Placement of main and fill light?

[Steve47416]

Hi,
I just got my two AB800 and two umbrellas. I read the posts on this site

and there are so many opinions as far as the placement of the main and fill light with the relationship to the subject. I have one white and one silver umbrellas. Can someone shed a "light" on the subject.
Thanks,
Steve Provisor

 

[Chuck Gardner]

Let's start basics for the key or main light. It's function is to create the shadows and the illusion of depth in our 2D medium. You get shadows by placing the key light in front and to the side of the subject.

The nose shadow is a good "telltale" or barometer of main light placement. For good 3D modelling you want the nose shadow to fall down and to the side opposite the light. Starting with the light about 45 degrees from the camera axis (imaginary line between the camera lens and the subject it is pointing at) and 12 or more inches above the subject is a good starting point.

Which side to put the light on? That depends on the pose (angle of the face as seen from the camera) and the desired lighting effect. It also depends on the person's features; most people have a "good" side.

Having the face straight ahead (full face) will produce similar (but opposite) lighting on the front of the face if you move the light from one side to the other (from the aforementioned 45 degree position). What does change is the side of the head which is in shadow. Thus, if a person has a "good" side (i.e., better than the other one) you'd want to put the key light on the good side and hide the "bad" side in the shadows. In general only people with narrow, very symetrical faces (e.g., models) look best full face.

The second basic pose is the 2/3 view. Here the subject turns their head sideways to the camera until the profile of the rear eye socket and cheekbone is visible. In otherwords you don't want to see much skin (i.e., the side of the face) behind the rear eye. You don't want to cut the eye in half either. With this pose which side the light is on makes a BIG difference.

If the subject is looking towards the key light it will fall on the front of the face and into both eyes, producing catchlight reflections of the light which give the eyes sparkle. The broad side of the face turned towards the camera falls into the shadows. Overall the 2/3 pose, combined with this "Short" lgihting on the face will make the face look much thinner than full face, especially for subjects with round face.

If the subject is looking away from the key light the broad side of the face, and the ear (if visible) but only half of the front of the face will be illuminated. This "broad" lighting makes the face look very wide and having half the face in shadow is not my idea of a good portrait.

Now for the fill. It's not rocket science. Its function is to lighten the shadows created by the key light to within the range the camera can record, and what looks natural. By changing the intensity of the fill relative to the key light (i.e. lighting ratio) you can alter the mood of the photo from dark and introspective (e.g., portrait of an old man or firefighter) to light and fresh (e.g., children or a bride).

The conventional, and some might say logical, place to locate the fill lght is next to the camera so it will fill all of the shadows the camera sees. One can also place a fill light on the side opposite the key light, but this may create secondary shadows or muddle the modeling of the features created by the key light. Since you are starting out, I'd suggest keeping it near the camera.

If you are using a reflector for fill, alone or to in addition to a fill light, it obviously must be positioned somewhere it can catch and reflect the key light. That means on the side opposite the key light, or a north-facing window if using daylight. If you start to get highlights from the fill panel in your shadows it is too close.

As for whether to use white or silver for the key and fill, it depends on the lighting effect you want. Bouncing into white, or shooting the flash through it, will produce softer highlights and shadows than the silver, which is more focused and specular.

The color of the background influences lighting. Its difficult to create a true high key with only two lights because one of them needs to be used to illminate the background. Even low key (dark field) photos benefit from having a separate light dedicated to controlling the appearance of the backdrop.

A fourth light on a boom over the subject, on the side opposite the key light is often used in portraits to create a highlight in the hair on the shadow side and provide enough rim light on the head and shoulders to separate a dark haired / clothed subject from a dark low key background.

Chuck Gardner

Hi,
I just got my two AB800 and two umbrellas. I read the posts on this
site
and there are so many opinions as far as the placement of the main
and fill light with the relationship to the subject. I have one
white and one silver umbrellas. Can someone shed a "light" on the
subject.
Thanks,
Steve Provisor

 

[Juli Valley]

Thanks, Chuck, for the good advice.

 

[Steve47416]

The nose shadow is a good "telltale" or barometer of main light
placement. For good 3D modelling you want the nose shadow to fall
down and to the side opposite the light. Starting with the light
about 45 degrees from the camera axis (imaginary line between the
camera lens and the subject it is pointing at) and 12 or more
inches above the subject is a good starting point.

Which side to put the light on? That depends on the pose (angle of
the face as seen from the camera) and the desired lighting effect.
It also depends on the person's features; most people have a "good"
side.

Having the face straight ahead (full face) will produce similar
(but opposite) lighting on the front of the face if you move the
light from one side to the other (from the aforementioned 45 degree
position). What does change is the side of the head which is in
shadow. Thus, if a person has a "good" side (i.e., better than the
other one) you'd want to put the key light on the good side and
hide the "bad" side in the shadows. In general only people with
narrow, very symetrical faces (e.g., models) look best full face.

The second basic pose is the 2/3 view. Here the subject turns
their head sideways to the camera until the profile of the rear eye
socket and cheekbone is visible. In otherwords you don't want to
see much skin (i.e., the side of the face) behind the rear eye.
You don't want to cut the eye in half either. With this pose which
side the light is on makes a BIG difference.

If the subject is looking towards the key light it will fall on the
front of the face and into both eyes, producing catchlight
reflections of the light which give the eyes sparkle. The broad
side of the face turned towards the camera falls into the shadows.
Overall the 2/3 pose, combined with this "Short" lgihting on the
face will make the face look much thinner than full face,
especially for subjects with round face.

If the subject is looking away from the key light the broad side of
the face, and the ear (if visible) but only half of the front of
the face will be illuminated. This "broad" lighting makes the
face look very wide and having half the face in shadow is not my
idea of a good portrait.

Now for the fill. It's not rocket science. Its function is to
lighten the shadows created by the key light to within the range
the camera can record, and what looks natural. By changing the
intensity of the fill relative to the key light (i.e. lighting
ratio) you can alter the mood of the photo from dark and
introspective (e.g., portrait of an old man or firefighter) to
light and fresh (e.g., children or a bride).

The conventional, and some might say logical, place to locate the
fill lght is next to the camera so it will fill all of the shadows
the camera sees. One can also place a fill light on the side
opposite the key light, but this may create secondary shadows or
muddle the modeling of the features created by the key light.
Since you are starting out, I'd suggest keeping it near the camera.

If you are using a reflector for fill, alone or to in addition to a
fill light, it obviously must be positioned somewhere it can catch
and reflect the key light. That means on the side opposite the key
light, or a north-facing window if using daylight. If you start to
get highlights from the fill panel in your shadows it is too close.

As for whether to use white or silver for the key and fill, it
depends on the lighting effect you want. Bouncing into white, or
shooting the flash through it, will produce softer highlights and
shadows than the silver, which is more focused and specular.

The color of the background influences lighting. Its difficult to
create a true high key with only two lights because one of them
needs to be used to illminate the background. Even low key (dark
field) photos benefit from having a separate light dedicated to
controlling the appearance of the backdrop.

A fourth light on a boom over the subject, on the side opposite the
key light is often used in portraits to create a highlight in the
hair on the shadow side and provide enough rim light on the head
and shoulders to separate a dark haired / clothed subject from a
dark low key background.

Chuck Gardner

Hi,
I just got my two AB800 and two umbrellas. I read the posts on this
site
and there are so many opinions as far as the placement of the main
and fill light with the relationship to the subject. I have one
white and one silver umbrellas. Can someone shed a "light" on the
subject.
Thanks,
Steve Provisor

Thanks Chuck,
I really appreciate you taking the time to explain.

Steve Provisor

 

[Khanh M]

Regards,
Khanh M

Random Shots I took: http://khanhmai.com/favorites/temp_web.html

 

[George F]

Chuck,

that was one of the best descriptions of lighting technique i have read. short, simple and too the point. thanks very much.

George F

 

[Jamie W]

Very well done Chuck!

--
Jamie W.

Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants to see us happy. -- Benjamin Franklin

 

[cleg]

Chuck,
that was one of the best descriptions of lighting technique i have
read. short, simple and too the point. thanks very much.

George F

 

[CincyJAS]

Chuck - Awesome Lighting 101 piece. Very helpful.

I am wondering, could you offer some tips for group shots? I have been shooting portraits for about a year and am going to attempt a group shot. I will be shooting 14 elementary girls in dance outfits. I'm thinking they will arranged as follows:

Front row: 5 across, sitting
Middle row: 4 across, kneeling
Back row: 5 across, standing

I have 3 main strobes/umbrellas available and one backdrop light.

Any suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks,
-CincyJAS

Let's start basics for the key or main light. It's function is to
create the shadows and the illusion of depth in our 2D medium. You
get shadows by placing the key light in front and to the side of
the subject.

 

[Chuck Gardner]

I've got a general tutorial posted on my web site at http://super.nova.org/PhotoClass which has a section on shooting groups. Caveat: It's actually a handout for a hands-on class I taught a couple years ago soon after getting my first digital so the photos I used for examples were what I had at hand.

As for:

Front row: 5 across, sitting
Middle row: 4 across, kneeling
Back row: 5 across, standing

Blah !!!! Boooringgggg... Get up high on a stepladder, arrange them in a circle like a Busby Berkley musical from the 1930's with upturned beaming faces and "ta da!!!" outstreatched arms. Or some variation on that theme which adds some fun and action to the picture.

Chuck Gardner

I am wondering, could you offer some tips for group shots? I have
been shooting portraits for about a year and am going to attempt a
group shot. I will be shooting 14 elementary girls in dance
outfits. I'm thinking they will arranged as follows:

Front row: 5 across, sitting
Middle row: 4 across, kneeling
Back row: 5 across, standing

I have 3 main strobes/umbrellas available and one backdrop light.

Any suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks,
-CincyJAS

Let's start basics for the key or main light. It's function is to
create the shadows and the illusion of depth in our 2D medium. You
get shadows by placing the key light in front and to the side of
the subject.

 

[Steve47416]

As for:

Front row: 5 across, sitting
Middle row: 4 across, kneeling
Back row: 5 across, standing

Blah !!!! Boooringgggg... Get up high on a stepladder, arrange
them in a circle like a Busby Berkley musical from the 1930's with
upturned beaming faces and "ta da!!!" outstreatched arms. Or some
variation on that theme which adds some fun and action to the
picture.

Chuck Gardner

I am wondering, could you offer some tips for group shots? I have
been shooting portraits for about a year and am going to attempt a
group shot. I will be shooting 14 elementary girls in dance
outfits. I'm thinking they will arranged as follows:

Front row: 5 across, sitting
Middle row: 4 across, kneeling
Back row: 5 across, standing

I have 3 main strobes/umbrellas available and one backdrop light.

Any suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks,
-CincyJAS

Let's start basics for the key or main light. It's function is to
create the shadows and the illusion of depth in our 2D medium. You
get shadows by placing the key light in front and to the side of
the subject.

Hi Chuck,

Looks like a lot of folks are enjoying your lighting 101. I see that you are local. I am in Fairfax VA. Do you know any local courses for studio lighting?
BTW do you teach studio lighting?
Thanks,
Steve Provisor

 

[Chuck Gardner]

Hi Chuck,
Looks like a lot of folks are enjoying your lighting 101.

Maybe because they discover good lighting doesn't have to be rocket science:

1) Want people to notice your subject's face? Shine a spotlight on it and eliminate all other distractions.

2) How to get light on your subject's face? Make sure the key light is in front of them and they are looking towards it.

3) Want to eliminate weird double shadows and the scary appearance they create? Keep the fill near the camera so it cancels ALL the shadows from the key light THE CAMERA SEES, and doesn't create any of its own.

I see
that you are local. I am in Fairfax VA. Do you know any local
courses for studio lighting?

No, don't know of any. but then again I haven't been looking.

BTW do you teach studio lighting?

Only the basics and only on the internet.... Though I did teach a couple general photography classes a couple years ago when I was working in the Philippines.

Chuck Gardner

 

[shanstu70]

--
Shannon

 

[CincyJAS]

As for:

Front row: 5 across, sitting
Middle row: 4 across, kneeling
Back row: 5 across, standing

Blah !!!! Boooringgggg... Get up high on a stepladder, arrange
them in a circle like a Busby Berkley musical from the 1930's with
upturned beaming faces and "ta da!!!" outstreatched arms. Or some
variation on that theme which adds some fun and action to the
picture.

Chuck Gardner

Thanks for link, Chuck. You have some awesome work out there!

I was only doing what had been done before, so you are correct - Booooorringgg! I'll have to try your idea.

However, I'm still wondering how many lights you would use for this?

I have (2) 120w/s strobes and (1) 220w/s strobe. Any ideas are greatly appreciated.

-CincyJAS

 

[Steve47416]

Hi Chuck,
Looks like a lot of folks are enjoying your lighting 101.

Maybe because they discover good lighting doesn't have to be rocket
science:

1) Want people to notice your subject's face? Shine a spotlight
on it and eliminate all other distractions.

2) How to get light on your subject's face? Make sure the key
light is in front of them and they are looking towards it.

3) Want to eliminate weird double shadows and the scary appearance
they create? Keep the fill near the camera so it cancels ALL the
shadows from the key light THE CAMERA SEES, and doesn't create any
of its own.

I see
that you are local. I am in Fairfax VA. Do you know any local
courses for studio lighting?

No, don't know of any. but then again I haven't been looking.

BTW do you teach studio lighting?

Only the basics and only on the internet.... Though I did teach a
couple general photography classes a couple years ago when I was
working in the Philippines.

Chuck Gardner

Thanks.
Steve Provisor

 

[Chirebel]

Chuck,
that was one of the best descriptions of lighting technique i have
read. short, simple and too the point. thanks very much.

George F

 

[chrisbruno]

The nose shadow is a good "telltale" or barometer of main light
placement. For good 3D modelling you want the nose shadow to fall
down and to the side opposite the light. Starting with the light
about 45 degrees from the camera axis (imaginary line between the
camera lens and the subject it is pointing at) and 12 or more
inches above the subject is a good starting point.

Which side to put the light on? That depends on the pose (angle of
the face as seen from the camera) and the desired lighting effect.
It also depends on the person's features; most people have a "good"
side.

Having the face straight ahead (full face) will produce similar
(but opposite) lighting on the front of the face if you move the
light from one side to the other (from the aforementioned 45 degree
position). What does change is the side of the head which is in
shadow. Thus, if a person has a "good" side (i.e., better than the
other one) you'd want to put the key light on the good side and
hide the "bad" side in the shadows. In general only people with
narrow, very symetrical faces (e.g., models) look best full face.

The second basic pose is the 2/3 view. Here the subject turns
their head sideways to the camera until the profile of the rear eye
socket and cheekbone is visible. In otherwords you don't want to
see much skin (i.e., the side of the face) behind the rear eye.
You don't want to cut the eye in half either. With this pose which
side the light is on makes a BIG difference.

If the subject is looking towards the key light it will fall on the
front of the face and into both eyes, producing catchlight
reflections of the light which give the eyes sparkle. The broad
side of the face turned towards the camera falls into the shadows.
Overall the 2/3 pose, combined with this "Short" lgihting on the
face will make the face look much thinner than full face,
especially for subjects with round face.

If the subject is looking away from the key light the broad side of
the face, and the ear (if visible) but only half of the front of
the face will be illuminated. This "broad" lighting makes the
face look very wide and having half the face in shadow is not my
idea of a good portrait.

Now for the fill. It's not rocket science. Its function is to
lighten the shadows created by the key light to within the range
the camera can record, and what looks natural. By changing the
intensity of the fill relative to the key light (i.e. lighting
ratio) you can alter the mood of the photo from dark and
introspective (e.g., portrait of an old man or firefighter) to
light and fresh (e.g., children or a bride).

The conventional, and some might say logical, place to locate the
fill lght is next to the camera so it will fill all of the shadows
the camera sees. One can also place a fill light on the side
opposite the key light, but this may create secondary shadows or
muddle the modeling of the features created by the key light.
Since you are starting out, I'd suggest keeping it near the camera.

If you are using a reflector for fill, alone or to in addition to a
fill light, it obviously must be positioned somewhere it can catch
and reflect the key light. That means on the side opposite the key
light, or a north-facing window if using daylight. If you start to
get highlights from the fill panel in your shadows it is too close.

As for whether to use white or silver for the key and fill, it
depends on the lighting effect you want. Bouncing into white, or
shooting the flash through it, will produce softer highlights and
shadows than the silver, which is more focused and specular.

The color of the background influences lighting. Its difficult to
create a true high key with only two lights because one of them
needs to be used to illminate the background. Even low key (dark
field) photos benefit from having a separate light dedicated to
controlling the appearance of the backdrop.

A fourth light on a boom over the subject, on the side opposite the
key light is often used in portraits to create a highlight in the
hair on the shadow side and provide enough rim light on the head
and shoulders to separate a dark haired / clothed subject from a
dark low key background.

Chuck Gardner

Hi,
I just got my two AB800 and two umbrellas. I read the posts on this
site
and there are so many opinions as far as the placement of the main
and fill light with the relationship to the subject. I have one
white and one silver umbrellas. Can someone shed a "light" on the
subject.
Thanks,
Steve Provisor

 

[A.J. Grossman III]

Placement of your lights will depend upon your subject. You do not mention what you are planning to shoot/light. People, glass, metal, fowers, smooth items, shiny items, textured items, dark subjects, white subjects.

Your question is just too general to answer effectively.

Good luck.

Hi,
I just got my two AB800 and two umbrellas. I read the posts on this
site
and there are so many opinions as far as the placement of the main
and fill light with the relationship to the subject. I have one
white and one silver umbrellas. Can someone shed a "light" on the
subject.
Thanks,
Steve Provisor

--
A.J.
http://www.ag3photography.com

 

[lcmacedo]

Check out this link:
http://groups.msn.com/Asktheoleproaboutphotography/joezeltsman.msnw
You just can't go wrong with Zeltsman's freat lessons!
Have fun!

... Lucas

 

[Rick Niles]

The nose shadow is a good "telltale" or barometer of main light
placement. For good 3D modelling you want the nose shadow to fall
down and to the side opposite the light. Starting with the light
about 45 degrees from the camera axis (imaginary line between the
camera lens and the subject it is pointing at) and 12 or more
inches above the subject is a good starting point.

Which side to put the light on? That depends on the pose (angle of
the face as seen from the camera) and the desired lighting effect.
It also depends on the person's features; most people have a "good"
side.

Having the face straight ahead (full face) will produce similar
(but opposite) lighting on the front of the face if you move the
light from one side to the other (from the aforementioned 45 degree
position). What does change is the side of the head which is in
shadow. Thus, if a person has a "good" side (i.e., better than the
other one) you'd want to put the key light on the good side and
hide the "bad" side in the shadows. In general only people with
narrow, very symetrical faces (e.g., models) look best full face.

The second basic pose is the 2/3 view. Here the subject turns
their head sideways to the camera until the profile of the rear eye
socket and cheekbone is visible. In otherwords you don't want to
see much skin (i.e., the side of the face) behind the rear eye.
You don't want to cut the eye in half either. With this pose which
side the light is on makes a BIG difference.

If the subject is looking towards the key light it will fall on the
front of the face and into both eyes, producing catchlight
reflections of the light which give the eyes sparkle. The broad
side of the face turned towards the camera falls into the shadows.
Overall the 2/3 pose, combined with this "Short" lgihting on the
face will make the face look much thinner than full face,
especially for subjects with round face.

If the subject is looking away from the key light the broad side of
the face, and the ear (if visible) but only half of the front of
the face will be illuminated. This "broad" lighting makes the
face look very wide and having half the face in shadow is not my
idea of a good portrait.

Now for the fill. It's not rocket science. Its function is to
lighten the shadows created by the key light to within the range
the camera can record, and what looks natural. By changing the
intensity of the fill relative to the key light (i.e. lighting
ratio) you can alter the mood of the photo from dark and
introspective (e.g., portrait of an old man or firefighter) to
light and fresh (e.g., children or a bride).

The conventional, and some might say logical, place to locate the
fill lght is next to the camera so it will fill all of the shadows
the camera sees. One can also place a fill light on the side
opposite the key light, but this may create secondary shadows or
muddle the modeling of the features created by the key light.
Since you are starting out, I'd suggest keeping it near the camera.

If you are using a reflector for fill, alone or to in addition to a
fill light, it obviously must be positioned somewhere it can catch
and reflect the key light. That means on the side opposite the key
light, or a north-facing window if using daylight. If you start to
get highlights from the fill panel in your shadows it is too close.

As for whether to use white or silver for the key and fill, it
depends on the lighting effect you want. Bouncing into white, or
shooting the flash through it, will produce softer highlights and
shadows than the silver, which is more focused and specular.

The color of the background influences lighting. Its difficult to
create a true high key with only two lights because one of them
needs to be used to illminate the background. Even low key (dark
field) photos benefit from having a separate light dedicated to
controlling the appearance of the backdrop.

A fourth light on a boom over the subject, on the side opposite the
key light is often used in portraits to create a highlight in the
hair on the shadow side and provide enough rim light on the head
and shoulders to separate a dark haired / clothed subject from a
dark low key background.

Chuck Gardner

Hi,
I just got my two AB800 and two umbrellas. I read the posts on this
site
and there are so many opinions as far as the placement of the main
and fill light with the relationship to the subject. I have one
white and one silver umbrellas. Can someone shed a "light" on the
subject.
Thanks,
Steve Provisor