Object tracking - anybody uses it successfully?

[quatpat]

When the A77/A65 were introduced, there was much talk about the new object tracking function of these cameras. I, and probably others too, were hoping that this feature would allow smoother tracking and a higher hit-rate on moving objects, such as flying birds, racing cars, or kids.

I am mostly photographing birds hand held, and I have to admit that this feature never worked for me. With my Minolta 400/4.5 on the A77 it seems to me that there is almost no way to make object tracking function properly, not even with a slow flying sea gull at medium distance against a clear blue sky.

First, the object isn't easily being picked up by the tracking sytem - most of the time only after the 3rd or 4th try, by which time the subject is usually about to disappear. To me, the initiating process (AF on the subject, initiating the tracking system, placing the center over the subject, launch the tracking) is too slow and too much prone to errors, made both by me and the camera, while the system doesn't easily pick the object.

Second, the tracking system doesn't track properly. From my experience, the system loses the subject far too easily, even when there is no major distraction in the frame (for example it loses the bird and picks up a cloud). Or, if the subject moves around a bit quickly in the frame due to handholding the camera, the system is also prone to losing it.

Third, tracking precision. Even when a subject was tracked apparently properly, the hit rate is far from being 100%, which sort of makes the whole feature obsolete to me.

All the above applies for "easy subject detection with uncluttered background", while for "subject in front of cluttered background" (bird flying), the system never worked for me, not even once. It was just impossible to make the camera pick the bird instead of the background, and keep focus on it.

So... that is my experience with the eagerly avaited obejct tracking feature - it doesn't work properly for my needs. However, other peoples experiences may differ, and I would be interested in which way, with which lenses and in which situations the system actually DOES work. Certainly, handhelding a screw-driven 400mm lens on a moving subject is not an ideal situation, but what are the situations that the system can be used succesfully? Where does it give an advantage over the normal continous AF-tracking? I'd be interested to hear other photographers' experiences.

qp

 

[TomvL]

My experience is exactly the same.

It's not conveniently enough to quickly select your object and it looses it too quickly and when it stays on the pictures are often still not in focus.

 

[JIngrouille]

I totally agree with your comments.
--
Ingy

 

[Nordstjernen]

My advice: Forget completely about Object Tracking! This might be a nice feature in the future, but for the A77 it is just working for slow moving objects.

Use senter spot or sender group AF for action photography. With good camera technique the keeper rate is very high compared to previous Sony cameras.

 

[SemiFireFly]

I’ve experienced the exact same thing on my A57 ever since I got it a month ago. At first I thought I was doing something wrong. But after having read all the info on the focus tracking system in the manual and no matter what settings I tried, it still fails to deliver. Even in situations where I tell the camera to track my sons bright blue shirt against a much darker and homogeneous background it still loses tracking for no apparent reason.

One of the reasons I bought this camera was because of the continuous auto focus capability in video. I have a 2.5 year old that I want to capture on video and my Nikon D90 was nowhere near up to that task. Being the first DSLR with video it has a completely handicapped video function compared to modern cameras.

Now that I’ve shot several hours of video of my son with the A57 and Sony 16-50 I can conclude that there are very few instances where object tracking can be used. In all the other situations I’ll have to resort to manual focus and focus peaking. A big downer.

Same goes for face detection by the way. Even though I’ve stored a well lit reference shot of my son’s face, the camera still doesn’t pick it up 40 to 50% of the time that he is facing the camera. And when it does, it can’t focus on his face on many occasions either because it’s outside one of the focus points (that are too much clustered around the center for my liking).

It doesn’t make it a bad camera. Far from it, I still love it a lot for all the things that it does do well. And that is saying a lot since I absolutely loved my Nikon D90 to pieces. Main thing is that I’m still able to capture good quality live motion memories along stills. But when a camera comes along that has these quirks fixed and delivers in the other departments as well I’m going to trade my A57 for it.

 

[SemiFireFly]

Really annoying that you can only edit your message once on this forum. Where is said: "focus tracking system" I meant "object tracking system".

 

[unravel]

from what i understand, the face tracking feature works a lot better. No personal experience in this however

 

[Chris Malcolm]

Improving your own hand held tracking skills will give you much better results than relying on in-camera automatic systems to do all the work for you. I have a 500mm f8 reflex lens. It can only use the central AF sensor, so no auto tracking is available, and it's so difficult to aim that catching wheeling seagulls is close to impossible. It took me half an hour of very frustrating practice with a flock of continuously circling gulls to catch even one in flight, and it was poorly focused.

But I added a handle to the camera (folded monopod) to give me a more stable and controllable double handed grip, and a gun sight to let me very easily aim the central AF sensor smack on a flying bird. I also learned some useful tricks, such as prefocus near the right distance to speed initial focus lock, plus temp switching off focus with the hold button whenever things would confuse the focus, such as the bird passing behind a tree.

With these improvements and slow repeat I can now easily get at least dozen shots of any passing bird. I use slow repeat because fast repeat gives me far too many shots, and it's so easy to lock focus on the birds that I spend most of the time keeping focus locked without shooting, being selective.

What was an almost impossible lens for catching birds in flight has now become by far the easiest lens I've got for catching birds in flight. Without any focus tracking. In fact focus tracking would probably make things worse.

--
Chris Malcolm

 

[quatpat]

Thanks for the input to all who replied!

As it seems so far, nobody uses the object tracking feature with much success, which doesn't really surprise me. While it could be nice if it functionned well, Sony's implementation of this feature seems simply too flimsy for it to function well in an action situation.

I belive that part of the problem is in the activation process. It should be as simple as that: switch to object tracking mode via one of the buttons (as now), and then activate the actual tracking by half-pressing the shutter button, and deactivate by releasing the shutter button. That way it would function just like the normal AF activation, with the difference that it would track around the frame whatever object was on or near the central AF-point at the time of half-pressing the shutter.

Of course, the tracking system itself would also need some more precision, both for keeping the subject, and for focus accuracy. However, using only screw-driven lenses myself, I am not in a position to judge how well the system functions with SSM lenses.

One thing is sure: a good technique is needed in any case. However, I can't help thinking that Sony could have implemented this feature much better, so that it would be actually useful.

qp

 

[zackiedawg]

One thing is sure: a good technique is needed in any case. However, I can't help thinking that Sony could have implemented this feature much better, so that it would be actually useful.

Exactly, as Chris said too - there's simply no substitute or replacement for technique and experience. I don't think object tracking is quite ready for this type of photography - I'd tend to agree with Nord that it's probably usable for slow moving targets, and the face detect version might work better - it's probably more tuned for use with a child moving around and keeping his face in focus. Birds are too fast and unpredictable.

Regardless of what camera I've used, what type of focus system it has, how many focus points, etc, I have gotten a better hit rate and had an easier time with birds in flight every single year that's gone by. Sure, sometimes the newer cameras had a slightly faster focus system that may have helped, or more focus points that may have helped, but even switching back to an older camera, my hit rate remains much higher this year compared to last, and the year before that, and next year, I'd expect it better than this. Purely my own experience, more and more practice, and honing of skill and technique, have made the biggest difference. I switch back and forth between a DSLR and a mirrorless CDAF camera system, and can still shoot BIFs easily enough with either one - the slow CDAF hasn't been the impediment it used to be, because my skill and technique with panning and tracking have improved over the years.

Honestly, if object tracking worked perfectly, 100% of the time, with tiny flying swallows at full-bore...I still likely wouldn't use it. I've just become comfortable with my own method, and setting my own focus area and mode as needed...the initiation process for object tracking wouldn't even dawn on me and would make me uncomfortable having to learn a new way of doing what I've taught myself to do over the past 6-7 years. It would be nice if they could get it to work even for fast and unpredictable targets - for those who want or need those aids, knowing they could actually rely on the camera to do the bulk of the work for them. I just don't think it's quite there yet, so skill and technique will have to be used for the best results.

--
Justin
galleries: http://www.pbase.com/zackiedawg

 

[seilerbird666]

I don't think that object tracking will ever work for a long telephoto lens even way in the future. Too much human interaction would be required. You still have to follow the object physically yourself and at least keep the bird in the frame. It might work for a wide angle lens, but not a telephoto.

I have been shooting BIF for years and I have no problem shooting moving objects. If I got a camera with object tracking I would turn it off, it would get in my way.
--
My photos:
picasaweb.google.com/seilerbird

 

[OntarioJohn]

I was downtown shooting a way up the street with the Sony G 18 to 50? lens. I was focusing on a series of street lights where they were stacked a looked cool. Way down around 20 mm.

A pretty girl in a dress and heels comes into the frame left, not really in the shot. A square goes around her head. She's way to the left, I start snapping. The camera held her in focus, as she got closer and crossed from left to right in front of me.

The pictures were cool. The rest was blurred by the DOF, but she was in perfect focus.

And she had no idea I was shooting her due to the angles, because I didn't need to move the camera to keep her focused, nor did I need to do it hand held, which might have tipped it off. Then the quiet of the mirror less camera helped, she couldn't hear the shutter over the traffic noise.

It's HOW you shoot, and you expectations for the feature. Try other scenarios, I'm sure you'll find a good use for it.

Jean le canadien.

 

[quatpat]

Before I bought the A77 I was actually hoping that this feature would allow me, compared to my A350, for better tracking of birds in flight especially in front of non-sky backgrounds.

However, when I tried out the camera, I quickly realized that the combination of the EFV and relatively large focus points made it at least as difficult, if not more, to track birds in this situation. Maybe my expectations were too high, or maybe the higher AF speed that the camera provides makes keeping the subject in focus more difficult, but all in all my hit rate with the A77 in this specific situation is rather lower than it was with the A350, even without activating object tracking.

You are right though, there is no better way than practising, and that is what I had little chance over the last 6 month, due to some happy family circumstances... But I will soon be out again, taking your advise.

qp

 

[quatpat]

I hadn't thought of this particular situation ever before, but I'm glad that it worked out for you! Good to see that there is at least on situation where the feature delivers.

I agree also with Seilerbird666 that the feature is probably more effective on wide angle or short tele lenses, which can be hold relatively steadily, or which are used on a tripod.

 

[zackiedawg]

Before I bought the A77 I was actually hoping that this feature would allow me, compared to my A350, for better tracking of birds in flight especially in front of non-sky backgrounds.

I wish it would too - even if I wouldn't use it, it would be a nice feature that could help sell more cameras. Unfortunately, the tech probably just isn't quite ready for prime time.

However, when I tried out the camera, I quickly realized that the combination of the EFV and relatively large focus points made it at least as difficult, if not more, to track birds in this situation. Maybe my expectations were too high, or maybe the higher AF speed that the camera provides makes keeping the subject in focus more difficult, but all in all my hit rate with the A77 in this specific situation is rather lower than it was with the A350, even without activating object tracking.

I think probably just a little relearning to get around the differences. To be honest, I decided to stick with the A580 over the A77 myself, mostly because I preferred the more 'old fashioned' OVF for shooting birds in flight and motion, which I do often enough to matter. However, I've also since picked up a NEX-5N with the EVF attachment - same OLED finder as the A77, but with the slower CDAF focusing system that just isn't nearly as capable in AF-C mode of tracking a closing target. The viewfinder would have the same slideshow/lag as on the SLTs, especially shooting at 10fps...but I have actually learned that I CAN still shoot BIF with the EVF, and even with the slow CDAF focus. It's mostly because I've gotten so much better over the years with my panning and tracking technique, and it's helped me more quickly acquire the target and choose the right focus mode for the situation (switching between multipoint and spot depending on the likelihood of the background 'stealing' focus). Some say that a NEX system should be near-impossible to shoot birds in flight, many say CDAF makes it impossible, and you still hear how the EVF makes it impossible...combine a NEX, CDAF, and an EVF together, and it should be as impossible as can be. But I've been managing to get some usable BIFs from it using a 55-210mm lens with a 1.7x teleextender (357mm optically):















Certainly no object tracking - heck, I can't even really use AF-C for continuous focus with single-point tracking as it's usually not fast enough. I've got some with clear skies, but a few with cluttered backgrounds, a few actually approaching or drawing away from the camera, etc. The only real thing I have to get these shots is technique, experience, or skill. They're not my best, and I can do much better with the A580 (which can actually focus track in continuous mode fast enough to keep up with a closing bird), but even with a system not at all designed or optimized for this type of shooting, it's quite achievable once you've got the technique down.

I now know I could do just fine with the A77 in such situations. There'd be differences from the A580 - some things not quite as easy or good, others quite possibly better. And the A77 would be leagues better than the NEX-5N, with its much faster focus system, more points, and bigger buffer.

--
Justin
galleries: http://www.pbase.com/zackiedawg

 

[Ed at Ridersite]

I rarely shoot BIF - not many opportunities. But, with my A-77, shooting with a clear background (like blue or white sky - pretty much any sky for that matter), using wide area focus works beautifully. I pre-focus and simply try to keep the subject in the frame. Using WAF uses all the focus sensors - better than the spot or zone. It acquires and keeps focus very well.

I've used this on Gulls and Martins and am amazed at how well it focuses using the Beercan & Big Beercan - not a particularly fast focusing lenses. I also use spot focus, but I find, for me, tracking is much more difficult.

With a busy background, I think you have to use spot focusing and have impeccable skills.
--
AEH
http://aehass.zenfolio.com/
http://aehass.zenfolio.com/blog
Question: What do you do all week?
Answer: Mon to Fri. Nothing, Sat & Sun I rest!

 

[NPPhoto]

This feature will work wonders for slow to medium fast moving objects with decent to semi-decent panning on part of the photographer.

In terms of software, Sony could have given us the object tracking as one of the choices in AF. Chosing this option would automatically trigger object tracking with the center point focus pre-selected.

But in its current state, you have to chose the target and click on a button to activate it. Very cumbersome.

--
Nick P

 

[emmanuelg]

I don't use it. I tried on birds in flight but unsuccessful.
Instead, I use the center spot AF.
--
Emmanuel

"A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger." - King Solomon

 

[quatpat]

Thanks Justin, very nice photos as usual! Number two is about the situation I'm talking about, which gives me a hard time. To be fair to the A77 it has to be said that the birds I'm photographing are more often raptors than ducks, flying in more random patterns, and are usually quite far away, which makes it much more confusing for the camera. But there are situations where the camera really should focus on the bird (center point right on it), but for some reason picks up only on the background... either because the subject is not big or contrasty enough, or because the background has more clutter to pick up onto than the bird.

Instead of a not very useful obejct tracking feature it would have been nice to have adjustable focus sensitivity and size in the A77. (But of course that wouldn't sell well in the marketing.) To me, the AF points seem soemtimes too big for precise focusing, and there is no way of keeping the camera from jumping focus on anything passing in the forground (like branches or telphone cables), or nervously going back and forth between the subject and the background, because of the photographer's imprecise tracking. A programable delay in focus aquisition (1 or 2 seconds before jumping to a near/far focus) would be very welcome in this situation.

As you said though, a lot of it is down to technique, and really much depends on the specific situation, on the distance, light, contrast, size, and movement of the bird (and the photographer). I guess for the moment I'll have to try to get better with what I have in my hands, which after all is by no means a bad tool for the task. And, as much as I don't like the EVF for it's slower action and lower resolution compared to a good OVF, as much I have to admit its usefullness when it comes to exposure judgment and focus peaking.

qp

 

[quatpat]

I fully agree.

A slightly different implementation, such as activation via the shutter button, would already make it twice as useful (hint to Sony: could this be done via firmware?).

While for continous AF an option to adjust focus sensitivity (time before the focus snaps to a foreground/background object) would be more than welcome!

qp