S602 - new firmware?

[PrzemKo]

Full report will follow in a few hours but in a nutshell ... WE'RE
DOOMED. News at 11.

If this turns out to be truth, at least you can tell you've tried. Shame about that Dremel thing. Hope it won't affect camera body too much. What they did? used CPU without that JTAG port?

 

[jkirk@oz]

What a sad ending to so much hope. This camera was never made for being repaired. I been in / run service and R+D departments for dozens of companies in 30+ years, including Sony and Philips, and this is one of the worst put together "technically" I've seen. I've been inside literally 10's of thousands of ALL types of equipment. I bet they just hoped it'd make it to EOL. As far as taking 8 hours to fiinally get it apart - The final culprit was the POP-UP Flash button !! You first have to pop-out the Flash recess plate (3 tabs, 2 internal) then using to 5-10 thou probes, push in 2 retaining clips that hold the button (from inside). It then falls out with a spring. I've simply modified mine so I don't need any fancy tools ever again

This plastic button is in a KEY removal point (it LOCKS both halves together). It is a DELIBERATE act to stop / slow ppl down, because all they had to do was make 1 half a U shape and the difficulty wouldn't be there. Considering all the rest is held by a dozen screws. Anyway, even I admit it was a miracle getting it back together and worked first go.

I never found the MPU. There were some VLSI chips UNDER the SM and CF holders, soldered by 100 mico pins. One I identified as our SRAM Buffer. Those guys will NEVER be serviced. Yeah I know it's all throw away these days BUT geez, NOT when you just made it . There was also a VLSI sandwitched under the CCD assembly BUT it seems too far from the Buffer. Either way, I scoured all PCB's and found NO TRACE of any sort of JTAG / Development pads. I can only assume they have a "special" PCB set for development, something I've done many times too. Even more disheartening was the fact that there was NO WAY to solder anything to the "Firing switches", TOTALLY SEALED so even my "wired" remote control plan was a failure. At least servicing the zoom wheel and LCD is easy.

The unique shape has obviously created its own nightmare in design. BUT then, as long as you have warranty, you wouldn't care. My advice is IF you want to keep it for a few years or couldn't afford to pay high $$'s after warranty, then get EXTENDED WARRANTY. To be fair, I wouldn't doubt that MANY other manufacturers are all heading this way. I've pulled apart / attempted service on a few DC's in the last few years (out of warranty) and every time the parts (IF they were available) were more than the camera. I intend to get an extended contract for our 3. Should I sell (or give away) mine after PMA, I can rest easy that whoever gets it won't have to worry for 2 yrs. The "durability" of mechanical parts was "just adequate". I started to loose faith in Fuji until I used a G2 (first time) to take the pics. Even after a few hours of fiddling, it was apparent how much better the Fuji is, there is NO COMPARISON. NOT EVEN CLOSE in my opinion. Siiigh.
CONCLUSION:

Without a JTAG (Development) Port, code changes become a nightmare. Even spending US$16-22,000 on pSOS is a waste of time. It's a lost dream. Sorry guys.

I will post a complete "technical summary" in the next week or two , on my web site if anyone's interested. Some pics are posted already.
http://www.digsys.com.au/S602Z/S602Z.html
JKirk

PrzemKo wrote:
If this turns out to be truth, at least you can tell you've tried.
Shame about that Dremel thing. Hope it won't affect camera body too
much. What they did? used CPU without that JTAG port?

 

[Frog133110]

That probably explains why we never heard/saw any intervention from Fuji on this. They already knew the outcome.
Thanks for trying.

PrzemKo wrote:
If this turns out to be truth, at least you can tell you've tried.
Shame about that Dremel thing. Hope it won't affect camera body too
much. What they did? used CPU without that JTAG port?

 

[jkirk@oz]

The part that pi* es me off is, now that we are at EOL, I've heard form a few ppl that dealers are getting "upgrade" capability to fix / change things. No new code though, they probably don't want the stuff returned for minor stuff that can be fixed with Firmware reload. I have a good friend that sells Fuji, I'll ask monday. It's possible a rumour, but it sure makes SENSE with what's been happening.
JKirk

Frog wrote:
That probably explains why we never heard/saw any intervention from
Fuji on this. They already knew the outcome.
Thanks for trying.

 

[MrMagoo]

The part that pi* es me off is, now that we are at EOL, I've heard
form a few ppl that dealers are getting "upgrade" capability to fix
/ change things. No new code though, they probably don't want the
stuff returned for minor stuff that can be fixed with Firmware
reload. I have a good friend that sells Fuji, I'll ask monday. It's
possible a rumour, but it sure makes SENSE with what's been
happening.
JKirk

That seems to make the most sense from the manufactures viewpoint.

Why put a development port in it. I a simple firmware reload will solve it then fine, else scrap the camera. If fuji wants to do any debugging we are they have versions with a jTag port included.

I am glad you got your camera back together and working again. It would have been a bummer if after all your effort the 602 would work badly.

Did you have a chance to take a clear shot of the the 2 stage low profile switch. I imagine it is just 2 of the dome shaped snap switches with a larger diameter dome over top of a smaller one.

The reason I am asking is that I am thinking of getting one of the small model airplane servos and have the leaver-arm push down the button.
This should be more compact then a solenoid is.
MrMagoo

 

[jkirk@oz]

MrMagoo wrote:
That seems to make the most sense from the manufactures viewpoint.
Why put a development port in it. I a simple firmware reload will
solve it then fine, else scrap the camera. If fuji wants to do any
debugging we are they have versions with a jTag port included.
I am glad you got your camera back together and working again. It
would have been a bummer if after all your effort the 602 would
work badly.

I was so mad with Fuji I didn't care It would've been a good excuse to get a new camera after PMA. I have to open it again anyway, I forgot to calibrate the IR sensor, they have a spring adjusted by a screw to set it. Easy job now.

Did you have a chance to take a clear shot of the the 2 stage low
profile switch. I imagine it is just 2 of the dome shaped snap
switches with a larger diameter dome over top of a smaller one.

Yes, It was ONE reason I opened it up. See pic #15 on my HP. Switch assembly is top left. It is 100% sealed with welded ? steel back plate. A steel mounting plate hides the ribbon all the way to the bottom. I did try to pry it open a little and saw standard spring contacts. It is NOT serviceable.

The reason I am asking is that I am thinking of getting one of the
small model airplane servos and have the leaver-arm push down the
button.
This should be more compact then a solenoid is.

That'll be fine, that part is pretty well made. Just feels flimsy.

MrMagoo

 

[Unnamed33]

JKirk,

Damn shame. Thanks for trying though, your efforts are appreciated !!

Cheers
mips

PrzemKo wrote:
If this turns out to be truth, at least you can tell you've tried.
Shame about that Dremel thing. Hope it won't affect camera body too
much. What they did? used CPU without that JTAG port?

 

[muggerd]

Damn shame. Thanks for trying though, your efforts are appreciated !!

Cheers
mips

PrzemKo wrote:
If this turns out to be truth, at least you can tell you've tried.
Shame about that Dremel thing. Hope it won't affect camera body too
much. What they did? used CPU without that JTAG port?

THANK YOU FOR TRYING!!! now we know. AGAIN THANKS!!!

 

[SuperScott]

Oh well, it was quite a noble effort you gave and we that were rooting for you sincerely appreciate it. I have to admit that I was very excited about the prospect, but at least we now have a step-by-step guide for if/when we need to delve inside for attempted maintenance/repair.

Thanks again,
Scott

--
Capture the beauty of the world one frame at a time.

 

[jkirk@oz]

Thanks folks,

It DID bring out 2 issues though, one "I" even didn't think about. What are "WRITTEN" policies of these companies regarding "serviceability" AFTER EOL !!! In instances like cars, they "must" provide spares for 7 years after EOL and you can still get spares from wreckers years later (even 2nd source). Even if DC makers are required to "repair" them for say 3 yrs later, it'd sure be easy to quote $1 million each time to "pass you off". Don't laugh, I've seen it happen (involved ). If your dumb enough to accept, then there's a frantic search to buy or find he same model and all's well. I'd love to write a book on some of the "scams" service companies pull Back to the issues -

I will email Phil to ask him to get Manufacturers POLICY on EOL serviceability. I bet that will make some of them squirm Dammit, I would like to know when I can stop calling my DC "my prized camera" before I have to change to "ueseless junk"

Secondly, IF anyone finds that they CAN'T get service, for whatever reason, at least we have our own documented (start of) service Group. Heck, even start our own S602 "organ" bank HAHAHAHA oops sorry

I now beleive Phil should INCLUDE manufacturers EOL policies WHEN he does a review. Anyone else feel strongly on this issue?
JKirk

SuperScott wrote:
Oh well, it was quite a noble effort you gave and we that were
rooting for you sincerely appreciate it. I have to admit that I
was very excited about the prospect, but at least we now have a
step-by-step guide for if/when we need to delve inside for
attempted maintenance/repair.
Thanks again,
Scott

 

[Rikki]

Thanks folks,
It DID bring out 2 issues though, one "I" even didn't think about.
What are "WRITTEN" policies of these companies regarding

Im with everyone else on this one, many thanks for a valiant attempt to bring just a little more enjoyment to 602 users.

I take it even the NOPing of the filename reset is not possible now?

I had a look at the PDF file that accompanied the BIN file. Its dated 2/3/2001 so looks to be well out of date, I presume this because it mentions the directory imfidx10.

I owned an MX700 back in 1998/99 and it stored its images in this imfidx10 folder. I noticed it changed to DCIM with the Finepix 1300 and has stayed the same since.

Could it be that you need to place this flash file in the DCIM folder that ur usual photographs appear in?

Just a thought.

Rikki

 

[jkirk@oz]

Rikki wrote:
Im with everyone else on this one, many thanks for a valiant
attempt to bring just a little more enjoyment to 602 users.

I take it even the NOPing of the filename reset is not possible now?

That stuff I will crack, its easy. A lot longer but no big deal. I can still do 3 pass diassembly. Just got to be careful uploading, thats all. BUT if it turns out true that dealers CAN now do uploads, well I won't care if I "stuff" the Flash The boot-loader will ALWAYS be in protected memory, no matter what. Standard procedure.

I had a look at the PDF file that accompanied the BIN file. Its
dated 2/3/2001 so looks to be well out of date, I presume this
because it mentions the directory imfidx10.

I owned an MX700 back in 1998/99 and it stored its images in this
imfidx10 folder. I noticed it changed to DCIM with the Finepix 1300
and has stayed the same since.

Could it be that you need to place this flash file in the DCIM
folder that ur usual photographs appear in?

Very good theory, once I verify my dealer can upload, I'll try it. It's not totally over

Just a thought.
Rikki

 

[sg10]

Just to document what I've tried...

All under plug-in power, where E: is the camera's removable drive, I tried all of these using both SM and Microdrive at startup, with only one memory card present at a time:

E:\DCIM\100_FUJI\Imfidx10\mv320rsc.s3
E:\DCIM\100_FUJI\mv320rsc.s3
E:\DCIM\Imfidx10\mv320rsc.s3
E:\DCIM\mv320rsc.s3
E:\Imfidx10\mv320rsc.s3
E:\ZJ00547-101\Imfidx10\mv320rsc.s3
E:\mv320rsc.s3

None do anything.

 

[jkirk@oz]

What combination of buttons did you "hold down" during power up? Just hang on a day or two, there's a possibility dealers now have the capability to do it. I hope to find out tomorrow.
JKirk

sg10 wrote:
Just to document what I've tried...
All under plug-in power, where E: is the camera's removable drive,
I tried all of these using both SM and Microdrive at startup, with
only one memory card present at a time:

E:\DCIM\100_FUJI\Imfidx10\mv320rsc.s3

E:\DCIM\100_FUJI\mv320rsc.s3
E:\DCIM\Imfidx10\mv320rsc.s3
E:\DCIM\mv320rsc.s3
E:\Imfidx10\mv320rsc.s3

E:\ZJ00547-101\Imfidx10\mv320rsc.s3

E:\mv320rsc.s3
None do anything.

 

[jkirk@oz]

A final entry to end this thread and a lasting memory for those who followed it -
http://www.digsys.com.au/S602Z/S602Z.html

BUT, once I have my M32R development kit (for another project), I do plan to have another attempt using an alternate approach. Reverse assemble the S3 file, Build a memory map, Run a code "simulator". It's a LOT harder, and a LOT less useful (forget major changes) BUT a win is a win. Long live the Revolution
JKirk

 

[Lothman]

Hi jkirk,
thanks again for sharing all your efforts I hope you will succeed one day.

After having disassemled your 602 what could you reccomend if cleaning of the ccd is nescesarry?

Best Regards
Lothman

P.S.: In TV the jkirk's put these jobs to their Spocks and Scottys heheheh.

A final entry to end this thread and a lasting memory for those who
followed it -
http://www.digsys.com.au/S602Z/S602Z.html
BUT, once I have my M32R development kit (for another project), I
do plan to have another attempt using an alternate approach.
Reverse assemble the S3 file, Build a memory map, Run a code
"simulator". It's a LOT harder, and a LOT less useful (forget major
changes) BUT a win is a win. Long live the Revolution
JKirk

 

[Madness]

Avanti popoli, bandiera rossa! Viva la Revolucion! (sorry, but there was this old song on the radio not long ago and I remembered it

nice try, shame about the end of this thread (although I didn't quite understand what exactly you were trying to do by dissasembling

--
'Mind over matter....if you don't mind the pain then it don't matter...'
------------------------------------------------------------
http://members.lycos.co.uk/insanityphotos/

 

[jkirk@oz]

Hi mate,

As you can see in A5, B2 and B3 - the CCD is well protected and sealed. Its an easy job to pull that PCB off to gain access.

Would I do it again, SURE. Now that I know the "secrets", plus the fact that I've dis-assembled a few thousand items in my life, it's no big deal to me. My SAD disappointment was purely from an "engineer's view" and after using the G2 to take the shots, I love the picture quality / ease of use even more.

I WOULD NOT recommend dis-assembly by anyone who has never done this kind of stuff before !!! This is NOT for beginners
JKirk

PS: After I got sacked from Star Trek I had a bust up with the crew, kinda got caught foolin' with their wives what can ya do?

Lothman wrote:
Hi jkirk,
thanks again for sharing all your efforts I hope you will succeed
one day.
After having disassemled your 602 what could you reccomend if
cleaning of the ccd is nescesarry?
Best Regards
Lothman

P.S.: In TV the jkirk's put these jobs to their Spocks and Scottys
heheheh.

 

[jkirk@oz]

Madness wrote:
Avanti popoli, bandiera rossa! Viva la Revolucion! (sorry, but
there was this old song on the radio not long ago and I remembered
it

Yep, age does that

nice try, shame about the end of this thread (although I didn't
quite understand what exactly you were trying to do by
dissasembling

1/ Install a wired (w/RF capability) Remote Control connector. PCB was ready to go.

2/ Install a "HOT" JTAG connector to be able to do "URGENT" mods to the Firmware. There's no way Fuji will ever do any changes.

Both these connectors were to be accessible from the outside (inside a door etc).

3/ Maybe boost the IR system by replacing the IR LEDS w/ much higher spec. This alone would definitely help in "lower" light.

There was 2 other "LONG shot" ideas that were still feasable ie Replacing the LCD (don't know why they don't just make it a pluggable OPTION) with a blue-tooth transmitter. I would've loved to have a "wearable LCD viewer" and free myself from having to jam the camera in my face. The technology is there fer chrissakes.
JKirk

I'll be buck ...

 

[Lothman]

Hi JKirk,

sorry but I don't understand which pics you mean with A5, B2 and B3, I don't see these numbers on your page.

So if you had to blow off some dust/particles on your ccd what would you recommend?

Thanks in advance
Lothman

Hi mate,
As you can see in A5, B2 and B3 - the CCD is well protected and
sealed. Its an easy job to pull that PCB off to gain access.
Would I do it again, SURE. Now that I know the "secrets", plus the
fact that I've dis-assembled a few thousand items in my life, it's
no big deal to me. My SAD disappointment was purely from an
"engineer's view" and after using the G2 to take the shots, I love
the picture quality / ease of use even more.
I WOULD NOT recommend dis-assembly by anyone who has never done
this kind of stuff before !!! This is NOT for beginners
JKirk
PS: After I got sacked from Star Trek I had a bust up with the
crew, kinda got caught foolin' with their wives what can ya do?