Partition external HD already in use by Time Machine?

[mujana]

(on macOS Sequioa/ Mac Mini M4 Pro)

At the moment I use a 10Tb external hard disk (LaCie d2), for both Time Machine and (photo) files that I moved from my Mac Mini internal SSD (separate folders). This external HD is not partitioned!
I cannot delete any images from those separate folders (it says I have no permission to do so, despite read/write permission set). That (still) bothers me. I’ve read, that removing files from an external HD that is also used by Time Machine is “not possible” (?). Not sure if this is true though.

Now I have the idea that, by partitioning that external drive, I could keep Time Machine backups separated from the folders containing images / those I created by moving them from my internal Mac Mini SSD.
I do not know if this is true.
Can someone please tell me if this is correct?

And if so, how can I partition this external HD, without loosing Time Machine backups and/or separate folders with data/images/etc. on it?

Please keep it simple; I’m not technically savvy at all!

Thank you!

 

[JRET]

(on macOS Sequioa/ Mac Mini M4 Pro)

At the moment I use a 10Tb external hard disk (LaCie d2), for both Time Machine and (photo) files that I moved from my Mac Mini internal SSD (separate folders). This external HD is not partitioned!
I cannot delete any images from those separate folders (it says I have no permission to do so, despite read/write permission set). That (still) bothers me. I’ve read, that removing files from an external HD that is also used by Time Machine is “not possible” (?). Not sure if this is true though.

Now I have the idea that, by partitioning that external drive, I could keep Time Machine backups separated from the folders containing images / those I created by moving them from my internal Mac Mini SSD.
I do not know if this is true.
Can someone please tell me if this is correct?

And if so, how can I partition this external HD, without loosing Time Machine backups and/or separate folders with data/images/etc. on it?

Please keep it simple; I’m not technically savvy at all!

Thank you!

Best & safest practice is to keep Time Machine on a dedicated hard drive with no partitions.

From memory - I believe it's possible to partition a hard drive with one partition set up for Time Machine and another partition designated for other purposes, but should be avoided. Partitioning a drive is better (safer) when done prior to saving data to the hard drive.

--
GENESIS 1:3

 

[Love_my_R5]

(on macOS Sequioa/ Mac Mini M4 Pro)

And if so, how can I partition this external HD, without loosing Time Machine backups and/or separate folders with data/images/etc. on it?

I have used a similar configuration for years without any issues. You can use the Disk Utility to add APFS volumes. For example:






Disk Utility screenshot

 

[mujana]

(on macOS Sequioa/ Mac Mini M4 Pro)

At the moment I use a 10Tb external hard disk (LaCie d2), for both Time Machine and (photo) files that I moved from my Mac Mini internal SSD (separate folders). This external HD is not partitioned!
I cannot delete any images from those separate folders (it says I have no permission to do so, despite read/write permission set). That (still) bothers me. I’ve read, that removing files from an external HD that is also used by Time Machine is “not possible” (?). Not sure if this is true though.

Now I have the idea that, by partitioning that external drive, I could keep Time Machine backups separated from the folders containing images / those I created by moving them from my internal Mac Mini SSD.
I do not know if this is true.
Can someone please tell me if this is correct?

And if so, how can I partition this external HD, without loosing Time Machine backups and/or separate folders with data/images/etc. on it?

Please keep it simple; I’m not technically savvy at all!

Thank you!

Best & safest practice is to keep Time Machine on a dedicated hard drive with no partitions.

Thank you. I know that's best practice. But at the moment I have both Time Machine Backups AND separate files on my external HD. Possible consequence is, that I can see/edit my images in some files (NOT Time Machine backups; so separate files that I moved from Mac mini internal SSD to external), but I cannot completely remove them.

From memory - I believe it's possible to partition a hard drive with one partition set up for Time Machine and another partition designated for other purposes, but should be avoided. Partitioning a drive is better (safer) when done prior to saving data to the hard drive.

Agree, and I know that....but...here I am with 6,5Tb of 10Tb filled on external Hard drive. I would like to be able to remove individual images from maps/files that I moved to the external.

 

[mujana]

(on macOS Sequioa/ Mac Mini M4 Pro)

And if so, how can I partition this external HD, without loosing Time Machine backups and/or separate folders with data/images/etc. on it?

I have used a similar configuration for years without any issues. You can use the Disk Utility to add APFS volumes. For example:


Disk Utility screenshot

Thank you, but was your external HD (Samsung SSD in your case), already "filled" with Time Machine backups AND separate files that you moved there? By "filled" I do NOT mean completely full, but say two thirds filled. That's my situation.

 

[Love_my_R5]

(on macOS Sequioa/ Mac Mini M4 Pro)

And if so, how can I partition this external HD, without loosing Time Machine backups and/or separate folders with data/images/etc. on it?

I have used a similar configuration for years without any issues. You can use the Disk Utility to add APFS volumes. For example:


Disk Utility screenshot

Thank you, but was your external HD (Samsung SSD in your case), already "filled" with Time Machine backups AND separate files that you moved there? By "filled" I do NOT mean completely full, but say two thirds filled. That's my situation.

I'm not sure that I understand what you mean exactly. The APFS volume named Time Machine-2 is only used for Time Machine backups. The volume named Canon Backup is filled with images. Although, they are separate volumes, they both share storage in the same APFS container (disk 5) which itself is stored on a Samsung T5 SSD.

According to macOS, I don't have permission to write files directly to the Time Machine-2 volume. On the other hand, you should be able to access the contents of any existing backup (by browsing using the Time Machine user interface or using Finder to open a Time Machine backup (as read only)).



Time Machine volume info

 

[Nick on the Baltic]

Honestly, I think you are stuffed. Your initial error was to copy files to a TimeMachine volume. Without hands on inspecting your setup, I can't say what the exact problem is, but I recall you asking about permission issues with this disk earlier.

If I were you I would purchase a new disk, format it APFS and create a volume for TimeMachine and a volume for files. I would start a new backup on the backup volume and copy the files from the old disk to the new files volume. I would put the old disk away in a drawer for a year in case I needed an older backup, after which I would reformat the old disk (APFS).

Better still would be to have separate disks for data and backup, but you know your situation regarding ports, cables, power supplies, money etc.

 

[mujana]

Honestly, I think you are stuffed. Your initial error was to copy files to a TimeMachine volume. Without hands on inspecting your setup, I can't say what the exact problem is, but I recall you asking about permission issues with this disk earlier.

Correct Nick! And you where very helpful!

Strangest thing is, that after after a reboot in safe mode, I can remove those individual images from my external. But then, after a while…not possible anymore. But ONLY impossible to do that from within my photo editing program/software.
I CAN however remove them in Finder. Always. Just not from my photo editing program ; there it says: “Some files could not be moved to the trash” and also: “Try deleting the images using Finder”. Like I said, if I do that it IS possible. Could it be my photo editing program (DXO PL)?

"Show info" on my LaCie 10Tb external says: Structure: Mac OS Extended (journaled). Does APFS work well with Hard drives? I thought mainly for (external) SSD?

If I were you I would purchase a new disk, format it APFS and create a volume for TimeMachine and a volume for files. I would start a new backup on the backup volume and copy the files from the old disk to the new files volume. I would put the old disk away in a drawer for a year in case I needed an older backup, after which I would reformat the old (Journaled)

That could possibly be another LaCie 2d (10Tb, as before). Keep this current one (old) somewhere....could it also be used as e second backup to copy files? I'm doing this with my older LaCie d2 6Tb now....maybe twice a year...copy files to that drive (from my current 10Tb drive)....just as an extra back up.

Physical disk: USB external physical disk/GUID-partition; (one full blue line LaCie d2 Professional 10Tb)

in that….”sub disk”(?) saying:

LaCie d2 Professional 10Tb ; USB external physical volume; Mac OS Extended (journaled). Used 6,48Tb. Blue line.

--
Nick on the Baltic

 

[mujana]

(on macOS Sequioa/ Mac Mini M4 Pro)

And if so, how can I partition this external HD, without loosing Time Machine backups and/or separate folders with data/images/etc. on it?

I have used a similar configuration for years without any issues. You can use the Disk Utility to add APFS volumes. For example:


Disk Utility screenshot

Thank you, but was your external HD (Samsung SSD in your case), already "filled" with Time Machine backups AND separate files that you moved there? By "filled" I do NOT mean completely full, but say two thirds filled. That's my situation.

I'm not sure that I understand what you mean exactly. The APFS volume named Time Machine-2 is only used for Time Machine backups. The volume named Canon Backup is filled with images. Although, they are separate volumes, they both share storage in the same APFS container (disk 5) which itself is stored on a Samsung T5 SSD.

According to macOS, I don't have permission to write files directly to the Time Machine-2 volume. On the other hand, you should be able to access the contents of any existing backup (by browsing using the Time Machine user interface or using Finder to open a Time Machine backup (as read only)).


Time Machine volume info

Thank you very much! Please see my reaction to Nick’s comment further on in this thread.

 

[Love_my_R5]

Thank you very much! Please see my reaction to Nick’s comment further on in this thread.

Mac OS Extended format

The Mac OS Extended (Journaled) format file system is the default file system for macOS 10.12 or earlier. It uses a journaling technique to help protect the integrity of a hierarchical file system and provides an encryption option you can use to protect data on a disk.

In macOS 10.13, it was replaced with Apple File System (APFS), the default file system for Mac computers with solid state drives.

In any case, it should still be possible to add a partition with an APFS container that you can use for backing-up your images. To do this you need to (carefully) use the Disk Utility. I suggest that you read some documents or look for video tutorials on using the Disk Utility for APFS.

From what I understand, you won't be able to share the available free space with your Time Machine backups (because it uses the old HFS+ format). If you do purchase a new SSD, I strongly suggest that you use APFS volumes.

 

[mujana]

Thank you very much! Please see my reaction to Nick’s comment further on in this thread.

Mac OS Extended format

The Mac OS Extended (Journaled) format file system is the default file system for macOS 10.12 or earlier. It uses a journaling technique to help protect the integrity of a hierarchical file system and provides an encryption option you can use to protect data on a disk.

In macOS 10.13, it was replaced with Apple File System (APFS), the default file system for Mac computers with solid state drives.

In any case, it should still be possible to add a partition with an APFS container that you can use for backing-up your images. To do this you need to (carefully) use the Disk Utility. I suggest that you read some documents or look for video tutorials on using the Disk Utility for APFS.

From what I understand, you won't be able to share the available free space with your Time Machine backups (because it uses the old HFS+ format). If you do purchase a new SSD, I strongly suggest that you use APFS volumes.

Thank you again.

For backups/Time Machine I think I prefer external hard disks. 10Tb SSD looks very expensive and external HD has already proven itself here.

 

[JRET]

For backups/Time Machine I think I prefer external hard disks. 10Tb SSD looks very expensive and external HD has already proven itself here.

Correct. This is a good plan.

A good scenario for you to think about ...
Time Machine - external hard disk (does not need to be SSD)
Backup - external hard disk (also does not need to be SSD)

Running out of space on your internal drive?
Consider a 2TB or 4TB NVMe M.2 in a decent Thunderbolt enclosure. It will be nearly as fast as your internal drive.

Also consider off site backup in the cloud such as BackBlaze or iDrive. Alternatively, if you have family nearby buy another external HD, back it up on a regular schedule, and store it offsite. Not terribly expensive but provides even greater security of your data.

Following the above outline (or something similar) and you would have all your original data on the internal drive + external NVMe (if needed). One normal backup on external drive. One Time Machine backup. And finally, one off site backup. Great protection.

While it may sound like overkill, losing all your data without a functioning backup is very traumatic and can be minimized with a proper backup plan.

 

[Nick on the Baltic]

Like I said, I'd have to get hands-on to investigate your problem and might not be able to resolve it even then.

APFS works fine for me on HDDs. It has some advantages, the most obvious being the ability to create separate volumes that dynamically share the spare space on the disk.

Various people around the web report/talk about issues with APFS on an HDD; some may be talking about early versions of APFS, some may be scaremongering, some may have found real drawbacks. Since I have no way of judging the competence or honesty of these netizens, I prefer to trust my own experience and the fact that Apple support APFS on HDD.

--
Nick on the Baltic

 

[mujana]

For backups/Time Machine I think I prefer external hard disks. 10Tb SSD looks very expensive and external HD has already proven itself here.

Correct. This is a good plan.

A good scenario for you to think about ...
Time Machine - external hard disk (does not need to be SSD)
Backup - external hard disk (also does not need to be SSD)

Running out of space on your internal drive?
Consider a 2TB or 4TB NVMe M.2 in a decent Thunderbolt enclosure. It will be nearly as fast as your internal drive.

Also consider off site backup in the cloud such as BackBlaze or iDrive. Alternatively, if you have family nearby buy another external HD, back it up on a regular schedule, and store it offsite. Not terribly expensive but provides even greater security of your data.

Following the above outline (or something similar) and you would have all your original data on the internal drive + external NVMe (if needed). One normal backup on external drive. One Time Machine backup. And finally, one off site backup. Great protection.

While it may sound like overkill, losing all your data without a functioning backup is very traumatic and can be minimized with a proper backup plan.

Thank you JRET. At the moment I have several external had disks. I use 2 for backups...one permanently attached to my Mac...a second one I use every now and then to copy or move files from the first one.

 

[mujana]

Like I said, I'd have to get hands-on to investigate your problem and might not be able to resolve it even then.

APFS works fine for me on HDDs. It has some advantages, the most obvious being the ability to create separate volumes that dynamically share the spare space on the disk.

Various people around the web report/talk about issues with APFS on an HDD; some may be talking about early versions of APFS, some may be scaremongering, some may have found real drawbacks. Since I have no way of judging the competence or honesty of these netizens, I prefer to trust my own experience and the fact that Apple support APFS on HDD.

Thnxs again Nick. Good to know that APFS works on hard drives as well. I'll read more about that (disadvantages/advantages and user reports)

 

[Lettermanian]

Maybe I'm not understanding the whole situation, but it seems to me that if you have an M4 Pro, it's quite new, and won't have a huge backup history yet. Can you not simply move the pictures folders back to the Mini's internal drive temporarily, then erase the 10TB external drive, set it up the way you want to with two partitions, and start over? That way you could setup a Time Machine partition (say 2TB or so) formatted APFS, and then have an 8TB partition for photos/videos etc for easy access. That partition could be formatted ExFAT for cross-compatibility with windows if ever necessary. Again, unless I'm missing something, that would seem to be a very workable solution with what you have already.

 

[mujana]

Maybe I'm not understanding the whole situation, but it seems to me that if you have an M4 Pro, it's quite new, and won't have a huge backup history yet. Can you not simply move the pictures folders back to the Mini's internal drive temporarily, then erase the 10TB external drive, set it up the way you want to with two partitions, and start over? That way you could setup a Time Machine partition (say 2TB or so) formatted APFS, and then have an 8TB partition for photos/videos etc for easy access. That partition could be formatted ExFAT for cross-compatibility with windows if ever necessary. Again, unless I'm missing something, that would seem to be a very workable solution with what you have already.

Thank you Lettermanian. That is an option. My external LaCie 10Tb is 4 years old now. Don’t know ofcourse how long it will run as it always did.
From the 2Tb internal, 500GB is used. Pictures folders on external : 1,9 Tb. So, that would be difficult. Beside that, on the external there’s 4 years of Time Machine backups, divided into to “maps” (probably not the right word); “iMac” (backups from Intel iMac I had before), and Mac Mini M4. With my new Mac Mini M4 Pro, all Time Machine backups automatically go into “MacMini M4 Pro”. “iMac” isn’t touched anymore (nothing is added with Time Machine)

But maybe I can try my second external hard disk (LaCie d2 6Tb)…..will have to find out.

I don’t plan to use external on a Windows computer. I think, one partition formatted to mac OS Extended (journaled) , could also work(?). Next to Time Machine APFS (as you suggested for Time Machine backups).
Any (dis)advantages with such a combination?

 

[Philip Eihuyar]

(on macOS Sequioa/ Mac Mini M4 Pro)

At the moment I use a 10Tb external hard disk (LaCie d2), for both Time Machine and (photo) files that I moved from my Mac Mini internal SSD (separate folders). This external HD is not partitioned!
I cannot delete any images from those separate folders (it says I have no permission to do so, despite read/write permission set). That (still) bothers me. I’ve read, that removing files from an external HD that is also used by Time Machine is “not possible” (?). Not sure if this is true though.

Now I have the idea that, by partitioning that external drive, I could keep Time Machine backups separated from the folders containing images / those I created by moving them from my internal Mac Mini SSD.
I do not know if this is true.
Can someone please tell me if this is correct?

And if so, how can I partition this external HD, without loosing Time Machine backups and/or separate folders with data/images/etc. on it?

Please keep it simple; I’m not technically savvy at all!

Thank you!

The links below explain general principles on creating partitions volumes and languages or types. APFS, HFS+ (don't -not compatible with TM), fat, exFat

https://www.bing.com/videos/rivervi...B82C8DF8E465A4E0E806B82C8DF8E465A4E&FORM=VIRE

https://support.apple.com/guide/disk-utility/file-system-formats-dsku19ed921c/mac

https://eclecticlight.co/2025/01/07/why-all-the-snapshots/

 

[mujana]

(on macOS Sequioa/ Mac Mini M4 Pro)

At the moment I use a 10Tb external hard disk (LaCie d2), for both Time Machine and (photo) files that I moved from my Mac Mini internal SSD (separate folders). This external HD is not partitioned!
I cannot delete any images from those separate folders (it says I have no permission to do so, despite read/write permission set). That (still) bothers me. I’ve read, that removing files from an external HD that is also used by Time Machine is “not possible” (?). Not sure if this is true though.

Now I have the idea that, by partitioning that external drive, I could keep Time Machine backups separated from the folders containing images / those I created by moving them from my internal Mac Mini SSD.
I do not know if this is true.
Can someone please tell me if this is correct?

And if so, how can I partition this external HD, without loosing Time Machine backups and/or separate folders with data/images/etc. on it?

Please keep it simple; I’m not technically savvy at all!

Thank you!

The links below explain general principles on creating partitions volumes and languages or types. APSC HFS+ (don't -not compatible with TM), fat, exFat

https://www.bing.com/videos/rivervi...B82C8DF8E465A4E0E806B82C8DF8E465A4E&FORM=VIRE

https://support.apple.com/guide/disk-utility/file-system-formats-dsku19ed921c/mac

https://eclecticlight.co/2025/01/07/why-all-the-snapshots/

Thank you Philip!

 

[mujana]

Maybe I'm not understanding the whole situation, but it seems to me that if you have an M4 Pro, it's quite new, and won't have a huge backup history yet. Can you not simply move the pictures folders back to the Mini's internal drive temporarily, then erase the 10TB external drive, set it up the way you want to with two partitions, and start over? That way you could setup a Time Machine partition (say 2TB or so) formatted APFS, and then have an 8TB partition for photos/videos etc for easy access. That partition could be formatted ExFAT for cross-compatibility with windows if ever necessary. Again, unless I'm missing something, that would seem to be a very workable solution with what you have already.

I’m used to let Time Machine do its thing and to drag and drop (move), files to external. Never shared with any Windows computer (but still an idea). I understand that APFS format is fine for Time Machine (even on external hard drives). If partitioning, would a second partition also be fine as APFS? Drop files / images there from internal, but also work on them and even remove them if I like to? Maybe that second partition in extended Journaled or exFAT? Any advantages/ disadvantages, or doesn’t it matter at all?

Also….first set up the whole external HD in APFS? And after that, partitioning? Or first extended journaled or ExFAT and after that, partitioning?