RX100 M6 .... finding my way

[Guy Parsons]

The M6 is still new to me and experimenting, first "serious" outing day+night in Sydney. Letting it run P mode and see ISO 6400 at times.

Jpegs on kitchen 24" Philips TV look darn good, later at night on 43" LG 4K TV they somehow looked drab.

On this Philips 24" monitor attached to a notebook they look good, calibrated and gets maybe 90% of sRGB gamut. On desktop with expensive 10 bit 24" monitor calibrated and easily gets 100% of sRGB then they look better again.

Currently using DxO Photolab2 to crunch all the raw files to jpegs and will try the TVs again. The default DxO conversion does seem to pump up the colours a bit and seems to over-do the reds, but maybe that's just what the TV screens may need, we'll see later.

With the 4K TV I needed to get within about 4 or 5 feet of the screen to see the noise in the ISO 6400 shots, back at normal pop-corn eating distance then there were no noise issues at all, it all looks good.

One thing, I am constantly amazed at how good the lens is. Having so much fun with the M6 that I suspect my M4/3 gear may stay at home much more.

Here's a random shot from the day in the city.... (resized to 1620x1080).....



First pass with default DxO conversion, camera jpeg looks OK but when I compare side by side in FastStone Viewer then the DxO version looks better, the sky is a truer blue and the whites are cleaner and whiter with DxO. Hmmmm, more comparisons needed.

Regards...... Guy

 

[Foto4x4]

Guy, as you know from elsewhere we are sharing a new journey with the M6. My guess about the “drab” look on the TV is mode on the set. Most TVs and especially more recent ones have a plethora of viewing modes like Vivid, Standard, Movie, Photo, Custom, Custom Pro, Game and Sport. Probably more. My Sony can be set by source. So FTA TV, has a fairly standard look even a bit brighter since we are more likely to watch with lights on. Movies however are always in semi-dark so I use a Pro mode what has a warm tint. The Expert tint is too dull for our taste. I noted you mentioned you waited till later to view on the TV (in another thread). I assume you were in lower light. What picture mode are your looking at on the TV? Fortunately, I’ve been able to set a mode on our Sony that looks very like my calibrated iMac 27” 5K monitor. I use that monitor to set my LR colours etc. iPads and iPhones fortunately look pretty close to the iMac so I get consistent colours and contrast across all cameras and devices.

 

[ProDude]

The M6 is still new to me and experimenting, first "serious" outing day+night in Sydney. Letting it run P mode and see ISO 6400 at times.

Jpegs on kitchen 24" Philips TV look darn good, later at night on 43" LG 4K TV they somehow looked drab.

On this Philips 24" monitor attached to a notebook they look good, calibrated and gets maybe 90% of sRGB gamut. On desktop with expensive 10 bit 24" monitor calibrated and easily gets 100% of sRGB then they look better again.

Currently using DxO Photolab2 to crunch all the raw files to jpegs and will try the TVs again. The default DxO conversion does seem to pump up the colours a bit and seems to over-do the reds, but maybe that's just what the TV screens may need, we'll see later.

With the 4K TV I needed to get within about 4 or 5 feet of the screen to see the noise in the ISO 6400 shots, back at normal pop-corn eating distance then there were no noise issues at all, it all looks good.

One thing, I am constantly amazed at how good the lens is. Having so much fun with the M6 that I suspect my M4/3 gear may stay at home much more.

Here's a random shot from the day in the city.... (resized to 1620x1080).....



First pass with default DxO conversion, camera jpeg looks OK but when I compare side by side in FastStone Viewer then the DxO version looks better, the sky is a truer blue and the whites are cleaner and whiter with DxO. Hmmmm, more comparisons needed.

Regards...... Guy

I've worked with just about every piece of software out there for RAW conversion as well as Jpeg reworking. No way I'd bother with anything Adobe any further to start with. At this time what I'm finding is for RAW conversion (demosaicing) as well as the sharpening and Jpeg or RAW noise reduction interestingly enough Photo Ninja is the finest I've yet come across. I also use ACDSee Ultimate 2019 for the finest light control and restoration when needed. DXO is my final go to for the final processing of the image, but DXO does NOT convert a RAW as well as Photo Ninja PERIOD. I highly recommend you give the free trial a go with Photo Ninja.....it will spoil you.

--
Name the gear and I've probably owned it and used it.

 

[Travelshooter]

So many converters, so little time. Try this and see for yourself. jpeg set to standard, dump into Lightroom with clarity +10, presence +10 and contrast +5. Rasie shadows and drop highlights to taste. No sharpening needed, already sharp as a tack.

 

[Joe Lynch]

Is PhotoNinja better for you for raw conversion of just the Sony raw files or for raw files from other cameras also? I have been using DXO for Olympus raw files is why I ask.

Joe

 

[ProDude]

Yes for Olympus as well I just recently processed from OMD 5 and was quite impressed with the results in particular noise reduction and sharpness

 

[Guy Parsons]

Guy, as you know from elsewhere we are sharing a new journey with the M6. My guess about the “drab” look on the TV is mode on the set. Most TVs and especially more recent ones have a plethora of viewing modes like Vivid, Standard, Movie, Photo, Custom, Custom Pro, Game and Sport. Probably more. My Sony can be set by source. So FTA TV, has a fairly standard look even a bit brighter since we are more likely to watch with lights on. Movies however are always in semi-dark so I use a Pro mode what has a warm tint. The Expert tint is too dull for our taste. I noted you mentioned you waited till later to view on the TV (in another thread). I assume you were in lower light. What picture mode are your looking at on the TV? Fortunately, I’ve been able to set a mode on our Sony that looks very like my calibrated iMac 27” 5K monitor. I use that monitor to set my LR colours etc. iPads and iPhones fortunately look pretty close to the iMac so I get consistent colours and contrast across all cameras and devices.

I tried all picture modes and also fiddled saturation and contrast (on the TV) but still the LG set looked sort of "dull" despite the fact it seems OK with free to air TV, web feeds of TV and with DVDs input. Maybe I need to rob the bank and get a big OLED screen.

Tonight I'll compare the DxO set with the camera JPEGs, already tested on the kitchen TV and the DxO set is definitely better than the camera JPEGs.

All this in an effort to see if camera JPEGs are all we need, but so far it's looking like raw+JPG forever.

An interesting thought is maybe the way the TV computer handles the resizes for the screen. Going back some years and playing with a couple of different digital picture frames I found the best results came with using JPEGs that were exactly twice the native pixel dimensions.

Regards...... Guy

 

[DenImage]

Guy,

Beware there's a magenta cast issue with the DXO PhotoLab RX100vi profile:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4348285

Digital Nigel has reported it to them, and they advised to him a fix will be in the next release.

Anyway, here's my RX100vi camera settings for anyone that might want to try them:

Memory Setting 1 (for general daylight)
----------------
Aperture (default) = F2.8
File Format = Raw & JPG
JPEG Quality = Standard
JPEG Image Size = M:10M
Aspect Ratio = 3:2
High ISO NR = Off
Color Space = sRGB
Drive Mode = Cont Shooting (Lo)
Focus Mode = Continuous AF
Focus Area = Flexible Spot M
Swt. V/H AF Area = Off
Center Lock-on AF = Off
Disp.Cont.AF Area = Off
Phase Detect Area = Off
ISO = Auto ISO (Min 125, Max 800)
ISO AUTO Min SS = 1/250
Metering Mode = Multi
Face Prty in Mlti Mtr = Off
White Balance = Auto (A0.5, G1.25)
DRO/AutoHDR = Lv5
Creative Style = Standard -1, -1, -3
Focus Magnif Time = No Limit
Initial Focus Mag = x5.3
MF Assist = On
Peaking Level = Mid
Peaking Color = Yellow
File Format = XAVC S 4K
Record Setting = 25p 100M
Img Size (Dual Rec) = L:17M
AF Drive Speed = Normal
AF Track Sens = Responsive
Wind Noise Reduct = On
Steadyshot = Standard
Shutter Type = Electronic Shut
Release w/o Card = Enable
Steadyshot = On
Zoom Speed = Fast
Zoom Func on Ring = Step
DISP Button = Finder - Histogram, Level
FINDER/MONITOR = Viewfinder(Manual)
Grid Line = Square Grid
Live View Display = Setting Effect On
Auto Review = Off
Custom Key(Shoot)
Control Ring = Exposure Compensation
C Button = Eye AF
Center Button = Focus Area
Left Button = Finder/Monitor Sel
Right Button = AF/MF Ctrl Toggle

Audio Signals = Off
Airplane Mode = Off
Display Rotation = Auto
Monitor Brightness = Manual
Viewfinder Bright = Auto
Tile Menu = Off
Mode Dial Guide = Off
Delete confirm = "Delete" first
Display Quality = High
Pwr Save Start Time = 1 Min
Function for VF close = Not Power Off

Memory 2 - As above plus following changes (for general lowlight)
------------------------------------------
JPEG Quality = Fine
Focus Mode = Automatic AF (AF-A)
ISO = Auto ISO (Min 125, Max 6400)
ISO AUTO Min SS = 1/15
White Balance = Auto: Ambience (A1.5, G0.75)
Priority Set in AWB = Ambience
DRO/AutoHDR = Lv5
Shutter Type = Mechanical Shut

Memory 3 - As above plus following changes (for general artificial lowlight)
------------------------------------------
JPEG Quality = Fine
JPEG Image Size = M:10M
Focus Mode = Automatic AF (AF-A)
ISO = Auto ISO (Min 125, Max 6400)
ISO AUTO Min SS = 1/15
White Balance = Custom 1 (A1, G0)
DRO/AutoHDR = Lv5
Shutter Type = Mechanical Shut

Memory M1 - As above plus following changes
-------------------------------------------
File Format = Raw
Drive Mode = Cont Bracket 0.3EV 3 Image

Den

 

[Guy Parsons]

I'm not seeing any magenta cast. Maybe a shift to blueishness if anything, plus reds a bit excited. Latest DxO version downloaded today so maybe there's been some changes?

As with other cameras I will eventually fine tune the DxO RX100M6 default and make a new default preset that suits me better - then batch process the lot and only come back to the few that don't look right.

In the past with Olympus raw files I have had some very good results with Corel Aftershot Pro 3, its big advantage is the hypersonic speed of its conversions. Next to try that.

Thanks for the list of settings, more for me to think about as not set up any memories so far.

Regards...... Guy

 

[Guy Parsons]

I've worked with just about every piece of software out there for RAW conversion as well as Jpeg reworking. No way I'd bother with anything Adobe any further to start with. At this time what I'm finding is for RAW conversion (demosaicing) as well as the sharpening and Jpeg or RAW noise reduction interestingly enough Photo Ninja is the finest I've yet come across. I also use ACDSee Ultimate 2019 for the finest light control and restoration when needed. DXO is my final go to for the final processing of the image, but DXO does NOT convert a RAW as well as Photo Ninja PERIOD. I highly recommend you give the free trial a go with Photo Ninja.....it will spoil you.

I have read the blog where the guy compared DxO and Ninja, he came to the conclusion that DxO Photolab2 has improved and is really close to Ninja now - for me that makes it not worthwhile to spend yet more money on another raw converter, thanks.

Regards..... Guy

 

[DenImage]

I've worked with just about every piece of software out there for RAW conversion as well as Jpeg reworking. No way I'd bother with anything Adobe any further to start with. At this time what I'm finding is for RAW conversion (demosaicing) as well as the sharpening and Jpeg or RAW noise reduction interestingly enough Photo Ninja is the finest I've yet come across. I also use ACDSee Ultimate 2019 for the finest light control and restoration when needed. DXO is my final go to for the final processing of the image, but DXO does NOT convert a RAW as well as Photo Ninja PERIOD. I highly recommend you give the free trial a go with Photo Ninja.....it will spoil you.

I have read the blog where the guy compared DxO and Ninja, he came to the conclusion that DxO Photolab2 has improved and is really close to Ninja now - for me that makes it not worthwhile to spend yet more money on another raw converter, thanks.

Regards..... Guy

I just read the blog link you posted.

The Photo Ninja landscape image looks over saturated with yellow:


Photo Ninja

and he's really messed up the clouds with excessive highlight recovery in DXO PhotoLab:


DXO PhotoLab

and the noise test image looks blurry and has no structure to the lettering in the sign:


Photo Ninja


DXO PhotoLab

The DXO PhotoLab letters have more detail, and look a little sharper.

Den

 

[Guy Parsons]

Weirdness is invading my little world....

Made sets of RX100 M6 images, so could run through in a slide show and see the camera jpeg followed by the DxO version from the raw file.

On 3 different computers and monitors at home, plus the kitchen TV, the DxO versions clearly look better than the camera jpegs - but take the same sets to the LG 4K TV and I'm danged if I can see any difference between the camera jpeg and the jpeg from DxO.

Maybe skin tones seem a whisker better with DxO but it is very very close. The TV is very obviously doing some optimisation of its own.

It's all too much for my tiny brain so I'm turning everything off and having an early night....

Regards.... Guy

 

[PhotoPoet]

Reading all this processing talk I flashed-back to my days as an educational slide/filmstrip photographer. Shooting art, architecture, how-to's of car engine assembly, and the streets of NYC. I had 10 rolls of 20 exposure slide film, to end up with a presentation that contained about 90 usable photos. Shoot, develop, package it up. I too have an M6, I can't imagine how much easier my Nikon shooting, endless lens changing daily routines would have been with this little miracle. Now we pixel peep and play with curves, my chemical trays, uses when I shot BW, prehistoric. Dodging with fingers dipped in liquid, who could have predicted that touch would lead us here. Happy shooting...

 

[elliottnewcomb]

Off to a good start, glad you bought it I bet, Let's see some more.

 

[Guy Parsons]

Off to a good start, glad you bought it I bet, Let's see some more.

Like many exposed to the system camera community, I was at first a little wary of this little pocket camera with a big zoom and small apertures, that's the stuff of much sneering in those places.

Luckily it works so well I could safely abandon the system camera area forever, well, almost.....

With the quick zoom to "200mm" or thereabouts I get things like this easily that would have taken moments of fiddling with lens changes and missing the occasion, as they moved on a few seconds later......


@ 198mm equivalent

I do not like her makeup eye long red line so will clone that out later and darken the short red line at the edge of her eye.

They were being lit from the left of the shot with a hand-held LED light stick, very impressed with that as they give an even continuous light that is colour temperature adjustable.


@75mm equivalent.

Both shots resized to 1500x1000. From camera jpegs and very minor adjustments using FastStone Viewer after resizing.

As I said, I'm having fun.

Regards...... Guy