R6 II, R5 - Anybody use crop mode?

[Myer]

Cutious about how using crop mode on these cameras compares to using a TC or just plain cropping full-frame.

 

[Alastair Norcross]

Cutious about how using crop mode on these cameras compares to using a TC or just plain cropping full-frame.

I haven't used crop mode on my R6II (and didn't on my R), but this question comes up periodically, so I can tell you what the standard response is.

Crop mode compared with using a TC: for the 1.4X, you'll have a slightly narrower field of view with crop mode (subject will seem closer), because crop mode is 1.6, but not as narrow as with 2X teleconverter. Crop mode will give you far fewer pixels than using a TC. You get about 17.5MP on the R5, and about 9.5MP on the R6II with crop mode. If you use a good TC (like both the RF ones), optical quality will be better with TC (certainly with 1.4X).

Crop mode versus cropping in post: no difference in image quality. The main reason to use crop mode is for composition and AF, because your subject will fill more of the frame.

--
“When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather. Not screaming in terror, like the passengers in his car.” Jack Handey
Alastair
http://anorcross.smugmug.com
Equipment in profile

 

[boldcolors]

This thread got me bit curious so I set my R8 into crop mode just for the sake of it. I took some pictures and noticed that the cropped version is just a tad brighter than the original file. Same settings of course, fully manual and same light and target. I guess that the file is being processed by the camera and is not a 100% true RAW file then?

That said many brands do fiddle with the image before the RAW data is written to a file anyway so....

 

[Leigh A]

If resolution is of any concern, then Crop Mode does not add any more pixels over the subject than cropping in post, so the higher the camera's standard resolution, the higher the Crop Mode resolution. (20MP=7.7MP, 24MP=9.3MP, 45MP=17.3MP).

Obviously, a TC, same Camera, lens, distance, subject would up the resolution by increasing magnification similar to a "longer" telephoto lens, but overall image quality comparison would be dependent upon the performance quality of both the lens and the TC in use.

 

[EJ Fudd]

crop mode is just like croping image in photoshop. The only advantage I see is less of an area for AF. 1.4x and 2x are optical (better)

 

[Ephemeris]

This thread got me bit curious so I set my R8 into crop mode just for the sake of it. I took some pictures and noticed that the cropped version is just a tad brighter than the original file. Same settings of course, fully manual and same light and target. I guess that the file is being processed by the camera and is not a 100% true RAW file then?

That said many brands do fiddle with the image before the RAW data is written to a file anyway so....

Have you checked the difference in exposure?

If we expose for 40% of the frame rather than 100% it's likely a different answer. It's one of the reasons I use crop mode.

 

[Ephemeris]

Cutious about how using crop mode on these cameras compares to using a TC or just plain cropping full-frame.

I use it. I benefit from an enlarged frame in the viewfinder, ability to better point a focus area at the target.

I also benefit from metering of the new magnified field.

Due to this is isn't the same as post cropping because metering can be different.

I had also used to improve rolling shutter but I think we have proved that isn't the case. To improve rolling shutter I use some of the video modes which get to well below 10ms.

 

[Myer]

If resolution is of any concern, then Crop Mode does not add any more pixels over the subject than cropping in post, so the higher the camera's standard resolution, the higher the Crop Mode resolution. (20MP=7.7MP, 24MP=9.3MP, 45MP=17.3MP).

Obviously, a TC, same Camera, lens, distance, subject would up the resolution by increasing magnification similar to a "longer" telephoto lens, but overall image quality comparison would be dependent upon the performance quality of both the lens and the TC in use.

Doesn't Crop Mode also increase the length of the lens?

 

[Myer]

This thread got me bit curious so I set my R8 into crop mode just for the sake of it. I took some pictures and noticed that the cropped version is just a tad brighter than the original file. Same settings of course, fully manual and same light and target. I guess that the file is being processed by the camera and is not a 100% true RAW file then?

That said many brands do fiddle with the image before the RAW data is written to a file anyway so....

Have you checked the difference in exposure?

If we expose for 40% of the frame rather than 100% it's likely a different answer. It's one of the reasons I use crop mode.

I shoot a lot of action (90%) with my 7D II. I was wondering if you get the best of both worlds using crop mode with a R6 II or R5? Using full-frame for indoor, general photography, etc and Crop Mode for the daytime, outdoor action.

 

[Alastair Norcross]

This thread got me bit curious so I set my R8 into crop mode just for the sake of it. I took some pictures and noticed that the cropped version is just a tad brighter than the original file. Same settings of course, fully manual and same light and target. I guess that the file is being processed by the camera and is not a 100% true RAW file then?

That said many brands do fiddle with the image before the RAW data is written to a file anyway so....

Have you checked the difference in exposure?

If we expose for 40% of the frame rather than 100% it's likely a different answer. It's one of the reasons I use crop mode.

I shoot a lot of action (90%) with my 7D II. I was wondering if you get the best of both worlds using crop mode with a R6 II or R5? Using full-frame for indoor, general photography, etc and Crop Mode for the daytime, outdoor action.

That's close to correct with the R5. Crop mode images on the R5 are 17.3MP, which is pretty close to the 7DII's 20MP. But crop mode on the R6II will only give you 9.3MP. Depending on what you want to do with the pictures, that could still be plenty. I shot quite a lot of sports with my 20D, which was only 8MP, and was quite happy with it.

 

[Ephemeris]

This thread got me bit curious so I set my R8 into crop mode just for the sake of it. I took some pictures and noticed that the cropped version is just a tad brighter than the original file. Same settings of course, fully manual and same light and target. I guess that the file is being processed by the camera and is not a 100% true RAW file then?

That said many brands do fiddle with the image before the RAW data is written to a file anyway so....

Have you checked the difference in exposure?

If we expose for 40% of the frame rather than 100% it's likely a different answer. It's one of the reasons I use crop mode.

I shoot a lot of action (90%) with my 7D II. I was wondering if you get the best of both worlds using crop mode with a R6 II or R5? Using full-frame for indoor, general photography, etc and Crop Mode for the daytime, outdoor action.

With the R5 you save a 17.3Mp image. So is that adequate for your use?

Some people have hypothesized that it could improve AF but the AF areas of the sensor wouldn't change. I personally haven't managed to prove either way.

Where I'm likely to crop that much anyway I think it's a helpful tool to have and helps me see my target more easily.

For the R7 user's I think they would say this isn't a replacement for what there camera can achieve.

If the r5ii is say 60MP that gives 37.5 in crop.

 

[Ephemeris]

If resolution is of any concern, then Crop Mode does not add any more pixels over the subject than cropping in post, so the higher the camera's standard resolution, the higher the Crop Mode resolution. (20MP=7.7MP, 24MP=9.3MP, 45MP=17.3MP).

Obviously, a TC, same Camera, lens, distance, subject would up the resolution by increasing magnification similar to a "longer" telephoto lens, but overall image quality comparison would be dependent upon the performance quality of both the lens and the TC in use.

Doesn't Crop Mode also increase the length of the lens?

If you think about the angles of light between sensor and target we can see if you take a crop of the centre area of the sensor those angles reduce. It's this that people are referring to when they say the lens becomes a longer focal length (the lens doesn't change)

 

[M4Mobility]

If the r5ii is say 60MP that gives 37.5 in crop.

60MP gives 23.4MP in crop.

--
- M
“I ain't afraid of no noise.”

 

[Ephemeris]

If the r5ii is say 60MP that gives 37.5 in crop.

60MP gives 23.4MP in crop.

Sorry missed a division.

37.5/1.6.

--
- M
“I ain't afraid of no noise.”

 

[Leigh A]

If resolution is of any concern, then Crop Mode does not add any more pixels over the subject than cropping in post, so the higher the camera's standard resolution, the higher the Crop Mode resolution. (20MP=7.7MP, 24MP=9.3MP, 45MP=17.3MP).

Obviously, a TC, same Camera, lens, distance, subject would up the resolution by increasing magnification similar to a "longer" telephoto lens, but overall image quality comparison would be dependent upon the performance quality of both the lens and the TC in use.

Doesn't Crop Mode also increase the length of the lens?

A lens perspective will increase by 1.6 when on a Crop/APS-C camera body, as opposed to a FF body, but not in Crop Mode, which only reduces the sensor capture area, so the Lens, so called "reach" remains the same.

 

[Ephemeris]

If resolution is of any concern, then Crop Mode does not add any more pixels over the subject than cropping in post, so the higher the camera's standard resolution, the higher the Crop Mode resolution. (20MP=7.7MP, 24MP=9.3MP, 45MP=17.3MP).

Obviously, a TC, same Camera, lens, distance, subject would up the resolution by increasing magnification similar to a "longer" telephoto lens, but overall image quality comparison would be dependent upon the performance quality of both the lens and the TC in use.

Doesn't Crop Mode also increase the length of the lens?

A lens perspective will increase by 1.6 when on a Crop/APS-C camera body, as opposed to a FF body, but not in Crop Mode, which only reduces the sensor capture area, so the Lens, so called "reach" remains the same.

APSC / 1.6x crop are on and the same thing surely. Same angles.

 

[Larry Rexley]

I use crop mode frequently, for video, not for stills.

I have the R8 and R7, the excellent versatile RF-S 18-150 and the tiny RF-S 10-18, as well as the larger RF 24-105 f4.-7.1, RF 24mm f1.8 macro, and more compact 50mm f1.8. I also do night shooting and often use a crop-sensor format RF-mount Venus Laowa 33mm f0.95 lens (perhaps the sharpest f0.95 lens available) and the Laowa 15mm f2 'Dreamer' lens.

I do a lot of train photography, almost always from bicycle rides, so my kit needs to be small and light, typically one body and 3 lenses. During these winter months with early sunsets I always take the R8, and for night shooting the Laowa 33mm f0.95 lens is spectacular for night work, even in crop mode on the R8. (See image below at ISO 25,000).

Using crop lenses for video results in slightly less sharp video than shooting with a full-frame lens, but it's still very good video. Using the RF-S 18-150 on the R8 is a much smaller and lighter package than the RF 24-240mm super-zoom would be, with a relatively similar range.

Also, being able to use each lens either for full-frame or crop mode for video in effect doubles the number of lenses you have in your bag. The 24mm f1.8 can act as an ultrawide in full-frame mode on the R8, or a more standard 38mm lens in crop video mode.

The sharp and inexpensive EF-S 55-250 on the R7 can act like a 400mm lens in crop video mode on the R7, giving you a FF reach of 640mm!


R643, a monster CSX ethanol train heading to the Port in Tampa, Florida with KCSM power. Canon R8, Venus Laowa 33mm f0.95 lens in crop video mode, f0.95, ISO 25,000, 1/200s to freeze the train. Frame taken from 4k video, processed in DxO Photolab 6

 

[drsnoopy]

This thread got me bit curious so I set my R8 into crop mode just for the sake of it. I took some pictures and noticed that the cropped version is just a tad brighter than the original file. Same settings of course, fully manual and same light and target. I guess that the file is being processed by the camera and is not a 100% true RAW file then?

That said many brands do fiddle with the image before the RAW data is written to a file anyway so....

Have you checked the difference in exposure?

If we expose for 40% of the frame rather than 100% it's likely a different answer. It's one of the reasons I use crop mode.

I shoot a lot of action (90%) with my 7D II. I was wondering if you get the best of both worlds using crop mode with a R6 II or R5? Using full-frame for indoor, general photography, etc and Crop Mode for the daytime, outdoor action.

With the R5 you save a 17.3Mp image. So is that adequate for your use?

Some people have hypothesized that it could improve AF but the AF areas of the sensor wouldn't change. I personally haven't managed to prove either way.

Where I'm likely to crop that much anyway I think it's a helpful tool to have and helps me see my target more easily.

For the R7 user's I think they would say this isn't a replacement for what there camera can achieve.

If the r5ii is say 60MP that gives 37.5 in crop.

No, a 60 MP full frame sensor if used in 1.6x crop mode would give a 23.4 MP image. To get the new image size in MP you divide by 2.56 (this is 1.6 squared).

 

[Ephemeris]

This thread got me bit curious so I set my R8 into crop mode just for the sake of it. I took some pictures and noticed that the cropped version is just a tad brighter than the original file. Same settings of course, fully manual and same light and target. I guess that the file is being processed by the camera and is not a 100% true RAW file then?

That said many brands do fiddle with the image before the RAW data is written to a file anyway so....

Have you checked the difference in exposure?

If we expose for 40% of the frame rather than 100% it's likely a different answer. It's one of the reasons I use crop mode.

I shoot a lot of action (90%) with my 7D II. I was wondering if you get the best of both worlds using crop mode with a R6 II or R5? Using full-frame for indoor, general photography, etc and Crop Mode for the daytime, outdoor action.

With the R5 you save a 17.3Mp image. So is that adequate for your use?

Some people have hypothesized that it could improve AF but the AF areas of the sensor wouldn't change. I personally haven't managed to prove either way.

Where I'm likely to crop that much anyway I think it's a helpful tool to have and helps me see my target more easily.

For the R7 user's I think they would say this isn't a replacement for what there camera can achieve.

If the r5ii is say 60MP that gives 37.5 in crop.

No, a 60 MP full frame sensor if used in 1.6x crop mode would give a 23.4 MP image. To get the new image size in MP you divide by 2.56 (this is 1.6 squared).

This has already been discussed. Please see the replys. Merely a typo.

 

[drsnoopy]

Nobody has pointed out the 1.6x crop mode does actually crop the RAW image. This is different to the other “format” modes, which still leave the whole full frame RAW image available.

I find crop mode useful when out and about with one lens, giving me an “equivalent” focal length that is longer. For example with a 24-105 on my R5, I get an equivalent of 168mm, quite useful. And the resulting 17.3 MP image is still very usable for almost any purpose. If you shot on full frame with the intention of cropping later, you might not remember your intended composition when reviewing. And not all lenses are suitable for teleconverters. For example the RF 70-200 L lenses - equivalent to 320mm in crop mode, very useful.

But - ”only 17.3 MP ??? !!!” - I hear the cry. Well I’ve just been to the Wildlife Photographer of the Year exhibition in London - several of the images there were shot on 18-20MP (Canon 7D and 1DX3 and other bodies both crop and full frame) and some on just 12MP (drones). And these were displayed on back-lit panels 3 ft x 2 ft, all beautifully sharp and detailed. So yes, 17.3 is often “enough”.