PLEASE READ Voting is primitive

[ZipperZ]

Did anyone check out the CTF voting booth? I did, and it's
AWESOME!!! Please take a look everyone...and then see what you
think. (Go up toward the top of this thread to see the post that
says "Why not create a voting booth like ctf?) Someone did a great
job creating it...it really streamlines the voting process. Someone
with HTML knowledge (SFishy, perhaps, or ???) could probably create
a similar one (or get the template from the original creator?).
It's the best idea I've seen (or heard of) yet, as far as tallying
up the votes goes! Nee
-frankly, I'm tired of the amount of time it takes me to
vote...FWIW, I really take my time and go through several cycles of
narrowing down the entries until I get to my final choices.
-also, it's really hard to see all the entries, esp. with the
password protected now. I usually go to the edit gallery page, so I
can scroll up and down through all the entries...much faster and
easier. Of course, by this time, I've already seen the larger
versions, so this is more of a refresher.

Hi Nee,
I agree. Its slick. Very nice.

The only thing i dont like is how the amount of votes can be seen. I would perfer them to not be there so as not to influence or sway any votes.
A blank ballot with choices is best. IMO

--cheersZip - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -BFS: NOSticker Status: ON...but on upsidedownPie Chute: UnCorked Lens Cap: No dangle at any angle - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

 

[Shutter.]

Hi Mark,

As I've said in a couple previous posts, I think the problem is not in the number of submissions, its in the number of votes people make. If we only have to pick one favorite, its not so hard.

I still prefer to submit 3 photos. Heck, even as it is I wait until the end so I can submit my best photos. I took the last two photos I submitted almost a week ago but published them only a couple hours before the deadline. If we limit to one, on of two things will happen:

1. People will be swapping their photos waaaay more often, or
2. There will be few submissions until the end.

Guaranteed, this will happen. Then everyone will be complaining about all the movement in the gallery even more.

Jim

Back to the subject at hand......

I think limiting the entries to one photo per artist per gallery
(expo, elig, out takes) is a great start in streamlining this
voting and contest. I'm not sure I agree to limiting the voting to
ONE day though... I'm sure many STF members are as short on time in
their daily lives as I sometimes am.... unless we carry the voting
to a weekend day like a saturday or sunday following the end of the
entry post window. I still think it's not too much trouble to ask
artists to post their name with both their photo and their
thumbnail.... do you?

Last point: I do NOT envy those who have to compile, add up, and
sort out the votes in a system as you guys have devised here!
Ouch..... that must take an enormous amount of time. So thank you
Shay for the work you've put in on this.

Mark J.

That's about the best suggestion I've heard yet but wait.......

how about the winner of the contest be the proud new owner of a

2002 Jaguar, $500 worth of F707 accessories (there are more 707's
around here than you can count!)

Think that might increase participation in the challenges? LOL

Any thoughts?

Camera Slug

The following message was sent to me regarding the voting process.
I want everyone to know... this is not the first person to express
this view.... how unfortunate.

Mark,
I feel the same way, and I only put down the artist name, if it
appeared under the thumbnail...oh well! I clicked on the picture to
see it large, but did not notice the artist name there.

I'm not going to vote again, it took way too long last night, if my
vote doesn't count, it just doesn't count, I can live with that.

I still enjoyed the Challenge!

We have this great website / forum for photography
We have great photographers
Why do we have to vote in such a backward time consuming way??

If challenges are a large part of this forum .... and I feel as
though it is, then can't someone come up with a better faster way
to do the voting?

How about a REAL voting template??
How about artists names under the thumb... not just the image

I'm sorry to make so much of this but, it was my first vote and, it
really was a long drawn out process. In this fast paced
technilogical world we live in, this sure is a primitive way of
doing this.

Any suggestions? otherwise, you are likely going to be missing
voters / participants in your future challenges..... just look at
how the person expressed themself in the above message.

Have a great day... I'm outa here for now.

Mark J.
--
Mark J.

--Jim Fuglestad http://www.pbase.com/jfuglestad/galleries

 

[Mark J]

I KNOW I'm going to get in trouble for this but, oh well....here goes.....

My brother in law Pablo is a WHIZ with Html and, I bet you anything he could create what you are looking for in a voting booth.

BEG HIM> .... don't tell him I suggested YOU beg. LOL

He's semi retired now ....... time is a plenty!!!!!

DON"T tell him I said that either. LOL

A voting booth WHOOPIE !!!!!

Did anyone check out the CTF voting booth? I did, and it's
AWESOME!!! Please take a look everyone...and then see what you
think. (Go up toward the top of this thread to see the post that
says "Why not create a voting booth like ctf?) Someone did a great
job creating it...it really streamlines the voting process. Someone
with HTML knowledge (SFishy, perhaps, or ???) could probably create
a similar one (or get the template from the original creator?).
It's the best idea I've seen (or heard of) yet, as far as tallying
up the votes goes! Nee
-frankly, I'm tired of the amount of time it takes me to
vote...FWIW, I really take my time and go through several cycles of
narrowing down the entries until I get to my final choices.
-also, it's really hard to see all the entries, esp. with the
password protected now. I usually go to the edit gallery page, so I
can scroll up and down through all the entries...much faster and
easier. Of course, by this time, I've already seen the larger
versions, so this is more of a refresher.

--
my galleries are @: http://www.pbase.com/rdavis

 

[Mark J]

Zipperz...... I'm with you on your last comment about the invisible tally.

Anything one can do to keep the voting clean and sincere.... do it.

Did anyone check out the CTF voting booth? I did, and it's
AWESOME!!! Please take a look everyone...and then see what you
think. (Go up toward the top of this thread to see the post that
says "Why not create a voting booth like ctf?) Someone did a great
job creating it...it really streamlines the voting process. Someone
with HTML knowledge (SFishy, perhaps, or ???) could probably create
a similar one (or get the template from the original creator?).
It's the best idea I've seen (or heard of) yet, as far as tallying
up the votes goes! Nee
-frankly, I'm tired of the amount of time it takes me to
vote...FWIW, I really take my time and go through several cycles of
narrowing down the entries until I get to my final choices.
-also, it's really hard to see all the entries, esp. with the
password protected now. I usually go to the edit gallery page, so I
can scroll up and down through all the entries...much faster and
easier. Of course, by this time, I've already seen the larger
versions, so this is more of a refresher.

Hi Nee,
I agree. Its slick. Very nice.
The only thing i dont like is how the amount of votes can be seen.
I would perfer them to not be there so as not to influence or sway
any votes.
A blank ballot with choices is best. IMO

--
cheers
Zip
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
BFS: NO
Sticker Status: ON...but on upsidedown
Pie Chute: UnCorked
Lens Cap: No dangle at any angle
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

 

[Shutter.]

The following message was sent to me regarding the voting process.
I want everyone to know... this is not the first person to express
this view.... how unfortunate.

Mark,
I feel the same way, and I only put down the artist name, if it
appeared under the thumbnail...oh well! I clicked on the picture to
see it large, but did not notice the artist name there.

I'm not going to vote again, it took way too long last night, if my
vote doesn't count, it just doesn't count, I can live with that.

I still enjoyed the Challenge!

We have this great website / forum for photography
We have great photographers
Why do we have to vote in such a backward time consuming way??

If challenges are a large part of this forum .... and I feel as
though it is, then can't someone come up with a better faster way
to do the voting?

How about a REAL voting template??
How about artists names under the thumb... not just the image

I'm sorry to make so much of this but, it was my first vote and, it
really was a long drawn out process. In this fast paced
technilogical world we live in, this sure is a primitive way of
doing this.

Any suggestions? otherwise, you are likely going to be missing
voters / participants in your future challenges..... just look at
how the person expressed themself in the above message.

Theres always going to be "someone" not happy with the voting
process. We go thru this everytime at every challenge.
...not enough points to award...
...would like to award more photos...
...voting takes too long...
...lets post entries anonymously...no...lets not do that...
...lets post artists names on thumbnail..no..lets not and say we
did...
...the challenge is too short for working stiffs lke me...
...the challenge is too long...
etc..etc...etc....

vote points were lengthened in the last few challenges because
people complained about only having the ability to pick their 3
favs. Now everyone wants to go back to that original concept.

it will never end!

...im.....off to see the wizard....the wonderful wizard of oz....

--
cheers
Zip
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
BFS: NO
Sticker Status: ON...but on upsidedown
Pie Chute: UnCorked
Lens Cap: No dangle at any angle
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

--Jim Fuglestad http://www.pbase.com/jfuglestad/galleries

 

[Shutter.]

Hey Mark,

There are a lot of skilled people in this forum, and many have suggested moving the challenges off pbase, creating voting sites, Job even has created a new 707 forum. But mostly, we want to keep our allegiances to dpreview and pbase. Of course, if one was created, and it was good, I would be willing to try it, but I'm not one to encourage it necessarily.

Jim

My brother in law Pablo is a WHIZ with Html and, I bet you anything
he could create what you are looking for in a voting booth.

BEG HIM> .... don't tell him I suggested YOU beg. LOL

He's semi retired now ....... time is a plenty!!!!!

DON"T tell him I said that either. LOL

A voting booth WHOOPIE !!!!!

Did anyone check out the CTF voting booth? I did, and it's
AWESOME!!! Please take a look everyone...and then see what you
think. (Go up toward the top of this thread to see the post that
says "Why not create a voting booth like ctf?) Someone did a great
job creating it...it really streamlines the voting process. Someone
with HTML knowledge (SFishy, perhaps, or ???) could probably create
a similar one (or get the template from the original creator?).
It's the best idea I've seen (or heard of) yet, as far as tallying
up the votes goes! Nee
-frankly, I'm tired of the amount of time it takes me to
vote...FWIW, I really take my time and go through several cycles of
narrowing down the entries until I get to my final choices.
-also, it's really hard to see all the entries, esp. with the
password protected now. I usually go to the edit gallery page, so I
can scroll up and down through all the entries...much faster and
easier. Of course, by this time, I've already seen the larger
versions, so this is more of a refresher.

--
my galleries are @: http://www.pbase.com/rdavis

--Jim Fuglestad http://www.pbase.com/jfuglestad/galleries

 

[Mark J]

Thanks for the info Jim. I had no idea that "voting sites" even existed?

I know Pablo is not the only person skilled in Html.... he's probably the one with the most time on his hands right now.

Personally... I'd hate to see the voiting moved off site. I like the idea of having this all integrated the way it is.... that's how I feel.

The voting booth is very interesting though.

There are a lot of skilled people in this forum, and many have
suggested moving the challenges off pbase, creating voting sites,
Job even has created a new 707 forum. But mostly, we want to keep
our allegiances to dpreview and pbase. Of course, if one was
created, and it was good, I would be willing to try it, but I'm not
one to encourage it necessarily.

Jim

My brother in law Pablo is a WHIZ with Html and, I bet you anything
he could create what you are looking for in a voting booth.

BEG HIM> .... don't tell him I suggested YOU beg. LOL

He's semi retired now ....... time is a plenty!!!!!

DON"T tell him I said that either. LOL

A voting booth WHOOPIE !!!!!

Did anyone check out the CTF voting booth? I did, and it's
AWESOME!!! Please take a look everyone...and then see what you
think. (Go up toward the top of this thread to see the post that
says "Why not create a voting booth like ctf?) Someone did a great
job creating it...it really streamlines the voting process. Someone
with HTML knowledge (SFishy, perhaps, or ???) could probably create
a similar one (or get the template from the original creator?).
It's the best idea I've seen (or heard of) yet, as far as tallying
up the votes goes! Nee
-frankly, I'm tired of the amount of time it takes me to
vote...FWIW, I really take my time and go through several cycles of
narrowing down the entries until I get to my final choices.
-also, it's really hard to see all the entries, esp. with the
password protected now. I usually go to the edit gallery page, so I
can scroll up and down through all the entries...much faster and
easier. Of course, by this time, I've already seen the larger
versions, so this is more of a refresher.

--
my galleries are @: http://www.pbase.com/rdavis

--
Jim Fuglestad
http://www.pbase.com/jfuglestad/galleries

 

[Nee (Renee Davis)]

Jim, if you'll take a look at the ctf challenge site, you'll see that the voting booth IS accessed within their pbase gallery site! Nee

Hey Mark,

There are a lot of skilled people in this forum, and many have
suggested moving the challenges off pbase, creating voting sites,
Job even has created a new 707 forum. But mostly, we want to keep
our allegiances to dpreview and pbase. Of course, if one was
created, and it was good, I would be willing to try it, but I'm not
one to encourage it necessarily.

Jim--my galleries are @: http://www.pbase.com/rdavis

 

[Nee (Renee Davis)]

( http://www.liteserv.com/ctfvotebooth/ )

I forgot to include it in my last post. Sorry... Nee

Hey Mark,

There are a lot of skilled people in this forum, and many have
suggested moving the challenges off pbase, creating voting sites,
Job even has created a new 707 forum. But mostly, we want to keep
our allegiances to dpreview and pbase. Of course, if one was
created, and it was good, I would be willing to try it, but I'm not
one to encourage it necessarily.

Jim

--
my galleries are @: http://www.pbase.com/rdavis

--my galleries are @: http://www.pbase.com/rdavis

 

[Shutter.]

I was trolling through the canon site last night and saw that they were using it to vote. Went to check it out, but it was down. So, makes me think......

Hey Mark,

There are a lot of skilled people in this forum, and many have
suggested moving the challenges off pbase, creating voting sites,
Job even has created a new 707 forum. But mostly, we want to keep
our allegiances to dpreview and pbase. Of course, if one was
created, and it was good, I would be willing to try it, but I'm not
one to encourage it necessarily.

Jim

--
my galleries are @: http://www.pbase.com/rdavis

--Jim Fuglestad http://www.pbase.com/jfuglestad/galleries

 

[Shutter.]

Okay, yep, that's nice. Very.

I forgot to include it in my last post. Sorry... Nee

Hey Mark,

There are a lot of skilled people in this forum, and many have
suggested moving the challenges off pbase, creating voting sites,
Job even has created a new 707 forum. But mostly, we want to keep
our allegiances to dpreview and pbase. Of course, if one was
created, and it was good, I would be willing to try it, but I'm not
one to encourage it necessarily.

Jim

--
my galleries are @: http://www.pbase.com/rdavis

--
my galleries are @: http://www.pbase.com/rdavis

--Jim Fuglestad http://www.pbase.com/jfuglestad/galleries

 

[Mark J]

Nee..... or anybody for that matter, can you please answer the below question, I'm curious to know.......

Remember, I'm new to your forum but, I could have sworn there is a VOTE link already in place when viewing an image. My question is.....

What happens when you click on that link? I mean, what takes place aside from the loading of that page?

Does that link keep a running total of votes?
Does it keep any tabulations at all?

Thank you.
Mark J.

I forgot to include it in my last post. Sorry... Nee

Hey Mark,

There are a lot of skilled people in this forum, and many have
suggested moving the challenges off pbase, creating voting sites,
Job even has created a new 707 forum. But mostly, we want to keep
our allegiances to dpreview and pbase. Of course, if one was
created, and it was good, I would be willing to try it, but I'm not
one to encourage it necessarily.

Jim

--
my galleries are @: http://www.pbase.com/rdavis

--
my galleries are @: http://www.pbase.com/rdavis

 

[Mark J]

Hey shutter,

just backtrackikng on the posts I missed. You are absolutely right about one thing I get the drift on.....

No mater what you do, SOMEBODY is going to find something to complain about. It's the American way !! lol

My own suggestion would be after having read everybodys pet peeves on this.....

Each person picks a FIST, SECOND and THIRD place photo from each gallery. First place vote equals 4 points, second place 2 points, 3rd 1 point.

That should satisfy everybody's need to vote / select more than one image they like.... no? Also, keeps the point system EASY, uniform and maybe even easier / quicker to tally up?

The rest..... I give up. There have been so many variations on a theme on the other items, I guess I'd leave well enough alone on those points.

Thank you for contributing your opinion.... it's appreciated.

Mark J.

Hi Mark,

As I've said in a couple previous posts, I think the problem is
not in the number of submissions, its in the number of votes
people make. If we only have to pick one favorite, its not so hard.

I still prefer to submit 3 photos. Heck, even as it is I wait
until the end so I can submit my best photos. I took the last two
photos I submitted almost a week ago but published them only a
couple hours before the deadline. If we limit to one, on of two
things will happen:

1. People will be swapping their photos waaaay more often, or
2. There will be few submissions until the end.

Guaranteed, this will happen. Then everyone will be complaining
about all the movement in the gallery even more.

Jim

 

[Erik Madsen]

I guess I'll chime in.

I'm an award winning web applications developer, and recently stumbled into digital photography as a means of actually looking to find a hobby outside of my profession. I follow this board and pbase pretty close, and the clarity of what is lacking has forced me to break ground on a solution of my own.

I know you all are pretty dedicated to dpreview and pbase, and I had pretty much decided to not toot my own horn around here. However, in light of the recent events, I'm finding it harder and harder to keep my mouth shut. I hope I don't get kicked out of here for this next paragraph, I sure do like you guys and being part of the club.

I'm two short weeks away from having a fully-featured solution, with many of them based entirely on my experiences with STF. Since my solution will be partly commercial, and I'm not permitted to "drop my own name" around here without paying, I won't give more details. It actually kind sucks that I can't tell you more here, because I don't see how my site will conflict with dpreview other than a forums feature.

If anyone is interested in knowing more, just email me at [email protected] MadsenWeb Applications Developer http://www.lumiere.ws

 

[Shutter.]

I did like it when we voted that way. Either that or simpler.

Enjoyed the thread.

Jim

No mater what you do, SOMEBODY is going to find something to
complain about. It's the American way !! lol

My own suggestion would be after having read everybodys pet peeves
on this.....

Each person picks a FIST, SECOND and THIRD place photo from each
gallery. First place vote equals 4 points, second place 2 points,
3rd 1 point.
That should satisfy everybody's need to vote / select more than one
image they like.... no? Also, keeps the point system EASY, uniform
and maybe even easier / quicker to tally up?

The rest..... I give up. There have been so many variations on a
theme on the other items, I guess I'd leave well enough alone on
those points.

Thank you for contributing your opinion.... it's appreciated.

Mark J.

Hi Mark,

As I've said in a couple previous posts, I think the problem is
not in the number of submissions, its in the number of votes
people make. If we only have to pick one favorite, its not so hard.

I still prefer to submit 3 photos. Heck, even as it is I wait
until the end so I can submit my best photos. I took the last two
photos I submitted almost a week ago but published them only a
couple hours before the deadline. If we limit to one, on of two
things will happen:

1. People will be swapping their photos waaaay more often, or
2. There will be few submissions until the end.

Guaranteed, this will happen. Then everyone will be complaining
about all the movement in the gallery even more.

Jim

--Jim Fuglestad http://www.pbase.com/jfuglestad/galleries

 

[MickeyD]

I just have to add to Zipper's comment about seeing the vote counts and thinking this influences the voting.

What I find really different from any art competition I have been involved in is the posting of names with the photo. I realize the purpose is sharing of your work, but I think comments can be added without the photographers name being known. I even find myself being drawn to names I recognize, and I haven't been active in this Forum very long. To have a really fair voting process, it is my opinion that names should not be attached to photos for the Challenges, as well as opinions gathered by posting the photo in the forum before entering.

We have the weekly gallery and others for sharing and displaying of work with discussion, but since the Challanges are obviously competitive and taken seriously, I think it would be advantageous to everyone to treat them as such; keeping photographers anonymous for voting purposes. Comments should still be very much encouraged and welcome; but I agree with a previous post that said negative comments should be discouraged for the Challenges, as those will also sway votes.

Please...this just my opinion and NOT inflamed in any way. In the competitions I have been involved with, great pains are taken to choose judges who do not know the artists involved...hopefully adding another element of fairness.

This is not a matter of life and death...I just thought I'd throw it out there for consideration. I really think this is a great group of considerate and fair people. Just some food for thought as long as we're talking about revamping Challenges.
MickeyD

 

[Jimmy Chen]

If the CTF script creator is welling to host STF as well?

Why reinvent the wheel?

jc

 

[Nee (Renee Davis)]

Slug is the guy who runs pbase. He's very responsive to any questions. I got a personal response to a different question. You might try emailing him. This question of the vote button has been a bit of mystery to us all! Nee (sorry, wish I had more of an answer...)

Remember, I'm new to your forum but, I could have sworn there is a
VOTE link already in place when viewing an image. My question
is.....

What happens when you click on that link? I mean, what takes place
aside from the loading of that page?

Does that link keep a running total of votes?
Does it keep any tabulations at all?

Thank you.
Mark J.

I forgot to include it in my last post. Sorry... Nee

Hey Mark,

There are a lot of skilled people in this forum, and many have
suggested moving the challenges off pbase, creating voting sites,
Job even has created a new 707 forum. But mostly, we want to keep
our allegiances to dpreview and pbase. Of course, if one was
created, and it was good, I would be willing to try it, but I'm not
one to encourage it necessarily.

Jim

--
my galleries are @: http://www.pbase.com/rdavis

--
my galleries are @: http://www.pbase.com/rdavis

--my galleries are @: http://www.pbase.com/rdavis

 

[Nee (Renee Davis)]

Part of why pbase is so popular is because it's free (with donations accepted, of course). There is a lot of loyalty to Slug, who doesn't charge a dime (so far, it's run on donations and money out of his own pocket...but this may soon come to an end). I'm going to email you, but have a feeling I may be disappointed by the answer...hopefully not! Part of what makes this community work is the absence of commercialism. Nee

I guess I'll chime in.

I'm an award winning web applications developer, and recently
stumbled into digital photography as a means of actually looking to
find a hobby outside of my profession. I follow this board and
pbase pretty close, and the clarity of what is lacking has forced
me to break ground on a solution of my own.

I know you all are pretty dedicated to dpreview and pbase, and I
had pretty much decided to not toot my own horn around here.
However, in light of the recent events, I'm finding it harder and
harder to keep my mouth shut. I hope I don't get kicked out of
here for this next paragraph, I sure do like you guys and being
part of the club.

I'm two short weeks away from having a fully-featured solution,
with many of them based entirely on my experiences with STF. Since
my solution will be partly commercial, and I'm not permitted to
"drop my own name" around here without paying, I won't give more
details. It actually kind sucks that I can't tell you more here,
because I don't see how my site will conflict with dpreview other
than a forums feature.

If anyone is interested in knowing more, just email me at
[email protected].
--
Erik Madsen
Web Applications Developer
http://www.lumiere.ws

--my galleries are @: http://www.pbase.com/rdavis

 

[Nee (Renee Davis)]

I think the problem , however, is that we all want a little bit of recognition, even if we're not the top three vote getters! As long as ALL the points given are revealed and not just the top three, then most everyone will be fairly satisfied. I had a somewhat more complex system of scoring that I suggested (before you arrived) and it didn't gather much support. Simpler seems to be better (or at least more appealing to most everyone ;-) lol!). I think we are going through some growing pains , but hopefully, the end result will be a better voting and tracking system for our challenges. Nee

Hey shutter,
just backtrackikng on the posts I missed. You are absolutely right
about one thing I get the drift on.....

No mater what you do, SOMEBODY is going to find something to
complain about. It's the American way !! lol

My own suggestion would be after having read everybodys pet peeves
on this.....

Each person picks a FIST, SECOND and THIRD place photo from each
gallery. First place vote equals 4 points, second place 2 points,
3rd 1 point.
That should satisfy everybody's need to vote / select more than one
image they like.... no? Also, keeps the point system EASY, uniform
and maybe even easier / quicker to tally up?

The rest..... I give up. There have been so many variations on a
theme on the other items, I guess I'd leave well enough alone on
those points.

Thank you for contributing your opinion.... it's appreciated.

Mark J.

--my galleries are @: http://www.pbase.com/rdavis