Ready for the next Level DC. DSLR

[David SL]

Hello All,

I have been using digital cameras for about 6 years now, the first one I used was a Kodak dc90 I believe ( rectangular form factor) I bought a Kodak dc260 a couple of years back and last year I bought the 990. ( I love that camera.) I have learned a great deal about photography in that time, being of a technical and artistic background. I was intrigued by both the art of photography and digital camera technology. ( I am a self trained illustrator and computer programmer by profession.) I feel its time I got my hands on a "real" SLR, I await next years batch of 5-6mp cameras before making my next DC purchase. I actually vowed not to buy another DC until a 6mp sensor is wrapped in a camera body that accepts removable lenses and costs no more than $2,000. I think Nikon has really ignored the professional -sumer space, the same one being dominated by the D30. Earlier this year they releaesed the D1H which in my view is great for photojournalists, but a budding general purpose photographer needs several things in a DC that a photojournalist doesn't.

1) Big Low Noise sensor (5mp+)
2) Full Auto, Full manual: Aperture, Shutter, Focus(to limits of attached lens)

3) Adjustable Tone,Contrast,Saturation,Levels,Sharpness (at least 10 levels each)
4) Low noise High ISO up to 400.

5) Accepts standard lenses (from any major manufacturer.) Canon, Nikon, Olympus..etc.
6) Retail $2,000 (no lens)
7) RAW image format!

That's it, I want to be able to tweak my images to print perfection if I so desire in camera or out (photoshop) I need to have the ability to choose the lens I am using, select my focus manually in a user friendly SLR fashion(with a lens ring) and I need to have the ability to go to high ISO(at least 400) to get low noise shots in low light without having to pay a noise penalty for it. I need to be able to print my images at 8 x 10 size at about 300dpi output resolution. I estimate this will render detail similar to a 35mm 8 x 10 print. I don't want anything else, I don't need it to be particularly fast shot to shot ( as the D1h is..3fps would be more than enough) I don't need it to be as rugged as the D1x. It should be strong, but not built for war. It should be built for budding photographers like me, wanting to really shoot pictures and not afraid to pay just a bit more for a body that provides the general shooting versatility of what I could get in a $400 35mm film SLR right now. I don't want to pay an arm and leg for features I don't need, (huge shot to shot speed, buffer. Rugged expensive case.) I believe that the major players now have the ability to build a body as described above but for whatever reason, (Clinging to film profit margins ??) they are not doing it. Canon came close with their D30, but chose to make the next "D" model the 1D a "professional" model. It would have been nice if they released a D30b with a larger sensor (still CMOS) for less money! The D30 is still selling for $3,000....unacceptable! The use of the D30 as a general shooter for advanced amatures has already been proven, but I doubt the total costs of production are still in the $3,000 dollar range. Weren't CMOS ccd's supposed to introduce cost efficiencies beyond standard CCD's because they could be built on existing semiconductor fabs and be subject to moores law ? Why didn't that ever materialize? Why does it seem as if digital camera technology(CCD's) are not subject to moore's law as the rest of the semiconductor industry is? I am well aware of the advantages and disadvantages of the two technologies, but I think CCD's should be advancing far quicker in digital cameras. I think that in the transition from film to digital these old guard camera makers are trying their best to eek out profit margins by selling their best DC's as rare "professional" devices. They could easily sell them in tiers catered to photographers depending on features needed, yet they don't seem to be doing it to me. Personally, there should be cameras from each manufacturer at the following cost/performance tiers. $1000/$1500/$2000/$2500 The D30 is proof that they can make a general purpose DSLR using CMOS technology but for being over a year on the market its 3,000 price tag just doesn't make sense. I wonder just how long it will take them ( any one) to make my camera? Will they continue to delay its production in hopes of catering to "photojournalists" and "professionals" ?

I know, its a bit raving and ranting but you get the idea. I am ready for an affordable more pro than sumer DSLR, aren't you ? I'd like to read your thoughts on the matter.

Regards,

--DSL

 

[JerryO]

Hello All,

I have been using digital cameras for about 6 years now, the first
one I used was a Kodak dc90 I believe ( rectangular form factor) I
bought a Kodak dc260 a couple of years back and last year I bought
the 990. ( I love that camera.) I have learned a great deal about
photography in that time, being of a technical and artistic
background. I was intrigued by both the art of photography and
digital camera technology. ( I am a self trained illustrator and
computer programmer by profession.) I feel its time I got my hands
on a "real" SLR, I await next years batch of 5-6mp cameras before
making my next DC purchase. I actually vowed not to buy another DC
until a 6mp sensor is wrapped in a camera body that accepts
removable lenses and costs no more than $2,000. I think Nikon has
really ignored the professional -sumer space, the same one being
dominated by the D30. Earlier this year they releaesed the D1H
which in my view is great for photojournalists, but a budding
general purpose photographer needs several things in a DC that a
photojournalist doesn't.

1) Big Low Noise sensor (5mp+)
2) Full Auto, Full manual: Aperture, Shutter, Focus(to limits of
attached lens)
3) Adjustable Tone,Contrast,Saturation,Levels,Sharpness (at least
10 levels each)
4) Low noise High ISO up to 400.
5) Accepts standard lenses (from any major manufacturer.) Canon,
Nikon, Olympus..etc.
6) Retail $2,000 (no lens)
7) RAW image format!

That's it, I want to be able to tweak my images to print perfection
if I so desire in camera or out (photoshop) I need to have the
ability to choose the lens I am using, select my focus manually in
a user friendly SLR fashion(with a lens ring) and I need to have
the ability to go to high ISO(at least 400) to get low noise shots
in low light without having to pay a noise penalty for it. I need
to be able to print my images at 8 x 10 size at about 300dpi output
resolution. I estimate this will render detail similar to a 35mm 8
x 10 print. I don't want anything else, I don't need it to be
particularly fast shot to shot ( as the D1h is..3fps would be more
than enough) I don't need it to be as rugged as the D1x. It should
be strong, but not built for war. It should be built for budding
photographers like me, wanting to really shoot pictures and not
afraid to pay just a bit more for a body that provides the general
shooting versatility of what I could get in a $400 35mm film SLR
right now. I don't want to pay an arm and leg for features I don't
need, (huge shot to shot speed, buffer. Rugged expensive case.) I
believe that the major players now have the ability to build a body
as described above but for whatever reason, (Clinging to film
profit margins ??) they are not doing it. Canon came close with
their D30, but chose to make the next "D" model the 1D a
"professional" model. It would have been nice if they released a
D30b with a larger sensor (still CMOS) for less money! The D30 is
still selling for $3,000....unacceptable! The use of the D30 as a
general shooter for advanced amatures has already been proven, but
I doubt the total costs of production are still in the $3,000
dollar range. Weren't CMOS ccd's supposed to introduce cost
efficiencies beyond standard CCD's because they could be built on
existing semiconductor fabs and be subject to moores law ? Why
didn't that ever materialize? Why does it seem as if digital camera
technology(CCD's) are not subject to moore's law as the rest of the
semiconductor industry is? I am well aware of the advantages and
disadvantages of the two technologies, but I think CCD's should be
advancing far quicker in digital cameras. I think that in the
transition from film to digital these old guard camera makers are
trying their best to eek out profit margins by selling their best
DC's as rare "professional" devices. They could easily sell them in
tiers catered to photographers depending on features needed, yet
they don't seem to be doing it to me. Personally, there should be
cameras from each manufacturer at the following cost/performance
tiers. $1000/$1500/$2000/$2500 The D30 is proof that they can make
a general purpose DSLR using CMOS technology but for being over a
year on the market its 3,000 price tag just doesn't make sense. I
wonder just how long it will take them ( any one) to make my
camera? Will they continue to delay its production in hopes of
catering to "photojournalists" and "professionals" ?

I know, its a bit raving and ranting but you get the idea. I am
ready for an affordable more pro than sumer DSLR, aren't you ? I'd
like to read your thoughts on the matter.

Regards,

--
DSL

 

[David SL]

LOL,

JerryO you have no idea how tempted I am, but that price point ! Ouch!! My point is, if the D30 had depreciated in value like most technology does after a year on the market maybe I would have bought it. It however (and many other DC's) seems to be stuck in "too darned expensive" land, for a budding advanced amateur like myself. Prices aren't coming down as quickly as they should.

Regards,

Dsl

Hello All,

I have been using digital cameras for about 6 years now, the first
one I used was a Kodak dc90 I believe ( rectangular form factor) I
bought a Kodak dc260 a couple of years back and last year I bought
the 990. ( I love that camera.) I have learned a great deal about
photography in that time, being of a technical and artistic
background. I was intrigued by both the art of photography and
digital camera technology. ( I am a self trained illustrator and
computer programmer by profession.) I feel its time I got my hands
on a "real" SLR, I await next years batch of 5-6mp cameras before
making my next DC purchase. I actually vowed not to buy another DC
until a 6mp sensor is wrapped in a camera body that accepts
removable lenses and costs no more than $2,000. I think Nikon has
really ignored the professional -sumer space, the same one being
dominated by the D30. Earlier this year they releaesed the D1H
which in my view is great for photojournalists, but a budding
general purpose photographer needs several things in a DC that a
photojournalist doesn't.

1) Big Low Noise sensor (5mp+)
2) Full Auto, Full manual: Aperture, Shutter, Focus(to limits of
attached lens)
3) Adjustable Tone,Contrast,Saturation,Levels,Sharpness (at least
10 levels each)
4) Low noise High ISO up to 400.
5) Accepts standard lenses (from any major manufacturer.) Canon,
Nikon, Olympus..etc.
6) Retail $2,000 (no lens)
7) RAW image format!

That's it, I want to be able to tweak my images to print perfection
if I so desire in camera or out (photoshop) I need to have the
ability to choose the lens I am using, select my focus manually in
a user friendly SLR fashion(with a lens ring) and I need to have
the ability to go to high ISO(at least 400) to get low noise shots
in low light without having to pay a noise penalty for it. I need
to be able to print my images at 8 x 10 size at about 300dpi output
resolution. I estimate this will render detail similar to a 35mm 8
x 10 print. I don't want anything else, I don't need it to be
particularly fast shot to shot ( as the D1h is..3fps would be more
than enough) I don't need it to be as rugged as the D1x. It should
be strong, but not built for war. It should be built for budding
photographers like me, wanting to really shoot pictures and not
afraid to pay just a bit more for a body that provides the general
shooting versatility of what I could get in a $400 35mm film SLR
right now. I don't want to pay an arm and leg for features I don't
need, (huge shot to shot speed, buffer. Rugged expensive case.) I
believe that the major players now have the ability to build a body
as described above but for whatever reason, (Clinging to film
profit margins ??) they are not doing it. Canon came close with
their D30, but chose to make the next "D" model the 1D a
"professional" model. It would have been nice if they released a
D30b with a larger sensor (still CMOS) for less money! The D30 is
still selling for $3,000....unacceptable! The use of the D30 as a
general shooter for advanced amatures has already been proven, but
I doubt the total costs of production are still in the $3,000
dollar range. Weren't CMOS ccd's supposed to introduce cost
efficiencies beyond standard CCD's because they could be built on
existing semiconductor fabs and be subject to moores law ? Why
didn't that ever materialize? Why does it seem as if digital camera
technology(CCD's) are not subject to moore's law as the rest of the
semiconductor industry is? I am well aware of the advantages and
disadvantages of the two technologies, but I think CCD's should be
advancing far quicker in digital cameras. I think that in the
transition from film to digital these old guard camera makers are
trying their best to eek out profit margins by selling their best
DC's as rare "professional" devices. They could easily sell them in
tiers catered to photographers depending on features needed, yet
they don't seem to be doing it to me. Personally, there should be
cameras from each manufacturer at the following cost/performance
tiers. $1000/$1500/$2000/$2500 The D30 is proof that they can make
a general purpose DSLR using CMOS technology but for being over a
year on the market its 3,000 price tag just doesn't make sense. I
wonder just how long it will take them ( any one) to make my
camera? Will they continue to delay its production in hopes of
catering to "photojournalists" and "professionals" ?

I know, its a bit raving and ranting but you get the idea. I am
ready for an affordable more pro than sumer DSLR, aren't you ? I'd
like to read your thoughts on the matter.

Regards,

--
DSL

--DSL

 

[JohB]

You should shop around the D30 can be found for under $2000.

JohnB

Hello All,

I have been using digital cameras for about 6 years now, the first
one I used was a Kodak dc90 I believe ( rectangular form factor) I
bought a Kodak dc260 a couple of years back and last year I bought
the 990. ( I love that camera.) I have learned a great deal about
photography in that time, being of a technical and artistic
background. I was intrigued by both the art of photography and
digital camera technology. ( I am a self trained illustrator and
computer programmer by profession.) I feel its time I got my hands
on a "real" SLR, I await next years batch of 5-6mp cameras before
making my next DC purchase. I actually vowed not to buy another DC
until a 6mp sensor is wrapped in a camera body that accepts
removable lenses and costs no more than $2,000. I think Nikon has
really ignored the professional -sumer space, the same one being
dominated by the D30. Earlier this year they releaesed the D1H
which in my view is great for photojournalists, but a budding
general purpose photographer needs several things in a DC that a
photojournalist doesn't.

1) Big Low Noise sensor (5mp+)
2) Full Auto, Full manual: Aperture, Shutter, Focus(to limits of
attached lens)
3) Adjustable Tone,Contrast,Saturation,Levels,Sharpness (at least
10 levels each)
4) Low noise High ISO up to 400.
5) Accepts standard lenses (from any major manufacturer.) Canon,
Nikon, Olympus..etc.
6) Retail $2,000 (no lens)
7) RAW image format!

That's it, I want to be able to tweak my images to print perfection
if I so desire in camera or out (photoshop) I need to have the
ability to choose the lens I am using, select my focus manually in
a user friendly SLR fashion(with a lens ring) and I need to have
the ability to go to high ISO(at least 400) to get low noise shots
in low light without having to pay a noise penalty for it. I need
to be able to print my images at 8 x 10 size at about 300dpi output
resolution. I estimate this will render detail similar to a 35mm 8
x 10 print. I don't want anything else, I don't need it to be
particularly fast shot to shot ( as the D1h is..3fps would be more
than enough) I don't need it to be as rugged as the D1x. It should
be strong, but not built for war. It should be built for budding
photographers like me, wanting to really shoot pictures and not
afraid to pay just a bit more for a body that provides the general
shooting versatility of what I could get in a $400 35mm film SLR
right now. I don't want to pay an arm and leg for features I don't
need, (huge shot to shot speed, buffer. Rugged expensive case.) I
believe that the major players now have the ability to build a body
as described above but for whatever reason, (Clinging to film
profit margins ??) they are not doing it. Canon came close with
their D30, but chose to make the next "D" model the 1D a
"professional" model. It would have been nice if they released a
D30b with a larger sensor (still CMOS) for less money! The D30 is
still selling for $3,000....unacceptable! The use of the D30 as a
general shooter for advanced amatures has already been proven, but
I doubt the total costs of production are still in the $3,000
dollar range. Weren't CMOS ccd's supposed to introduce cost
efficiencies beyond standard CCD's because they could be built on
existing semiconductor fabs and be subject to moores law ? Why
didn't that ever materialize? Why does it seem as if digital camera
technology(CCD's) are not subject to moore's law as the rest of the
semiconductor industry is? I am well aware of the advantages and
disadvantages of the two technologies, but I think CCD's should be
advancing far quicker in digital cameras. I think that in the
transition from film to digital these old guard camera makers are
trying their best to eek out profit margins by selling their best
DC's as rare "professional" devices. They could easily sell them in
tiers catered to photographers depending on features needed, yet
they don't seem to be doing it to me. Personally, there should be
cameras from each manufacturer at the following cost/performance
tiers. $1000/$1500/$2000/$2500 The D30 is proof that they can make
a general purpose DSLR using CMOS technology but for being over a
year on the market its 3,000 price tag just doesn't make sense. I
wonder just how long it will take them ( any one) to make my
camera? Will they continue to delay its production in hopes of
catering to "photojournalists" and "professionals" ?

I know, its a bit raving and ranting but you get the idea. I am
ready for an affordable more pro than sumer DSLR, aren't you ? I'd
like to read your thoughts on the matter.

Regards,

--
DSL

 

[BobMcD]

David,

You're so right! I'm a long-time Nikon F3 user, with some very nice lenses I've bought over the years. Get us a digital camera with a sensor large enough (near 1" by 1.5") to reasonably use those lenses, and I'll happily pay $2000 for the body. You know it's coming, I know it's coming, so all we can do now is get ready!

You started in digital years ago, while I just stuck to film. I ordered a CP5000 on Saturday, and figure it'll hold me for up two or three years while I learn digital photography. I've been practicing with Photoshop for three months to "get ready", and I think it'll take several months of shooting to learn a reasonable amount about successful pictures with a digital camera.

The D30 is an interesting camera, but I agree with you about the price. I haven't used a rangefinder camera for over thirty years, but I guess I'll get to savor those days for a couple of years now.

I don't see why Nikon couldn't bring out a decent autofocus DSLR soon, with the capabilities you describe. In place of the 35mm motor drive, give us a decent quick-change rechargable battery pack, and enough computer power and buffer to take ten 6Mb photos in a couple of seconds and store them to CF media as fast as the media can accept them.

For now I guess I'll just take my old film SLR and the new CP5000 on my self-imposed shooting assignments, take the best photos I can with each, and try to get the digital photos near to my film photos' quality. This is going to be fun, but it'll be MORE fun when the camera you described is available. Heck, an F5 is an amazing camera and it seems positively reasonable by digital camera standards!

Bob

 

[John Lai]

Hi David,

I remember reading on this forum, someone said (before CP 5000 was released) a salesman at B&H told him that Nikon is actually working on a semi professional camera. I don't remember which post it was. Try e-mailing Nikon customer service to get confirmation or try inquiring with the sales manager of a reputable camera shop.. What is inconvenient with prosumer cameras is we have no choice of zoom range. Take it or forget about it.

Regards
John

Hello All,

I have been using digital cameras for about 6 years now, the first
one I used was a Kodak dc90 I believe ( rectangular form factor) I
bought a Kodak dc260 a couple of years back and last year I bought
the 990. ( I love that camera.) I have learned a great deal about
photography in that time, being of a technical and artistic
background. I was intrigued by both the art of photography and
digital camera technology. ( I am a self trained illustrator and
computer programmer by profession.) I feel its time I got my hands
on a "real" SLR, I await next years batch of 5-6mp cameras before
making my next DC purchase. I actually vowed not to buy another DC
until a 6mp sensor is wrapped in a camera body that accepts
removable lenses and costs no more than $2,000. I think Nikon has
really ignored the professional -sumer space, the same one being
dominated by the D30. Earlier this year they releaesed the D1H
which in my view is great for photojournalists, but a budding
general purpose photographer needs several things in a DC that a
photojournalist doesn't.

1) Big Low Noise sensor (5mp+)
2) Full Auto, Full manual: Aperture, Shutter, Focus(to limits of
attached lens)
3) Adjustable Tone,Contrast,Saturation,Levels,Sharpness (at least
10 levels each)
4) Low noise High ISO up to 400.
5) Accepts standard lenses (from any major manufacturer.) Canon,
Nikon, Olympus..etc.
6) Retail $2,000 (no lens)
7) RAW image format!

That's it, I want to be able to tweak my images to print perfection
if I so desire in camera or out (photoshop) I need to have the
ability to choose the lens I am using, select my focus manually in
a user friendly SLR fashion(with a lens ring) and I need to have
the ability to go to high ISO(at least 400) to get low noise shots
in low light without having to pay a noise penalty for it. I need
to be able to print my images at 8 x 10 size at about 300dpi output
resolution. I estimate this will render detail similar to a 35mm 8
x 10 print. I don't want anything else, I don't need it to be
particularly fast shot to shot ( as the D1h is..3fps would be more
than enough) I don't need it to be as rugged as the D1x. It should
be strong, but not built for war. It should be built for budding
photographers like me, wanting to really shoot pictures and not
afraid to pay just a bit more for a body that provides the general
shooting versatility of what I could get in a $400 35mm film SLR
right now. I don't want to pay an arm and leg for features I don't
need, (huge shot to shot speed, buffer. Rugged expensive case.) I
believe that the major players now have the ability to build a body
as described above but for whatever reason, (Clinging to film
profit margins ??) they are not doing it. Canon came close with
their D30, but chose to make the next "D" model the 1D a
"professional" model. It would have been nice if they released a
D30b with a larger sensor (still CMOS) for less money! The D30 is
still selling for $3,000....unacceptable! The use of the D30 as a
general shooter for advanced amatures has already been proven, but
I doubt the total costs of production are still in the $3,000
dollar range. Weren't CMOS ccd's supposed to introduce cost
efficiencies beyond standard CCD's because they could be built on
existing semiconductor fabs and be subject to moores law ? Why
didn't that ever materialize? Why does it seem as if digital camera
technology(CCD's) are not subject to moore's law as the rest of the
semiconductor industry is? I am well aware of the advantages and
disadvantages of the two technologies, but I think CCD's should be
advancing far quicker in digital cameras. I think that in the
transition from film to digital these old guard camera makers are
trying their best to eek out profit margins by selling their best
DC's as rare "professional" devices. They could easily sell them in
tiers catered to photographers depending on features needed, yet
they don't seem to be doing it to me. Personally, there should be
cameras from each manufacturer at the following cost/performance
tiers. $1000/$1500/$2000/$2500 The D30 is proof that they can make
a general purpose DSLR using CMOS technology but for being over a
year on the market its 3,000 price tag just doesn't make sense. I
wonder just how long it will take them ( any one) to make my
camera? Will they continue to delay its production in hopes of
catering to "photojournalists" and "professionals" ?

I know, its a bit raving and ranting but you get the idea. I am
ready for an affordable more pro than sumer DSLR, aren't you ? I'd
like to read your thoughts on the matter.

Regards,

--
DSL

 

[AntoineB.]

Hi David,
It takes some time to assimilate and evaluate digital images
objectively. The art of seeing is a growing process and each
person has different perceptive criteria along the way. Here
are a few of my thoughts regarding your post.
The D30 has surpassed 35 mm up to 11 x 14 print size. Check
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/d30.htm
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/d30_vs_film.htm
Today a brand new D30 with 2 year waranty can be bought for $2200
or even less in the US, lucky Americans! Canon has extended the
offer of free 1 GB microdrive + extra battery till January 31. These
microdrives are selling for $400 meaning the D30 is really only $1800
new! Add $400 for a good starter lens) . The contrast between the D30
and the CP5000 makes the CP5000 look like an expensive $1100 gadget
and the D30 like a super bargain! Even with 8 megapixels, a CP8000
wouldn't match image quality of the D30's 3MP CMOS images at ANY
(yes ANY) print size. This says it all, but verify for yourself. The D30 images
can be interpolated immensly with no artifact or aberration. Another
important consideration is the very subtle tonal range on the D30. Many
people have purchased several P&S "disposable" digicams so far, nearly
totaling the cost of a pro SLR. I believe this process is wasteful and is
being reconsidered by people such as yourself. After 8 months of studying,
comparing, downloading and testing in PhotoShop, my search has ended.
I'm now looking for the best deal on a D30 in Canada. Good luck to you.
AntoineB

Hello All,

I have been using digital cameras for about 6 years now, the first
one I used was a Kodak dc90 I believe ( rectangular form factor) I
bought a Kodak dc260 a couple of years back and last year I bought
the 990. ( I love that camera.) I have learned a great deal about
photography in that time, being of a technical and artistic
background. I was intrigued by both the art of photography and
digital camera technology.
I feel its time I got my hands
on a "real" SLR, I await next years batch of 5-6mp cameras before
making my next DC purchase.
I actually vowed not to buy another DC
until a 6mp sensor is wrapped in a camera body that accepts
removable lenses and costs no more than $2,000. I think Nikon has
really ignored the professional -sumer space, the same one being
dominated by the D30.

1) Big Low Noise sensor (5mp+)
2) Full Auto, Full manual: Aperture, Shutter, Focus(to limits of
attached lens)
3) Adjustable Tone,Contrast,Saturation,Levels,Sharpness (at least
10 levels each)
4) Low noise High ISO up to 400.
5) Accepts standard lenses (from any major manufacturer.) Canon,
Nikon, Olympus..etc.
6) Retail $2,000 (no lens)
7) RAW image format!

That's it, I want to be able to tweak my images to print perfection
if I so desire in camera or out (photoshop) I need to have the
ability to choose the lens I am using, select my focus manually in
a user friendly SLR fashion(with a lens ring) and I need to have
the ability to go to high ISO(at least 400) to get low noise shots
in low light without having to pay a noise penalty for it. I need
to be able to print my images at 8 x 10 size at about 300dpi output
resolution. I estimate this will render detail similar to a 35mm 8
x 10 print. I don't want anything else, It should
be strong, but not built for war. It should be built for budding
photographers like me, wanting to really shoot pictures and not
afraid to pay just a bit more for a body that provides the general
shooting versatility of what I could get in a $400 35mm film SLR
right now. I don't want to pay an arm and leg for features I don't
need, (huge shot to shot speed, buffer. Rugged expensive case.) I
believe that the major players now have the ability to build a body
as described above but for whatever reason, (Clinging to film
profit margins ??) they are not doing it. Canon came close with
their D30, but chose to make the next "D" model the 1D a
"professional" model. It would have been nice if they released a
D30b with a larger sensor (still CMOS) for less money! The D30 is
still selling for $3,000....unacceptable! The use of the D30 as a
general shooter for advanced amatures has already been proven, but
I doubt the total costs of production are still in the $3,000
dollar range. Weren't CMOS ccd's supposed to introduce cost
efficiencies beyond standard CCD's because they could be built on
existing semiconductor fabs and be subject to moores law ? Why
didn't that ever materialize? Why does it seem as if digital camera
technology(CCD's) are not subject to moore's law as the rest of the
semiconductor industry is? I am well aware of the advantages and
disadvantages of the two technologies, but I think CCD's should be
advancing far quicker in digital cameras. I think that in the
transition from film to digital these old guard camera makers are
trying their best to eek out profit margins by selling their best
DC's as rare "professional" devices. They could easily sell them in
tiers catered to photographers depending on features needed, yet
they don't seem to be doing it to me. Personally, there should be
cameras from each manufacturer at the following cost/performance
tiers. $1000/$1500/$2000/$2500 The D30 is proof that they can make
a general purpose DSLR using CMOS technology but for being over a
year on the market its 3,000 price tag just doesn't make sense. I
wonder just how long it will take them ( any one) to make my
camera? Will they continue to delay its production in hopes of
catering to "photojournalists" and "professionals" ?

I know, its a bit raving and ranting but you get the idea. I am
ready for an affordable more pro than sumer DSLR, aren't you ? I'd
like to read your thoughts on the matter.

Regards,

--
DSL

 

[JohnM31499]

Hi David,
It takes some time to assimilate and evaluate digital images
objectively. The art of seeing is a growing process and each
person has different perceptive criteria along the way. Here
are a few of my thoughts regarding your post.
The D30 has surpassed 35 mm up to 11 x 14 print size. Check
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/d30.htm
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/d30_vs_film.htm
Today a brand new D30 with 2 year waranty can be bought for $2200
or even less in the US, lucky Americans! Canon has extended the
offer of free 1 GB microdrive + extra battery till January 31. These
microdrives are selling for $400 meaning the D30 is really only $1800
new! Add $400 for a good starter lens) . The contrast between the D30
and the CP5000 makes the CP5000 look like an expensive $1100 gadget
and the D30 like a super bargain! Even with 8 megapixels, a CP8000
wouldn't match image quality of the D30's 3MP CMOS images at ANY
(yes ANY) print size. This says it all, but verify for yourself.
The D30 images
can be interpolated immensly with no artifact or aberration. Another
important consideration is the very subtle tonal range on the D30.
Many
people have purchased several P&S "disposable" digicams so far, nearly
totaling the cost of a pro SLR. I believe this process is wasteful
and is
being reconsidered by people such as yourself. After 8 months of
studying,
comparing, downloading and testing in PhotoShop, my search has ended.
I'm now looking for the best deal on a D30 in Canada. Good luck to
you.
AntoineB

I agree totally here AntoineB,

I own a D30 which can be bought for around $2000.00 now & a Nikon 5000. While the 5000 is most definitely capable of taking some real nice shots, they are not in the same league with my D30 at any size(regardless of some of the claims made on this forum to the contrary).

You will notice that the people claiming the 5000 shots are "equal to a D30" don't actually own a D30. I do, & the D30 wins any comparison I have made hands down.

 

[Franki]

Hello Antoine,

A D30 in Canada costs $3500 without lens and not everybody wants a microdrive.

The link you posted illustrates that more often than not it is the subject and not the camera that makes the picture. Those pictures could have been just as well taken with any camera.

Your perceived superior image quality of the D30 over the cp5000 does not justify a three fold price differential. Now if you want to pay for other features that the camera has that is fine but the extra money is not going towards picture quality.

If I were to jump out of the cp5000 class it would not be for the D30. It is hardly the holy grail of digital Slrs . It is a gadgety poor man's Slr pop-up flash and all and is fast becoming stale.

Hello All,

I have been using digital cameras for about 6 years now, the first
one I used was a Kodak dc90 I believe ( rectangular form factor) I
bought a Kodak dc260 a couple of years back and last year I bought
the 990. ( I love that camera.) I have learned a great deal about
photography in that time, being of a technical and artistic
background. I was intrigued by both the art of photography and
digital camera technology.
I feel its time I got my hands
on a "real" SLR, I await next years batch of 5-6mp cameras before
making my next DC purchase.
I actually vowed not to buy another DC
until a 6mp sensor is wrapped in a camera body that accepts
removable lenses and costs no more than $2,000. I think Nikon has
really ignored the professional -sumer space, the same one being
dominated by the D30.

1) Big Low Noise sensor (5mp+)
2) Full Auto, Full manual: Aperture, Shutter, Focus(to limits of
attached lens)
3) Adjustable Tone,Contrast,Saturation,Levels,Sharpness (at least
10 levels each)
4) Low noise High ISO up to 400.
5) Accepts standard lenses (from any major manufacturer.) Canon,
Nikon, Olympus..etc.
6) Retail $2,000 (no lens)
7) RAW image format!
ject to moores law ? Why
didn't that ever materialize? Why does it seem as if digital camera
technology(CCD's) are not subject to moore's law as the rest of the
semiconductor industry is? I am well aware of the advantages and
disadvantages of the two technologies, but I think CCD's should be
advancing far quicker in digital cameras. I think that in the
transition from film to digital these old guard camera makers are
trying their best to eek out profit margins by selling their best
DC's as rare "professional" devices. They could easily sell them in
tiers catered to photographers depending on features needed, yet
they don't seem to be doing it to me. Personally, there should be
cameras from each manufacturer at the following cost/performance
tiers. $1000/$1500/$2000/$2500 The D30 is proof that they can make
a general purpose DSLR using CMOS technology but for being over a
year on the market its 3,000 price tag just doesn't make sense. I
wonder just how long it will take them ( any one) to make my
camera? Will they continue to delay its production in hopes of
catering to "photojournalists" and "professionals" ?

I know, its a bit raving and ranting but you get the idea. I am
ready for an affordable more pro than sumer DSLR, aren't you ? I'd
like to read your thoughts on the matter.

Regards,

--
DSL

--Franco

 

[JohnM31499]

Hello Antoine,

A D30 in Canada costs $3500 without lens and not everybody wants a
microdrive.

The link you posted illustrates that more often than not it is the
subject and not the camera that makes the picture. Those pictures
could have been just as well taken with any camera.

Your perceived superior image quality of the D30 over the cp5000
does not justify a three fold price differential. Now if you want
to pay for other features that the camera has that is fine but the
extra money is not going towards picture quality.

Not true at all, the D30 has noticably better picture quality than the 5000.

If I were to jump out of the cp5000 class it would not be for the
D30. It is hardly the holy grail of digital Slrs . It is a
gadgety poor man's Slr pop-up flash and all and is fast becoming
stale.

True, the Nikon D1X is the "Holy Grail" of digital slr's although it is almost 3 times the price of the D30. Nobody I know uses the pop up flash in the D30(even though it works 150 times better than the wildly inconsistent 5000 flash). Since when does excellent picture quality become "stale"?? I realize you like your camera Franki, but your postings are starting to be totally ridiculous.

 

[Franki]

Hello John,

I am not attached at the hip with this camera but Antoine B has proven to be an overzealous detractor of this camera and without justification. If the cp5000 is gadget then the D30 is a more expensive gadget.

Your post comparing the D30 to cp5000 output does not play itself out int he way you presented it in actual fact.

This does a disservice to the people that are trying to make a decision about this camera.

Hello Antoine,

A D30 in Canada costs $3500 without lens and not everybody wants a
microdrive.

The link you posted illustrates that more often than not it is the
subject and not the camera that makes the picture. Those pictures
could have been just as well taken with any camera.

Your perceived superior image quality of the D30 over the cp5000
does not justify a three fold price differential. Now if you want
to pay for other features that the camera has that is fine but the
extra money is not going towards picture quality.

Not true at all, the D30 has noticably better picture quality than
the 5000.

If I were to jump out of the cp5000 class it would not be for the
D30. It is hardly the holy grail of digital Slrs . It is a
gadgety poor man's Slr pop-up flash and all and is fast becoming
stale.

True, the Nikon D1X is the "Holy Grail" of digital slr's although
it is almost 3 times the price of the D30. Nobody I know uses the
pop up flash in the D30(even though it works 150 times better than
the wildly inconsistent 5000 flash). Since when does excellent
picture quality become "stale"?? I realize you like your camera
Franki, but your postings are starting to be totally ridiculous.

--Franco

 

[David SL]

Antoine,

You are correct, after more price searching I've found the D30 for far less than the $3,000 that some people are selling it for. I am quite aware of the incredible resolution extracted from the sensor on the D30 and read the luminous landscape articles several months ago. I still however want a 5mp camera not a 3.3 mp ( a small niggle) from what I've read in the 1D review that Phil put out a few weeks ago, it seems as if Canon is abandoning both the CMOS sensor and the sub-pro price point ($2,000-$3,000) in favor of the far more lucrative pro market. A more important issue to me, is the fact that the technology is just not moving forward at the rate that it should be. I've been able to sit down and come up with many ideas on how multiple small sensors can be used to create large images with low noise, yet it seems all the manufacturers are employing single CCD designs, claiming multiple CCD cameras are too complicated and/or expensive to produce. However, this is electronics, and what is expensive today in electronics is dirt cheap in a year..except apparently in DC electronics which I find unacceptable. I can speak in this area as I am an electrical engineer by trade. I have been tempted to buy the D30 however and now that it can be had for near 2,000 I am even more tempted but I really would like a D30 in the 5mp resolution size.(just greedy I guess.. I want to make the purchase my last big camera purchase, and one to last me for years and provide me with detail for film like prints up to poster size. A 5mp D30 would do just that in my estimation.) It seems none of the camera manufacturers seem to think that this would be profitable for them to produce at an affordable price point. I think that next year will be the year of the affordable (5mp) DSLR, but I can't say which manufacturer will have the advantage of bringing us that product first.

Regards,

Dsl

Hi David,
It takes some time to assimilate and evaluate digital images
objectively. The art of seeing is a growing process and each
person has different perceptive criteria along the way. Here
are a few of my thoughts regarding your post.
The D30 has surpassed 35 mm up to 11 x 14 print size. Check
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/d30.htm
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/d30_vs_film.htm
Today a brand new D30 with 2 year waranty can be bought for $2200
or even less in the US, lucky Americans! Canon has extended the
offer of free 1 GB microdrive + extra battery till January 31. These
microdrives are selling for $400 meaning the D30 is really only $1800
new! Add $400 for a good starter lens) . The contrast between the D30
and the CP5000 makes the CP5000 look like an expensive $1100 gadget
and the D30 like a super bargain! Even with 8 megapixels, a CP8000
wouldn't match image quality of the D30's 3MP CMOS images at ANY
(yes ANY) print size. This says it all, but verify for yourself.
The D30 images
can be interpolated immensly with no artifact or aberration. Another
important consideration is the very subtle tonal range on the D30.
Many
people have purchased several P&S "disposable" digicams so far, nearly
totaling the cost of a pro SLR. I believe this process is wasteful
and is
being reconsidered by people such as yourself. After 8 months of
studying,
comparing, downloading and testing in PhotoShop, my search has ended.
I'm now looking for the best deal on a D30 in Canada. Good luck to
you.
AntoineB

--DSL

 

[Martin J. Lohne]

I haven't yet jumped on the digital bandwagon since the cost of a digital camera
that would make 16 X 20 prints that would equal the quality of my film cameras
is much too excessive. Then there is the cost of computer, archival printer and
software. When the price of a quality digital camera comes out of the strato-
sphere I'm ready to try it.