Say NO to Post processing!

[Kenny126764]

You post some controversial discussion, you should expect something like this. You should've posted your little "history" with photography as well at the beginning. It's time to start learning if you're switching to digital. You can't avoid even a little post processing when you're in digital. For example resizing for the web. But I'm sure an experienced(25 years) photographer like you, would get the most accurate exposure most of the time. You should not worried about post processing. Sorry about you being called ignorant. But I'm sure the "guy" meant you're ignorant to say for people to do NO post processing and judging a camera's ability. ANyway, 300D comes with ADOBE software which is very good. Good luck with your switch. Peace.

 

[kyle1745]

Make some actions that use the normal things you do, it reduces the processing time a bunch.

Post Processing is the benefit of digital, its the best part in my opinion.
--
Kyle
Sony F707
http://www.kylesphotos.com

 

[Andy Watkins]

Thanks, having a play now!

Andy

 

[Petteri Sulonen]

gah1 wrote:
[snip]

...you should do fine. The camera set at JPEG Fine and Daylight (or RAW with default conversion settings) behaves very much like one of the more neutral slide films (such as Provia). Get your exposure right, and post-processing is optional.

Petteri (neg shooter who likes to post-process...)
--



[ http://www.prime-junta.tk ]

 

[DMahoney]

Man, next time I try to describe how I use my Rebel, I am just going to link to your post! That about sums me up!
And said much better than I have been able to so far. Thanks!

Don

I guess I'm different than a lot of folks on the forum. I take
lots of "snapshots" with my rebel. That's why I got it. I love
the fast focus, the TTL viewfinder, the ability to change lenses
for different types of "snapshots", and the DOF control. My
snapshots are becoming much more like photographs as I learn and
grow with the camera.

Do I post process? Depends on what you mean by post process. I
always crop pictures that I'm going to print. Why? 2 reasons - 1)
I work on how I compose my snapshots, but I'm still learning and
often can better compose a shot after the fact (that is becoming
less and less often, because I learn more about composing each time
I do this, so my composing from behind the lens becomes better) -
2) an 8x10 vs a 5x7 vs a 4x6 have different aspect ratios which I
can't allow a print shop to crop (they always lop off the top of a
head or the side of the image that I want to keep). I don't really
consider this post processing, but it is the same work I did on my
Sony 707 before the DR.

The other time I post process is if I have somehow taken a true
photograph! It surprises me when one come out, but that's good (I
think it means I'm getting better). With that picture I might have
one to hand on the wall (not in the basement, where my snapshots
seem to show up, but in the family room). With those, I take some
time and play with it to make it just what I want. I'm not yet a
raw person, because my main need is for snapshots, but when I have
these few photographs I process I wish I had take them in raw.

So what do I want? I want to use raw, download the pictures into a
folder, and press ONE button to create a set of JPEGs of those raw
photos. These would be my pictures, and for those rare keepers I
would have the raw to manipulate. This is the point and shoot with
an SLR nirvanna. I don't know how to do this yet, but one day this
will be reality.

Bottom line - the DLSR, straight out of the camera, blows away my
"point-and-shoot" 707 (a real camera, but not a DSLR). With some
post processing, I can blow away the straight from the camera
shots. For me, it's not worth it most of the time, but
occasionally it is, and when it is I can do it. The Rebel is a
great snapshot camera, and a great camera. What you chose to do
with it is up to you.

Dave

 

[bm bradley]

never did any post with my film cameras, just yanked it right out of the camera and hung it on the wall. no problem

 

[Dave37]

Good to know there are a few of us out there.

Dave

 

[DannyV]

So what do I want? I want to use raw, download the pictures into a
folder, and press ONE button to create a set of JPEGs of those raw
photos. These would be my pictures, and for those rare keepers I
would have the raw to manipulate. This is the point and shoot with
an SLR nirvanna. I don't know how to do this yet, but one day this
will be reality.

Download the images to a folder, startup EVU select all the images in the folder, then go to the menu and convert to jpg. It will dutifully convert all of your selected images to jpg based on the settings you had in the camera at the time the shot was taken. Also, don't be fooled into thinking that the EVU is short on image quality, it is as good or better than C1 or PS when it comes to image quality.

Dave

--
Daniel
http://www.pbase.com/dvogel11
300D tips http://www.bahneman.com/liem/photos/tricks/digital-rebel-tricks.html
300D FAQ at http://www.marius.org/fom-serve/cache/3.html

 

[Petteri Sulonen]

Dave37 wrote:
[snip]

So what do I want? I want to use raw, download the pictures into a
folder, and press ONE button to create a set of JPEGs of those raw
photos. These would be my pictures, and for those rare keepers I
would have the raw to manipulate. This is the point and shoot with
an SLR nirvanna. I don't know how to do this yet, but one day this
will be reality.

I think you might like CaptureOne DSLR. While it's just a few more than one button, doint that is immensely straightforward: open the folder with your RAW images, Select All, and click on the Add to Queue button. It's similarly easy to apply settings like white balance and tone curve to sets of pictures at a time. I find it much easier to do the basic post-processing in C1 than in PS from JPG.

Petteri
--



[ http://www.prime-junta.tk ]

 

[wrider]

never did any post with my film cameras, just yanked it right out
of the camera and hung it on the wall. no problem

This guy has the right idea. Gah1, I don't think you are really listening to what is being said. The option is always yours, what you want to do. The issue isn't going to be settled on this forum or any other. Its rteally not much of an issue anyway. Canon produced the 300D for people who want step up from the P&S thing but still not have to do much except shoot. This was the same marketing that they used on the non digital Rebel. Capability at a low price. This is what sold them millions of cameras. The only reason we are having this discussion on this forum is because Canon left enough really great things in the Dreb (like image quality) to attract a lot of people like myself who found a bargain high end imaging machine.

This discussion doesn't happen on a professional forum or other higher end forum because those people are seriopus photogs all and they undoubtably post process- just like Ansel Adams did. They don't sit around worrying about it. Its just not an issue with a pro.

Use the DReb as it was intended by Canon, those crafty devils, and you will have a great time because you can use it any way you want.
Have fun
--
Wendell

 

[David Barker91965]

Hi Wendell,

You're thinking of one kind of pro-photographer when you say this, but there are plenty of pros out there who want to get sharp, well-focused and properly exposed photos with credible white balance, predictably and reliably, frame after frame after frame, and don't want to spend time in front of a computer to achieve it.

Sometimes each image cannot be pored over for minutes at a time, and lavished with care and attention c/o Photoshop. You may have read the Sports Illustrated workflow description that's been circulating on the 'net for a little while? That's a perfect example of what I'm talking about.

[snip] ... The only
reason we are having this discussion on this forum is because Canon
left enough really great things in the Dreb (like image quality) to
attract a lot of people like myself who found a bargain high end
imaging machine.
This discussion doesn't happen on a professional forum or other
higher end forum because those people are serious photogs all and
they undoubtably post process- just like Ansel Adams did. They
don't sit around worrying about it. Its just not an issue with a
pro....

Wendell

--
DB

 

[wrider]

Hi Wendell,

You're thinking of one kind of pro-photographer when you say this,
but there are plenty of pros out there who want to get sharp,
well-focused and properly exposed photos with credible white
balance, predictably and reliably, frame after frame after frame,
and don't want to spend time in front of a computer to achieve it.

Sometimes each image cannot be pored over for minutes at a time,
and lavished with care and attention c/o Photoshop. You may have
read the Sports Illustrated workflow description that's been
circulating on the 'net for a little while? That's a perfect
example of what I'm talking about.

I think we all want to get the best pictures possible right out of the camera. Pros post-process. I don't think the SI thing is a good example because they have other people doing their post processing for them (for printing). None of them are shooting 300Ds either. I still say that the only reason any of this comes up is because the 300D is a better camera than its price range, so we have a lot of people who are inexperienced wondering about things. Nothing wrong with that. Canon did us all a favor making a "dumbed down" version of the 10D and leaving the best qualities (the sensor and the processor) intact. The fact it has a lesser build and not enough features will cause most of us to buy "up" next time. In the meantime I have some nice L glass too.

This thread just seems to be continuing this silly non-issue about whether to post process or not.
--
Wendell

 

[starkist]

I'll admit that right off. I am ignorant, but please don't flame me, I don't think being ignorant is the same as being stupid.

I have a fair amount of amateur level experience with film SLR (Minolta 102/ Canon EOS650). I really enjoyed using them. I am frustated with the lag on the Canon G2 and have been contemplating getting the D300.

I enjoy being able to crop the pictures to size, but so far seem to only make the pictures worse when trying to adjust them in Adobe Business Edition. I opened up Adobe LE, but didn't have the first idea where to start.

Like the poster, I am intimidated with the idea of PP. Maybe I'm making it into a bigger deal than it is, but it has kept me from buying the 300D for many months now. Someone said it could be learned in one evening. I would like to have that person sitting at my shoulder for my first dozen sessions of processing..

Is there another option? I talked to a local 30+ year professional photographer that recently switched to digital. He however decided not to learn PP. He sends his raw images to a "lab" for processing and printing. Is this type of service available for those of us that want to learn to use the camera and postpone learning the PP til later??

 

[SwC]

I really wouldn't get hung up on the post processing bit. The whole point of the 300D is that it is flexible. Very flexible. You can shoot JPEGs and use them straight out of the camera, you can shoot RAW and spend hours post-processing, or you can do anything in between. There are so many options. It's all up to you, the user.

If you don't want to do post processing, then you can simply take your photos as you would with any other (film) SLR or even a point and shoot. If you select JPEG mode, then the camera will do some of its own processing, not dissimilar to what a point and shoot will do. You also have control over the contrast, sharpness, and saturation settings, etc. There are two pre-defined ones and three that you can customise (see the review of the 300D on this web site). I suspect that most people for whom the camera is intended would be happy to take JPEG photos and not post-process. As has already been mentioned the 300D is Canon's entry level camera. Their film version is the 300V. Both are aimed that the sort of people who have always bought entry-level SLRs - the sort of people who might not want to do post-processing. That's a very good thing, in my opinion. The fact that more serious photographers have bought the 300D is also a good thing. They will post-process their shots but just because they do, and because they say it's necessary, it does not mean it is. I suspect that they set themselves higher standards (obviously) than the average entry-level SLR user.

Based on what I have seen and experienced, I am of the opinion that JPEG photos straight out of the 300D are better than those taken with a point and shoot. I have a point and shoot (S40) and the 300D (using the in camera processing) is superior, even without post-processing. I have also compromised on the JPEG/RAW/post-processing issue. I use RAW and embed a full size, fine quality JPEG in it, in camera. I then extract the JPEGs using BreezeBrowser and stick with them for most photos I take. Those which I wish to print out or those which are not so good I will post-process from the RAW version. It works for me and might be an option for those people who do not want to spend hours prost-processing but wish to consider the odd exception.

I'll admit that right off. I am ignorant, but please don't flame
me, I don't think being ignorant is the same as being stupid.

I have a fair amount of amateur level experience with film SLR
(Minolta 102/ Canon EOS650). I really enjoyed using them. I am
frustated with the lag on the Canon G2 and have been contemplating
getting the D300.
I enjoy being able to crop the pictures to size, but so far seem to
only make the pictures worse when trying to adjust them in Adobe
Business Edition. I opened up Adobe LE, but didn't have the first
idea where to start.

Like the poster, I am intimidated with the idea of PP. Maybe I'm
making it into a bigger deal than it is, but it has kept me from
buying the 300D for many months now. Someone said it could be
learned in one evening. I would like to have that person sitting
at my shoulder for my first dozen sessions of processing..

Is there another option? I talked to a local 30+ year professional
photographer that recently switched to digital. He however decided
not to learn PP. He sends his raw images to a "lab" for processing
and printing. Is this type of service available for those of us
that want to learn to use the camera and postpone learning the PP
til later??

 

[gah1]

gah1 writes:

Hi all I am the original poster of this thread.

Its funny isnt it that this question splits into 3 types of user. Those that are absolutely convinced that PPS is required and you are a moron not to even want to PPS, those who think that its an individual choice - maybe you need to and maybe you dont, and then those that say put it on jpeg and press the button!

I agree with SWC, it is after all an entry level slr. many people buying it will not want to PPS and the news that so many people dont and that they are happy with the results is great. Its exactly what I wanted to hear in the first place.

Great news, thanks everyone
gah1

If you don't want to do post processing, then you can simply take
your photos as you would with any other (film) SLR or even a point
and shoot. If you select JPEG mode, then the camera will do some
of its own processing, not dissimilar to what a point and shoot
will do. You also have control over the contrast, sharpness, and
saturation settings, etc. There are two pre-defined ones and three
that you can customise (see the review of the 300D on this web
site). I suspect that most people for whom the camera is intended
would be happy to take JPEG photos and not post-process. As has
already been mentioned the 300D is Canon's entry level camera.
Their film version is the 300V. Both are aimed that the sort of
people who have always bought entry-level SLRs - the sort of people
who might not want to do post-processing. That's a very good
thing, in my opinion. The fact that more serious photographers
have bought the 300D is also a good thing. They will post-process
their shots but just because they do, and because they say it's
necessary, it does not mean it is. I suspect that they set
themselves higher standards (obviously) than the average
entry-level SLR user.

Based on what I have seen and experienced, I am of the opinion that
JPEG photos straight out of the 300D are better than those taken
with a point and shoot. I have a point and shoot (S40) and the
300D (using the in camera processing) is superior, even without
post-processing. I have also compromised on the
JPEG/RAW/post-processing issue. I use RAW and embed a full size,
fine quality JPEG in it, in camera. I then extract the JPEGs using
BreezeBrowser and stick with them for most photos I take. Those
which I wish to print out or those which are not so good I will
post-process from the RAW version. It works for me and might be an
option for those people who do not want to spend hours
prost-processing but wish to consider the odd exception.

I'll admit that right off. I am ignorant, but please don't flame
me, I don't think being ignorant is the same as being stupid.

I have a fair amount of amateur level experience with film SLR
(Minolta 102/ Canon EOS650). I really enjoyed using them. I am
frustated with the lag on the Canon G2 and have been contemplating
getting the D300.
I enjoy being able to crop the pictures to size, but so far seem to
only make the pictures worse when trying to adjust them in Adobe
Business Edition. I opened up Adobe LE, but didn't have the first
idea where to start.

Like the poster, I am intimidated with the idea of PP. Maybe I'm
making it into a bigger deal than it is, but it has kept me from
buying the 300D for many months now. Someone said it could be
learned in one evening. I would like to have that person sitting
at my shoulder for my first dozen sessions of processing..

Is there another option? I talked to a local 30+ year professional
photographer that recently switched to digital. He however decided
not to learn PP. He sends his raw images to a "lab" for processing
and printing. Is this type of service available for those of us
that want to learn to use the camera and postpone learning the PP
til later??

 

[Philippe Cheng]

Post processing takes some time but it's quicker (and fun) when you get a hang of it. It's hard not to especially when it results in a MUCH better picture. I have an entire web gallery (link below) where you can compare the final image to the original and it's always a huge difference!

http://www.alternex.net/imagery/imageview.aspx?album=11&image=387&compare=1

--
http://www.alternex.net

 

[AndyWright]

I second the comment by Petteri.

My workflow is to open my RAW files in C1, trash the obvious faux pas, flag the pics I really like which I then export to jpegs after a quick adjustment of crop, exposure, color balance. I even add some sharpening. It's relatively easy to apply adjustments to a group of photos for any of these. All this takes me about ten minutes for 256-512MB of shots.

Note: To preserve disk storage space I go back within windows and look at that folder (view setting to details) and click on File Type to sort out the trashed files and delete those RAW files. Those were my mistakes which I don't care to store. This step takes about one minute, but saves about 10-20% of storage, depending upon how many bad shots there are

Result is a nice bunch of readily usable jpegs with backup RAW files available on C1 which preserves all my settings that I used to create jpegs. If I am serious about printing any pic I can use same or adjust those settings and create a 16 bit tiff very easily. I use PSCS to process prints and find the results are worth the effort.

Andy

So what do I want? I want to use raw, download the pictures into a
folder, and press ONE button to create a set of JPEGs of those raw
photos. These would be my pictures, and for those rare keepers I
would have the raw to manipulate. This is the point and shoot with
an SLR nirvanna. I don't know how to do this yet, but one day this
will be reality.

I think you might like CaptureOne DSLR. While it's just a few more
than one button, doint that is immensely straightforward: open the
folder with your RAW images, Select All, and click on the Add to
Queue button. It's similarly easy to apply settings like white
balance and tone curve to sets of pictures at a time. I find it
much easier to do the basic post-processing in C1 than in PS from
JPG.

Petteri
--



[ http://www.prime-junta.tk ]