Pixels for Geeks: A peek inside Nikon’s super-secret sensor design lab

[A Owens]

The timing of this article is interesting, too. Why now? After decades of being business? Maybe trying to hype their upcoming mirrorless cameras?

I think so. The fact they use third party sensors has been a source of shame for Nikon for some time, and they are often intentionally misleading in their claims about "designing" their own sensors. If the rumours of the upcoming mirrorless are true, then Nikon will soon be directly competing with Sony FE for the first time so they need to try even harder to differentiate their sensors from Sony. Obviously the "article" is nothing more than a puff piece to help push the narrative that Nikon sensors are special and unique, but it is interesting to see how the Nikon faithful blindly accept it as fact because it tells them what they want to hear.

What a silly notion. There is no shame in strategic sourcing strategies. All major companies do it. Take Sony, the target of your infatuation. Is the fact that they knew nothing of lenses and had to turn to Zeiss a source of shame? Is the fact that they had limited sensor knowledge and had to acquire Aptina and a bunch of others a source of shame? Is the fact they knew nothing about cameras and had to buy Minolta a source of shame? Of course not.

I just hope for the sake of their shareholders and long-suffering customers that they can make a positive return some day on their huge investment.

 

[Dibyendu Majumdar]

Hi,

I read the article and it is nicely written.

We already know from Nikon's constant patent applications related to sensors that they spend a lot of R&D on sensors. I think therefore the truth of the overall point being made in the article is not an issue.

My criticisms are:

1. Nikon have told Dave very little (at least from what I can see). It seems the only stuff they showed Dave were to do with testing and micro lenses.

2. Dave tends to add a lot of stuff / including diagrams etc. that are his own. This gives the impression that Nikon has told him all that but I don't think so. Dave does attribute all the drawings etc. but a lot of the text is his own I believe.

So overall a fine article by Dave Etchells on sensor design, but tells very little about Nikon's sensor design process.

Regards

Dibyendu

 

[peripheralfocus]

However, not many of Nikon's cameras (currently just 2, or maybe 1, depending on what's actually still in production.) have Nikon designed sensors.

Bob, if you've had a chance to read the article at Imaging Resource, I'm curious if anything in it surprised you related to the sensor group at Nikon and what kinds of things they're doing?

 

[bobn2]

However, not many of Nikon's cameras (currently just 2, or maybe 1, depending on what's actually still in production.) have Nikon designed sensors.

Bob, if you've had a chance to read the article at Imaging Resource, I'm curious if anything in it surprised you related to the sensor group at Nikon and what kinds of things they're doing?

The parts of sensor design itself are very generic and really gives no information whatsoever on what the Nikon team is doing. A lot of it is Dave Etchells creating a narrative to obscure what he's said in the past. For instance, he frequently talks about the D850 sensor as though Nikon's design team did the detail design. They didn't, it's a Sony design (and you can't just swap Nikon pixels into a Sony column ADC arrangement). Same for his spurious mention of there being a separate design team for the D7500 sensor. That just stretched credulity. We know it's the same part as the D500 sensor and was designed by Sony SS (though almost certainly to a nikon commission and exclusively for Nikon's use). So, by and large, for people who knew the generic stuff anyway, it's not very informative. The parts on Nikon's testing (which I'm sure is applied to all their sensors) are informative and of interest.

 

[Iliah Borg]

The parts on Nikon's testing (which I'm sure is applied to all their sensors) are informative and of interest.

Yes. Though it seems like they dusted off some equipment, or used a setup from a repair facility for "RGB testing" - it is wb pre-conditioning setup from D2X times, something like CCS TH2 controlled by 4-channel PD2-30xx-4 https://www.ccs-grp.com/products/model/3259

 

[bobn2]

The parts on Nikon's testing (which I'm sure is applied to all their sensors) are informative and of interest.

Yes. Though it seems like they dusted off some equipment, or used a setup from a repair facility for "RGB testing" - it is wb pre-conditioning setup from D2X times, something like CCS TH2 controlled by 4-channel PD2-30xx-4 https://www.ccs-grp.com/products/model/3259

That's funny. Looks like Dave Echells was fed a line and swallowed it. On the whole, though, it's a good primer as to how sensors work. It could just have done without the spin from Nikon's PR department which was, frankly, irrelevant to most of the article.

 

[Iliah Borg]

On the whole, though, it's a good primer as to how sensors work.

Very much so. IMHO especially if one reads the discussion, most notably the posts made by DrJon

It could just have done without the spin from Nikon's PR department which was, frankly, irrelevant to most of the article.

I think another positive side is that the article proves Nikon's capability of design, including QA and QC. It may also have the goal of proving Nikon are not helpless without SONY sensor design, demonstrating it not just to Nikon users, but to SONY themselves. It may be some "grand" politics - thing I never understood, and careful not to have opinion of

 

[bobn2]

On the whole, though, it's a good primer as to how sensors work.

Very much so. IMHO especially if one reads the discussion, most notably the posts made by DrJon

It could just have done without the spin from Nikon's PR department which was, frankly, irrelevant to most of the article.

I think another positive side is that the article proves Nikon's capability of design, including QA and QC. It may also have the goal of proving Nikon are not helpless without SONY sensor design, demonstrating it not just to Nikon users, but to SONY themselves. It may be some "grand" politics - thing I never understood, and careful not to have opinion of

It's been very clear that Nikon hasn't been helpless without Sony sensor design since the days of the D2H, and I think that they have made that strategic decision to retain an independent capability since. Personally, I think it's a sensible strategy. In the scale of things, maintaining a sensor design capability doesn't cost so much, and it always opens their options, as well as, as you hint, keeping Sony honest. I think also it is a lot about company morale. They know that they can do everything, even if they choose not to. (I noted in the article that DE's obfuscation also extended to the 'EXPEED' which was spuriously claimed as an in-house development, when it's well known to be down to Socionext.

 

[Iliah Borg]

On the whole, though, it's a good primer as to how sensors work.

Very much so. IMHO especially if one reads the discussion, most notably the posts made by DrJon

Forgot to mention ZM

It could just have done without the spin from Nikon's PR department which was, frankly, irrelevant to most of the article.

I think another positive side is that the article proves Nikon's capability of design, including QA and QC. It may also have the goal of proving Nikon are not helpless without SONY sensor design, demonstrating it not just to Nikon users, but to SONY themselves. It may be some "grand" politics - thing I never understood, and careful not to have opinion of

It's been very clear that Nikon hasn't been helpless without Sony sensor design since the days of the D2H, and I think that they have made that strategic decision to retain an independent capability since. Personally, I think it's a sensible strategy. In the scale of things, maintaining a sensor design capability doesn't cost so much, and it always opens their options, as well as, as you hint, keeping Sony honest. I think also it is a lot about company morale. They know that they can do everything, even if they choose not to. (I noted in the article that DE's obfuscation also extended to the 'EXPEED' which was spuriously claimed as an in-house development, when it's well known to be down to Socionext.

I should have said "proving / reminding"

Yes, EXPEED is another point of concern. It is usual that PR stunts being overdone defeat the purpose.

 

[bobn2]

On the whole, though, it's a good primer as to how sensors work.

Very much so. IMHO especially if one reads the discussion, most notably the posts made by DrJon

Forgot to mention ZM

As he said, "As an electronic engineer I wouldn't buy this PR stuff...".

I'm as much a Nikon fan as anyone, but swallowing 'this PR stuff' whole simply is not good journalism.

 

[Iliah Borg]

On the whole, though, it's a good primer as to how sensors work.

Very much so. IMHO especially if one reads the discussion, most notably the posts made by DrJon

Forgot to mention ZM

As he said, "As an electronic engineer I wouldn't buy this PR stuff...".

Don't you think for a minute I don't know what I was reading

However I see it like this: you lose some, you win some. I think this article is useful, but not as useful as it could be.

I'm as much a Nikon fan as anyone, but swallowing 'this PR stuff' whole simply is not good journalism.

There is a reason why Nikon haven't invited somebody like you or me to write about their sensor development

 

[M Lammerse]

Hi,

I read the article and it is nicely written.

We already know from Nikon's constant patent applications related to sensors that they spend a lot of R&D on sensors. I think therefore the truth of the overall point being made in the article is not an issue.

My criticisms are:

1. Nikon have told Dave very little (at least from what I can see). It seems the only stuff they showed Dave were to do with testing and micro lenses.

2. Dave tends to add a lot of stuff / including diagrams etc. that are his own. This gives the impression that Nikon has told him all that but I don't think so. Dave does attribute all the drawings etc. but a lot of the text is his own I believe.

So overall a fine article by Dave Etchells on sensor design, but tells very little about Nikon's sensor design process.

Regards

Dibyendu

Like visiting a five star restaurants' kitchen but not able to see the recipe...sounds logic in a way as the title says, a peek inside. It has all to stay super secret... ;-)

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