I do, it is mostly done in Canon's DPP.

You've stated that no matter if the application allows me to set a monitor profile or not, the system default monitor profile set in Windows XP have effect on how images look in that application on screen. In the case with DPP, setting the profile or not in DPP does make a difference on how the same image look. Then does setting it in DPP actually make the profile being applied "twice"? If that's the case, then I wonder what is the purpose of this option in DPP?

 

[Barrie Davis]

Photoshop is on my purchase list, but that'll be a while due to budget issues. As I just recently came into digital photography, I'm not yet doing very heavy post-processing, and what limited post-processing I do, it is mostly done in Canon's DPP.

You've stated that no matter if the application allows me to set a monitor profile or not, the system default monitor profile set in Windows XP have effect on how images look in that application on screen. In the case with DPP, setting the profile or not in DPP does make a difference on how the same image look. Then does setting it in DPP actually make the profile being applied "twice"? If that's the case, then I wonder what is the purpose of this option in DPP?

I am sorry. DPP is a program I know nothing about, so I am not the person to help you, I'm afraid.

I suggest you re-post in the Retouching Forum, where there is wider knowledge of colour management in general, if not of DPP in particular. However, any background you get there will help in interpreting the instruction that DPP provides concerning how it handles profiles, etc.

Best wishes, and good luck with it.
--
Regards,
Baz

"Ahh... But the thing is, they were not just ORDINARY time travellers!"

 

[xyknewtry]

I really appreciate your help Barrie. Will try the retouching forum.