PS and ICC Profile questions.

[Voo]

Why do you have to 'put your two cents in'.. but it's only a 'penny
for your thoughts'?

Where's that extra penny going to?

TAX !

-------
voo

 

[alfredky]

Just a quick reply, this subject is far to complex to discuss this here in detail, you might want to read some articles on color management. Yes you are missing a lot of colors if you use sRGB as your working space however, the colors you are missing can not be displayed an most monitors and will not be printed by printers like MPIX which use strictly sRGB as the input and any image with a profile other then sRGB will be converted to sRGB. So the colors you are missing...well you really don't need them unless you start sending your images to a top magazine which does high quality high gloss pages. And if you edit in aRGB you will never have the image correct if you put it on the net unless you convert it to sRGB first. So do you get my drift? You have to ask yourself first "Self" you ask "Where are my images going to be used?" and then you decide what color space to use.
--
Alfred

 

[MTT]

Just a quick reply, this subject is far to complex to discuss this
here in detail, you might want to read some articles on color
management.

I agree, and that might be a wise thing to do.. But I really wasn't to concern about it until I notice this problem. I tell you, film days were a little simpler!!!

Yes you are missing a lot of colors if you use sRGB as
your working space however, the colors you are missing can not be
displayed an most monitors and will not be printed by printers like
MPIX which use strictly sRGB as the input and any image with a
profile other then sRGB will be converted to sRGB.

That sounds like there is no reason to PP an image as aRGB due to not seeing a noticable difference. And when I send a aRGB image to PS, I might as well convert it to sRGB. But you said most monitors, so if I had a montior [I'm assuming high dollar] then I can benifit form PP in aRGB.

If MPIX print strickly sRGB, when do they "not" want me to check the ICC Profile box as sRGB?

So the colors
you are missing...well you really don't need them unless you start
sending your images to a top magazine which does high quality high
gloss pages. And if you edit in aRGB you will never have the image
correct if you put it on the net unless you convert it to sRGB
first. So do you get my drift?

I get it and I know a little about what happens when I don't convert from aRGB to sRGB for net viewing. If I don't convert, the image will look flat.

You have to ask yourself first
"Self" you ask "Where are my images going to be used?" and then you
decide what color space to use.

As of now, my images are being used for web viewing and printed on a church monthly new letter & brochures. But these are high quialty news letters. sRGB seems to work fine for those.

Thanks Alfred for your input,

Mark

--
Alfred

--



Church Event Photographer

Full time auto tech, part time photographer. Mark Thompson/MTT
Louisville, KY. USA

Why do you have to 'put your two cents in'.. but it's only a 'penny for your thoughts'? Where's that extra penny going to?

http://mtt.smugmug.com/

 

[MTT]

Why do you have to 'put your two cents in'.. but it's only a 'penny
for your thoughts'?

Where's that extra penny going to?

TAX !

Someone else made the comment, "have you checked the exchange rate recently? GBP 0.01 == USD 0.02". Both are good reasons!!!

Mark

-------
voo

--



Church Event Photographer

Full time auto tech, part time photographer. Mark Thompson/MTT
Louisville, KY. USA

Why do you have to 'put your two cents in'.. but it's only a 'penny for your thoughts'? Where's that extra penny going to?

http://mtt.smugmug.com/

 

[MTT]

Just a quick reply, this subject is far to complex to discuss this
here in detail, you might want to read some articles on color
management.

http://www.gballard.net/psd/assignconvert.html

Mark

 

[raphaeldinge]

Now you are getting really deep here, still need to take the time
and study this. Thanks for the explinations on all this, you been a
big help.

Well as stated alfredy, I've been probably to much deep indeed. Not only that I don't have an absolute knowledge on color management (I'm still learning of course, and I've got a lot to learn on this delicate topic), but some of the discussion was oriented to print on top top printer and the like, which of course might not be what you need. Sorry for this.

However if one time you want to make an expo of your photo and print on a top printer/paper, this might be of good help.

If I decide to PP my images as aRGB in PS, should I change PS
working space to aRGB? Seems like I would half to if I wnat to PP
aRGB images.

Like alfredky said, this is much related to what you're going to print to.

I've checked on MPIX web site, and there are taking only sRGB for their printer. They seems to make an important place for color management, since they communicate on this at the first level of their website.

However I guess that they are using Frontier/Lambda to issue all paper prints, so this sRGB limitation is a little weird. From what they say in their FAQ page, they seems to check calibration on a regular basis (as all labs), so they must have each printer profiles somewhere. What is weird is that they don't give them. I think that probably they want to have the less problem, given that almost everybody must be editing in sRGB (without knowing it maybe), and they had less return. Also this means that every sRGB image with unchecked ICC box will be assigned the sRGB profile, which does not change the picture look in the end.

Raphael

 

[raphaeldinge]

I emailed MPIX and they told me I should leave it unchecked. Never
gave me a reason why. But I never did ask. All I know is, I get
great results leaving the ICC box unchecked. Wonder how different
the results would be if I sent them a aRGB instead with the ICC box
unchecked?

It will look flat in fact. You can verify this by taking your aRGB picture and assign (not convert) the sRGB profile.

This is because one color encoded in aRGB has value in RGB that are more towards gray than sRGB, because the aRGB gamut is wider than the sRGB gamut.

Raphael

 

[MTT]

I emailed MPIX and they told me I should leave it unchecked. Never
gave me a reason why. But I never did ask. All I know is, I get
great results leaving the ICC box unchecked. Wonder how different
the results would be if I sent them a aRGB instead with the ICC box
unchecked?

It will look flat in fact. You can verify this by taking your aRGB
picture and assign (not convert) the sRGB profile.

There's a difference between assign & convert? So much to learn! I printed a aRGB with my HP photoprinter, which is set up for sRGB, and my image was flat.

This is because one color encoded in aRGB has value in RGB that are
more towards gray than sRGB, because the aRGB gamut is wider than
the sRGB gamut.

I think that make sense. Not to good on this color stuff, but working on it. So, if I convert aRGB to sRGB when saving, then my image will not look flat?

Mark

Raphael

--



Church Event Photographer

Full time auto tech, part time photographer. Mark Thompson/MTT
Louisville, KY. USA

Why do you have to 'put your two cents in'.. but it's only a 'penny for your thoughts'? Where's that extra penny going to?

http://mtt.smugmug.com/

 

[MTT]

Now you are getting really deep here, still need to take the time
and study this. Thanks for the explinations on all this, you been a
big help.

Well as stated alfredy, I've been probably to much deep indeed. Not
only that I don't have an absolute knowledge on color management
(I'm still learning of course, and I've got a lot to learn on this
delicate topic), but some of the discussion was oriented to print
on top top printer and the like, which of course might not be what
you need. Sorry for this.

No need to say sorry, I will eventually need to know all this. I’m just glad you took the time to explain all this to me.

However if one time you want to make an expo of your photo and
print on a top printer/paper, this might be of good help.

I think so!

If I decide to PP my images as aRGB in PS, should I change PS
working space to aRGB? Seems like I would half to if I wnat to PP
aRGB images.

Like alfredky said, this is much related to what you're going to
print to.
I've checked on MPIX web site, and there are taking only sRGB for
their printer. They seems to make an important place for color
management, since they communicate on this at the first level of
their website.

Thanks for checking I should have done this myself. But until recently I really didn't have a need to. What I had printed turned out pretty close to what I see on my montior, except for being a little to dark.

However I guess that they are using Frontier/Lambda to issue all
paper prints, so this sRGB limitation is a little weird. From what
they say in their FAQ page, they seems to check calibration on a
regular basis (as all labs), so they must have each printer
profiles somewhere. What is weird is that they don't give them. I
think that probably they want to have the less problem, given that
almost everybody must be editing in sRGB (without knowing it
maybe), and they had less return. Also this means that every sRGB
image with unchecked ICC box will be assigned the sRGB profile,
which does not change the picture look in the end.

Not sure, you seem to know way more about this then I do. So assigning the image to sRGB profile does not make the image a sRGB? Maybe answering the question below will clear things up.

If this question have been addressed already in this thread, point me to it. I will go back and re-read everything. What is the difference between converting to sRGB, assigning to sRGB and saving the image with the ICC Profile box checked as sRGB?

Thanks,

Mark

Raphael

--



Church Event Photographer

Full time auto tech, part time photographer. Mark Thompson/MTT
Louisville, KY. USA

Why do you have to 'put your two cents in'.. but it's only a 'penny for your thoughts'? Where's that extra penny going to?

http://mtt.smugmug.com/