RAW or JPEG?

And you've quite obviously never found yourself in a challenging
situation where only shooting RAW is going to get your backside out
of the fire...

If for no other reason, here's why I only shoot RAW: highlight
preservation and recovery.

You simply cannot do a better job of saving highlights than in RAW.
While what you say is true, it is statements like this which feed the anti-RAW movement. The anti-raw person will read what you said, and say that the problem could have been avoided by exposing "correctly".

The more meaningful way of looking at this is that RAW is a better recording medium (like a better film) with more dynamic range. Rather than depending upon it to "save your backside" you can also intentionally use the extra DR, if you figure out where it is. Then, your shooting will be superior to JPEG in the following respects:

Your actual exposure index can be lower than the camera's stated ISO, for a higher RAW S:N ratio at all tonal levels, and usable shadows 1 to 3 stops deeper than if you shot highest quality JPEG, depending on the color of the highlights and WB, with both headroom and footroom in the RAW clipped or squished by the JPEG.

--
John

 
Since this is beginning for the OP, he needs to understand that it is important to have a workflow which includes a good storage and backup system. WIth the low prices for hard drives and flash memory cards today this is economical to accomplish.

It also means that the additional storage overhead is well worth the freedom that if you ALWAYS shoot Raw/jpg then you have the opportunity available in the future to get the best from your best shots. Some shots may not seem important at the time thery were made, but with the passage of time it becomes obvious that the subject is gone and only your image survives.

Bill
--

As with many things in life a great photograph has strong appeal for what is NOT in the picture.
 
As always in your posts... very, very well said, Jim. If I were the perfect photographer I aspire to be, I would never need RAW. I would always have dead on exposure, WB, and other settings. Alas, I still have just a few (I wish) imperfections in my skillset that I'm trying to work out. As a result, shooting in RAW has saved what would otherwise have been many a lost shot for me. Call it a crutch, call it whatever you want... if the goal of this hobby is to capture the best possible images, then RAW is a wonderful facilitator of that. Using it does nothing to discourage my seeking optimal exposure and settings from the outset. But it does provide a little buffer for those times when I get it wrong.

Jerry
 
As always in your posts... very, very well said, Jim. If I were the
perfect photographer I aspire to be, I would never need RAW.
I think you are still totally missing the point of RAW if you believe that. JPEG can NEVER approach the potential quality of RAW; they are two different films, of different qualities. The best exposure in RAW can be one that would be a disaster in JPEG.

--
John

 
True enough John - but I'm the first to admit that I'm not a good enough bird photographer to dial in perfect exposure every time on essentially white waders (shore birds) against dark sand when I might have less than a second from seeing the bird to taking the photograph before it takes flight.

But to be honest, I was just responding in kind to the sweeping statement in the previous post..!

;0)
 
As always in your posts... very, very well said, Jim. If I were the
perfect photographer I aspire to be, I would never need RAW.
I think you are still totally missing the point of RAW if you believe
that. JPEG can NEVER approach the potential quality of RAW; they
are two different films, of different qualities. The best exposure
in RAW can be one that would be a disaster in JPEG.
Sorry, but I believe that you are exaggerating the benefits of RAW a little. With RAW you might get a little more accurate RGB-values in the final image, but is it really that important wheather the values are 112/230/40 or 111/229/41?

I'm shooting JPEG only, with Neutral Picture Style and the settings 0,-3,-1,0. That's my "RAW" file, and after post processing I'm pretty sure that nobody can tell the difference between that and "real" RAW!
 
Why? Time, time, time!! I returned from 18 days in India with just short of 2000 images. I have a very full time job etc etc after 6 weeks I have just finished sorting these. I occasionally have to go into CS2 to obtain a sats result. If I took RAW only I simply wouldnt have the time.
You use what is best for you, given the circumstances of the time.

Steve G (Bus biter)
40d, 20d, 400L, 70-300DO, 24-70L, 50mm 1.8, Sigma 10-20mm, 1.4 teleconverter.
'Take nothing but photos and leave nothing but footprints'
http://www.pbase.com/croftcroyne
http://www.stevesphoto.org
 
I'm sure you can theoretically tweak more out of a RAW file than a JPEG but honestly, I don't have the time and would less inclined to take photos if I faced the additional aggravation of converting RAW files.

Now, I save all my original JPEGs and copy them to a print file which I PS to my heart's content.
 
I very much regret not shooting RAW on a vacation we took a few years ago. I was just starting out with a dSLR, and had a 1GB CF card. I have JPGS of my kids which I would very much like to imrove now, knowing what I know now.

I agree whole-heartedly with the others in the thread that recommend shooting both and saving the decent RAWs for later. That way you can have the control for post processing, and the added DR when you might want it.

--
My photos http://www.flickr.com/photos/13790942@N02/
 
Sure, but underexpose by a stop or perhaps miss your color balance a touch and then let's compare the end result. RAW buys you a little additional margin... and at times, that can be the difference between getting the shot or losing it.

Jerry
As always in your posts... very, very well said, Jim. If I were the
perfect photographer I aspire to be, I would never need RAW.
I think you are still totally missing the point of RAW if you believe
that. JPEG can NEVER approach the potential quality of RAW; they
are two different films, of different qualities. The best exposure
in RAW can be one that would be a disaster in JPEG.
Sorry, but I believe that you are exaggerating the benefits of RAW a
little. With RAW you might get a little more accurate RGB-values in
the final image, but is it really that important wheather the values
are 112/230/40 or 111/229/41?

I'm shooting JPEG only, with Neutral Picture Style and the settings
0,-3,-1,0. That's my "RAW" file, and after post processing I'm pretty
sure that nobody can tell the difference between that and "real" RAW!
 
That's what I did - I can use both interchangabily - that's a big plus - knowing when to use a 'Mountain Bike' and when to use a 'Road Bike' (to have a Bicycle analogy).

;-)

Steve H.
--
Glad to have digital cameras.... :-)
 
My post above was aimed at what was right for a new photographer since that was sort of the thrust of this thread. And to that end, I was talking mainly of the advantages of shooting RAW to make things easier. Which it certainly does by removing the burden of making your processing adjustments before or during shooting.

BUT, there are other benefits to RAW that extend beyond just making things easier, and these give reasons for even the "perfect" photographer to shoot RAW too.

John was alluding to those differences in his post.

I look at RAW as being similar to shooting print film, and I look at in-camera-JPG as being akin to shooting slide film.

With slide film or in-camera JPGs, you must expose to get a final product that looks exactly how you want it to look. In other words, if you're shooting a dark, dim scene, and want the final image to look dark and dim, you MUST expose low so that the final product is dark and dim. This is true with slides or JPG because you get no second chance to adjust things (properly - more on that later).

With print film or RAW, you can expose every scene "to the right" to maximize the dynamic range and minimize the noise in the capture. This is true because there is always one more step in the process where you can adjust the "brightness" of the image down to achieve a final output that is dark and gloomy if that's what you're after.

With print film, you make that adjustment when you expose your print. We never want to have a "thin" negative, even for what will be a dark print. We want a "perfect" negative and we just expose the print paper longer if we want a dark print.

With a digital RAW, you make that adjustment when you process the RAW file. We never want an underexposed capture, even for a dark final image. We want a "perfect" digital capture, and that means always having the brightest highlights of interest end up just shy of clipping. This maximizes the DR and minimizes the noise in the capture. If we want a darker final image, we simply adjust the "brightness" downwards when we make our RAW conversion. That pushes noise down. And we've maintained detail in the dark areas because they're not exposed so low that they're buried in noise or represented by too few quantizing "steps".

So RAW is better than even a linear bitmap like TIFF would be. And the JPG compression makes it even worse.

Since our only non-RAW choice in the camera is a JPG compressed version of the converted RAW, we lose even more when we do not use RAW. JPG compounds the problems of throwing away the RAW data.

JPG compression was designed to be used on FINISHED bitmaps to reduce file size. It works very well and the results look great... UNTIL we try to make adjustments to brightness, contrast, curves, saturation, etc. JPG was never intended for this. It was meant to be the FINAL version. And if you use it as such, then it's pretty good. (Again, think slide film here).

JPG compression involves using a non-linear compression of the dynamic range so that the full DR of the shot can be represented in an 8 bit format. When you make adjustments, you reveal the limitations of that compression. The result can be posterization and other bizarre color-shifts and distortions. Not good.

Also, JPG compression plays clever tricks to eliminate subtle shading details that it thinks won't be visible anyhow. Again, this works well until you start making adjustments at which point, you can reveal the limitations of the JPG compression.

And finally JPG throws away fine details that it, again, thinks won't be too visible, or will be masked. This means that for many images, the JPG version will simply lose a lot of very fine detail.

To me, if I want the best possible large prints or high quality work, I never consider using JPG compression until the very last step. Often, not even then for large prints. I stick with 16 bit TIFF format to the bitter end.

So even if you do own a crystal ball, and can predict, without fail, exactly what processing parameters you'll want for every shot before you even take the shot, you are still losing a lot of benefits by shooting in JPG-Only mode. I would never consider it unless there was some overriding benefit to it. And that means, I'd have to be very low on CF space OR be shooting a burst that actually required more than 17 shots!!!

--
Jim H.
 
As always in your posts... very, very well said, Jim. If I were the
perfect photographer I aspire to be, I would never need RAW.
I think you are still totally missing the point of RAW if you believe
that. JPEG can NEVER approach the potential quality of RAW; they
are two different films, of different qualities. The best exposure
in RAW can be one that would be a disaster in JPEG.
Sorry, but I believe that you are exaggerating the benefits of RAW a
little. With RAW you might get a little more accurate RGB-values in
the final image, but is it really that important wheather the values
are 112/230/40 or 111/229/41?
That's not what I'm talking about. JPG crushes the shadows, and stamps them with 8*8 pixel tiles of simple patterns; try bringing up the shadows, and you see the compression artifacts or a virtual black-out where most of the pixels are the same color, often with a strong color cast. On the highlight end, the JPEG literally throws away highlights that exist clearly in the RAW, as if they had never existed, and didn't have a right to exist. For something like a saturated red flower, the way the JPEG clips the red and loses detail can force someone to expose 3 or more stops darker than is really needed, adding noise or forcing wider apertures or slower shutter speeds than desired. WB affects clipping, too. In some types of WB, 3 or 4 stops of RAW highlights in the blue or red channel can be clipped away in the JPEG.

Whether you like it or not, JPEG-only is a "throw captured DR in the garbage" mode.
I'm shooting JPEG only, with Neutral Picture Style and the settings
0,-3,-1,0. That's my "RAW" file, and after post processing I'm pretty
sure that nobody can tell the difference between that and "real" RAW!
Nobody is claiming that a simple, default RAW conversion to JPEG on a computer would be better than the camera's best JPEG

I accept an individual's right to make informed or uninformed choices, but when you start giving reasons, they had better make sense and show an understanding. Most defensive JPEG-only people talking about RAW sound like a person telling all about a city, when all they did was change planes at its airport.

--
John

 

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