Processing software - an observation and a question

[BernhardRos]

I use rawtherapee, Topaz Denoise and Gimp.

The workflow is fine for me. But I'm wondering if Adobe LR+PS or Capture One would enhance the image quality compared to the Freeware programs.

 

[RetiringGuy]

Alan,

With recent versions of Capture One 'Print' has been replaced by 'Export', Look for 'Export' in the top left hand area of C1.

Capture One does show you metadata. If you cannot see a 'Metadata' tools tab in the tool tabs selection bar then 1 right click on the '>>' to the right of the tools tab selections bar then 2 select 'Metadata'. You should be able to drag the Metadata tools icon onto the tools tabs selection bar to make it permanently visible. (This is true for Mac computers, I don't know about Windows computers.)

RG

 

[Alan Sh]

I finally managed to dodge the rain and get out for 10 minutes. Took some pictures just to get used to the camera and then had a play with Capture One to see what I could get out. I apprlied a bit of sharpening and changed the level to reduce some of the shadow near the benches - that was it.

I do like Velvia and I thought converting a file to Sepia was interesting. These are cut down to 1920 x 1080 just to keep the size down (not sure what the largest file one can upload here).

.

 

[deednets]

I use an outdated version of LR, so I need to process Raf files through Iridient first, no big deal. I am so familiar with LR that I do not want to change. C1 is going to subscription mode also, so that seems to be the future for the big names.

My advice is to try a few options and test them, and then settle on a product/workflow.

 

[deednets]

I have Photoshop Elements 2023, Capture 1 Express and Fujifilm X Raw Studio. Each of them does some things that others don't.

Elements is my go-to s/w for cropping and basic stuff plus printing. I've used it for years and it's OK. By default the raw processor for the X-T5 won't be loaded - you have to manually copy the .8bi file across to another folder to get V15 (which the T5 RAF files need). It will display the metadata but the main stuff is all in raw format. Readable because it's XML (thank you Fuji - much nicer than Canon), but not easy to read inside the app (I extracted it into notepad++ and it was much easier to read).

Capture one Express is nice. It does really good sharpening for soft(ish) lenses and seems to have the fim simulations buit in without needing the camera connected. But I cannot find anywhere that it can display the meta data, which I do like to use. I think this will me my main s/w for tidiying up pictures. I will have to work out how it all works and whether I can print from it.

X Raw Studio is good for looking at meta data, but it needs my camera connected to be able to do any conversions. I understand why, but it's a pain as the lead they provide is quite short. And it's a bit 'clunky' to use. And doesn't seem to allow much in the way of 'playing' with the files.

So, I am not sure what to settle on as my 'goto' software.

What do others use? And don't suggest Photoshop - there's no way I am paying those prices - I've got lenses to buy :-D

Ala

Please forgive me if it seems that I'm taking your comments too lightly, but after the investments you've made in camera gear, etc. you feel that $10/month is too much for the fundamental software you would need to use consistently to process your images? Unless you want to shoot JPG exclusively, it's simply part of the costs associated with this hobby, regardless whether it's LR, C1, or any other such processing software. Given the value of having highly capable software that is kept up-to-date, I frankly don't have a big problem with paying $120 USD a year to have that capability. There are plenty of other options out there, but I don't feel that the subscription price is by any means a rip-off or unreasonable. There are other options out there, but given how important processing software is to me, I don't in any way begrudge the cost. What's more, having capable processing software (unless you exclusively shoot only JPGs) is simply a necessity and no less important than having the right gear for the job, regardless whether it's LR, C1, or whatever you prefer.

So... that's sort of a long answer to a short question, but that's what I use and I feel it's more than worth the cost. Clearly, YMMV.

 

[RetiringGuy]

As with 'deednets' I too am a long term C1 beta tester (and user) and also have not heard any suggestion that C1 is going subscription only so, I would also be interested interested in knowing what/who your source was.

RG

 

[sluggy_warrior]

I use rawtherapee, Topaz Denoise and Gimp.

The workflow is fine for me. But I'm wondering if Adobe LR+PS or Capture One would enhance the image quality compared to the Freeware programs.

just a small correction: RawTherapee and GIMP are free software, not freeware

 

[sluggy_warrior]

You should keep in mind however they are releasing a new, major version every single year, usually some time in October. Once that new version is released, support for the previous version stops pretty soon after, that also includes support for newer cameras. During that year, they typically release smaller updates with support for more cameras, improved features, bug fixes, performance improvements and so on for free.

ah, darktable also has a similar schedule. They release a major version every xmas, with smaller updates during the year. The difference is, every version is free (as in speech and as in beer)

Releases · darktable-org/darktable

darktable is an open source photography workflow application and raw developer - darktable-org/darktable

github.com

Support obviously comes from the community:

Topics tagged darktable

Topics tagged darktable

discuss.pixls.us

 

[RetiringGuy]

........

I do like Velvia and I thought converting a file to Sepia was interesting. These are cut down to 1920 x 1080 just to keep the size down (not sure what the largest file one can upload here).

Just checked. DPRs' upload limits are ;-

• JPEG image files only (for now)
• Maximum of 20 MB or 20 megapixels in size
• Maximum of 30,000 pixels along any axis
• Free account limits
  • Maximum of 200 MB uploads per month (resets first of each month)
  • Maximum of 1,000 photos in total per account
• Pro account (coming soon)
  • No monthly upload limits
  • No total photos limit

RG

 

[Jerry-astro]

I have Photoshop Elements 2023, Capture 1 Express and Fujifilm X Raw Studio. Each of them does some things that others don't.

Elements is my go-to s/w for cropping and basic stuff plus printing. I've used it for years and it's OK. By default the raw processor for the X-T5 won't be loaded - you have to manually copy the .8bi file across to another folder to get V15 (which the T5 RAF files need). It will display the metadata but the main stuff is all in raw format. Readable because it's XML (thank you Fuji - much nicer than Canon), but not easy to read inside the app (I extracted it into notepad++ and it was much easier to read).

Capture one Express is nice. It does really good sharpening for soft(ish) lenses and seems to have the fim simulations buit in without needing the camera connected. But I cannot find anywhere that it can display the meta data, which I do like to use. I think this will me my main s/w for tidiying up pictures. I will have to work out how it all works and whether I can print from it.

X Raw Studio is good for looking at meta data, but it needs my camera connected to be able to do any conversions. I understand why, but it's a pain as the lead they provide is quite short. And it's a bit 'clunky' to use. And doesn't seem to allow much in the way of 'playing' with the files.

So, I am not sure what to settle on as my 'goto' software.

What do others use? And don't suggest Photoshop - there's no way I am paying those prices - I've got lenses to buy :-D

Ala

Please forgive me if it seems that I'm taking your comments too lightly, but after the investments you've made in camera gear, etc. you feel that $10/month is too much for the fundamental software you would need to use consistently to process your images? Unless you want to shoot JPG exclusively, it's simply part of the costs associated with this hobby, regardless whether it's LR, C1, or any other such processing software. Given the value of having highly capable software that is kept up-to-date, I frankly don't have a big problem with paying $120 USD a year to have that capability. There are plenty of other options out there, but I don't feel that the subscription price is by any means a rip-off or unreasonable. There are other options out there, but given how important processing software is to me, I don't in any way begrudge the cost. What's more, having capable processing software (unless you exclusively shoot only JPGs) is simply a necessity and no less important than having the right gear for the job, regardless whether it's LR, C1, or whatever you prefer.

So... that's sort of a long answer to a short question, but that's what I use and I feel it's more than worth the cost. Clearly, YMMV.

Jerry, I think you somehow fail to see how close to the wind many people live. What eats into people's budget isn't the 10.00 US/month, but it being just one more regular visitor. Had a job for a rather well off older person from the financial world. She had received an update for remote control of her alarm from 65 to 98/ month.

She asked me whether I had any idea how many regular, subcription based payments she had to deal with?

Well, I think you know where this is going? The mantra of "just this little bit more" doesn't work for everyone.

And then you take a good hard look at one-off, but that's it, versus subscriptions. A one-off Office 2021 versus Office 365. 4k Netflix versus standard HD .

You're lucky if you find those decisions trivial, I am in a similar boat, but if I would retire, I would need to take a good look as to how to reduce my US$ 500+ regular payments per month. We don't rent.

Realities are often very different depending on your circumstances.

I absolutely acknowledge that the periodic payment approach doesn’t appeal to everyone, and am in no way trying to trivialize the costs involved. Clearly, in some cases it’s off-putting enough to drive people to use different tools. As with any pricing scheme, it becomes a matter of cost vs. value, and if enough people see the cost as too high to justify the value, then the market will adjust appropriately and drive people to use other tools. I don’t see the issue as trivial at all, but one thing about pricing is that it tends to be self-adjusting. If enough people find the cost of a given product to be well above its value, then they will pursue alternatives… the end result being a loss of revenue and most likely an eventual reduction in cost. Clearly enough people (begrudgingly or otherwise) feel that the value of the product justifies the cost and continue to use it.

Bottom line: I totally agree that this scheme doesn’t work for everyone, and if Adobe loses enough business to impact it’s revenue targets, it’s safe to assume that they with either have to rethink their approach or suffer a loss in revenue/profit. I’m not nuts about the periodic payments either, but for my own purposes, I find it worth the investment. Certainly, many others will disagree and find alternatives more to their liking with respect to the relative value of the tool to their own workflow and needs.

--
Jerry-Astro
Fuji Forum co-Mod

 

[deednets]

I have Photoshop Elements 2023, Capture 1 Express and Fujifilm X Raw Studio. Each of them does some things that others don't.

Elements is my go-to s/w for cropping and basic stuff plus printing. I've used it for years and it's OK. By default the raw processor for the X-T5 won't be loaded - you have to manually copy the .8bi file across to another folder to get V15 (which the T5 RAF files need). It will display the metadata but the main stuff is all in raw format. Readable because it's XML (thank you Fuji - much nicer than Canon), but not easy to read inside the app (I extracted it into notepad++ and it was much easier to read).

Capture one Express is nice. It does really good sharpening for soft(ish) lenses and seems to have the fim simulations buit in without needing the camera connected. But I cannot find anywhere that it can display the meta data, which I do like to use. I think this will me my main s/w for tidiying up pictures. I will have to work out how it all works and whether I can print from it.

X Raw Studio is good for looking at meta data, but it needs my camera connected to be able to do any conversions. I understand why, but it's a pain as the lead they provide is quite short. And it's a bit 'clunky' to use. And doesn't seem to allow much in the way of 'playing' with the files.

So, I am not sure what to settle on as my 'goto' software.

What do others use? And don't suggest Photoshop - there's no way I am paying those prices - I've got lenses to buy :-D

Ala

Please forgive me if it seems that I'm taking your comments too lightly, but after the investments you've made in camera gear, etc. you feel that $10/month is too much for the fundamental software you would need to use consistently to process your images? Unless you want to shoot JPG exclusively, it's simply part of the costs associated with this hobby, regardless whether it's LR, C1, or any other such processing software. Given the value of having highly capable software that is kept up-to-date, I frankly don't have a big problem with paying $120 USD a year to have that capability. There are plenty of other options out there, but I don't feel that the subscription price is by any means a rip-off or unreasonable. There are other options out there, but given how important processing software is to me, I don't in any way begrudge the cost. What's more, having capable processing software (unless you exclusively shoot only JPGs) is simply a necessity and no less important than having the right gear for the job, regardless whether it's LR, C1, or whatever you prefer.

So... that's sort of a long answer to a short question, but that's what I use and I feel it's more than worth the cost. Clearly, YMMV.

Jerry, I think you somehow fail to see how close to the wind many people live. What eats into people's budget isn't the 10.00 US/month, but it being just one more regular visitor. Had a job for a rather well off older person from the financial world. She had received an update for remote control of her alarm from 65 to 98/ month.

She asked me whether I had any idea how many regular, subcription based payments she had to deal with?

Well, I think you know where this is going? The mantra of "just this little bit more" doesn't work for everyone.

And then you take a good hard look at one-off, but that's it, versus subscriptions. A one-off Office 2021 versus Office 365. 4k Netflix versus standard HD .

You're lucky if you find those decisions trivial, I am in a similar boat, but if I would retire, I would need to take a good look as to how to reduce my US$ 500+ regular payments per month. We don't rent.

Realities are often very different depending on your circumstances.

I absolutely acknowledge that the periodic payment approach doesn’t appeal to everyone, and am in no way trying to trivialize the costs involved. Clearly, in some cases it’s off-putting enough to drive people to use different tools. As with any pricing scheme, it becomes a matter of cost vs. value, and if enough people see the cost as too high to justify the value, then the market will adjust appropriately and drive people to use other tools. I don’t see the issue as trivial at all, but one thing about pricing is that it tends to be self-adjusting. If enough people find the cost of a given product to be well above its value, then they will pursue alternatives… the end result being a loss of revenue and most likely an eventual reduction in cost. Clearly enough people (begrudgingly or otherwise) feel that the value of the product justifies the cost and continue to use it.

Bottom line: I totally agree that this scheme doesn’t work for everyone, and if Adobe loses enough business to impact it’s revenue targets, it’s safe to assume that they with either have to rethink their approach or suffer a loss in revenue/profit. I’m not nuts about the periodic payments either, but for my own purposes, I find it worth the investment. Certainly, many others will disagree and find alternatives more to their liking with respect to the relative value of the tool to their own workflow and needs.

Hey, Jerry, all good - of course!!!

Funny you should mention "adjustments" as Adobe found it ok to charge A$ 59.00 (what's that?? 38US??) per month, but of course including the whole enchilada of products, even when somebody only wanted, or needed, LR. I had a look yesterday and they now (not sure how long they had this...) offer an A$ 15.00/month. That's a whisper more than 25% of what they had been aiming for originally. Here in NZ I had this in my inbox also when they offered that I could use the whole suite for "just" NZ$ 800.00/year ...

Ah, well .. you know the market will indeed regulate itself to a degree. But in contrast to your opinion "whether it is worth the expense" it is imho often closer to the chest as it may also reflect the already stretched budget.

Or: you don't believe in renting. You prefer some sort of sense of "ownership". I think that I might not always chase the next best thing and no longer regularly update my gear and then ownership of some C1 22 might then just be ok, like Photoshop CS3 (I own) has been for me for many years. With a subscription you will need to find another way. When you have hit 65, this might also have some influence on what you think about "value" your last car?? Will this see you "out"??

Of course you and me we're still young. Right?? ;-)

Deed

 

[Jerry-astro]

Of course you and me we're still young. Right?? ;-)

Deed

I’m afraid I passed that milestone many more years ago than I might be willing to admit.

 

[Ken Thomson]

I endeavour to NOT set up regular payments for anything....

I'd rather pay a one off fee (savings pot) and know that my income and outgoings will be OK even if my savings disappear.

I bought my first Adobe sub last year as a Black Friday deal, it was about £65 for a year paid in advance. I can decide whether to renew next year. If I do nothing it will lapse but I'll still have quite a lot of functionality with the free version.


regards, Ken

 

[Acmespaceship]

Re software pricing: a chacun son gout.

Re software: It seems like nobody I know has a single go-to editing program anymore. Adobe loyalists use both LR and PS and who knows how many plugins. We have an embarrassment of riches. So many developers, products, upgrades. Different software excels at different tasks. Maybe we should embrace the chaos?

My workflow at the moment looks something like this, depending on what I think the photo needs (and whether I'm in the mood to spend a lot of time on it):

FastStone Image Viewer for file management, culling, quick crops and exposure fixes. This is free and open source software. The one program that touches every shot I take, and the one program I could not live without.

Topaz Sharpen AI on the rare photos where I think it will matter. I am happy I bought it and often get great results, but I have not felt the need to buy this year's upgrade. YMMV.

ON1 PhotoRaw as my primary editor for most photos. Some people are not happy with it but it works well for me and it has sped up my workflow considerably. I bought the 2023 upgrade but I don't necessarily upgrade every year.

GIMP in all its complicated, intimidating glory. It was a slog using GIMP for every routine photo edit before I caved and bought ON1. Still, GIMP is essential when I need advanced tools for composites, gradient maps, repairing old photos... the gnarly stuff. I love that I can count on GIMP to do what needs to be done, no matter what computer I'm using and no matter what my finances might require in the future. Free. Open Source. Win/Mac/Linux.

G'MIC plugins for both GIMP and ON1. Free and open source. Toys, toys, toys. Every day is Christmas morning. Everybody needs G'MIC if only for the film emulations. Seriously.

NIK plugins. I use the old free version Google released when they bought Snapseed. Not frequently in my workflow, but I'll use it sometimes for special effects.

FotoSketcher. Freeware for Windows and (experimentally) Mac. Lightweight, easy to use software for oil painting, watercolor, pencil and other media effects that are realistic and beautiful. Utterly nonessential. Entirely delightful.

Smart Photo Editor (from Anthropics Software). A dizzying and constantly-expanding collection of crowdsourced effects. For 30 bucks it's worth it for the borders and textures alone. I don't use it often, and it's too buggy on my system to use in my main workflow. But oh boy, when you need something to change things up, this is it. The results can be gorgeous. Or silly. Sometimes both. A great source of inspiration and a reminder that editing photos is supposed to be fun!

My apologies for giving a very bad answer to your question about finding a single go-to program! I'm not sure a single program is a good objective. Find the tools that work for you, at a price you're comfortable with, and expect to change it up sometimes. Good luck and enjoy exploring the options.

 

[Alan Sh]

Thank you for that comprehensive answer. It's certainly made me think.

For now, I will stick with Capture One. It seems to do what I want in simple editing. I am still learning and will try other s/w (GIMP sounds fun) as I come up against things that C-One can't do.

Alan

 

[britcam]

Thank you for that comprehensive answer. It's certainly made me think.

For now, I will stick with Capture One. It seems to do what I want in simple editing. I am still learning and will try other s/w (GIMP sounds fun) as I come up against things that C-One can't do.

Alan

Can I suggest you also have a look at ACDSee ? I’ve used it for years after originally using Lightroom.

I have found it very capable - quicker than LR & at relatively low cost. It produces excellent results ..

 

[Alan Sh]

Thanks I will have a look.