NEX 5: Revised list of Pros and Cons

[WilsonsLandscapes]

this is silly, what was said that is not in the review it self? you said he is trying to rewrite the review when he is simply showing a different interpretation of what the DPReview staff reported on for all to see, and it makes sense.

you both have said you do not like the NEX cams already and go looking for a NEX thread to nag, for all you know people who worked on the NEX for the past 6 months post right under you nose.

--
"Shoot in the mountains as often as you can, it will change your life"

 

[Marti58]

Never mind the comments of the others. I think your list is a bit more fairer list than dpr reviews even though you have not touch the camera at all. For example listing that the cheapest kit is the one with the fixed focal lens which is not a good option for beginners is total nonsense. Giving consumers options is always good.

thinking without having ... sounds more like guessing.

i think its somewhere in the rules that you should backup your claims with facts.

without using/having the camera how do you do that ?

its just countering the DPR opinion.

--
All my Post Processing is done with Capture NX2

http://www.flickr.com/photos/marti58/

 

[JanKritzinger]

The DPR review is very objective, the conclusions not so much.

In stead of asserting, over and over that it is not possible for me to make any comments without handling the camera, how about you reference one of the comments I made? All of my comments are based on the content of the DPR review.

 

[marcohard]

I played with the NEX-3 for quite some time.
JanKritzinger's revised Pros and Con looks much better to me.

 

[JasperD]

There is nothing I can say objectively against or in favor of their review or conclusions, as I don't owe the camera . The same is true for you. So I'm not even trying to interpret, I just read what they say, will make up my own mind when I actually see and hold one. Not holding my breath on it though.

However, trying to reformulate their own conclusions is confusing, especially as it's taking the edges off them, IMO. I think they are perfectly capable of formulating what they wanted to convey, and they did, they don't need you to reformulate. Thinking they might is indeed pretty arrogant.

 

[Paul W UK]

Jasper ...this is an attempt to summarise fairly the much fuller detail read in the whole review and other reviews and elsewhere...that's what a conclusions can be and it can be made from a reading of the literature - everything out there one has seen to date.

Can we just get away from the name calling though...as Jan says deal with her points to win your argument if you disagree with some specifically. Not this playground stuff.

There are criticisms in the list...as there should be ....I for one will be waiting to see if the NEX 7 is more for me. But these are interesting new cameras.

 

[Paul W UK]

There is nothing I can say objectively against or in favor of their review or conclusions, as I don't owe the camera . The same is true for you. So I'm not even trying to interpret, I just read what they say, will make up my own mind when I actually see and hold one. Not holding my breath on it though.

However, trying to reformulate their own conclusions is confusing, especially as it's taking the edges off them, IMO. I think they are perfectly capable of formulating what they wanted to convey, and they did, they don't need you to reformulate. Thinking they might is indeed pretty arrogant.

So what do you do when you read other reviews that take a different view...do you accept them equally at face value without question. And do you do the same with everything you read in a newspaper unless you have personally experienced the event they report. Hmmmmm.

 

[JanKritzinger]

I think they are perfectly capable of formulating what they wanted to convey, and they did,

I highlighted two important words in your sentence.

they don't need you to reformulate.

No, but I need to reformulate, and I would greatly appreciate it if others would be so kind as to discuss my reformulations in stead of whether I am even allowed to reformulate.

 

[Paul W UK]

Never mind the comments of the others. I think your list is a bit more fairer list than dpr reviews even though you have not touch the camera at all. For example listing that the cheapest kit is the one with the fixed focal lens which is not a good option for beginners is total nonsense. Giving consumers options is always good.

thinking without having ... sounds more like guessing.

i think its somewhere in the rules that you should backup your claims with facts.

without using/having the camera how do you do that ?

its just countering the DPR opinion.

We don't live in vacuum...DPR is not the universe...there are other sources of information and comment we can also take into account to get a fuller picture. Is this not true?

 

[JasperD]

That's a silly point, we're talking about gear here, something tangible and reachable. Reviews on that, when interested, I compare, when more interested I lay hands on the gear, then make up my own mind. You buy on positive review only? From someone not owing the gear?

This is my last interference in this thread btw, I've said enough and will stand by my words, that I don't see where Jan takes his credentials from to alter DPR's conclusions.

 

[JanKritzinger]

I don't see where Jan takes his credentials from to alter DPR's conclusions.

I've said over and over that my conclusions are based on observations and facts produced by DPR themselves in their review. You state that I can't do this, without referencing a single instance where I made an erroneous conclusion based on DPR's facts and observations.

I must conclude therefore that you simply feel it is wrong for me to disgree with DPR, without actually considering the points I disagree on.

 

[JanKritzinger]

Don't worry, I will have my NEX in a few weeks and then I will be out taking photos in stead of posting here, mostly.

 

[Marti58]

I-R LL and more ... all have made simulair remarks
--
All my Post Processing is done with Capture NX2

http://www.flickr.com/photos/marti58/

 

[JanKritzinger]

If you actually read my original post you'd see that it's completely in line with IR and LL reviews.

 

[WilsonsLandscapes]

I-R LL and more ... all have made simulair remarks
--
All my Post Processing is done with Capture NX2

http://www.flickr.com/photos/marti58/

I-R actually has very positive feeling about the NEX. the negative reviews on other hand are quite different in emphasis from conclusions of photographers in say Tokyo and Hong Kong where the NEX cams are flying off the shelves and stores can not keep up with demand

what most reviews which focus on the UI (DPR and LL) are saying is obvious from glancing at a couple pictures of the NEX cam, there are few buttons so many things must be done in the menu. others who accept the obvious, look at the pro's and con's balanced, see that the con's are workable and do not get in the way most of the time.

Landscape, urban, and other photography the cam will do quite well as also with family and usual personal photography. size and convenience outweigh the occasional need to spend 4 or 5 seconds altering ISO or white balance.

to think of the NEX as a failure for those reasons is quite ridiculous and naive. proof is in the immediate sales upon release in countries already.

i know a few pro's in Hong Kong and Taiwan who give thumbs up for back up use in their photography and do not seem to be troubled with the UI in any way. if a man can not make it work for him or feel it lives up to his dreams of what the NEX should have been that is his own issue. others will be happy as a clam and obtaining the results of more expensive cams which are twice the size, three times the price, and littered with buttons.

image quality first priority as always unless you like to just talk cams and play with them at the table.

Mike

--
"Shoot in the mountains as often as you can, it will change your life"

 

[felixhsieh]

I've only had it for a couple days so I can only give you my first hands-on impressions, but here's how I would (re-)order the pros and cons (for brevity, I won't relist any point that I agree with):

Pros

• Small, innovative design : but comfort may vary; With the screen tilted up (shooting from the waist), it's surprisingly comfortable to use an overhand grip with the thumb on the shutter release. In a standard grip with the first finger on the shutter release, some people may find the lower right of the camera body digs into the palm.
• Metal barrelled lenses feel impressive compared to peers : But only the outer casing on the 18-55mm; at the tele-end, the barrel extends, revealing a plastic section which has a little play. Not terrible, but something to keep in mind. Fortunately there's no zoom creep at the wide.

Toss-up

• Built-in user guide (Shooting Tips) : I'd like an option to turn it off and reassign the unused button to something more useful. But if you're just starting out and need to refer to it constantly, it's a nice addition without having to dig through help menus or carry around a booklet.
• Consumes battery very quickly if you use the screen a lot between shots : so far in my experience, I find this to be true when compared to shooting with a DSLR (I have a 5DM2). But it's not so drastic, and I think if the target market is comprised mostly of P&S users who are content with taking snapshots throughout the day (rather than pros who can easily exceed 1000 shots in an assignment), the battery should suffice. YMMV.
• Screw-on flash awkward to attach : Yes, but if you shoot outdoors a lot and seldom need the flash, this might not be a big issue. We also have yet to see what other accessories Sony will make. If Sony releases an EVF, I will most likely keep that attached and just forget about the flash.

Cons

• Lack of function menu makes settings changes in PASM modes unnecessarily long-winded : This is certainly true, but I can't say yet if this is going to become a nuisance. On the other hand, for a new photographer, the menu (even if organized somewhat arbitrarily) looks simpler to use compared to a DSLR, so even though it's more difficult to change settings, it could be "psychologically" more user friendly. Toss-up.
• Slow startup and poor shot-to-shot times compared to a DSLR : Definitely not as snappy as a DSLR, but not infuriatingly slow. Interestingly enough, when using A-mount lenses with the LA-EA1 adapter, the startup time is much faster. Of course A-mount lenses are (currently) MF-only.
• Very limited video control (no aperture control or exposure lock) : Canon was able to fix this problem on the 5DM2 with a firmware update. I'd like Sony to do the same, but I won't get my hopes up.
• Live histogram unavailable when making exposure changes : Changing EV is easy to do, but without the histogram, you have to rely on the display for judging exposure (or else be patient and review your pictures). When outdoors with sunlight affecting the readability of the display, this will be problematic.

Other thoughts:

Regarding MF assist (live magnification): When using A-mount lenses with the LA-EA1 adapter, the lower soft button changes to "MF assist", so in order to activate it, you need to stretch your thumb back to reach the button. Depending on your hands, this may cause your hand posture to change and may make focusing on a subject (temporarily) more difficult. With E-mount lenses, MF assist is automatically activated when turning the focus ring, but you will still need to reach back to the lower soft button to toggle between x7.0 and x14.0. Not the most annoying problem, but assigning MF assist to the top soft button would make it a little easier to use.

I only have the 18-55mm kit, but the AF motor is much quieter (almost dead-silent) than on my Pana 20/1.7. That might not be a good comparison though, so take it with a grain of salt.

I stopped by the camera shop and tried the SAL70300G and SAL2470Z. Size and weight are not a good match. However I think something like the SAL85F14Z would actually be a nice match. And even though the LA-EA1 adapter adds to the size, it actually gives your left hand more room to work, rather than keeping both hands cramped near the mount.

This is a very small detail, but vertical strap loops are wonderful . They help keep the lens pointed straight down, rather than keep the body horizontal with the lens pulling it down at an angle. With a strap crossed over your shoulder, the camera feels like it hugs your chest.

 

[JanKritzinger]

no text

 

[zxaar]

I've said it many times - I think the DPR review is great. The sheer mountain of information they provide is much appreciated.

I only disagree with the conclusions they arrive at, and the pros and cons they choose to focus on, at the end of the review.

In stead of just telling me; " how dare you disagree with DPR review!?!?! "

Why don't you rather point out where I was unreasonable in my version of the conclusions?

Here you go:

Note I have at least held the camera for few minutes and played with UI.

Lack of function menu makes settings changes in PASM modes unnecessarily long-winded

Its subjective thing, after i played with it i liked it. And since it is selling well in japan, all those people also think it was good enough for them.

Plus how a subjective thing ends up in CON list. You could mention what you feel in side, but can not list as CON.

Slow startup and poor shot-to-shot times compared to a DSLR

Wouldn't be even mentioned. Should be only compared in cameras of its class. If it does better than what you actually have you can not put it into CONs.

Very limited video control (no aperture control or exposure lock)

How much control for this price range is going to fall under PROs then??? Or just because it is not RED one it has to be creticised. Plus how does it do in video department compared to same cams in class.

If you actually read what I wrote you'd find that I was being quite objective. A 'fanboyish' version would've been very different.

--
::> I could not learn to spell 'cos God always ate my homework.

 

[felixhsieh]

Slow startup and poor shot-to-shot times compared to a DSLR

Wouldn't be even mentioned. Should be only compared in cameras of its class. If it does better than what you actually have you can not put it into CONs.

Maybe, but I can still flip open my P&S TX7 and take a picture in under a second. Quality isn't the same of course, but since Sony is marketing the NEX as a P&S replacement (at least for some people who want to upgrade), relatively quick startup will be an expectation for some people.

 

[safaridon]

It's pretty clear you are again acting against their review, just by using the same layout. Alas, you don't have the camera in your hands, so nothing of what you write can be a valid assessment of the pros and cons, only wild guesses, preferences or your own wishlists. As long as that lasts, yes, this is just another fanboy's thread.

While doing so, you are inducing unknowing people coming here for the first time in search of some information, into confusion, it's a shame they let you go on with it really. Nothing against liking some piece of gear or not, but back it up with facts, please, from owing and using the equipment!

--What about the equally compelling argument on the other side of why publish a review of a camera before it even becomes available to handle or use for the majority of us and then for the unprecidented summary recommendation to perhaps not buy this product but wait for the next one? And what about all the many endorsements of the DPRs review when they also have not either even handled or used the same? So there are two valid sides to this issue? Note a number of other reviews from other countries have been more favorable overall to the NEXs then were the Landscape and DPRs. After all in PASM modes with wheel the exposure compensation or change in aperature or shutter speed can be rapidly changed?

I come from the position of being a strong advocate of the m4/3 format because of size but being attracted to the NEX5 for its even smaller body size and special features to being more cautious after reading some of the reviews. However seeing the projected significantly larger size and shape of the rumored NEX7 & NEX9 having more controls and features the reviews are demanding come to realize with their much larger size would destroy much of their small format that attracted me to the NEX5 in the first place and I could live with most of its reported shortcomings, only give me a small kit prime lens of about 20mm or 30mm instead and hopefully soon a small firmware patch for faster & easier control both of which seem logical could occur? And I do think there will be competition to the NEXs coming in the not distant future from Pany so this should really become very interesting and exciting.