Problems with G7

[Enir]

I have two main problems with the Canon G7:

• An unusual amount of blurred pictures at the long end.
• Lack of fine detail due to excessive noise suppression

Are these common problems or is there something I could do to solve them? I usually shoot at ISO 80 and with "flexizone" focus..

I don't pretend to get the same results as when I shoot with my 5D, but I have the impression that the Panasonic LX2 is more detailed, at least when shooting raw.

Enrique

 

[Joe Mondello]

Well IS will only do so much to help with motion blur at the long end.

And loss of detail at ISO 80, hmmm, can you post some samples or links to some so we can see what you are referring to.
--
Cheers,
Joe

 

[ne beginner]

Even with IS you still need to watch that at the long end ... The lens is also pretty slow out there, so it's easy to end up in a situation where the shutter speed, even with IS, is too low to stop camera shake.

 

[bogeyman]

I have two main problems with the Canon G7:

• An unusual amount of blurred pictures at the long end.
• Lack of fine detail due to excessive noise suppression

I think the only way around blurred detail is if we all stopped buying it.

Are these common problems or is there something I could do to solve
them? I usually shoot at ISO 80 and with "flexizone" focus..

I don't pretend to get the same results as when I shoot with my 5D,
but I have the impression that the Panasonic LX2 is more detailed,
at least when shooting raw.

Enrique

 

[Savas Kyprianides]

I have two main problems with the Canon G7:

• An unusual amount of blurred pictures at the long end.
• Lack of fine detail due to excessive noise suppression

Are these common problems or is there something I could do to solve
them? I usually shoot at ISO 80 and with "flexizone" focus..

I don't pretend to get the same results as when I shoot with my 5D,
but I have the impression that the Panasonic LX2 is more detailed,
at least when shooting raw.

Enrique

There's a person nameed Enrique who has a differing opinion. Same person?

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1010&message=21748460

--
5D and G7
Happy together.

 

[Ed Bigelow]

The G7 IQ degrades considerably wide open at any FL, as well as fully stopped-down.

At full tele FL, (44mm) the G7 has only 1 1/3 stop of adjustment, so IQ can easiily suffer. For best results I try to use f:6.3 for telephoto.

For full wide I use a min. of f:4.0 and more if zoomed out.

Hope this helps.

Ed

 

[stephaneonline]

[No message]

 

[fotobuff]

I was taking out of focus photos on tele even on shutter speeds of 1/640 and faster..... regardless of whether i used flexizone, AiAf or face detect.

I opened a thread a few weeks back about sensor dust and how the local canon maintenance found it necessary to change the entire optical unit to resolve the issue. Well ... they did change it but have had blurred tele photos ever since ..... not on all photos though ... but most of them incl. many with fast shutter speeds.

I gave the camera into service 2 days ago and am hoping it's just a focus calibration problem. I'll let you know result once I get it back Wednesday.

--
Hisham
http://www.him2.smugmug.com

 

[veroman]

I have two main problems with the Canon G7:

• An unusual amount of blurred pictures at the long end.
• Lack of fine detail due to excessive noise suppression

I don't experience blurring MOST of the time. Capturing fine detail is not a problem at all.

I might add that I tend to shoot at -1 or -2 Contrast and -1 to -2 Sharpening in order to keep the in-camera processing to a minimum, and I rarely shoot wide open. The largest I usually go is f/4. Here's an example of what I think is good detail and sharpness at telephoto range, especially when you consider the shooting conditions! Even at the small size of this example JPEG, you can clearly see the shadows of the siding, make out the shape of each, individual railing post (on my monitor anyway) and see detail in the snow on the main roof as well as on the front panel of the roof covering the porch. Not bad for a camera with such a teeny, tiny sensor.



--
SteveG
http://www.stephenmichaelgarey.com

 

[Abana]

Nice image. Appears sharp front to back. Also, not shooting less than f/4 is handy info. I'll give that a try here. At what focal length was this image captured? And, given that in cam processing was reduced, what PP was applied with what program? (Sorry for the interrogation...information is everything...)

Thanks,
abana

 

[veroman]

Nice image. Appears sharp front to back. Also, not shooting less
than f/4 is handy info. I'll give that a try here. At what focal
length was this image captured? And, given that in cam processing
was reduced, what PP was applied with what program?

I don't recall the focal length. I'd guess around 150-175mm.

My post-processing routine is pretty standard. I open all files in DPP (Canon's Digital Photo Professional) and do some minor color, contrast and brightness work, but NO sharpening.

I then move on to Photoshop Elements, save the file as a TIFF, then adjust levels, color, highlights/shadows, brightness/contrast, etc. I first sharpen with "Sharpen Edges." With 99% of the files, it's hardly noticeable, but it makes a big difference when I then move on to Unsharp Mask. (It can dramatically reduce or eliminate halos around fine detail when USM is applied.)

My initial setting for USM is 300% Amount, 0.3% Radius (that's ZERO point 3) and 1%-4% Threshold, depending on the amount of noise. Depending on the shot, USM can go as low as 200%, 0.2%, 0 Threshold. If absolutely necessary, I'll do some microcontrast USM at 10%-50% Amount, 2%-5% Radius, 1% Threshold...but only if absolutely necessary, and if necessary, it's done BEFORE applying USM.

A well-exposed, nicely composed G7 shot takes about 15-20 minutes total. If it takes longer than that, my first inclination is to question the image quality of the shot.

--
SteveG
http://www.stephenmichaelgarey.com

 

[PEHowland]

I have two main problems with the Canon G7:

• An unusual amount of blurred pictures at the long end.
• Lack of fine detail due to excessive noise suppression

Are these common problems or is there something I could do to solve
them? I usually shoot at ISO 80 and with "flexizone" focus..

How do you that the lack of fine detail is due to excessive noise suppression? Could that not also be due to whatever is causing the blurring at the long end? Anyway, things that could cause the blurring and lack of detail are (in no particular order):

• Lens diffraction (so try to use wider apertures)
• Lens edge effects (use smaller apertures - but highly unlikely to be a problem with the G7)
• Incorrect focus (experiment with focus more, concentrate on what the camera says it's doing)
• High ISO modes (stop using Auto, fix on ISO80 or 100)
• Excessive jpeg compression (use high quality mode)
• Camera shake (use faster speeds, use IS, hold the camera steadier, try a tripod)
• Excessive image processing (reduce in-camera contrast and sharpening and use Photoshop instead)
• Unrealistic expectations of an image viewed at 100% on your monitor (stop pixel-peeping)
• Camera fault (speak to our dealer)

In general, the G7 is capable of taking high quality images for its class. You can see from the above, that most causes of blurred images are controlable by you - only the final cause requires you to speak to the reapir shop. Hope this helps.

 

[Enir]

I have two main problems with the Canon G7:

• An unusual amount of blurred pictures at the long end.
• Lack of fine detail due to excessive noise suppression

Are these common problems or is there something I could do to solve
them? I usually shoot at ISO 80 and with "flexizone" focus..

I don't pretend to get the same results as when I shoot with my 5D,
but I have the impression that the Panasonic LX2 is more detailed,
at least when shooting raw.

Enrique

There's a person nameed Enrique who has a differing opinion. Same
person?

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1010&message=21748460

--
5D and G7
Happy together.

Same person, a few months later. My main problem with the G7 is its noise suppression and the plastic-like look that this gives to some pictures. The raw files of the LX2 and the JPGs of the Fuji F10 don’t have this problem. They have others… It’s a real shame that the G7 doesn’t shoot raw.

Maybe what happens is that I don’t care enough for point and shoot cameras and that even if it is not a conscious process I tend to compare the results of the G7 with the results of the 5D with some great L lenses.

I’m selling my G7. I would love to have a pocket camera, but I don’t know if there is one I am going to really like.

Enrique

 

[Enir]

I have two main problems with the Canon G7:

• An unusual amount of blurred pictures at the long end.
• Lack of fine detail due to excessive noise suppression

Are these common problems or is there something I could do to solve
them? I usually shoot at ISO 80 and with "flexizone" focus..

How do you that the lack of fine detail is due to excessive noise
suppression?

I recognize the plastic effect of noise reduction. I had it before with the Canon Ixus 850 and with the Leica C1.

Enrique

Could that not also be due to whatever is causing the
blurring at the long end? Anyway, things that could cause the
blurring and lack of detail are (in no particular order):

• Lens diffraction (so try to use wider apertures)
• Lens edge effects (use smaller apertures - but highly unlikely to

be a problem with the G7)

• Incorrect focus (experiment with focus more, concentrate on what

the camera says it's doing)

• High ISO modes (stop using Auto, fix on ISO80 or 100)
• Excessive jpeg compression (use high quality mode)
• Camera shake (use faster speeds, use IS, hold the camera

steadier, try a tripod)

• Excessive image processing (reduce in-camera contrast and

sharpening and use Photoshop instead)

• Unrealistic expectations of an image viewed at 100% on your

monitor (stop pixel-peeping)

• Camera fault (speak to our dealer)

In general, the G7 is capable of taking high quality images for its
class. You can see from the above, that most causes of blurred
images are controlable by you - only the final cause requires you
to speak to the reapir shop. Hope this helps.

 

[Enir]

Yep. I never know if pictures taken with the G7 will be blurred or not. Add the plastic-like look of noise reduction and the result is that I leave the camera home all the time...

Enrique

I was taking out of focus photos on tele even on shutter speeds of
1/640 and faster..... regardless of whether i used flexizone, AiAf
or face detect.

I opened a thread a few weeks back about sensor dust and how the
local canon maintenance found it necessary to change the entire
optical unit to resolve the issue. Well ... they did change it but
have had blurred tele photos ever since ..... not on all photos
though ... but most of them incl. many with fast shutter speeds.

I gave the camera into service 2 days ago and am hoping it's just a
focus calibration problem. I'll let you know result once I get it
back Wednesday.

--
Hisham
http://www.him2.smugmug.com

 

[Leo]

PEHowland,
I have posted RAW and JPG images with histograms.
Link to the post:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1010&message=22498483

Leo

 

[PEHowland]

Same person, a few months later. My main problem with the G7 is its
noise suppression and the plastic-like look that this gives to some
pictures.

I strongly suspect this is actually a problem with the high noise on a 10MP 1/1.8" sensor. If Canon didn't suppress the noise to the extent they do, the image would be slated for being so noisy compared with its older generation 6MP (and lower) cameras.

The raw files of the LX2 and the JPGs of the Fuji F10
don’t have this problem. They have others… It’s a real shame that
the G7 doesn’t shoot raw.

There's no magic solution here. The CCD produces fundamentally noisy images due to the small size of each pixel. Even if you shot in raw, you'd still have to average away the noise and hence reduce apparent detail in favour of a smooth image. The only advantage raw gives you here is if you want to retain a grainy image. But you wouldn't be able to extract any extra detail, I suspect. That's the price you pay for a compact camera.

Maybe what happens is that I don’t care enough for point and shoot
cameras and that even if it is not a conscious process I tend to
compare the results of the G7 with the results of the 5D with some
great L lenses.

Which is a totally unfair comparison. No wonder you're unsatisfied!

However - have you compared final prints - or are you pixel-peeping at 100% on your monitor? Many of the artifacts you seem concerned about are far less visible on a final print and may not be an issue.

I’m selling my G7. I would love to have a pocket camera, but I
don’t know if there is one I am going to really like.

Consider the upcoming Sigma DP1 - it's got a full frame sensor and raw output and is the size of a G7. But its only got a fixed 28mm (equivalent) lens and you can't change lenses. And it's expected to cost $800. But it should overcome your particular concerns.

 

[Leo]

I have posted reply to your post at
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1010&message=22522863
Leo

 

[drMichael]

The camera is what it is...a GREAT p/s and not a pro camera. In broad daylight with proper ISO, proper f stop and shutter speed, with IS , there should be no problem. Either the camera is a defective lemon, or there is a lack of understanding fundamentals vs hand tremor vs unrealistic expectations. Is Enrique suggesting a boycott? I didn't understand his reply.

 

[drMichael]

All true IF the Sigma has a good lens. It will also be f4.0 and I think no IS. That may be a problem for some.