REVERSE FACES for "proofing" ???

[PhotoTeach2]

Considering FACTS:

1.) Everyone's face is different from one-side to the other, (often referred to as our "good" or "bad" side) ...

2.) Everyone has only (or at least most-often) seen themselves in a MIRROR, (thus left-right "reversed" image) ...

3.) Because they can only identify how they look (to themselves) in a MIRROR, it could be said that people are looking at a "stranger" when they see a "photo" of themselves ...

4.) It thus follows that many people never 'like' their photos, and thus don't-like their photo taken, (thus some say "I never take a good picture" -- and/or hide when photos are being taken) ...

5.) FACT: most cell-phones automatically (left-right) "reverse" the image for their forward-facing "selfie" cameras ... they are seeing themselves as they think they look -- AND THUS PEOPLE LOVE THEM !!!

This is evident when you see many YouTubes / InstaGrams / Tik-Tok etc, where lettering on their shirts/hats are reversed !!!

However ... do any pro's here ever "reverse" the PROOF (only) images before showing to a client ... for the strict purpose that the client will more likely self-identify with and thus "like" their images (and thus eagerly buy more) -- only telling them the images are reversed -- after they make their purchase choices ???

Now I am NOT suggesting "delivering" finished portraits to a client reversed ... I am only suggesting that for "proofs" -- NOT for the delivered product.

Personally, I did that for 15-years when I had my studio & processing-printing LAB. I used to flip their negatives when I printed their proofs -- and thus NEVER had a client complain: "it doesn't look like me", (which I personally have heard many people say about regular photos of themselves).

Only after they made their purchase decision, I then told them what I had done and that their final photo-delivery would be correct images, (no one complained or questioned my motives).

Note that I learned this by accident when I was shooting POLAROID's in nightclubs (for 12-yrs -- '72-'84) before I opened my studio/lab.

The first time it was NOT "MY" idea, a girl grabbed/forced me into the (ladies) bathroom, jumped onto the counter, leaned into the mirror, and said, "shoot me like this".

Afterwards I often had ladies who refused to allow their photos taken, (saying they always take "terrible" pictures) ... I asked them to accompany me into the ladies restroom, (where they always had large-mirrors), and then I shot their faces in the mirror, and THEY LOVED THEM.

Often I had couples, and thus I would take TWO photos of the lady, one looking into the mirror, and one turned directly towards me. Invariably, the lady liked her image reversed, while her husband/bf loved the "correct" one, (as could be expected) ... MADE BOTH HAPPY and they always BOUGHT BOTH IMAGES !!!

Carrying that a step further, my studio ('84-'99) had a "boudoir" section, with "mirrors" so many of my boudoir portraits were thus indeed shot into (or under) a mirror -- they usually bought the complete package (of 36 or 72+ prints).

Has anyone else had similar experiences, or routinely "reverse" their "PROOF" (only) images before showing to client -- while I did it by flipping the negatives when printing, it can now be done by left-right-flipping in PP ???

IF you have NOT done it ... I suggest you may like to TRY it on a client (for close-up face shot) and see what their reactions are, (again, without telling them what you are doing until later -- so they think it is their natural image) !!!

 

[Victor Engel]

I would suggest doing so only if being entirely transparent about it. A proof is supposed to be a facsimile of the final product. If the final product is reversed relative to the proof, it was not an appropriate proof.
Another option is to display the proof using a mirror. You get the mirrored image that way without reversing the proof.

There are mirrors, by the way (usually two mirrors at right angles, so double-reflection) that present the viewer with the same view others see. I guess they're not used very much, though.

--
Victor Engel

 

[PhotoTeach2]

I would suggest doing so only if being entirely transparent about it.

I always told them, but admittedly only after I got their first (positive) reaction to "their" images, (or at least what they thought was "their" image).

A proof is supposed to be a facsimile of the final product. If the final product is reversed relative to the proof, it was not an appropriate proof.

But a client must be convinced that their (face-shot) image is "them". It is only a minor deception, (and temporary).

Another option is to display the proof using a mirror. You get the mirrored image that way without reversing the proof.

That is actually a great idea, and even more realistic since they are truly then looking into a mirror, (as they naturally would anyway).

But to make it work, I suggest forcing them to FIRST see their proofs in the mirror, so the "mirror" image creates their first reactions.

There are mirrors, by the way (usually two mirrors at right angles, so double-reflection) that present the viewer with the same view others see. I guess they're not used very much, though.

I think you are making my point, since people (naturally) don't "recognize" that person -- (they only know their mirror image).

 

[photolando]

It all sounds too complicated. My clients see the proofs immediately after the sitting. Been doing that for years. No on-line proofing and actual printed proofs never live the studio or whatever location I am shooting at. In person selling only. IMHO it's the only way to close more sales and to have higher ones.

 

[jlafferty]

Solution looking for a problem.

 

[Victor Engel]

It all sounds too complicated. My clients see the proofs immediately after the sitting. Been doing that for years. No on-line proofing and actual printed proofs never live the studio or whatever location I am shooting at. In person selling only. IMHO it's the only way to close more sales and to have higher ones.

That was also my experience when I shot musical dress rehearsals and performances. Posting a link to be viewed later had tepid results. Showing a slide show and taking orders after the show while the performers were cleaning up and changing was very productive. Doing it this way, though, meant less careful editing in order to get everything done in time.

 

[PhotoTeach2]

Solution looking for a problem.

But I suggest it is a problem when a client looks at an image of someone they have never seen before, (since they see themselves in mirrors many times every day).

Have you ever seen anyone negatively comment on themselves when they take "selfies" with their phones -- which are automatically reversed for that very reason ??? ... (contrary to many-many people who comment that they take "terrible" regular photos and "never like them")

 

[PhotoTeach2]

It all sounds too complicated. My clients see the proofs immediately after the sitting. Been doing that for years. No on-line proofing and actual printed proofs never live the studio or whatever location I am shooting at. In person selling only. IMHO it's the only way to close more sales and to have higher ones.

I fully agree with each point ... especially the "in person" since the intent is for the client to (more) identify with "her/his" images, and thus "love" them rather than forcing themselves to (only) "like" them.

If another person saw the images, they would (probably) NOT like them, (for the same reason the client themself would more identify with reversed/mirror images). So this was only for "in person" selling.

As for too-complicated ... how long would it take to create a duplicate (R) file (2-seconds), and then do a batch L/R-reverse (another 5-seconds) ... then SHOW THAT "R" FILE to the client. After selection, then obviously print/deliver from the original file.

I found it was worth it to get the much-more "excited" reactions I got from my clients when they were seeing themselves as they actually KNEW (or thought they knew) how they looked.

The bottom line is they (more eagerly) bought more images as they more inherently "loved" their (more recognized) images.

The secret again is to NOT TELL THEM the images are reversed until after they make their selections, (otherwise the clients are just confused) -- but I suggest clients are inherently "confused" anyway when they see (correct) images of themselves because they are truly looking at a stranger they have really never seen before.

 

[Michael Fryd]

Solution looking for a problem.

But I suggest it is a problem when a client looks at an image of someone they have never seen before, (since they see themselves in mirrors many times every day).

Have you ever seen anyone negatively comment on themselves when they take "selfies" with their phones -- which are automatically reversed for that very reason ??? ... (contrary to many-many people who comment that they take "terrible" regular photos and "never like them")

I have lots of clients that don't like the way they look when they see themselves in a mirror. They are used to thinking themselves as not being pretty. After all, the image in the mirror doesn't match the polished and retouched images they see on TV, in magazines, or in online celebrity photos.

Perhaps they like the photos that I take because they look different from the mirror image they are used to seeing? Perhaps the un-mirrored image doesn't remind themselves of the unkempt person they see in the morning when they are brushing their teeth?

.

I can see that if someone has a high opinion of themselves, and is obsessed with the image they are constantly looking at in the mirror, they might prefer a mirrored photograph.

I guess it all depends on the client you are selling to.

 

[PhotoTeach2]

Solution looking for a problem.

But I suggest it is a problem when a client looks at an image of someone they have never seen before, (since they see themselves in mirrors many times every day).

Have you ever seen anyone negatively comment on themselves when they take "selfies" with their phones -- which are automatically reversed for that very reason ??? ... (contrary to many-many people who comment that they take "terrible" regular photos and "never like them")

I have lots of clients that don't like the way they look when they see themselves in a mirror. They are used to thinking themselves as not being pretty.

But seeing a typical (normal) photo of themselves does not change or improve that ... it can only be worse.

After all, the image in the mirror doesn't match the polished and retouched images they see on TV, in magazines, or in online celebrity photos.

Perhaps they like the photos that I take because they look different from the mirror image they are used to seeing? Perhaps the un-mirrored image doesn't remind themselves of the unkempt person they see in the morning when they are brushing their teeth?

I suggest the un-mirrrored is 'that' different (enough to make them beautiful), just enough that it does looks (slightly) 'different'.

But that does remind me of the "Glamor-Shot" studios that were in all the malls back in the '90's.

They had professional hair-dressers who restyled hair into a 'different' style, make-up artists for a 'Hollywood' look, and extremely soft-focus lenses -- so it truly didn't look like them. Some ladies liked the look, but some didn't, (because it still was not the "mirror" look they "knew").

I can see that if someone has a high opinion of themselves, and is obsessed with the image they are constantly looking at in the mirror, they might prefer a mirrored photograph.

I guess it all depends on the client you are selling to.

That is everyone, (especially girls/ladies) !!!

Remember that I did not actually think of it myself, and found it out by accident ... but it is still a FACT that selfies are (usually) auto-reversed by our cell-phones.

Note that I just realized that my FZ-1000 also does it when I rotate the LCD to a front (selfie) position.

So the phone and camera manufacturers know it also ...

Does it hurt to try it on a few clients ??? ... (but remember WITHOUT THEM KNOWING IT) !!!

 

[Victor Engel]

The phone and camera makers may have a different reason for reversing the image for selfies: movement. In fact, I would suggest this is a much more important reason. When reversed, it's easy to track the motion of the image on the screen, since it exactly mirrors the subject movement. When not reversed, the movement is exactly opposite. So you have to think backward in order to recompose.

 

[Michael Fryd]

Solution looking for a problem.

But I suggest it is a problem when a client looks at an image of someone they have never seen before, (since they see themselves in mirrors many times every day).

Have you ever seen anyone negatively comment on themselves when they take "selfies" with their phones -- which are automatically reversed for that very reason ??? ... (contrary to many-many people who comment that they take "terrible" regular photos and "never like them")

I have lots of clients that don't like the way they look when they see themselves in a mirror. They are used to thinking themselves as not being pretty.

But seeing a typical (normal) photo of themselves does not change or improve that ... it can only be worse.

I am interested in why you think that seeing a normal (not mirrored) image of themselves can only be worse? You have already asserted that a normal image does not look like the self image people see in mirrors. If someone doesn't like the mirrored image they are used to, why would a different image be worse? Might not they see it as "better" as it doesn't look like them?

After all, the image in the mirror doesn't match the polished and retouched images they see on TV, in magazines, or in online celebrity photos.

Perhaps they like the photos that I take because they look different from the mirror image they are used to seeing? Perhaps the un-mirrored image doesn't remind themselves of the unkempt person they see in the morning when they are brushing their teeth?

I suggest the un-mirrrored is 'that' different (enough to make them beautiful), just enough that it does looks (slightly) 'different'.

But that does remind me of the "Glamor-Shot" studios that were in all the malls back in the '90's.

They had professional hair-dressers who restyled hair into a 'different' style, make-up artists for a 'Hollywood' look, and extremely soft-focus lenses -- so it truly didn't look like them. Some ladies liked the look, but some didn't, (because it still was not the "mirror" look they "knew").

A mirrored image is how they are used to seeing their own face. If they think that presentation is a perfect face, then they may very well prefer a mirrored image.

However, many people don't like their on face. They don't like that the fae they see when brushing their teeth, doesn't match the glamorous faces they hold up as a standard. By showing them something different (an un-mirrored version) they are less likely to see it as the unkempt morning image, and more likely to see it as something different. If you are unhappy with the mirrored image, different may be better.

I can see that if someone has a high opinion of themselves, and is obsessed with the image they are constantly looking at in the mirror, they might prefer a mirrored photograph.

I guess it all depends on the client you are selling to.

That is everyone, (especially girls/ladies) !!!

Remember that I did not actually think of it myself, and found it out by accident ... but it is still a FACT that selfies are (usually) auto-reversed by our cell-phones.

Yes. selfies are reversed in cell phones as it makes it easier for people to pose. People are used to how the image in a mirror reacts when they move. If the selfie was not reversed, then people would end up moving the wrong way when they tried to adjust their position in the frame.

Consider the following. Suppose the person was wearing a perfectly symmetrical mask. The image of the mask would look the same, whether or not it was mirrored. Yet it would still be important to mirror the selfie image. Otherwise, if the person was off center to the right, they would move the wrong way to center themselves in the frame.

It makes much more sense for the selfie camera to act like a mirror for framing and positioning reasons.

Note that I just realized that my FZ-1000 also does it when I rotate the LCD to a front (selfie) position.

So the phone and camera manufacturers know it also ...

As I just mentioned, there are other, very valid reasons for a selfie camera to present a mirrored image. You have no evidence that the camera manufacturer was concerned with how the face looks over ease of framing/positioning.

Does it hurt to try it on a few clients ??? ... (but remember WITHOUT THEM KNOWING IT) !!!

Perhaps a better test is to present them with both the mirrored and normal versions of each image, and see which sells better. Of course, don't tell them which is which.

But if your clients are unhappy with the results when you show them normal images, is it possible that the mirror vs. normal isn't the issue? My experience is that if I have captured a good expression, with good lighting and good composition, the client is very happy, even without having to mirror the image.

 

[ampimagedotcom]

... do any pro's here ever "reverse" the PROOF (only) images before showing to a client ...

My clients would usually look at the images on the laptop screen during the shoot...


(Behind the scenes during the shoot at the Dylan Hotel in Dublin)

.. because I use Capture One Pro.

So no, I have never reverse an image for proofing - but something I or the client have reverse an image before using it...



.. for a number of reasons.

--
Creating images to tell a story... just for you!
Cheers,
Ashley.

 

[PhotoTeach2]

The phone and camera makers may have a different reason for reversing the image for selfies: movement. In fact, I would suggest this is a much more important reason. When reversed, it's easy to track the motion of the image on the screen, since it exactly mirrors the subject movement. When not reversed, the movement is exactly opposite. So you have to think backward in order to recompose.

That is obviously true ...

But does not explain why people "like" their selfies so much better than regular photos.

Don't take my word for it -- I already posted that I am not alone in this view .... just GOOGLE: "why do people like their mirror image".

It is not a debatable issue ...

 

[PhotoTeach2]

Solution looking for a problem.

But I suggest it is a problem when a client looks at an image of someone they have never seen before, (since they see themselves in mirrors many times every day).

Have you ever seen anyone negatively comment on themselves when they take "selfies" with their phones -- which are automatically reversed for that very reason ??? ... (contrary to many-many people who comment that they take "terrible" regular photos and "never like them")

I have lots of clients that don't like the way they look when they see themselves in a mirror. They are used to thinking themselves as not being pretty.

But seeing a typical (normal) photo of themselves does not change or improve that ... it can only be worse.

I am interested in why you think that seeing a normal (not mirrored) image of themselves can only be worse? You have already asserted that a normal image does not look like the self image people see in mirrors. If someone doesn't like the mirrored image they are used to, why would a different image be worse? Might not they see it as "better" as it doesn't look like them?

After all, the image in the mirror doesn't match the polished and retouched images they see on TV, in magazines, or in online celebrity photos.

Perhaps they like the photos that I take because they look different from the mirror image they are used to seeing? Perhaps the un-mirrored image doesn't remind themselves of the unkempt person they see in the morning when they are brushing their teeth?

I suggest the un-mirrrored is 'that' different (enough to make them beautiful), just enough that it does looks (slightly) 'different'.

But that does remind me of the "Glamor-Shot" studios that were in all the malls back in the '90's.

They had professional hair-dressers who restyled hair into a 'different' style, make-up artists for a 'Hollywood' look, and extremely soft-focus lenses -- so it truly didn't look like them. Some ladies liked the look, but some didn't, (because it still was not the "mirror" look they "knew").

A mirrored image is how they are used to seeing their own face. If they think that presentation is a perfect face, then they may very well prefer a mirrored image.

However, many people don't like their on face. They don't like that the fae they see when brushing their teeth, doesn't match the glamorous faces they hold up as a standard. By showing them something different (an un-mirrored version) they are less likely to see it as the unkempt morning image, and more likely to see it as something different. If you are unhappy with the mirrored image, different may be better.

I can see that if someone has a high opinion of themselves, and is obsessed with the image they are constantly looking at in the mirror, they might prefer a mirrored photograph.

I guess it all depends on the client you are selling to.

That is everyone, (especially girls/ladies) !!!

Remember that I did not actually think of it myself, and found it out by accident ... but it is still a FACT that selfies are (usually) auto-reversed by our cell-phones.

Yes. selfies are reversed in cell phones as it makes it easier for people to pose. People are used to how the image in a mirror reacts when they move. If the selfie was not reversed, then people would end up moving the wrong way when they tried to adjust their position in the frame.

Consider the following. Suppose the person was wearing a perfectly symmetrical mask. The image of the mask would look the same, whether or not it was mirrored. Yet it would still be important to mirror the selfie image. Otherwise, if the person was off center to the right, they would move the wrong way to center themselves in the frame.

It makes much more sense for the selfie camera to act like a mirror for framing and positioning reasons.

Note that I just realized that my FZ-1000 also does it when I rotate the LCD to a front (selfie) position.

So the phone and camera manufacturers know it also ...

As I just mentioned, there are other, very valid reasons for a selfie camera to present a mirrored image. You have no evidence that the camera manufacturer was concerned with how the face looks over ease of framing/positioning.

Does it hurt to try it on a few clients ??? ... (but remember WITHOUT THEM KNOWING IT) !!!

Perhaps a better test is to present them with both the mirrored and normal versions of each image, and see which sells better. Of course, don't tell them which is which.

OK ... that is sorta/exactly what I am suggesting ... try it ...

But I suggest the client may want (only) the flipped-image and I would not release that to them -- because they will then show the image to "others".

My method was to "sell" from (only) the flipped, and after selection EXPLAIN (why) their delivered images would be correct ... so they were prepared to expect the images may be slightly "different", (but truly more accurate).

But if your clients are unhappy with the results when you show them normal images, is it possible that the mirror vs. normal isn't the issue? My experience is that if I have captured a good expression, with good lighting and good composition, the client is very happy, even without having to mirror the image.

Not arguing that at all ... but do you think it is possible for them to be even "happier" ... (that was my very frequent experience) ???

NOTE that I am not alone in this ... simply GOOGLE: "why do people like their appearance in a mirror" ... there are dozens of side-by-side images of even movie-stars that look totally different when flipped.

 

[Victor Engel]

The phone and camera makers may have a different reason for reversing the image for selfies: movement. In fact, I would suggest this is a much more important reason. When reversed, it's easy to track the motion of the image on the screen, since it exactly mirrors the subject movement. When not reversed, the movement is exactly opposite. So you have to think backward in order to recompose.

That is obviously true ...

But does not explain why people "like" their selfies so much better than regular photos.

Don't take my word for it -- I already posted that I am not alone in this view .... just GOOGLE: "why do people like their mirror image".

It is not a debatable issue ...

Instead of showing a reversed image, try a non-reversed image tilted so that their left eye is higher. That should switch their left-eye gaze (observer perspective) to the left eye (subject perspective) as they are used to seeing in a mirror.

A tilt of the head facilitates social engagement, researchers say

Every time we look at a face, we take in a flood of information effortlessly: age, gender, race, expression, the direction of our subject's gaze, perhaps even their mood. How the brain does this is a mystery.

news.ucsc.edu

 

[Michael Fryd]

Solution looking for a problem.

But I suggest it is a problem when a client looks at an image of someone they have never seen before, (since they see themselves in mirrors many times every day).

Have you ever seen anyone negatively comment on themselves when they take "selfies" with their phones -- which are automatically reversed for that very reason ??? ... (contrary to many-many people who comment that they take "terrible" regular photos and "never like them")

I have lots of clients that don't like the way they look when they see themselves in a mirror. They are used to thinking themselves as not being pretty.

But seeing a typical (normal) photo of themselves does not change or improve that ... it can only be worse.

I am interested in why you think that seeing a normal (not mirrored) image of themselves can only be worse? You have already asserted that a normal image does not look like the self image people see in mirrors. If someone doesn't like the mirrored image they are used to, why would a different image be worse? Might not they see it as "better" as it doesn't look like them?

After all, the image in the mirror doesn't match the polished and retouched images they see on TV, in magazines, or in online celebrity photos.

Perhaps they like the photos that I take because they look different from the mirror image they are used to seeing? Perhaps the un-mirrored image doesn't remind themselves of the unkempt person they see in the morning when they are brushing their teeth?

I suggest the un-mirrrored is 'that' different (enough to make them beautiful), just enough that it does looks (slightly) 'different'.

But that does remind me of the "Glamor-Shot" studios that were in all the malls back in the '90's.

They had professional hair-dressers who restyled hair into a 'different' style, make-up artists for a 'Hollywood' look, and extremely soft-focus lenses -- so it truly didn't look like them. Some ladies liked the look, but some didn't, (because it still was not the "mirror" look they "knew").

A mirrored image is how they are used to seeing their own face. If they think that presentation is a perfect face, then they may very well prefer a mirrored image.

However, many people don't like their on face. They don't like that the fae they see when brushing their teeth, doesn't match the glamorous faces they hold up as a standard. By showing them something different (an un-mirrored version) they are less likely to see it as the unkempt morning image, and more likely to see it as something different. If you are unhappy with the mirrored image, different may be better.

I can see that if someone has a high opinion of themselves, and is obsessed with the image they are constantly looking at in the mirror, they might prefer a mirrored photograph.

I guess it all depends on the client you are selling to.

That is everyone, (especially girls/ladies) !!!

Remember that I did not actually think of it myself, and found it out by accident ... but it is still a FACT that selfies are (usually) auto-reversed by our cell-phones.

Yes. selfies are reversed in cell phones as it makes it easier for people to pose. People are used to how the image in a mirror reacts when they move. If the selfie was not reversed, then people would end up moving the wrong way when they tried to adjust their position in the frame.

Consider the following. Suppose the person was wearing a perfectly symmetrical mask. The image of the mask would look the same, whether or not it was mirrored. Yet it would still be important to mirror the selfie image. Otherwise, if the person was off center to the right, they would move the wrong way to center themselves in the frame.

It makes much more sense for the selfie camera to act like a mirror for framing and positioning reasons.

Note that I just realized that my FZ-1000 also does it when I rotate the LCD to a front (selfie) position.

So the phone and camera manufacturers know it also ...

As I just mentioned, there are other, very valid reasons for a selfie camera to present a mirrored image. You have no evidence that the camera manufacturer was concerned with how the face looks over ease of framing/positioning.

Does it hurt to try it on a few clients ??? ... (but remember WITHOUT THEM KNOWING IT) !!!

Perhaps a better test is to present them with both the mirrored and normal versions of each image, and see which sells better. Of course, don't tell them which is which.

OK ... that is sorta/exactly what I am suggesting ... try it ...

But I suggest the client may want (only) the flipped-image and I would not release that to them -- because they will then show the image to "others".

My method was to "sell" from (only) the flipped, and after selection EXPLAIN (why) their delivered images would be correct ... so they were prepared to expect the images may be slightly "different", (but truly more accurate).

Interesting. Your position is that customers prefer mirrored images, but would not sell them those images.

My experience is that this is not great for sales. I find that people in general are not good judges of the quality of a photograph. The level of customer satisfaction is usually far more influenced by customer service. I know some successful photographers that are great with interfacing with customers, but their images are only mediocre.

In my opinion (and reasonable people may disagree), word of mouth recommendations from happy customers is far better for sales than producing great images for not so happy customers.

I would never tease a customer with an image that they liked better, and then refuse to sell it to them. I see that as a recipe for unhappy customers.

If your customers prefer the mirrored image, why not sell them that? After all, other potential clients will be far more interested in hearing how happy this customer was, than in looking at their photos.

But if your clients are unhappy with the results when you show them normal images, is it possible that the mirror vs. normal isn't the issue? My experience is that if I have captured a good expression, with good lighting and good composition, the client is very happy, even without having to mirror the image.

Not arguing that at all ... but do you think it is possible for them to be even "happier" ... (that was my very frequent experience) ???

Again, if the clients are happier with the mirrored photos, I would be happy to sell it to them. My goal is to have happy customers. I am running a business and happy customers are the best marketing.

NOTE that I am not alone in this ... simply GOOGLE: "why do people like their appearance in a mirror" ... there are dozens of side-by-side images of even movie-stars that look totally different when flipped.

 

[PhotoTeach2]

Solution looking for a problem.

But I suggest it is a problem when a client looks at an image of someone they have never seen before, (since they see themselves in mirrors many times every day).

Have you ever seen anyone negatively comment on themselves when they take "selfies" with their phones -- which are automatically reversed for that very reason ??? ... (contrary to many-many people who comment that they take "terrible" regular photos and "never like them")

I have lots of clients that don't like the way they look when they see themselves in a mirror. They are used to thinking themselves as not being pretty.

But seeing a typical (normal) photo of themselves does not change or improve that ... it can only be worse.

I am interested in why you think that seeing a normal (not mirrored) image of themselves can only be worse? You have already asserted that a normal image does not look like the self image people see in mirrors. If someone doesn't like the mirrored image they are used to, why would a different image be worse? Might not they see it as "better" as it doesn't look like them?

After all, the image in the mirror doesn't match the polished and retouched images they see on TV, in magazines, or in online celebrity photos.

Perhaps they like the photos that I take because they look different from the mirror image they are used to seeing? Perhaps the un-mirrored image doesn't remind themselves of the unkempt person they see in the morning when they are brushing their teeth?

I suggest the un-mirrrored is 'that' different (enough to make them beautiful), just enough that it does looks (slightly) 'different'.

But that does remind me of the "Glamor-Shot" studios that were in all the malls back in the '90's.

They had professional hair-dressers who restyled hair into a 'different' style, make-up artists for a 'Hollywood' look, and extremely soft-focus lenses -- so it truly didn't look like them. Some ladies liked the look, but some didn't, (because it still was not the "mirror" look they "knew").

A mirrored image is how they are used to seeing their own face. If they think that presentation is a perfect face, then they may very well prefer a mirrored image.

However, many people don't like their on face. They don't like that the fae they see when brushing their teeth, doesn't match the glamorous faces they hold up as a standard. By showing them something different (an un-mirrored version) they are less likely to see it as the unkempt morning image, and more likely to see it as something different. If you are unhappy with the mirrored image, different may be better.

I can see that if someone has a high opinion of themselves, and is obsessed with the image they are constantly looking at in the mirror, they might prefer a mirrored photograph.

I guess it all depends on the client you are selling to.

That is everyone, (especially girls/ladies) !!!

Remember that I did not actually think of it myself, and found it out by accident ... but it is still a FACT that selfies are (usually) auto-reversed by our cell-phones.

Yes. selfies are reversed in cell phones as it makes it easier for people to pose. People are used to how the image in a mirror reacts when they move. If the selfie was not reversed, then people would end up moving the wrong way when they tried to adjust their position in the frame.

Consider the following. Suppose the person was wearing a perfectly symmetrical mask. The image of the mask would look the same, whether or not it was mirrored. Yet it would still be important to mirror the selfie image. Otherwise, if the person was off center to the right, they would move the wrong way to center themselves in the frame.

It makes much more sense for the selfie camera to act like a mirror for framing and positioning reasons.

Note that I just realized that my FZ-1000 also does it when I rotate the LCD to a front (selfie) position.

So the phone and camera manufacturers know it also ...

As I just mentioned, there are other, very valid reasons for a selfie camera to present a mirrored image. You have no evidence that the camera manufacturer was concerned with how the face looks over ease of framing/positioning.

Does it hurt to try it on a few clients ??? ... (but remember WITHOUT THEM KNOWING IT) !!!

Perhaps a better test is to present them with both the mirrored and normal versions of each image, and see which sells better. Of course, don't tell them which is which.

OK ... that is sorta/exactly what I am suggesting ... try it ...

But I suggest the client may want (only) the flipped-image and I would not release that to them -- because they will then show the image to "others".

My method was to "sell" from (only) the flipped, and after selection EXPLAIN (why) their delivered images would be correct ... so they were prepared to expect the images may be slightly "different", (but truly more accurate).

Interesting. Your position is that customers prefer mirrored images, but would not sell them those images.

My experience is that this is not great for sales. I find that people in general are not good judges of the quality of a photograph. The level of customer satisfaction is usually far more influenced by customer service. I know some successful photographers that are great with interfacing with customers, but their images are only mediocre.

In my opinion (and reasonable people may disagree), word of mouth recommendations from happy customers is far better for sales than producing great images for not so happy customers.

I would never tease a customer with an image that they liked better, and then refuse to sell it to them. I see that as a recipe for unhappy customers.

If your customers prefer the mirrored image, why not sell them that? After all, other potential clients will be far more interested in hearing how happy this customer was, than in looking at their photos.

But if your clients are unhappy with the results when you show them normal images, is it possible that the mirror vs. normal isn't the issue? My experience is that if I have captured a good expression, with good lighting and good composition, the client is very happy, even without having to mirror the image.

Not arguing that at all ... but do you think it is possible for them to be even "happier" ... (that was my very frequent experience) ???

Again, if the clients are happier with the mirrored photos, I would be happy to sell it to them. My goal is to have happy customers. I am running a business and happy customers are the best marketing.

It is not so much that I "refuse" to sell them their mirrored images, I simply explain WHY they are flipped (and thus more 'recognizable' to themselves-ONLY), and that for the same reason, they would not want to show the flipped images to others.

I suppose I would give/sell them the flipped, but most understand and thus then wants images that actually looks best to others.

NOTE that I am not alone in this ... simply GOOGLE: "why do people like their appearance in a mirror" ... there are dozens of side-by-side images of even movie-stars that look totally different when flipped.

Did you see some of the many example images online ???

You could even try it with yourself !!!

 

[photolando]

It all sounds too complicated. My clients see the proofs immediately after the sitting. Been doing that for years. No on-line proofing and actual printed proofs never live the studio or whatever location I am shooting at. In person selling only. IMHO it's the only way to close more sales and to have higher ones.

I fully agree with each point ... especially the "in person" since the intent is for the client to (more) identify with "her/his" images, and thus "love" them rather than forcing themselves to (only) "like" them.

If another person saw the images, they would (probably) NOT like them, (for the same reason the client themself would more identify with reversed/mirror images). So this was only for "in person" selling.

As for too-complicated ... how long would it take to create a duplicate (R) file (2-seconds), and then do a batch L/R-reverse (another 5-seconds) ... then SHOW THAT "R" FILE to the client. After selection, then obviously print/deliver from the original file.

I found it was worth it to get the much-more "excited" reactions I got from my clients when they were seeing themselves as they actually KNEW (or thought they knew) how they looked.

The bottom line is they (more eagerly) bought more images as they more inherently "loved" their (more recognized) images.

The secret again is to NOT TELL THEM the images are reversed until after they make their selections, (otherwise the clients are just confused) -- but I suggest clients are inherently "confused" anyway when they see (correct) images of themselves because they are truly looking at a stranger they have really never seen before.

In all my years shooting portraits, this is my 30 year, I've never had a problem with what you are describing. It is however why I try to shoot both sides of their face. Especially with my headshots. We DO look "better" shot with our face turned one way over the other. Unless your face is very symmetrical. A lot of model's faces are this way.

I really don't think a reversed image is what's helping. I think they just look better faced either from the left or the right.

I, for example think I look better showing more of the left side of my face to camera. In fact, I find MOST people look better this way, but not all.

I also find most people just pose more comfortably one way or another. I tell them to turn left and "pose" and it looks very comfortable and natural. Then tell them to do the same thing turned to the right and they just don't fall into it as naturally as they did on the left. Or vice versa.

Just things I have noticed after shooting literally thousands of portraits over the years.


Mike