Properly working lenses on slr/c

[StephaneB]

The most confusing aspect when considering that camera, for me, is to know what lenses work and which don't.

By working, I mean I put it on the body, I shoot and either ACR or PD give me the expected photos.

I understand that TSE lenses create colour problems on the edges when used shifted. I can understand that up to a point. I have a much harder time understanding why non shifted lenses give those problems and frankly I am not prepared to live with that. The slr/c can be a contender if the list of well supported lenses is good enough. But I can't find that list anywhere.

 

[J_M2]

Please provide a list of lenses that work with your cameras and don't produce any color shifts.

j

Hi Stephane,

It should be that easy to get a list of lenses, but there isn't one. At least not for those of use that aren't well connected. Does anyone have an official list from Kodak of lenses that work "perfectly" and without any color shifts. I know that Knut has a public list for Nikon lenses but there are some lenses that work for some people but not for others and without a set of tests at varying apertures, focus etc. there isn't any standardization of methods, so it is probable that if a lens produces a color shift for one person, it will produce a shift on any Kodak that it tested with the same parameters.

A list would save us time and money and we would like our cameras much better. If anyone from Kodak is listening please post a list for the c and n....... please.

j

 

[bill vann]

i have good success with the following

17-40 f4L occasionally shows some fringing easily rectified with PD or PS
50mm 1.4
100 f2.8 macro
70-200 f4L
70-300 DO IS (a lower contrast lens but with minimal tweaking does
fine
tamron SP 28-75 XR Di
Sigma 20 1.8

hope this helps. nothing exotic just basic good glass.

bill

 

[PDM]

You can download the SLR/c manual from Kodak. It contains Appendix B: Lens compatability. It only contains two lists though; one for Sigma and one for Canon. Don't know what it doesn't include Tamron, as the 28-75 Di works very well with no color shifts and other Tamron lenses work fine.

Paul

The most confusing aspect when considering that camera, for me, is
to know what lenses work and which don't.

By working, I mean I put it on the body, I shoot and either ACR or
PD give me the expected photos.

I understand that TSE lenses create colour problems on the edges
when used shifted. I can understand that up to a point. I have a
much harder time understanding why non shifted lenses give those
problems and frankly I am not prepared to live with that. The slr/c
can be a contender if the list of well supported lenses is good
enough. But I can't find that list anywhere.

 

[J_M2]

Hi Paul,

I think that there is a difference between the list that indicates "compatibility" and whether the lens will create a color shift. The list just means that the lens will work from a mechanical standpoint. The Nikon 60mm 2.8 is listed as compatible with the n camera, but it is well known that it will cause a color shift.

To be fair I haven't looked at the list for the Canon but the list for the Nikon doesn't specify anything about color shifts.

I shoot alot of flat neutral color backgrounds so I'm very aware of the shift. Many folks are shooting environments, landscapes, nature etc. and the shifts are masked within the subject matter and therefore will never see the problem, even if it does exist. I have the Tamron 28-75 and it is not completely free of color shifts.

My suggestion is to purchase a lens from a company where you can return it after testing, otherwise you may find yourself in an unhappy situation.

regards,

j

 

[StephaneB]

Well... Thanks, but no thanks.

I understand that the camera has tremendous potential, I am very exited by hat it seems to do at iso 6, but all in all it seems that over 2 years, the price difference with the Canon would be compensated in post-processing time. My first usage would be MF replacement with TSE lenses. OK, that is a slow process anyway, but spending $8000 (body + lenses) in a system that is not mature seems silly for me. I'd rather add the missing 50% and get it all working predictably.

Too bad.

Not all is lost, maybe, I won't move before 2-3 months. Who knows what Kodak can do in that time ?

Thanks to everybody who answered.

Stephane.

Hi Paul,

I think that there is a difference between the list that indicates
"compatibility" and whether the lens will create a color shift. The
list just means that the lens will work from a mechanical
standpoint. The Nikon 60mm 2.8 is listed as compatible with the n
camera, but it is well known that it will cause a color shift.

To be fair I haven't looked at the list for the Canon but the list
for the Nikon doesn't specify anything about color shifts.

I shoot alot of flat neutral color backgrounds so I'm very aware of
the shift. Many folks are shooting environments, landscapes, nature
etc. and the shifts are masked within the subject matter and
therefore will never see the problem, even if it does exist. I have
the Tamron 28-75 and it is not completely free of color shifts.

My suggestion is to purchase a lens from a company where you can
return it after testing, otherwise you may find yourself in an
unhappy situation.

regards,

j

 

[J_M2]

Hi Stephane,

I understand your hesitation. I'm just being curious, if Kodak posted a list of color-shift-free lenses would you change your mind?

j

 

[Garen]

Hi J_M2,

I know it will make me very happy perhaps stephane will change his mind. These lenses that I have do experience color shift:

Canon 24-70L 2.8 a lot;
Canon 100 macro 2.8 some;
Canon 70-200L IS 2.8, some,
Canon 50 1.4 None.

Best Regards,
Garen

Hi Stephane,

I understand your hesitation. I'm just being curious, if Kodak
posted a list of color-shift-free lenses would you change your mind?

j

--
Happy Wife=Happy Life=More Tools & Toys for Photography

 

[rainer viertlboeck]

everything depends on what you are shooting. for me with architecture not any system delivers "instant" results,- and the difference if i have to do 5 postproduction steps or maybee just 3 or 4 is not so essential.

kodaks iso6 is without competition in the market,- although i tend again to go with the 1ds2 for some reasons, it will not reach in several hi-end shooting terrains the quality of the slr n or the slr c,- ( and in all others it will exceed it ).
and..... forget the user manual.

what i experienced and what i listened is that in general all lenses work fine except the 70/80-200/2,8 nikons which normally dont work fine, although there are exceptions. and some macro lenses from nikon.

also shift lenses are showing color shifts if shifted sidewards,- same as with mf backs without aa filtering and microlenses if the light dont come in symmetrical at the sensor. there are more or less complicate,- but functional- workarounds therefore. at all this camera behaves itself much more than a mf system in terms of noise, detail and color issues/shifts than the other 35mm digitals in the market- so every direct comparation will fail. some things the kodak does great,- others not. depends on your needs if this camera is good or not.

 

[rainer viertlboeck]

n.t.

 

[StephaneB]

Hi Stephane,

I understand your hesitation. I'm just being curious, if Kodak
posted a list of color-shift-free lenses would you change your mind?

j

Hi JM

well, it would at least allow me to make an informed choice and it would give more meaning to the warranty. How do one seperate a well working camera from one which is not when such flaws are considered normal?

regards

Stephane

 

[StephaneB]

Garen,

The 24-70L is supposed to be the high quality standard zoom. That it would not work I really don't understand.

My impression is that the 24-70L and 70-200L are the most widely used combo in professional Canon users. A those 2 lenses don't work ?

But ok, we can call it irrelevant in my case. I am more interested in primes, so the 50/1.4 is a start

What about 35, 28, 24, 20, 85, 100, 135, 200 ? I have seen a picture taken with the 200/2.8 and it seemed all right, but did that need post-processing ?

Regards

Stephane

Canon 24-70L 2.8 a lot;
Canon 100 macro 2.8 some;
Canon 70-200L IS 2.8, some,
Canon 50 1.4 None.

Best Regards,
Garen

Hi Stephane,

I understand your hesitation. I'm just being curious, if Kodak
posted a list of color-shift-free lenses would you change your mind?

j

--
Happy Wife=Happy Life=More Tools & Toys for Photography

 

[Garen]

Hi Stephane,

All the so called my problem lenses do work as long as I don't have white or flat greyish looking background and the color shifts that I'm talking about are greenish cast on the left side and magenta color cast on the right side (edges). I tried the same lenses on 1ds and there were no problems. The other primes that you mentioned I simply don't know. Overall I like my slr/c but it is no 1ds 1 or mark II. I paid about 3300 (US) dollars new back in October of 2004 so I'm not complaining.

Good Luck,
Garen

The 24-70L is supposed to be the high quality standard zoom. That
it would not work I really don't understand.

My impression is that the 24-70L and 70-200L are the most widely
used combo in professional Canon users. A those 2 lenses don't work
?

But ok, we can call it irrelevant in my case. I am more interested
in primes, so the 50/1.4 is a start

What about 35, 28, 24, 20, 85, 100, 135, 200 ? I have seen a
picture taken with the 200/2.8 and it seemed all right, but did
that need post-processing ?

Regards

Stephane

Canon 24-70L 2.8 a lot;
Canon 100 macro 2.8 some;
Canon 70-200L IS 2.8, some,
Canon 50 1.4 None.

Best Regards,
Garen

Hi Stephane,

I understand your hesitation. I'm just being curious, if Kodak
posted a list of color-shift-free lenses would you change your mind?

j

--
Happy Wife=Happy Life=More Tools & Toys for Photography

--
Happy Wife=Happy Life=More Tools & Toys for Photography

 

[StephaneB]

Rainer,

My current camera for landscape is a Rollei SL66. That camera makes all its owners tilt addicts

But, it is 30 years old. The shutter is becoming as precise as a politician speech and even with my B&W films, I like to know to what value I expose Besides, of 3 backs, only one is still working perfectly.

I have 300 APX 25 120 (fresh, not expired) in my freezer.

So, I am looking to replace the Rollei. An Arca-Swiss 6x9 seems the most logical path, until one figures out that the digital path is actually cheaper, even in the case of a 1Ds MkII ! And if I include the resale value of my scanner and the 300 APX25, the digital route feels downright cheap compared to the Arca-Swiss

But, but, it has to work and allow me to produce prints measuring 50cm on the shortest side with the same level of quality and with a predictable work-flow.

Thanks for your very valuable input in this forum.

Regards,

Stephane

everything depends on what you are shooting. for me with
architecture not any system delivers "instant" results,- and the
difference if i have to do 5 postproduction steps or maybee just 3
or 4 is not so essential.
kodaks iso6 is without competition in the market,- although i tend
again to go with the 1ds2 for some reasons, it will not reach in
several hi-end shooting terrains the quality of the slr n or the
slr c,- ( and in all others it will exceed it ).
and..... forget the user manual.
what i experienced and what i listened is that in general all
lenses work fine except the 70/80-200/2,8 nikons which normally
dont work fine, although there are exceptions. and some macro
lenses from nikon.
also shift lenses are showing color shifts if shifted sidewards,-
same as with mf backs without aa filtering and microlenses if the
light dont come in symmetrical at the sensor. there are more or
less complicate,- but functional- workarounds therefore. at all
this camera behaves itself much more than a mf system in terms of
noise, detail and color issues/shifts than the other 35mm digitals
in the market- so every direct comparation will fail. some things
the kodak does great,- others not. depends on your needs if this
camera is good or not.

 

[PDM]

I was only trying to be helpful in pointing towards Kodak's "official" list for the SLR/c. I personally have tried a very small percentage of those lenses myself so I couldn't say how "compatible" any of those lenses are. There is also, naturally, a difference between the SLR/c and n when it comes to lens compatibility and color shifts.

Concerning the Tamron 28-75 Di, maybe your SLR/c is different than mine. I've never had a single picture come from the Tamron where I have a noticeable color shift and I've used that lens for 90% of my SLR/c pictures to date. I also haven't noticed any issue with the Sigma 12-24, 28/1.8, or 150 Macro, but I haven't used those lenses enough to say for sure. There may be some issue at times with the Sigma 70-200 HSM. I haven't used it enough to quantify what it might be, but it's certainly not pervasive. From what I've gathered, 7x-2x0 zooms cause the biggest problems for the SLR/x's when it comes to color shifts. Maybe staying away from zooms in that focal length range is your best bet. There are lots of good 85,100,135,150,180,200 primes that cover the same territory.

Hey, J - How about posting a pic from the Tamron with a color shift? Include the EXIF info and I'll duplicate it and see if I have an issue. I really don't believe I have any color issue with that lens.

Paul

Hi Paul,

I think that there is a difference between the list that indicates
"compatibility" and whether the lens will create a color shift. The
list just means that the lens will work from a mechanical
standpoint. The Nikon 60mm 2.8 is listed as compatible with the n
camera, but it is well known that it will cause a color shift.

To be fair I haven't looked at the list for the Canon but the list
for the Nikon doesn't specify anything about color shifts.

I shoot alot of flat neutral color backgrounds so I'm very aware of
the shift. Many folks are shooting environments, landscapes, nature
etc. and the shifts are masked within the subject matter and
therefore will never see the problem, even if it does exist. I have
the Tamron 28-75 and it is not completely free of color shifts.

My suggestion is to purchase a lens from a company where you can
return it after testing, otherwise you may find yourself in an
unhappy situation.

regards,

j

 

[J_M2]

I was only trying to be helpful in pointing towards Kodak's
"official" list for the SLR/c.

Hi Paul,

I apologize if my message sounded too harsh, it certainly wasn't intended to be, and definitely not aimed at you. I was just trying to give Stephane some information that I wasn't aware of when I purchased the camera.

I really do like this camera, but Kodak could make the end user experience a little easier by posting a new list of lenses that are "really" compatible".

best regards,

j

 

[StephaneB]

I was only trying to be helpful in pointing towards Kodak's
"official" list for the SLR/c.

Hi Paul,

I apologize if my message sounded too harsh, it certainly wasn't
intended to be, and definitely not aimed at you. I was just trying
to give Stephane some information that I wasn't aware of when I
purchased the camera.

I really do like this camera, but Kodak could make the end user
experience a little easier by posting a new list of lenses that are
"really" compatible".

Not only the end user experience, but I will most probably not buy it because the supplier makes no clear statement of what works and what does not. If they did, I might conclude that it is a viable proposition for me and buy. They hurt themselves more than me, actually.

I will ask the same question on robgalbraith.com forum, I know Kodak techs read it.

Regards,

Stephane

best regards,

j

 

[J_M2]

Hey, J - How about posting a pic from the Tamron with a color
shift? Include the EXIF info and I'll duplicate it and see if I
have an issue. I really don't believe I have any color issue with
that lens.

Hi Paul,

If you have any white plastic, plexiglas, milk glass etc. try pressing it up against the front of the lens and pointing the camera at a table lamp, the white material will be sufficient to evenly disperse the light. Shoot and white balance on the center of the image. Then shoot at 2.8 and at f32 at a variety of focal lengths and also changing the focus from infinity to macro. When I'm testing I set the camera at raw 3meg resolution so that I can play with the lens op settings in PD. When you are done run the densitometer in PD or PS over the image. There will be some falloff which is normal but you are looking for the change in color. BTW... my camera is a SLRn so there may be some difference in the lens mount that may effect the results.

j

 

[david thrower]

Hi All,

I use the following lenses with my SLR/C :

50mm 1.8 Mk1 - Often gives colour abberations
50mm Macro - Some colour shift but not as bad as 50mm 1.8 Mk1
24mm 2.8 - Generally good with the odd colour problem
17-40mm f4 - No problems at all
200mm 2.8 L Mk1 - Not had this lens for long but no problem so far
100mm f2 - no problem

I must admit the colour problems initially worried me but now I have my slr/c I really love it and I am very happy with the camera. I find the expodisc very helpful in minimising colour shift problems.

Best of luck

Dave Thrower
http://www.redshift-photography.co.uk

Hey, J - How about posting a pic from the Tamron with a color
shift? Include the EXIF info and I'll duplicate it and see if I
have an issue. I really don't believe I have any color issue with
that lens.

Hi Paul,

If you have any white plastic, plexiglas, milk glass etc. try
pressing it up against the front of the lens and pointing the
camera at a table lamp, the white material will be sufficient to
evenly disperse the light. Shoot and white balance on the center of
the image. Then shoot at 2.8 and at f32 at a variety of focal
lengths and also changing the focus from infinity to macro. When
I'm testing I set the camera at raw 3meg resolution so that I can
play with the lens op settings in PD. When you are done run the
densitometer in PD or PS over the image. There will be some falloff
which is normal but you are looking for the change in color. BTW...
my camera is a SLRn so there may be some difference in the lens
mount that may effect the results.

j

 

[FW Scharpf]

Stephane,

I use the SLR/c as a replacement for my Rollei SL66. In prints up to Super A3 (13x19") -- which is the largest my prtinter can do -- the detail and tonality are as good or better than what I could get from scans of Fuj Provia Rollei slides. I am perfectly happy with it, and my workflow is quite straightforward: Adobe Camera Raw, primarily used to optimize exposure, then PK Sharpener Hi Res Capture sharpening. Then the usual adjustments of contrast and saturation in Photoshop, then PK Output Sharpening. That's all.

As for lenses, I have:

Canon TS-E 45mm: No color shift when tilting. I rarely use it shifted. Very sharp
Sigma Macro 105 mm: Extremely sharp, no color shift.

Tamron 28-75mm: Very sharp. I once had a series of shots with very strong magenta/cyan color shift. Since then. I have taken about a thousand shots with this lens without any color shift at all. An unresolved puzzle.
Canon 70-200 f$: very sharp. No color shift whatever.

Coming from the Rollei, I thought to use the SLR/c only on a tripod for landscape and nature work. But I have discovered that in reasonably good light it is also a (somewhat heavy) hand camera that can even be used for snapshots with exceedingly fine detail.

In other words: I have sold my Rolleis and lenses.

But I am still undecided about more TS-E lenses. The 90mm is said to be very sharp, and I will eventually get it. But the few reports on the TS-E 24mm suggest that it is less sharp. I also doubt if the great DOF at 24mm f 3.5 will allow me to precisely adjust focus according to the Scheimpflug rules. I would need to find a dealer where I could test the lens.

An alternative might be a super wide angle lens with sufficient DOF like the Sigma 12-24mm that is highly regarded on this forum.

At any rate: The cost difference between the SLR/c and the Canion allow me to buy more lenses -- and if I really needed higher ISO performance, I could always get a Canon D 20 or 350 body for these lenses.

FWS

The most confusing aspect when considering that camera, for me, is
to know what lenses work and which don't.

By working, I mean I put it on the body, I shoot and either ACR or
PD give me the expected photos.

I understand that TSE lenses create colour problems on the edges
when used shifted. I can understand that up to a point. I have a
much harder time understanding why non shifted lenses give those
problems and frankly I am not prepared to live with that. The slr/c
can be a contender if the list of well supported lenses is good
enough. But I can't find that list anywhere.