SD800IS - Why oh why the smaller sensor???

[malcolm82]

There is no reason to use a smaller sensor since it doesnt have any advantages except the illusion of a larger aperture.

 

[Matthew Miller]

There is no reason to use a smaller sensor since it doesnt have any
advantages except the illusion of a larger aperture.

Also it's probably cheaper to produce, requires less from the optics (= cheaper), and in a camera this size, being actually smaller may actually count for something.

 

[malcolm82]

Also it's probably cheaper to produce, requires less from the
optics (= cheaper), and in a camera this size, being actually
smaller may actually count for something.

I think the price difference will be too small to care about, definately less than $10 from 1/2.5 to 1/1.8 and to 2/3.
I dont see why it would require less from the optics, could you explain that?

 

[Nathan Yan]

Also it's probably cheaper to produce, requires less from the
optics (= cheaper), and in a camera this size, being actually
smaller may actually count for something.

I think the price difference will be too small to care about,
definately less than $10 from 1/2.5 to 1/1.8 and to 2/3.
I dont see why it would require less from the optics, could you
explain that?

Well a smaller sensor would need less glass to cover the area of the sesnor. Less glass means cheaper, and easier to manage imperfections (which is why the little compact lenses seem to be much better from standpoints like distortion and vignetting compared to big huge SLR glass.

 

[malcolm82]

I would want a lens of the same size on the bigger sensor, like instead of an F/2 on 1/2.5 an F/3 on 2/3. You just use a higher iso setting on the 2/3, the advantage of the bigger sensor is that you now have a 1/2.5 iso 40 equivalent mode.

 

[Justme]

Oops. I didn't see this thread on the SD800 IS.

I plan to get this camera. My last Elph was a S400 which was a great little cam with nice colours, easy to use but kind of slow in AF. I've lost touch with the Elph series since getting the S400. What is the model that the SD800 replaced and how good is it?

--

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[bibi0012]

SD800IS isn't the follow up model for SD550 (Ixus750).
SD900 is.

Judging by the Canon P&S that uses UA lens elements, I predict that SD800IS won't deliever the kind of image quality that your IXUS750 deliever.

SD800IS has UA lens element to achieve 28mm in an ultra thin body.

You can't have everything. Something must give. In this case, it's the image quality you are trading.

 

[instink]

Thanks for the informative reply. You would think image quality would be no.1 in all markets, and all other features ar secondary... oh well, thats the way supply and demand works i guess

 

[YaoYao]

actually i also think manufacturer wun send to market the BEST camera with everything a consumer wants, haha.

Economy wise, it will reduce the market size, since with the BEST camera, everyone will buy only ONE camera. With two cameras, some might have 2, and there's a higher chance that ppl supporting other brands will buy UR camera as the number of camera u send to market increase.

Correct me if i am wrong, economist.

 

[tjdean01]

I like both of your complaints and feel the same way! I want IS, but why would I want a crappy tiny sensor when I could get the big one! So, you have to choose.

But, I can answer why they don't offer the IS on a 1/1.8" CCD: the lens would have to be different. Look at the 800: it has 4x zoom, IS, and 3 cm macro. The 900, with its bigger sensor, doesn't have room for all that, so it gets the lens with less zoom, no IS, and 5 cm macro. I can't explain too well what I mean but I do can say that do accomodate a larger sensor you need more space.

And that's all too bad for us But, they needed to make the 10 MP to compete with the other companies. They need the IS to compete with other IS cameras. The ideal would be another 6 or 7 MP on the 1/1.8" CCD but that camera has already been made and gone out of style.

With today's technology I'd like to see Canon go retro sometime and stick 4 or 5 MP on a 1/1.8" CCD and make an ELPH with the picture quality of a DSLR! With the large pixels coupled with today's noise reduction on an ISO 200 shot, IS would be unnecessary! Or, stick IS on a 1/2.5" CCD with a non zoom less!

 

[Dr. Leonard]

My guess is they looked at the competition. Panasonic has a 28mm IS lens with a 1/2.5" sensor.

 

[PoWeR389345]

Same as the Ricoh R5.
--
Ricoh R5 or Pan FX07 ?

 

[Archiver]

With today's technology I'd like to see Canon go retro sometime and
stick 4 or 5 MP on a 1/1.8" CCD and make an ELPH with the picture
quality of a DSLR! With the large pixels coupled with today's
noise reduction on an ISO 200 shot, IS would be unnecessary! Or,
stick IS on a 1/2.5" CCD with a non zoom less!

That would be an absolute dream. My 4mp S45 produces beautifully clean, sharp photos that look far nicer than many of today's higher-megapixel offerings. A 'modernized' (hah!) version in an Elph/Ixus body would be awesome.

I'd love to see Canon do something like Ricoh's GR-D, but smaller. A large sensor of decent resolution with a high quality wide angle fixed lens. Put that in a compact body if possible, and you'd have a 'real' camera, not these ever-flawed 'feed the masses' endless variations.

I had a look at the 800IS samples, and I'm not impressed. They seem to be weirdly lacking in detail at the pixelpeeping level, which translates to a subtle but noticeable difference when compared with larger sensor/lower mp shots from my S45, or even my S70.

If you don't count AF accuracy and speed, the S45, S70, G2/3 produced some of the best quality images in town. Clean, clear, sharp and colourful. This new crop doesn't seem to cut it, IMO.
--
Archiver - Recording the sights and sounds of life
http://www.flickr.com/photos/archiver/

 

[kdd]

Economic 101!!! If one camera is perfect, the rest will collect dusts. Why we all lurk around her and chatting and looking to upgrade? Upgrade is what all manufacturers (car, house, etc.) want ot hear. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Thomas K.]

... the 1/2.5" sensor is a real weak point and my reason not to buy the sd800IS.
regards thomas

 

[loafer]

Actually the images from the 800is ought to look just as good pixel for pixel as the 900. The IS will make this camera more useful - and like others have posted you would not have been able to pack this lens into this size format with the larger sensor. The 6mp 700 is should not have any fall off in image quality either and lets face facts the IS is much more valuable at the long end than the short.

 

[Lee Jay]

... the 1/2.5" sensor is a real weak point and my reason not to buy
the sd800IS.

Do you realize the 1/1.8" sensor is only 1.25x (linear dimension) bigger than the 1/2.5" sensor (same as the difference between the 5D and the 1DII)?

That amounts to 2/3 of a stop of performance at the same level of detail.

--
Lee Jay
(see profile for equipment)

 

[Matthew Miller]

Do you realize the 1/1.8" sensor is only 1.25x (linear dimension)
bigger than the 1/2.5" sensor (same as the difference between the
5D and the 1DII)?

However, in two dimensions, it's 1.55x (going by the size values in the dpr glossary). Since the sensor is a 2d surface, not a line that's the number that matters, isn't it? The bigger sensor receives 55% more light.

 

[Matthew Miller]

Actually the images from the 800is ought to look just as good pixel
for pixel as the 900. The IS will make this camera more useful -

So, if the images look just as good pixel-for-pixel, the images from the 900 resampled down to

the 800is's 7.1mpix resolution should look significantly better , right? In fact, about 40% better, as that's the increase in number of pixels, and if each pixel is about the same in quality in both cases....

In order for the 800is to produce better image quality overall, it's got to have picture quality on the order of 40% better if you consider per pixel, minus a bit for whatever you loose in the rounding errors from downsizing.

Right?

 

[tjdean01]

That would be an absolute dream. My 4mp S45 produces beautifully
clean, sharp photos that look far nicer than many of today's
higher-megapixel offerings. A 'modernized' (hah!) version in an
Elph/Ixus body would be awesome.

Oh yeah, that would be great! I got the s400, the s45's little brother and still use the thing! The s45 is too big, too bad the s90 will have 200%+ the megapixels on the same chip!

I had a look at the 800IS samples, and I'm not impressed. They
seem to be weirdly lacking in detail at the pixelpeeping level,
which translates to a subtle but noticeable difference when
compared with larger sensor/lower mp shots from my S45, or even my
S70.

Yeah, I didn't bother to mention it, but the pictures look soft. The eyebrow hair, etc.