question about focus stacking and macro

[sirhawkeye64]

Just wondering, and this may depend on how people like to shoot. Assuming you have an AF macro lens, when focus stacking, do you like to manually focus so different parts of the subject are in focus or do you rely on AF for that? I know some cameras have focus stacking-type functions (like for Nikon Z, they have the focus-shift shooting which basically seems to do a similar task of focusing at various points within the frame and taking several shots so you can merge them together into a focus stacked image.

I'm just wondering, as I'm sort of looking around casually at macro lenses, and know that there are some good manual ones out there, but also the Z 105 macro which everyone seems to like. But I figured that focus stacking is something I might be doing quite a bit if I get more into macro.

Side note: I would mostly be doing flowers, as I don't see myself photographing insects or bugs, so we'll say 'stationary subjects" for the most part.

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[Crispy_Bee]

If and when possible AF-bracketing is always preferable to MF-bracketing as it's more precise and faster and the step length is consistent.

However Nikon is particularly 'bad' in that regard because the focus-bracketing feature is hidden in the menu and even has to be started from the menu - so you have to fiddle around and touch the camera, meaning you potentially introduce vibrations and (even worse) you don't see your subject when you start the focus bracketing process.

In Sony cameras it's a regular shooting mode so you don't have to fiddle around with menus to start it and you can even use a remote or computer to trigger the bracketing, making the whole thing much more 'enjoyable' and easier and quicker.

 

[sirhawkeye64]

If and when possible AF-bracketing is always preferable to MF-bracketing as it's more precise and faster and the step length is consistent.

However Nikon is particularly 'bad' in that regard because the focus-bracketing feature is hidden in the menu and even has to be started from the menu - so you have to fiddle around and touch the camera, meaning you potentially introduce vibrations and (even worse) you don't see your subject when you start the focus bracketing process.

In Sony cameras it's a regular shooting mode so you don't have to fiddle around with menus to start it and you can even use a remote or computer to trigger the bracketing, making the whole thing much more 'enjoyable' and easier and quicker.

The fact Nikon puts it in the menu and you have to deal with that is not the biggest concern, but more so that the setup and how it actually goes about doing the bracket is not straightforward or have a good explanation of how the camera figures out (for example) the step-width I think they call it, which is the distance the focus point moves between each shot. Presumably it moves through the whole frame and is divided up based on the number of shots you tell it to take...? I need to look into it more but I guess it does make sense that auto focus bracketing is probably the best approach and why it's now being included in cameras. I could see where someone manually focusing might make a mistake or move the focus too far and have a gap.

 

[Crispy_Bee]

If and when possible AF-bracketing is always preferable to MF-bracketing as it's more precise and faster and the step length is consistent.

However Nikon is particularly 'bad' in that regard because the focus-bracketing feature is hidden in the menu and even has to be started from the menu - so you have to fiddle around and touch the camera, meaning you potentially introduce vibrations and (even worse) you don't see your subject when you start the focus bracketing process.

In Sony cameras it's a regular shooting mode so you don't have to fiddle around with menus to start it and you can even use a remote or computer to trigger the bracketing, making the whole thing much more 'enjoyable' and easier and quicker.

The fact Nikon puts it in the menu and you have to deal with that is not the biggest concern, but more so that the setup and how it actually goes about doing the bracket is not straightforward or have a good explanation of how the camera figures out (for example) the step-width I think they call it, which is the distance the focus point moves between each shot. Presumably it moves through the whole frame and is divided up based on the number of shots you tell it to take...? I need to look into it more but I guess it does make sense that auto focus bracketing is probably the best approach and why it's now being included in cameras. I could see where someone manually focusing might make a mistake or move the focus too far and have a gap.

It's not just leaving a gap but taking "too" many images can also mess up the stacking software algorithm, leading to weird fringing effects, increased halos and other artifacts.

Besides it produces a lot of vibrations when you have to touch the camera or rail - hands off is definitely preferable

As for the menu - if you can live with it, it's ok.
Personally I really hate it, especially after using Sony with AF bracketing, which is much more pleasant and intuitive. The fact that you can't keep your subjects in view is annoying for insects but having to touch the camera and introducing vibrations is problematic even for static objects in a studio environment.

 

[Lester Lefkowitz]

Since you have Nikon gear, telling you how wonderful in-camera automatic focus bracketing is for other brands will not solve your problem.

For sure, the implementation of that function via Nikon is not too smart. Having to start the series - not while looking through the viewfinder - but by diving into the menu and pressing buttons on the camera leaves a lot to be desired. However, since your subject is mostly flowers, keeping an eye on the subject is probably not a big deal (although I do often keep my eye glued to the viewfinder watching for the precise moment when the wind stops completely).

Here's a possible work-around if there's concern that touching the camera will cause vibration:

Assuming you don't have gorilla-like hands and a violent approach to pushing buttons, a slight vibration usually dampens down very quickly. So we want to build in a few extra seconds at the beginning of an automatic focus-bracket sequence with frames that don't matter. First, set the delay between frames to 1 second. Then also focus significantly closer to the camera so that the starting point is not on the flower. The 5-10 seconds that it takes to get the the first in-focus frame should provide sufficient time for any vibration to dissipate.

Yes, that Nikon 105-Z macro lens is a beauty (I own one), and an autofocus lens is required for automatic focus bracketing. However, there are other ways to focus bracket that do not require an autofocus lens, nor the use of in-camera automatic focus bracketing.

#1) Manually turn the focusing ring in very small increments with a tripod-mounted camera. Requires a sturdy tripod, a gentle touch on the focusing ring, and waiting a few second before pressing the shutter (with a remote cord). How much to turn the ring depends of the magnification, the aperture (depth-of-field considerations), and the subtlety or lack thereof of the focus-throw for a particular lens. It takes some getting used to, but it's a technique I've used for years before the advent of in-camera bracketing. And if in doubt, small increments are always better.

#2) Use a focusing slide on a tripod. It's easy to make uniform steps by turning the slide's knob in consistent amounts. But, again, wait a few seconds after touching the slide.

#3) Handhold, put the lens in manual focus mode, set the camera to burst mode, and glide in toward the subject. This requires sufficient ambient light for a decent shutter speed (say, 1/250 sec) or flash.

Lester Lefkowitz, author of The Manual of Close-Up and Macro Photography, Volumes I & II

www.MacroPhotographer. net

 

[Crispy_Bee]

However, since your subject is mostly flowers, keeping an eye on the subject is probably not a big deal (although I do often keep my eye glued to the viewfinder watching for the precise moment when the wind stops completely).

That's exactly what I do and why I dislike the Nikon approach. Even very small movements caused by a slight breeze will ruin a focus bracketing sequence and without being able to see the subject you'll never know whether "now" it the right time to start.

It's far easier to judge with Sony (or perhaps Canon I imagine) and even stopping and resuming the sequence without touching the camera.

It's probably not too helpful for OP to know Nikon is bad at this job but perhaps for others who are considering investing in Nikon for such images.

 

[Lester Lefkowitz]

However, since your subject is mostly flowers, keeping an eye on the subject is probably not a big deal (although I do often keep my eye glued to the viewfinder watching for the precise moment when the wind stops completely).

That's exactly what I do and why I dislike the Nikon approach. Even very small movements caused by a slight breeze will ruin a focus bracketing sequence and without being able to see the subject you'll never know whether "now" it the right time to start.

It's far easier to judge with Sony (or perhaps Canon I imagine) and even stopping and resuming the sequence without touching the camera.

It's probably not too helpful for OP to know Nikon is bad at this job but perhaps for others who are considering investing in Nikon for such images.

I can't speak for Sony or Canon, but Fuji has an excellent implementation of in-camera focus bracketing. You can set the near point and the far point, then the camera automatically determines the step size base on the aperture and magnification; a delay between steps can also be set from 0 to 10 sec. And no need to take your eye off the viewfinder. Brilliant!

Lester Lefkowitz

 

[sirhawkeye64]

However, since your subject is mostly flowers, keeping an eye on the subject is probably not a big deal (although I do often keep my eye glued to the viewfinder watching for the precise moment when the wind stops completely).

That's exactly what I do and why I dislike the Nikon approach. Even very small movements caused by a slight breeze will ruin a focus bracketing sequence and without being able to see the subject you'll never know whether "now" it the right time to start.

It's far easier to judge with Sony (or perhaps Canon I imagine) and even stopping and resuming the sequence without touching the camera.

It's probably not too helpful for OP to know Nikon is bad at this job but perhaps for others who are considering investing in Nikon for such images.

I can't speak for Sony or Canon, but Fuji has an excellent implementation of in-camera focus bracketing. You can set the near point and the far point, then the camera automatically determines the step size base on the aperture and magnification; a delay between steps can also be set from 0 to 10 sec. And no need to take your eye off the viewfinder. Brilliant!

Lester Lefkowitz

I wish Nikon at least did it that way, as there are sometimes things in the frame that I don't care about (like the background) which could be ignored, but the Nikon seems to do the entire frame.

 

[Crispy_Bee]

However, since your subject is mostly flowers, keeping an eye on the subject is probably not a big deal (although I do often keep my eye glued to the viewfinder watching for the precise moment when the wind stops completely).

That's exactly what I do and why I dislike the Nikon approach. Even very small movements caused by a slight breeze will ruin a focus bracketing sequence and without being able to see the subject you'll never know whether "now" it the right time to start.

It's far easier to judge with Sony (or perhaps Canon I imagine) and even stopping and resuming the sequence without touching the camera.

It's probably not too helpful for OP to know Nikon is bad at this job but perhaps for others who are considering investing in Nikon for such images.

I can't speak for Sony or Canon, but Fuji has an excellent implementation of in-camera focus bracketing. You can set the near point and the far point, then the camera automatically determines the step size base on the aperture and magnification; a delay between steps can also be set from 0 to 10 sec. And no need to take your eye off the viewfinder. Brilliant!

Lester Lefkowitz

Hmm sort of. I found it OK for the GFX system but honestly after having used the Sony I much prefer that approach. It's rare enough to have insects remain stationary for a long time and it's easier to simply quickly set the start point and "Go!" than having to select the start and end.
If - for example - the subject isn't fully covered I simply trigger the bracketing sequence again until I get everything I need in focus. And if - for example - the beetle moved I can simply stop the bracketing sequence, reset the focus point (it's almost guaranteed not to be the same as before) and give it another go.

With enough practice even automated hand-held stacks are possible that way though a tripod is always the way to go.

 

[Lester Lefkowitz]

However, since your subject is mostly flowers, keeping an eye on the subject is probably not a big deal (although I do often keep my eye glued to the viewfinder watching for the precise moment when the wind stops completely).

That's exactly what I do and why I dislike the Nikon approach. Even very small movements caused by a slight breeze will ruin a focus bracketing sequence and without being able to see the subject you'll never know whether "now" it the right time to start.

It's far easier to judge with Sony (or perhaps Canon I imagine) and even stopping and resuming the sequence without touching the camera.

It's probably not too helpful for OP to know Nikon is bad at this job but perhaps for others who are considering investing in Nikon for such images.

I can't speak for Sony or Canon, but Fuji has an excellent implementation of in-camera focus bracketing. You can set the near point and the far point, then the camera automatically determines the step size base on the aperture and magnification; a delay between steps can also be set from 0 to 10 sec. And no need to take your eye off the viewfinder. Brilliant!

Lester Lefkowitz

Hmm sort of. I found it OK for the GFX system but honestly after having used the Sony I much prefer that approach. It's rare enough to have insects remain stationary for a long time and it's easier to simply quickly set the start point and "Go!" than having to select the start and end.
If - for example - the subject isn't fully covered I simply trigger the bracketing sequence again until I get everything I need in focus. And if - for example - the beetle moved I can simply stop the bracketing sequence, reset the focus point (it's almost guaranteed not to be the same as before) and give it another go.
With enough practice even automated hand-held stacks are possible that way though a tripod is always the way to go.

Addendum to the Fuji system. There are TWO ways do do automatic focus bracketing. Type #1 is as I described, with selection of start and end points. But Fuji also has the same system as Sony, where you set the basic parameters in the menu (number of frames, any delay between frames, and "quality" of steps), then just focus on the near point and let 'er rip.

Lester Lefkowitz

 

[BSiler]

. . . meaning you potentially introduce vibrations and (even worse) you don't see your subject when you start the focus bracketing process.

I use Nikon focus-shift shooting a lot. So I'm accustomed to its menu-based implementation, and it doesn't bother me. But I understand that plenty of others don't like it.

I would gently disagree that it "potentially introduce(s) vibrations." There is about a 4 second delay between starting the focus-shift shooting and the first shot, so any movement caused by a touch-screen "start" command is long dissipated.

And I can't say it bothers me that I don't see the subject just before the shooting starts. My focus stacking is always from a tripod and only for scenes with no motion in them. Sure, wind may introduce motion mid-sequence, but seeing the frame just before the first exposure doesn't solve that problem. I set up the shot I want, place the initial focal point where I want it, start the capture sequence, and hope the wind stays calm.

As I say, Nikon's focus-shift shooting gets its share of criticism. But if that's the automated focus stacking feature available to you, you may very well have great success and minimal frustration.

 

[BSiler]

Putting the focus-shift shooting feature in the "I" menu makes for pretty quick to access.