Pentax problems

[Gio 645]

So it's ok for Pentax to release a flawed product and early buyers are there to find the problems? What utter, foolish rot.

Jeremy,
I usually agree with you but in this case you are wrong.

The problem here is that a forum member uses multiply accounts in order to promote his agenda.

Maybe Gazooma have some valid points (not often IMO) but the end does not justify the means.
--
Giorgos

 

[jthommo101]

Think you missed the point of Jan's post Thommo, he wasn't saying it was ok for Pentax to release a flawed product - just that if there are problems early adopters are likely to find them.

It's a post from the troll Gazooma, Jim, not from Jan.

MFZoom seems to be using his post to point out to newbies to the forum the bit about Roland... ie that he's a Pentax defender. Not sure Jan would be happy with his post being used for that purpose.

--
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/jamesverhoeven
http://community.webshots.com/user/jimbob_productions

--
Thommo
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jthommo101/

 

[Gio 645]

BTW Peter Fang the OP of the "stain issue" thread has already started a second thread because the first one reached 150 posts.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=37101106

Is a third thread necessary?
--
Giorgos

 

[Tan68]

i don't think it is okay for early buyers to be bitten. i don't think early buyers are there only to find problems for me.

So it's ok for Pentax to release a flawed product and early buyers are there to find the problems? What utter, foolish rot.

so, i would agree that is rot. or maybe i misunderstand your post? i don't think Jan means this about early buyers, but it seems a few here do... certainly someone who buys first will experience any troubles first. but, that is not the function of an early buyer.

no, if something is problematic, it is fine to make people aware. however, the message in this thread seems to be "don't buy early or you will become bitten" basically because you bought before it was prudent. this i do not agree with.

i don't think the Nikon people who have bought the D7000 with whatever trouble it has/had were foolish and i don't think the K5 buyers are, either. from some of the things that have been written about "early adopters" just being cannon fodder, i can understand how some may feel a bit upset. i also realise you are not calling them foolish in your post.

 

[onesidedcoin]

Disappointment is the price one pays for expecting perfection in an imperfect world.

Most of these items are tissue issues for some to cry about or for those with out a life to get on a soap box and shout out to the world their importance.

If you can’t afford the risk to your ego in having to return a product and deal with the stress confronting someone who has the power to resolve it there always activities like watching grass grow.

--
Dave

 

[Tan68]

although the OP references that thread, i don't think this is a thread about that particular problem. i think this is a thread to "thank them for doing beta testing for us and paying big to do so, while risking problems..."

surely the comment must be taken at face value, but some may see it as a slightly veiled insult. seems the warning to avoid "beta testing" is a general warning rather than a warning about the specific issue you reference.

BTW Peter Fang the OP of the "stain issue" thread has already started a second thread because the first one reached 150 posts.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=37101106

Is a third thread necessary?
--
Giorgos

 

[jthommo101]

Starting this thread is ridiculous, in my opinion.

Threads linking to threads serve no purpose. Should I start a thread linking to this thread?

Sheesh.

In short some people want a Pentax Problems thread as a "sticky" and linking a saturated thread in to the other is their way of doing it.

And some, like this poster, quote their own words, posted by their alter ego, giving the impression they are a neutral party pointing to wise words, when it's actually nothing more than self aggrandizing.

Quite true Terry. Pentax_Prime has a cute one he calls QuadBrazil that he seems to use for praise and to bump his threads. Some people should get off the internet and get a life.

--
Thommo
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jthommo101/

 

[topstuff]

The product isn't flawed. There is apparently a situation where some people (currently a small number) have some muck on their sensors. It could be a problem at Sony or Pentax.

Pentax make 18000 K5s a month Not everyone is affected.
Those that are affected will be sorted out.

The product is fantastic. It seems some cameras (perhaps a small number, we don't know) have a problem.

Dell and Apple have computers that arrive D.O.A. A percentage of LCD screens have to be returned with bad pixels. It happens.

The hysteria some people seem to want to create is ridiculous. Pathetic even.

I have a K5. It is not affected. My brother plans to get one next week

He's not going to let Internet shrieking stop him. And nor should he.

If he is unlucky and gets one with a mark on the sensor he will just swap it for one that does not. Simple.

So it's ok for Pentax to release a flawed product and early buyers are there to find the problems? What utter, foolish rot.

Jeremy,
I usually agree with you but in this case you are wrong.

The problem here is that a forum member uses multiply accounts in order to promote his agenda.

Maybe Gazooma have some valid points (not often IMO) but the end does not justify the means.
--
Giorgos

 

[TMalford]

Starting this thread is ridiculous, in my opinion.

Threads linking to threads serve no purpose. Should I start a thread linking to this thread?

Sheesh.

In short some people want a Pentax Problems thread as a "sticky" and linking a saturated thread in to the other is their way of doing it.

And some, like this poster, quote their own words, posted by their alter ego, giving the impression they are a neutral party pointing to wise words, when it's actually nothing more than self aggrandizing.

Quite true Terry. Pentax_Prime has a cute one he calls QuadBrazil that he seems to use for praise and to bump his threads. Some people should get off the internet and get a life.

I'm not a fan of his, nor am I a fan of all this extremism. It seems people are just jumping up and down and screaming their heads off from the far right and left, creating such turmoil that the moderates have no chance at being heard. When/if there are issues, this behavior is not what solves them, in my opinion.

Cooler heads never have a chance. It's a frickin free for all. It's exactly why I'm not here much anymore.

 

[jm_mac]

Why can't DPReview have a votekick feature? It's been a staple of PC gaming for years, and allows the folks to ban (temporarily or permanently) disruptive players from a server.

If DPReview had it, we, as a commuity, can ban disruptive posters...

And yes, I know there is an ignore button. But it allows the dirsuptive persons to remain to the detriment of the overall community.

 

[merengues]

When this thread reaches 150 can we go out and take photos?

 

[Tan68]

i don't game and haven't ever heard of votekick.
a bit like being voted off the island, i guess..

i suppose they could do this. if the threshold is set properly, i imagine it would be unlikely enough people would band together to commit a malicious, undeserved banning. might have to try and control multiple accounts.. somehow... or the multi-acct-ppl might just create enough to go on a banning frenzy...

but, i kinda like the idea...

Why can't DPReview have a votekick feature? It's been a staple of PC gaming for years, and allows the folks to ban (temporarily or permanently) disruptive players from a server.

If DPReview had it, we, as a commuity, can ban disruptive posters...

And yes, I know there is an ignore button. But it allows the dirsuptive persons to remain to the detriment of the overall community.

 

[Tan68]

no, someone will just link to it
start it all again...
this new interlinking, cross-threading technology can not be un-discovered...

When this thread reaches 150 can we go out and take photos?

 

[neil holmes]

i suppose they could do this. if the threshold is set properly, i imagine it would be unlikely enough people would band together to commit a malicious, undeserved banning. might have to try and control multiple accounts.. somehow... or the multi-acct-ppl might just create enough to go on a banning frenzy...

but, i kinda like the idea...

Why can't DPReview have a votekick feature? It's been a staple of PC gaming for years, and allows the folks to ban (temporarily or permanently) disruptive players from a server.

If DPReview had it, we, as a commuity, can ban disruptive posters...

And yes, I know there is an ignore button. But it allows the dirsuptive persons to remain to the detriment of the overall community.

I hate the idea. I can see people being booted out of particular forums just because they use a different brand or because a popular person does not like them.... and more popular brands could eliminate those from smaller ones.

Since you do not need to own or use a camera to post here in any forum it is open to tribal warfare....then retaliative strikes....then preemptory strikes. Eventually nuclear war.

I would rather the mods got rid of some for repeated breach of the rules.

On second thoughts, OK can we have it but just for Gazooma?

neil
http://www.flickr.com/photos/26884588@N00/

 

[jm_mac]

It's exactly like being voted off the island, and it works very well. There are two ways to get banned from a gaming server (at least the ones I used to play on): 1) by the admin, and 2) by votekick. The first option doesn't seem to work here, because either the offending folks are pretty good at toeing the lines w.r.t. rules, or the admins don't monitor the forums strictly enough. If we had the second option, then the community could take care of it ourselves.

But you are correct, where to set the threshold for voting? On the small game servers I used to play on, there were never more than 20 or 30 players on a server and a simple majority could vote the person off. But here on DPReview, we could have the problem of people voting multiple times as you said. And judging by the stamina of the negative posters here, I would not put that beyond them.

The best thing would be some kind of IP address check for logging a valid vote. But what constitutes a "majority" of voters? What numerical threshold could be used to enable a ban? Any thoughts anyone?

i suppose they could do this. if the threshold is set properly, i imagine it would be unlikely enough people would band together to commit a malicious, undeserved banning. might have to try and control multiple accounts.. somehow... or the multi-acct-ppl might just create enough to go on a banning frenzy...

but, i kinda like the idea...

Why can't DPReview have a votekick feature? It's been a staple of PC gaming for years, and allows the folks to ban (temporarily or permanently) disruptive players from a server.

If DPReview had it, we, as a commuity, can ban disruptive posters...

And yes, I know there is an ignore button. But it allows the dirsuptive persons to remain to the detriment of the overall community.

 

[jm_mac]

I hate the idea. I can see people being booted out of particular forums just because they use a different brand or because a popular person does not like them.... and more popular brands could eliminate those from smaller ones.

Yes, this would be a problem. And the folks who are the worst problems would probably stoop to this level.

Since you do not need to own or use a camera to post here in any forum it is open to tribal warfare....then retaliative strikes....then preemptory strikes. Eventually nuclear war.

Sound like you used to be a gamer, as well.

I would rather the mods got rid of some for repeated breach of the rules.

I wholeheartedly agree, if the mods would just do their job the forums would be a much nicer place to spend time. I think I'll spend more time on the"other" forum...

 

[Gerry Winterbourne]

Starting this thread is ridiculous, in my opinion.

Threads linking to threads serve no purpose. Should I start a thread linking to this thread?

The original thread maxed out quickly and I missed it. By referring back to it I was alerted to a possible problem with my new K-5.

As it happens, I have been surprised to see in the first few hundred shots what looks very similar to, but not quite, a dust bunny a couple of times. Reading this thread I tested as described and, yes, my spot looks exactly as described. I can't remove it by the Dust Removal system, blowing or wet cleaning.

I now need to decide what to do about it (return or live with it) but at least I now know about it.

I have no sympathy with Gazooma and other people who perpetually complain about imagined or irrelevant problems but in this case I think they have done us a good turn.

--
Gerry


First camera 1953, first Pentax 1983, first DSLR 2006
http://www.pbase.com/gerrywinterbourne

 

[klavrack]

The product isn't flawed. There is apparently a situation where some people (currently a small number) have some muck on their sensors. It could be a problem at Sony or Pentax.

Pentax make 18000 K5s a month Not everyone is affected.
Those that are affected will be sorted out.

The product is fantastic. It seems some cameras (perhaps a small number, we don't know) have a problem.

Dell and Apple have computers that arrive D.O.A. A percentage of LCD screens have to be returned with bad pixels. It happens.

The hysteria some people seem to want to create is ridiculous. Pathetic even.

I have a K5. It is not affected. My brother plans to get one next week

He's not going to let Internet shrieking stop him. And nor should he.

If he is unlucky and gets one with a mark on the sensor he will just swap it for one that does not. Simple.

BINGO! If I was an early buyer and got one of the marked sensor, I would be irritated, but know this is an unpleasant fact of mass production. If I was a prospective buyer, I'd just give it a thorough check-up on delivery, like I would with any new camera. Which is exactly what I plan to do when (hopefully) the after-Christmas price drop kicks in. In the meantime, maybe Gazoo can drive down the price a little more for me ;-D

 

[Tan68]

i figure they know who is posting where.

it couldn't be based on a percentage of the entire DPR population; many rarely post or post outside their favorite forums.

maybe a running count of discrete posters in a forum. xx% of the number of individual posters for the last 30 days vote someone out...

then the offender could be banned only from that forum.

but, as neil holmes noted, the potential for misuse is staggering. for instance, we could pick a day and all troupe over to the Nikon forum, post once to become a discrete poster within the last 30 days, then just start voting against whoever we can... we would obliterate the D7000 forum. nothing but a wasteland populated by one lone poster asking how to set Auto-ISO. pure devastation...

can you imagine seeing all these immigrant posters... it would be like watching water rise as a tsunami approaches... you have time to think "i'm getting too old for this stuff" and BAN, there you went...

 

[rwl408]

Janneman02,

What is the problem? Why are you so unhappy when you are so lucky not to have this stained sensor problem? I have posted about my gratitude to early adopters before. It is on record. I pointed out that we should thank them for doing beta testing for us and paying big to do so, while risking problems... But I also pointed out the risk with early buying.

"Counter productive to Pentax"? I care more about customers more than the company when there are issues like SDM or stained sensors. Is that selfish? Whose side are you on? You work for Pentax?

I had tried to be helpful by pointing out problems and providing warnings. And in this case, I am trying to alert others, about the need to be open-minded, read the negative things, read Rice High's and whoever's criticisms and check them out first before rejecting everything "negative".

The occurence or problems is really strange, or coincidental. Everybody noticed however how the strongest defenders of Pentax happen to be the ones who never had a problem ever with their Pentax products?.. Raphael, you, John Dee, ...

Wanted to point this out to newbies, because there it could be important for them.
It is from a thread

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1036&message=37092371&changemode=1
that reached 150 posts and is closed.
--

The millions who make up the vast majority of DSLR users including many top photogs must be all dumb not to use Pentax.

It is a fact that every DSLR maker, who is serious about the business, monitors popular DSLR websites and forums. People just have to read between the lines and make their own judgement. For example, some claim to have all models and upgrade as soon as a new model comes out. I always read their comments with a grain of salt because it could be one of these three situation:

•pay one's hard-earn money for the camera(s)

•company-hired or affiliated and thus have access to all the camera models but may not actually own all of them, if at all

•competitors doing competition analysis

A big give-away of company-hired/afffiliated is when someone is not talking from the consumer's interest but instead urging people to "trust" the company or urging to give the company a free pass.

--
Rick