Pentax LX in Mirrorless

[kamerakiri]

Just a hypothetical question. If Pentax were to make mirrorless cameras inspired from its classic SLRs, would anyone be interested?

Kinda like Fuji X-T series, but full frame only.


Say a mirrorless Pentax inspired by L-X


Or a mirrorless version of K-1000, with good support for manual focus

Maybe a new mount will be needed, but a good adapter with backward compatibility can keep K mount viable.

Pentax DSLRs already have some presets like "Miyabi" and "Satobi" which fit in with retro vibe. Full disclosure: Pentax SLR owner. I don't own Pentax DSLR. If they made a mirrorless version kinda like old SLRs, it would really interest me.

 

[zakaria]

I would buy it .I see how beautiful nikon Zfc and know that Pentax can do it better.

 

[henricoo]

No, I don't think so. In fact I am sure about that.

The K1 is a great 36 MP FF that supports all my old and new K-glass, it only is a bit heavy.My KP is my compact alternative that works very fine specially with my compact M-lenses (M20, M28, M50, M85, M100, M135, M200). In fact the KP has a lot of genes from the LX, only a bit heavy for its size... ;-)

Even a very basic vintage K/M/L looking camera with K-mount cannot be ánd compact ánd FF. So it would be an stripped crop-camera that costs double the K70. There will only be a very small market for such a camera, so I think it will never appear.

We must be happy Pentax is still alive and accept it will launch cameras and lenses only in a very low frequency and only those that could be profitable. Fingers crossed it will hold on for some decades.

 

[grcolts]

Maybe

 

[James O'Neill]

Just a hypothetical question. If Pentax were to make mirrorless cameras inspired from its classic SLRs, would anyone be interested?

Maybe a new mount will be needed, but a good adapter with backward compatibility can keep K mount viable.

No

1. Pentax is now a brand of Ricoh. Ricoh have said the Pentax name is reserved for SLRs If someone wants to make a MILC which looks like a classic film camera they can put any name they like above the lens but the name won't be Pentax

2. You can have the K Mount, or you can have the smaller body which a MILC gives but you can't have both. Why would anyone buy a Ricoh MILC with an all new lens mount and initially no Lens support ? (See Pentax-Q) Would Ricoh join the L-Mount consortium ? Maybe. But a way of selling adapters to enable people to not purchase new lenses it doesn't look like a good business model.

3. Setting the shutter speed and ISO by taking your eye away from the viewfinder and looking at the top plate of the camera isn't ergonomically as good as the thumb/finger wheels we have now. . There is a term for these things https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skeuomorph

4. In the Pentax case all DA, D-FA and FA-J lenses omit the aperture control ring so they wouldn't work. You can't mount a DFA *85/ *50/ Ltd-21 on an LX.

5. The thickness of a DSLR compared with a film SLR is because with film there is very little behind the image plane. Not only is the sensor thicker than film but it is mounted on an image stabilization assembly on top of a mainboard. It also needs a bigger battery etc.

I love my Pentax film cameras, but they are staying on display rather than being used.

 

[RBIV]

Just a hypothetical question. If Pentax were to make mirrorless cameras inspired from its classic SLRs, would anyone be interested?

Kinda like Fuji X-T series, but full frame only.

Maybe a new mount will be needed, but a good adapter with backward compatibility can keep K mount viable.

Pentax DSLRs already have some presets like "Miyabi" and "Satobi" which fit in with retro vibe. Full disclosure: Pentax SLR owner. I don't own Pentax DSLR. If they made a mirrorless version kinda like old SLRs, it would really interest me.

I'd have to vote no on a mirrorless Pentax as well.

Disclosure here, I am a Zfc owner and I like the camera a lot.

I do wish Pentax would make a more "retro" looking DSLR along the lines of the Zfc because I like OVFs, and I think Pentax could improve the ergonomics. I don't think they will. And I'll admit, my KP comes close enough to make me happy using it as well as the Zfc. But then, there is no KP anymore...

 

[Rudi]

Noway mirrorless. Just make it about 3mm thicker keep the SLR design and forgett about all that video and IBIS stuff and all the other gimmicks.

Therefore give it a reliable AF and a top notche prism VF, switchabel to an EVF instead of a display screen on the back.

(got too many of them good old PK lenses)

Rudi.

 

[Daniel Spiljar]

Just a hypothetical question. If Pentax were to make mirrorless cameras inspired from its classic SLRs, would anyone be interested?

Kinda like Fuji X-T series, but full frame only.

Maybe a new mount will be needed, but a good adapter with backward compatibility can keep K mount viable.

Pentax DSLRs already have some presets like "Miyabi" and "Satobi" which fit in with retro vibe. Full disclosure: Pentax SLR owner. I don't own Pentax DSLR. If they made a mirrorless version kinda like old SLRs, it would really interest me.

I am all for Pentax going mirrorless with good backwards compatibility options for old K-mount lenses. Unfortunately I cannot see them surviving without doing do.

But for retro design, no thanks. It puts completely artificial and unnecessary constraints on product design - why do modern mirrorless cameras have to look like rangefinders from 1950s or SLRs from 1970s, when the technology allows to experiment with completely unprecedented and innovative form factors?

Pentax could distinguish themselves in this precise field, in the times when nobody else wants to.

 

[KPM2]

Hello kamerakiri

I don't think that we get such compact body's until the batteries get smaller.

Pentax made the body of the KP smaller, but must used a smaller battery for that as in the other body's.....and got bashed because of the lower pictures count with this smaller battery. And compare this small batteries with the batteries of a LX. The LX batteries looks like nothing to them. So, so long the batteries get not smaller, we get no body's like a LX size.

best regards. KPM2

 

[kamerakiri]

The answers have been helpful to understand what current issues exist and why Pentax may not consider it as the best idea. I can also understand why people who appreciate extensive customizable buttons and good ergonomics may not want to straddle along a Pentax KP successor, just for looks.

I think K3 Mark III form factor is great. A KP form factor would impact the whole DSLR experience. Either Pentax should make a truly retro and thin but highly capable mirror less lineup, or they should continue making their excellent DSLRs. A juxtaposition of both might be more Frankenstein than cute.

 

[JeremieB]

The answers have been helpful to understand what current issues exist and why Pentax may not consider it as the best idea. I can also understand why people who appreciate extensive customizable buttons and good ergonomics may not want to straddle along a Pentax KP successor, just for looks.

I think K3 Mark III form factor is great. A KP form factor would impact the whole DSLR experience. Either Pentax should make a truly retro and thin but highly capable mirror less lineup, or they should continue making their excellent DSLRs. A juxtaposition of both might be more Frankenstein than cute.

I don't really understand nostalgia for old technology. I mean, I understand it if it's an object one bought a long time ago and kept preciously, why not, but I don't get why one would want something new with a look (and often bad or limited ergonomics and features) from the past.

I mean, if it's a passion for very simple cameras with stripped down controls, one can just buy a GoPro ? :-D

 

[Lahmajunior]

This proposal has been made repeatedly in this forum over the years. It's nice to see it pop up again. I would buy a mirrorless LX or K1000 in a heartbeat.

That said, every time I've raised this, Alex Sarbu always poo poos the idea, for X number of reasons, and he tends to echo Ricoh's positions. So, there you go. Not happening.

The least Ricoh could do is offer a KPII, which is the closest thing we've gotten to such a camera, albeit in DSLR form. I own a KP and nearly twenty manual k-mount lenses.

I mostly shoot Fuji now, but when it comes to low light and nighttime shooting, I still use my KP. I know a lot of other KP users who do the same and would welcome a refresh.

 

[DougOB]

This proposal has been made repeatedly in this forum over the years. It's nice to see it pop up again. I would buy a mirrorless LX or K1000 in a heartbeat.

That said, every time I've raised this, Alex Sarbu always poo poos the idea, for X number of reasons, and he tends to echo Ricoh's positions. So, there you go. Not happening.

The least Ricoh could do is offer a KPII, which is the closest thing we've gotten to such a camera, albeit in DSLR form. I own a KP and nearly twenty manual k-mount lenses.

I mostly shoot Fuji now, but when it comes to low light and nighttime shooting, I still use my KP. I know a lot of other KP users who do the same and would welcome a refresh.

If they ever did a KPii (not holding my breath) one thing they could do is get rid of the swapable grip and have a built-in grip. Even with the medium size grip (I know, many like the large) there might be enough room for a larger battery. Plus they could add the missing front IR receiver. Oh well...

Doug

 

[flektogon]

This proposal has been made repeatedly in this forum over the years. It's nice to see it pop up again. I would buy a mirrorless LX or K1000 in a heartbeat.

That said, every time I've raised this, Alex Sarbu always poo poos the idea, for X number of reasons, and he tends to echo Ricoh's positions. So, there you go. Not happening.

The least Ricoh could do is offer a KPII, which is the closest thing we've gotten to such a camera, albeit in DSLR form. I own a KP and nearly twenty manual k-mount lenses.

I mostly shoot Fuji now, but when it comes to low light and nighttime shooting, I still use my KP. I know a lot of other KP users who do the same and would welcome a refresh.

I would buy another (original) KP in a heartbeat! I still regret that I didn't buy two of them right the way :-( .

 

[kamerakiri]

The answers have been helpful to understand what current issues exist and why Pentax may not consider it as the best idea. I can also understand why people who appreciate extensive customizable buttons and good ergonomics may not want to straddle along a Pentax KP successor, just for looks.

I think K3 Mark III form factor is great. A KP form factor would impact the whole DSLR experience. Either Pentax should make a truly retro and thin but highly capable mirror less lineup, or they should continue making their excellent DSLRs. A juxtaposition of both might be more Frankenstein than cute.

I don't really understand nostalgia for old technology. I mean, I understand it if it's an object one bought a long time ago and kept preciously, why not, but I don't get why one would want something new with a look (and often bad or limited ergonomics and features) from the past.

I mean, if it's a passion for very simple cameras with stripped down controls, one can just buy a GoPro ? :-D

In this shrunken camera market, there seem to be only two ways to survive - compete to be the best or offer something different in a niche. There's a third route too - connect to the internet and bring an Android like open platform for cameras that allows third party app development and quick sharing. But Japanese companies are obstinate in not pursuing this so I'll disregard it.

Competing aggressively with CanikSony is a ship that sailed long ago for Pentax. So the other option is niche, which they already do well for DSLRs. I'm obviously not asking for a full replacement of DSLR lineup with mirror less. Just make a one line of simple full frame camera that is 24-30 Mp and six or seven small primes - 23/35/40/50/75/90. Like those small Voigtlanders.

Even a small company like Voigtlander has diversified from just M mount lenses to other mirrorless manufacturers, and now they even make APS-C lenses specially for Fuji.

Classic design has worked well for Fujfilm and Olympus Pen(E-P/PL) series. Classic design actually fits well with ergonomics of small primes. It is only with larger lenses that problems arise.

We also must see why manufacturers moved to mirrorless. Because it saves them money. It is actually much easier to make mirrorless cameras, compared to making a custom pentaprism and aligning the mirror etc perfectly. It makes cameras lighter, less complex, and latest sensors are fast enough to even forego mechanical shutter.

It takes very little extra R&D for Pentax to pull this - they have a production line, 90% of parts are same, an EVF can simply be bought from a vendor and the software already has a lot of features from other mirrorless cameras. If Ricoh GR can be successful, maybe a Pentax MILC Lx can be as well. But I guess it is not Pentax engineers but Ricoh management that ties their hands.

Pentax might have to look for another owner if they have to reinvent themselves(again!).

 

[flektogon]

The answers have been helpful to understand what current issues exist and why Pentax may not consider it as the best idea. I can also understand why people who appreciate extensive customizable buttons and good ergonomics may not want to straddle along a Pentax KP successor, just for looks.

I think K3 Mark III form factor is great. A KP form factor would impact the whole DSLR experience. Either Pentax should make a truly retro and thin but highly capable mirror less lineup, or they should continue making their excellent DSLRs. A juxtaposition of both might be more Frankenstein than cute.

I don't really understand nostalgia for old technology. I mean, I understand it if it's an object one bought a long time ago and kept preciously, why not, but I don't get why one would want something new with a look (and often bad or limited ergonomics and features) from the past.

I mean, if it's a passion for very simple cameras with stripped down controls, one can just buy a GoPro ? :-D

It takes very little extra R&D for Pentax to pull this - they have a production line, 90% of parts are same, an EVF can simply be bought from a vendor and the software already has a lot of features from other mirrorless cameras. If Ricoh GR can be successful, maybe a Pentax MILC Lx can be as well. But I guess it is not Pentax engineers but Ricoh management that ties their hands.

Pentax might have to look for another owner if they have to reinvent themselves(again!).

No, no, there is one cardinal "obstacle" to go mirror-less! And it is the K mount. Pentax will (they have to) stick with this mount forever! This is their the only way to survive! This is what makes them so unique! And this is what prevents them to go mirrorless. Unless they would want to repeat another K-01 fiasco :-( .

 

[Gylfi Magnusson]

Producing a mirrorless camera or DSLR that looks like the Pentax LX or K1000 is of course doable, although having a big LCD on the back would mean that there is a limit to the likeness. In theory they could skip the LCD in a MILC and only use an EVF but that would be a significant loss. They could probably make it reasonable close to the LX in weight (570 g), after all the K-01 is approximately the same weight. That said it is hard to see what the point would be, except to cater to the nostalgic crowd. I have had an LX for 40 years or so but still very much doubt that I would a digital camera based on it. It just would not be the same. The LX is a simple (by modern standards) camera, with two exposure modes, manual and aperture priority, and manual focus. The K1000 much the same, without aperture priority. When I want to go back to that world, I put a film in one my old cameras. A digital camera with those limitations would not really tempt me.

What I would like from Pentax is a K-1iii, with the improved focusing system and speed of the K3iii + better video and an updated sensor. That may be coming at some point although no promises have been made. I would also be first in line to buy an updated Q series body but I don't see that coming. Ricoh seems to have abandoned the Q and 645 series. If they want to resurrect something those camera lines seem a better choice than the LX or K1000.

 

[kamerakiri]

The answers have been helpful to understand what current issues exist and why Pentax may not consider it as the best idea. I can also understand why people who appreciate extensive customizable buttons and good ergonomics may not want to straddle along a Pentax KP successor, just for looks.

I think K3 Mark III form factor is great. A KP form factor would impact the whole DSLR experience. Either Pentax should make a truly retro and thin but highly capable mirror less lineup, or they should continue making their excellent DSLRs. A juxtaposition of both might be more Frankenstein than cute.

I don't really understand nostalgia for old technology. I mean, I understand it if it's an object one bought a long time ago and kept preciously, why not, but I don't get why one would want something new with a look (and often bad or limited ergonomics and features) from the past.

I mean, if it's a passion for very simple cameras with stripped down controls, one can just buy a GoPro ? :-D

It takes very little extra R&D for Pentax to pull this - they have a production line, 90% of parts are same, an EVF can simply be bought from a vendor and the software already has a lot of features from other mirrorless cameras. If Ricoh GR can be successful, maybe a Pentax MILC Lx can be as well. But I guess it is not Pentax engineers but Ricoh management that ties their hands.

Pentax might have to look for another owner if they have to reinvent themselves(again!).

No, no, there is one cardinal "obstacle" to go mirror-less! And it is the K mount. Pentax will (they have to) stick with this mount forever! This is their the only way to survive! This is what makes them so unique! And this is what prevents them to go mirrorless. Unless they would want to repeat another K-01 fiasco :-( .

Leica straddles two mounts successfully - M mount and leads the L mount alliance.

And offers different kinds of products in these two different mounts.

I think a mirror less LX is a different kind of camera compared to their DSLRs.

If they have the vision to pull it, I think they can experiment with a new mount that is not limited by physical drawbacks of K mount. But a K mount mirror less Pentax will fail 100%.

Maybe join L mount alliance and just make a mirrorless LX with L mount. Unlikely, but still doable without taking huge risks.

 

[DougOB]

The answers have been helpful to understand what current issues exist and why Pentax may not consider it as the best idea. I can also understand why people who appreciate extensive customizable buttons and good ergonomics may not want to straddle along a Pentax KP successor, just for looks.

I think K3 Mark III form factor is great. A KP form factor would impact the whole DSLR experience. Either Pentax should make a truly retro and thin but highly capable mirror less lineup, or they should continue making their excellent DSLRs. A juxtaposition of both might be more Frankenstein than cute.

I don't really understand nostalgia for old technology. I mean, I understand it if it's an object one bought a long time ago and kept preciously, why not, but I don't get why one would want something new with a look (and often bad or limited ergonomics and features) from the past.

I mean, if it's a passion for very simple cameras with stripped down controls, one can just buy a GoPro ? :-D

It takes very little extra R&D for Pentax to pull this - they have a production line, 90% of parts are same, an EVF can simply be bought from a vendor and the software already has a lot of features from other mirrorless cameras. If Ricoh GR can be successful, maybe a Pentax MILC Lx can be as well. But I guess it is not Pentax engineers but Ricoh management that ties their hands.

Pentax might have to look for another owner if they have to reinvent themselves(again!).

No, no, there is one cardinal "obstacle" to go mirror-less! And it is the K mount. Pentax will (they have to) stick with this mount forever! This is their the only way to survive! This is what makes them so unique! And this is what prevents them to go mirrorless. Unless they would want to repeat another K-01 fiasco :-( .

The K-01 did not fail because of the K-mount. It was a style design disaster that meant nobody took it seriously. There were a few performance limitations that could have been worked out with a mkII version. The biggest weaknnes (for me) is no EVF, back screen only. It is difficult to use on a sunny day. Although a new mount is technically preferable for a MILC it is still perfectly possible with a k-mount.

Doug

 

[flektogon]

The answers have been helpful to understand what current issues exist and why Pentax may not consider it as the best idea. I can also understand why people who appreciate extensive customizable buttons and good ergonomics may not want to straddle along a Pentax KP successor, just for looks.

I think K3 Mark III form factor is great. A KP form factor would impact the whole DSLR experience. Either Pentax should make a truly retro and thin but highly capable mirror less lineup, or they should continue making their excellent DSLRs. A juxtaposition of both might be more Frankenstein than cute.

I don't really understand nostalgia for old technology. I mean, I understand it if it's an object one bought a long time ago and kept preciously, why not, but I don't get why one would want something new with a look (and often bad or limited ergonomics and features) from the past.

I mean, if it's a passion for very simple cameras with stripped down controls, one can just buy a GoPro ? :-D

It takes very little extra R&D for Pentax to pull this - they have a production line, 90% of parts are same, an EVF can simply be bought from a vendor and the software already has a lot of features from other mirrorless cameras. If Ricoh GR can be successful, maybe a Pentax MILC Lx can be as well. But I guess it is not Pentax engineers but Ricoh management that ties their hands.

Pentax might have to look for another owner if they have to reinvent themselves(again!).

No, no, there is one cardinal "obstacle" to go mirror-less! And it is the K mount. Pentax will (they have to) stick with this mount forever! This is their the only way to survive! This is what makes them so unique! And this is what prevents them to go mirrorless. Unless they would want to repeat another K-01 fiasco :-( .

The K-01 did not fail because of the K-mount. It was a style design disaster that meant nobody took it seriously. There were a few performance limitations that could have been worked out with a mkII version. The biggest weaknnes (for me) is no EVF, back screen only. It is difficult to use on a sunny day. Although a new mount is technically preferable for a MILC it is still perfectly possible with a k-mount.

Doug

Doug, one important advantage of mirror-less cameras is, that they are flatter. At least, this would be my main reason to get such a camera. And with the existing K mount there is no way to make any flat camera :-( .