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"pros" ummm
- Thread starter wmcdowell
- Start date
Hopefully you can show us the way with your stainless steel lab equipment shots.
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1014&message=1936209
You know...trying to pi$$ people off on one forum and begging info from others on another is CREATIVE, useless, but creative.
Ron
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1014&message=1936209
You know...trying to pi$$ people off on one forum and begging info from others on another is CREATIVE, useless, but creative.
Ron
--Ron Gee
Temple
Well-known member
Interesting correlation Ron .. I thought the same thing. "Iva Toothache" comes to mind.
--Temple http://www.austinphoto.com
Solomon
Senior Member
I was lurking through that thread. I am an art director that will eventually buy a Nikon D-something, (I just can't justify it today, at their current price range). It was an interesting post by a well-intentioned kid that seemed to bring out the best and the worst in you guys.
I say well intentioned because I feel that it takes a few years in photography for people to "get" what being a professional photographer is about. It's not exactly like being a tennis pro or a golf pro. It's tough work, and nobody makes a living at it very long unless they are good.
It's further complicated by the fact that being "good" for most professionals isn't centered on being creative, it would be a hell of a lot easier if it was. But, being good for professionals usually means delivering more than what is expected of them, consistently, to the people who are footing the bill. I've stood right beside you, I've watched you do it, and no one who has done that could walk away with anything less than a tremendous amount of respect for what you do.
My guess is that this kid just doesn't understand what professional photography is yet. He just "pooped" in, to say hello.
-EL
I say well intentioned because I feel that it takes a few years in photography for people to "get" what being a professional photographer is about. It's not exactly like being a tennis pro or a golf pro. It's tough work, and nobody makes a living at it very long unless they are good.
It's further complicated by the fact that being "good" for most professionals isn't centered on being creative, it would be a hell of a lot easier if it was. But, being good for professionals usually means delivering more than what is expected of them, consistently, to the people who are footing the bill. I've stood right beside you, I've watched you do it, and no one who has done that could walk away with anything less than a tremendous amount of respect for what you do.
My guess is that this kid just doesn't understand what professional photography is yet. He just "pooped" in, to say hello.
-EL
C
Carol Steele
Guest
I'm sorry Wayne, but if I offered my clients something like this I'd starve to death. However, there are folk out there who will buy images such as the ones you show - just not enough of them to pay the bills.
When I was an amateur, I experimented with a lot of stuff and had many acceptances from various International Salons of Photography and it was fun doing the stuff and very educational. Don't get me wrong, I'm not putting amateurs down, in fact I find that a lot of amateurs can afford to be far more 'arty' in the creative sense than professionals - especially in my own particular filed of social photography - as they don't need to generate an income from their hobby.
Being professional means a whole lot more than being creative.
Good luck if you do decide to become a professional
--
Carol
--Carol
When I was an amateur, I experimented with a lot of stuff and had many acceptances from various International Salons of Photography and it was fun doing the stuff and very educational. Don't get me wrong, I'm not putting amateurs down, in fact I find that a lot of amateurs can afford to be far more 'arty' in the creative sense than professionals - especially in my own particular filed of social photography - as they don't need to generate an income from their hobby.
Being professional means a whole lot more than being creative.
Good luck if you do decide to become a professional
--
Carol
--Carol
I took this word at face value and thought it was a skit - or other.
Funny at any rate not too serious - Merry Christmas.
Like this link but commercially limited as stated.
Some sort of Hitchcock influence here. It reminds me of a recent posting where the client was not at all pleased with the photographs from her guesthouse that a “creative” photographer sweated over for days. All the client wanted was very ordinary but high quality “snap” of her home in good weather showing a nice blue sky and full view rooms (wide-angle).
All the pro has to supply here is the technique to get a bit of light into the shadows and choose an angle that was flattering, the photographer in this case choose a low angle upward looking shot of the entry steps – made the place look very foreboding.
The photographer was upset and the client was upset. Now given that the photography was in fact excellent – what was wrong here?
D
Dick-
Guest
Damn..I promised myself I would not repsond...this clown is a troll...the attitude and the syntax.(or lack of it).. clearly shows. he really is a Pooper!
--****
John Bagdovitz
Well-known member
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You just made my day...well almost seeing that it is Christmas.
Yes, wedding photography can be tough but I wouldn't trade places with any photographer, I love it! Stress? Yes! Fun? Yes! Profitable?...Sometimes.
Merry Christmas to all,
John
Frank Benvenuto
Leading Member
I have to hand it to you. Your work is very interesting. It certainly shows that you are using your head as well as the equipment. I would like to see razor sharp blowups of some of the forms you took..
I also like the layout and design of your website. Did you program it yourself?
I also like the layout and design of your website. Did you program it yourself?
--Frank B
Frank Benvenuto
Leading Member
John
I know just what you mean by this statement. I do video productions and in the past I did some weddings. I can tell you stress doesn't begin to describe the feeling you can get when things are not going your way. I can think of one time where my video recorder went down right at the introduction of the bride and groom... Holy Cow what a scene.. A quick thinking helper ran for the backup unit but there was some very trying moments that night.
I know just what you mean by this statement. I do video productions and in the past I did some weddings. I can tell you stress doesn't begin to describe the feeling you can get when things are not going your way. I can think of one time where my video recorder went down right at the introduction of the bride and groom... Holy Cow what a scene.. A quick thinking helper ran for the backup unit but there was some very trying moments that night.
--Frank B
wmcdowell
Senior Member
it's funny, i have explained what happend to the thread and you guys are still going after me.
the post was cross threaded, let-it-go.
as far as my statements about wedding pics, i see it like this. i will take a point from the art school i attended.
if you satisfy the point of a project with a good idea and exicute it well, your average...you get a c grade. if you go above and beyond the stated goal, turn in lots of "sketch" material, two or three finished pieces exploring differnt aspects of your idea. then you might get an A.
my point is. if you shoot a wedding and it is the standard package, would this not be average? to me it's very simple.
whats a troll?--way
the post was cross threaded, let-it-go.
as far as my statements about wedding pics, i see it like this. i will take a point from the art school i attended.
if you satisfy the point of a project with a good idea and exicute it well, your average...you get a c grade. if you go above and beyond the stated goal, turn in lots of "sketch" material, two or three finished pieces exploring differnt aspects of your idea. then you might get an A.
my point is. if you shoot a wedding and it is the standard package, would this not be average? to me it's very simple.
whats a troll?--way
wmcdowell
Senior Member
hi, Frank Benvenuto wrote:
thanks for the comments, yes i did my site in golive.
i have the original pics, but the oly is only 2.1mp so even the orginal shots are not near as clean as the newer cams. i am setting-up this shot again for a much higher resolution. i hope i can duplicate it, probably not though as it was just a moment that these images came from.
thanks again.--way
thanks for the comments, yes i did my site in golive.
i have the original pics, but the oly is only 2.1mp so even the orginal shots are not near as clean as the newer cams. i am setting-up this shot again for a much higher resolution. i hope i can duplicate it, probably not though as it was just a moment that these images came from.
thanks again.--way
Trent Mulkern
Senior Member
A troll is someone who strats a controversial thread with the intent of generating heated, often negetive, responses. There is rarely any intent to seek knowledge - just controversy.
If I were a student, I would agree with your analogy; however; running a business is 80% of being a successful photograper or any profession for that matter. If you don't satisfy the customer, starvation will soon set in regardless of what business you are in. Now as a professional photographer you may develope a technique which may or maynot be creative/artistic for which you become known AND which satisfies future customers - then fine. But most photgraphic sessions do not allow the time to be too creative - weddings are an example. You best have it figured out before you go in or the customer will not won't to wait around while you experiment.
Just some food for thought. Happy Holidays.
Regards,
Trent
If I were a student, I would agree with your analogy; however; running a business is 80% of being a successful photograper or any profession for that matter. If you don't satisfy the customer, starvation will soon set in regardless of what business you are in. Now as a professional photographer you may develope a technique which may or maynot be creative/artistic for which you become known AND which satisfies future customers - then fine. But most photgraphic sessions do not allow the time to be too creative - weddings are an example. You best have it figured out before you go in or the customer will not won't to wait around while you experiment.
Just some food for thought. Happy Holidays.
Regards,
Trent
The big difference is the professional wedding photographer will starve to death if the bride simply gives him an A+ = as pros we want MONEY!!!
Even average dollar bills will do nicely, thank you very, very much – just as long as there are enough of them.
Even average dollar bills will do nicely, thank you very, very much – just as long as there are enough of them.
Michael F.
Leading Member
Jason Butler
Forum Enthusiast
The dictionary defines a professional as:
"Engaging in a given activity as a source of livelihood or as a career. An activity performed by persons receiving pay."
There is nothing there about creativity or style. I think this is a failing of many so called "schools". While way is out there learning to do sketches of a photo session, I am earning a living! My "professional" images are boring, but I get paid well for them.
I also engage in creative and artistic imaging. As I said before, I have been recognized for my efforts. but that is still a hobby to me. This is simply because if I had to make my livelihood on creative or artistic photos then I would be broke. Shooting the boring stuff allows me the ability to afford the equipment to shoot the creative subjects.
Way, I see nothing wrong with your work. If you had to pay the rent from selling that stuff, you might be out of luck though.
Think about what it means to be a professional. It has nothing to do with "creativity or art". Those things come from the heart, professional comes from the bank!
Jason
"Engaging in a given activity as a source of livelihood or as a career. An activity performed by persons receiving pay."
There is nothing there about creativity or style. I think this is a failing of many so called "schools". While way is out there learning to do sketches of a photo session, I am earning a living! My "professional" images are boring, but I get paid well for them.
I also engage in creative and artistic imaging. As I said before, I have been recognized for my efforts. but that is still a hobby to me. This is simply because if I had to make my livelihood on creative or artistic photos then I would be broke. Shooting the boring stuff allows me the ability to afford the equipment to shoot the creative subjects.
Way, I see nothing wrong with your work. If you had to pay the rent from selling that stuff, you might be out of luck though.
Think about what it means to be a professional. It has nothing to do with "creativity or art". Those things come from the heart, professional comes from the bank!
Jason
KenEis
Senior Member
Its interesting how professional is used as a put down or a challange. Actually it just means a person who makes money for what they do. To make money you have to be reliable and technically competent. Creativity is not necessary but helps. Mostly I see it used by one amateur to put down another. No it has nothing to do with equipment other then when we are talking about reliability again.
As an amateur photographer I don't enjoy a lot of pro talk because its business stuff. Again this is not a put down just what anyone should expect. Creativity is sprinkled through out both pro and amateur posts. I'd suspect my creative shots wouldn't pay for my camera habit like most amateurs. Lastly, my creative shots are very often acidents or at least lucky shots that surprise me. I'd say 1 shot it 100 would be considered creative and often just to me. A pro's creative shots have to be judged so by others, preferably those actually willing to pay for it.
As an amateur photographer I don't enjoy a lot of pro talk because its business stuff. Again this is not a put down just what anyone should expect. Creativity is sprinkled through out both pro and amateur posts. I'd suspect my creative shots wouldn't pay for my camera habit like most amateurs. Lastly, my creative shots are very often acidents or at least lucky shots that surprise me. I'd say 1 shot it 100 would be considered creative and often just to me. A pro's creative shots have to be judged so by others, preferably those actually willing to pay for it.
Michael F.
Leading Member
We can't, unfortunately, all be Ansel Adams. I met him when I was a kid and he was one crotchety old buzzard. But he certainly was creative and he made a living at it.
I also apprenticed once upon a tome to a guy named Murray Dietz who was one of the top advertising photographers in NYC in the 50's & 60's. He really was creative, too; and he got paid well for it (at least I think he was well paid). This mainly meant that I'd hang around in his darkroom asking stupid questions and largely getting in the way. He was very patient and I learned a tremendous amount about light and shapes and composition. I still don't think I know much, though. Like you, most of my shots that sell are pretty boring and I can't look at them without criticizing them (focus, color, composition, subject . . . Yikes!!).
Mike
I also apprenticed once upon a tome to a guy named Murray Dietz who was one of the top advertising photographers in NYC in the 50's & 60's. He really was creative, too; and he got paid well for it (at least I think he was well paid). This mainly meant that I'd hang around in his darkroom asking stupid questions and largely getting in the way. He was very patient and I learned a tremendous amount about light and shapes and composition. I still don't think I know much, though. Like you, most of my shots that sell are pretty boring and I can't look at them without criticizing them (focus, color, composition, subject . . . Yikes!!).
Mike
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