New Z8 Firmware Update 3.00 : Pixel Shift

[Horshack]

Has anyone evaluated Nikon Z mount lenses for focus shift? I'm excited about the "focus with open aperture" option when shooting in my studio because my studio overhead lights are sometimes not bright enough when I'm stopped down to f/8 for my strobes. But if the Nikon Z lenses were designed with the expectation they'll focus at the shooting aperture (down to f/5.6) then maybe they didn't optimize for minimizing focus shift and the option might reduce my hit rate.

I posted a video last week on a quick and easy method to check if a given Z lens has focus shift. I posted results for the 50Z f/1.8 in the video. Haven't gotten around to checking other lenses. Thread:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/68317037

 

[Ryan Mack]

Has anyone evaluated Nikon Z mount lenses for focus shift? I'm excited about the "focus with open aperture" option when shooting in my studio because my studio overhead lights are sometimes not bright enough when I'm stopped down to f/8 for my strobes. But if the Nikon Z lenses were designed with the expectation they'll focus at the shooting aperture (down to f/5.6) then maybe they didn't optimize for minimizing focus shift and the option might reduce my hit rate.

I posted a video last week on a quick and easy method to check if a given Z lens has focus shift. I posted results for the 50Z f/1.8 in the video. Haven't gotten around to checking other lenses. Thread:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/68317037

Cool, thank you. Yeah I have some lens focus testing ruler thing I used to use for adjusting my old DSLR lenses I figured I could test with. Not a pressing issue. And I suppose since I'm usually stopping down to f/8 or f/13 in the studio it's probably not going to matter if there's a bit of shift.

 

[Crispy_Bee]

Has anyone evaluated Nikon Z mount lenses for focus shift? I'm excited about the "focus with open aperture" option when shooting in my studio because my studio overhead lights are sometimes not bright enough when I'm stopped down to f/8 for my strobes. But if the Nikon Z lenses were designed with the expectation they'll focus at the shooting aperture (down to f/5.6) then maybe they didn't optimize for minimizing focus shift and the option might reduce my hit rate.

Not sure what you mean by "evaluate" but I can tell you it works with no issues on the 24-70 f4.0, 24-120 f4.0, micro nikkor 50mm 2.8 and micro nikkor 105mm 2.8.

Just make sure you familiarize yourself with the menu and settings, the step length in particular should be at a rather low setting. The results are far better than manual focus shift or using a focussing rail. It's just too bad Nikon doesn't (yet) have a native +2x lens.

 

[Ryan Mack]

Has anyone evaluated Nikon Z mount lenses for focus shift? I'm excited about the "focus with open aperture" option when shooting in my studio because my studio overhead lights are sometimes not bright enough when I'm stopped down to f/8 for my strobes. But if the Nikon Z lenses were designed with the expectation they'll focus at the shooting aperture (down to f/5.6) then maybe they didn't optimize for minimizing focus shift and the option might reduce my hit rate.

Not sure what you mean by "evaluate" but I can tell you it works with no issues on the 24-70 f4.0, 24-120 f4.0, micro nikkor 50mm 2.8 and micro nikkor 105mm 2.8.

Just make sure you familiarize yourself with the menu and settings, the step length in particular should be at a rather low setting. The results are far better than manual focus shift or using a focussing rail. It's just too bad Nikon doesn't (yet) have a native +2x lens.

Sorry I’m referring to the focus shifting that occurs when you focus at an open aperture and then stop down before taking the photo. On some lenses the focus changes meaningfully when stopping down. Since the Z cameras stop down before focusing now the possibility exists that the Z lenses are optimized for other qualities than minimizing focus shift.

 

[primeshooter]

Has anyone evaluated Nikon Z mount lenses for focus shift? I'm excited about the "focus with open aperture" option when shooting in my studio because my studio overhead lights are sometimes not bright enough when I'm stopped down to f/8 for my strobes. But if the Nikon Z lenses were designed with the expectation they'll focus at the shooting aperture (down to f/5.6) then maybe they didn't optimize for minimizing focus shift and the option might reduce my hit rate.

It was a stupid way of setting up the cameras to start with. They are merely aware of their mistake from feedback, no doubt. Focus shift will not be a sky is falling moment here, as you state when you are at f13 in a studio shift matters not.

 

[Vince P]

Has anyone evaluated Nikon Z mount lenses for focus shift? I'm excited about the "focus with open aperture" option when shooting in my studio because my studio overhead lights are sometimes not bright enough when I'm stopped down to f/8 for my strobes. But if the Nikon Z lenses were designed with the expectation they'll focus at the shooting aperture (down to f/5.6) then maybe they didn't optimize for minimizing focus shift and the option might reduce my hit rate.

It was a stupid way of setting up the cameras to start with. They are merely aware of their mistake from feedback, no doubt. Focus shift will not be a sky is falling moment here, as you state when you are at f13 in a studio shift matters not.

It's great to have it as an option and it's very welcome. But it's a balance it's not like the cameras, used properly, caused many problems even in low light so in the majority of cases it's better as was.

Breathing matters at closer focusing distances. Especially for macro or even head shots. At 5.6 or even F8. It was a problem on DSLRs - some lenses were even sold as corrected for it. Also without a shutter in the way that sensor is apparently vulnerable to bright light with a fast aperture lens wide open.

 

[Ryan Schwartz]

The focus limiter seems like a great feature but also looks tedious to set based on the demonstration to dial in the distances. I feel like this is something that A.I. should be able to take control of in the future.

--
Ryan

 

[sirhawkeye64]

For anyone who's interested, Matt Granger did a video going over the new v3.0 firmware and showing some of the new features:

(Not sure if I posted this or not already. Forgive me if I did.)

 

[primeshooter]

Has anyone evaluated Nikon Z mount lenses for focus shift? I'm excited about the "focus with open aperture" option when shooting in my studio because my studio overhead lights are sometimes not bright enough when I'm stopped down to f/8 for my strobes. But if the Nikon Z lenses were designed with the expectation they'll focus at the shooting aperture (down to f/5.6) then maybe they didn't optimize for minimizing focus shift and the option might reduce my hit rate.

It was a stupid way of setting up the cameras to start with. They are merely aware of their mistake from feedback, no doubt. Focus shift will not be a sky is falling moment here, as you state when you are at f13 in a studio shift matters not.

It's great to have it as an option and it's very welcome. But it's a balance it's not like the cameras, used properly, caused many problems even in low light so in the majority of cases it's better as was.

Believe me it was a problem trying to get accurate, repeatable focus with stobes shooting at f11 when he aperture was stuck at 5.6. Do you know how dark it is in a studio with these setups. Now we can use 2.8 or f1.4 and get thay accuracy.

Breathing matters at closer focusing distances. Especially for macro or even head shots. At 5.6 or even F8. It was a problem on DSLRs - some lenses were even sold as corrected for it. Also without a shutter in the way that sensor is apparently vulnerable to bright light with a fast aperture lens wide open.

It does but not as much as you think when you are significantly stopped down. It's why nikon have added this. The d850 nailed focus in studio better than all the ML line so far because it was using the wide apertures to obtain it.

 

[Terrible Photographer]

I love Pixel-Shift!

I shoot alot of architecture and I use Pixel Shift all the time.

It's everything I need to combat moire. That said, the way Nikon does it is ass-backwards and needs be to done in-camera like what Olympus does. There is no reason for them to have done that when Oly did it a decade ago.

 

[madecov]

I'm just waiting for this update. I've got an XQD waiting.

 

[photography-lover]

For landscape & architecture photography the new Z8 firmware 3.00 update with pixel shift , focus shift , etc. could be a real advancements ! If you are a landscape & architecture photographer - how do you plan to use the new Z8 firmware update with pixel shift and other new features to improve your images ?

So … pixels shift was added in FW v2.00. It’s nothing new.

What is new in 3.0 is the ability to combine PS with either focus shift or AE bracketing.

I doubt this will be useful for landscape, since a 32-image PS stack takes a while and sling that with either FS or AEB will almost certainly result in subject-movement artifacts.

For architecture it would be great, especially for perspective corrections with PS + FS. You end up with a series of images where everything is sharp from near to far, and you have a really high-resolution image for large prints.

Helicon focus is much better than PS for focus stacking. Now leverages GPU since v6.0 if I am not mistaken, even faster.

 

[photography-lover]

My best landscape shots are when light is changing fastest... either clouds or golden hour. Pixel shift with changing light causes pattern noise. I wrote my own software to correct for exposure differences between pixel shift images but it only works if the change to illumination is global which isn't always the case.

Outside of studio still life and art reproduction I find AI-based solutions better, and this is coming from a guy who wrote his own pixel-shift software. My software can avoid blending the portions of images with subject motion (foliage) but generally speaking it's just not a great use case.

So with my Zf, it captures 32 images in ~6 seconds. Not sure about the Z8. If one doesn't feel the need to do the entire set, a subset could suffice in a shorter timespan, perhaps still with some benefits?
Pushing AI generated pixels vs photography, that's probably better left as a personal choice...

The thing being that with landscape the capture time of each image is often long due to using base ISO, often shooting early or late when the light is now.

Combining pixel shift and DoF stacking would result in hundreds of images which would typically take several minutes.

I used to do that manually with pano stitching combined with DoF stacking and it is rare that the light doesn't change enough to cause significant issues.

 

[Vince P]

Has anyone evaluated Nikon Z mount lenses for focus shift? I'm excited about the "focus with open aperture" option when shooting in my studio because my studio overhead lights are sometimes not bright enough when I'm stopped down to f/8 for my strobes. But if the Nikon Z lenses were designed with the expectation they'll focus at the shooting aperture (down to f/5.6) then maybe they didn't optimize for minimizing focus shift and the option might reduce my hit rate.

It was a stupid way of setting up the cameras to start with. They are merely aware of their mistake from feedback, no doubt. Focus shift will not be a sky is falling moment here, as you state when you are at f13 in a studio shift matters not.

It's great to have it as an option and it's very welcome. But it's a balance it's not like the cameras, used properly, caused many problems even in low light so in the majority of cases it's better as was.

Believe me it was a problem trying to get accurate, repeatable focus with stobes shooting at f11 when he aperture was stuck at 5.6. Do you know how dark it is in a studio with these setups. Now we can use 2.8 or f1.4 and get thay accuracy.

Breathing matters at closer focusing distances. Especially for macro or even head shots. At 5.6 or even F8. It was a problem on DSLRs - some lenses were even sold as corrected for it. Also without a shutter in the way that sensor is apparently vulnerable to bright light with a fast aperture lens wide open.

It does but not as much as you think when you are significantly stopped down. It's why nikon have added this. The d850 nailed focus in studio better than all the ML line so far because it was using the wide apertures to obtain it.

I spend a fair bit of time in a studio. Never had a problem with a black ambient, at F11 or F8 or any aperture even the Z7 focuses really well. For me Z8 Z9 are significantly better, in those conditions than D850 D5 etc. But I know for some reason some people struggle so it's great they are adding it.

 

[primeshooter]

Has anyone evaluated Nikon Z mount lenses for focus shift? I'm excited about the "focus with open aperture" option when shooting in my studio because my studio overhead lights are sometimes not bright enough when I'm stopped down to f/8 for my strobes. But if the Nikon Z lenses were designed with the expectation they'll focus at the shooting aperture (down to f/5.6) then maybe they didn't optimize for minimizing focus shift and the option might reduce my hit rate.

It was a stupid way of setting up the cameras to start with. They are merely aware of their mistake from feedback, no doubt. Focus shift will not be a sky is falling moment here, as you state when you are at f13 in a studio shift matters not.

It's great to have it as an option and it's very welcome. But it's a balance it's not like the cameras, used properly, caused many problems even in low light so in the majority of cases it's better as was.

Believe me it was a problem trying to get accurate, repeatable focus with stobes shooting at f11 when he aperture was stuck at 5.6. Do you know how dark it is in a studio with these setups. Now we can use 2.8 or f1.4 and get thay accuracy.

Breathing matters at closer focusing distances. Especially for macro or even head shots. At 5.6 or even F8. It was a problem on DSLRs - some lenses were even sold as corrected for it. Also without a shutter in the way that sensor is apparently vulnerable to bright light with a fast aperture lens wide open.

It does but not as much as you think when you are significantly stopped down. It's why nikon have added this. The d850 nailed focus in studio better than all the ML line so far because it was using the wide apertures to obtain it.

I spend a fair bit of time in a studio. Never had a problem with a black ambient, at F11 or F8 or any aperture even the Z7 focuses really well. For me Z8 Z9 are significantly better, in those conditions than D850 D5 etc. But I know for some reason some people struggle so it's great they are adding it.

I know. Ive heard you write this here IIRC. But it flies in the face of some prominent studio guys I know and my own experience, and you can be absolutely certain I know how to shoot and so do they. I am glad it works for you; Nikon clearly found an issue with the system to offer it...you making out it is their skillset causing the problem here or mine, it's not our skillset causing the problem. It's the camera trying to focus through 5.6 aperture, when the D850 has access to the lenses widest aperture. It's more consistent.

 

[Vince P]

Has anyone evaluated Nikon Z mount lenses for focus shift? I'm excited about the "focus with open aperture" option when shooting in my studio because my studio overhead lights are sometimes not bright enough when I'm stopped down to f/8 for my strobes. But if the Nikon Z lenses were designed with the expectation they'll focus at the shooting aperture (down to f/5.6) then maybe they didn't optimize for minimizing focus shift and the option might reduce my hit rate.

It was a stupid way of setting up the cameras to start with. They are merely aware of their mistake from feedback, no doubt. Focus shift will not be a sky is falling moment here, as you state when you are at f13 in a studio shift matters not.

It's great to have it as an option and it's very welcome. But it's a balance it's not like the cameras, used properly, caused many problems even in low light so in the majority of cases it's better as was.

Believe me it was a problem trying to get accurate, repeatable focus with stobes shooting at f11 when he aperture was stuck at 5.6. Do you know how dark it is in a studio with these setups. Now we can use 2.8 or f1.4 and get thay accuracy.

Breathing matters at closer focusing distances. Especially for macro or even head shots. At 5.6 or even F8. It was a problem on DSLRs - some lenses were even sold as corrected for it. Also without a shutter in the way that sensor is apparently vulnerable to bright light with a fast aperture lens wide open.

It does but not as much as you think when you are significantly stopped down. It's why nikon have added this. The d850 nailed focus in studio better than all the ML line so far because it was using the wide apertures to obtain it.

I spend a fair bit of time in a studio. Never had a problem with a black ambient, at F11 or F8 or any aperture even the Z7 focuses really well. For me Z8 Z9 are significantly better, in those conditions than D850 D5 etc. But I know for some reason some people struggle so it's great they are adding it.

I know. Ive heard you write this here IIRC. But it flies in the face of some prominent studio guys I know and my own experience, and you can be absolutely certain I know how to shoot and so do they. I am glad it works for you; Nikon clearly found an issue with the system to offer it...you making out it is their skillset causing the problem here or mine, it's not our skillset causing the problem. It's the camera trying to focus through 5.6 aperture, when the D850 has access to the lenses widest aperture. It's more consistent.

I didn't say it's not useful just no need for me, or anyone I've come across in a studio.

We could get into a back and forth but the unfortunate and painful truth is always - if even one person, can use a tool, it's definitively impossible for the tool to be the problem.

There are definitely some very prominent studio guys as you call them managing without problems. If they stand to lose high 5 or even 6 figures a day I expect they would choose the best tools..

 

[primeshooter]

Has anyone evaluated Nikon Z mount lenses for focus shift? I'm excited about the "focus with open aperture" option when shooting in my studio because my studio overhead lights are sometimes not bright enough when I'm stopped down to f/8 for my strobes. But if the Nikon Z lenses were designed with the expectation they'll focus at the shooting aperture (down to f/5.6) then maybe they didn't optimize for minimizing focus shift and the option might reduce my hit rate.

It was a stupid way of setting up the cameras to start with. They are merely aware of their mistake from feedback, no doubt. Focus shift will not be a sky is falling moment here, as you state when you are at f13 in a studio shift matters not.

It's great to have it as an option and it's very welcome. But it's a balance it's not like the cameras, used properly, caused many problems even in low light so in the majority of cases it's better as was.

Believe me it was a problem trying to get accurate, repeatable focus with stobes shooting at f11 when he aperture was stuck at 5.6. Do you know how dark it is in a studio with these setups. Now we can use 2.8 or f1.4 and get thay accuracy.

Breathing matters at closer focusing distances. Especially for macro or even head shots. At 5.6 or even F8. It was a problem on DSLRs - some lenses were even sold as corrected for it. Also without a shutter in the way that sensor is apparently vulnerable to bright light with a fast aperture lens wide open.

It does but not as much as you think when you are significantly stopped down. It's why nikon have added this. The d850 nailed focus in studio better than all the ML line so far because it was using the wide apertures to obtain it.

I spend a fair bit of time in a studio. Never had a problem with a black ambient, at F11 or F8 or any aperture even the Z7 focuses really well. For me Z8 Z9 are significantly better, in those conditions than D850 D5 etc. But I know for some reason some people struggle so it's great they are adding it.

I know. Ive heard you write this here IIRC. But it flies in the face of some prominent studio guys I know and my own experience, and you can be absolutely certain I know how to shoot and so do they. I am glad it works for you; Nikon clearly found an issue with the system to offer it...you making out it is their skillset causing the problem here or mine, it's not our skillset causing the problem. It's the camera trying to focus through 5.6 aperture, when the D850 has access to the lenses widest aperture. It's more consistent.

I didn't say it's not useful just no need for me, or anyone I've come across in a studio.

We could get into a back and forth but the unfortunate and painful truth is always - if even one person, can use a tool, it's definitively impossible for the tool to be the problem.

Again, claiming its the skillset of the guys i know isn't helping your case here. Also, those "people" could be using work arounds, like secondary lights and what not, they also could be a bit economical with the truth that it always works and works perfectly. I doubt that's the case for any camera. This move, will make it much more accurate and more repeatable, up to 6X the light hitting the AF modules...impossible for it not to gain accuracy in that situation I'd imagine! If we are to believe you, then there is zero issue. Nikon rarely changes things in firmware if it isn't to improve things. So the next question is why they are adding it if the Z7 and Z7ii and Z8 are perfectly accurate in studio trying to focus in dark at 5.6. Ridiculous not to see what is right in front of you here.

There are definitely some very prominent studio guys as you call them managing without problems. If they stand to lose high 5 or even 6 figures a day I expect they would choose the best tools..

They are simply shooting through slight focus misses. It will be more accurate now; you can be sure of that. Otherwise, why else would the camera focus at maximum aperture now if set...why would they make that a function if not to improve accuracy.

Do you know a little story? I've been here for a very long time. And a ways ago, there was this camera Nikon released called the D800, which had a huge problem called the Left AF issue, and also the story about the D800's seriously inconsistent focus problem which many users experienced. (That was actually later found to be linked to cracked subframes, which could occur with no visible damage to the body externally. The frames had poor pours, and the frame was too thin and had a sharp turn in it, leading it to be easily under tension and break. When it broke, it through out the AF module and related alignment. The D810 was hush changed to have 1. a stronger frame and 2. was changed to a plastic mirrorbox so that if damage occured it would shear off and the camera wouldn't be left as a total writeoff as in the case of many D800s that broke and where examined by Nikon). I was one of the one's that helped break that story here, and all I got at the time were people like you telling me I didn't know how to work a camera. Guess they where wrong, huh?

 

[Vince P]

Has anyone evaluated Nikon Z mount lenses for focus shift? I'm excited about the "focus with open aperture" option when shooting in my studio because my studio overhead lights are sometimes not bright enough when I'm stopped down to f/8 for my strobes. But if the Nikon Z lenses were designed with the expectation they'll focus at the shooting aperture (down to f/5.6) then maybe they didn't optimize for minimizing focus shift and the option might reduce my hit rate.

It was a stupid way of setting up the cameras to start with. They are merely aware of their mistake from feedback, no doubt. Focus shift will not be a sky is falling moment here, as you state when you are at f13 in a studio shift matters not.

It's great to have it as an option and it's very welcome. But it's a balance it's not like the cameras, used properly, caused many problems even in low light so in the majority of cases it's better as was.

Believe me it was a problem trying to get accurate, repeatable focus with stobes shooting at f11 when he aperture was stuck at 5.6. Do you know how dark it is in a studio with these setups. Now we can use 2.8 or f1.4 and get thay accuracy.

Breathing matters at closer focusing distances. Especially for macro or even head shots. At 5.6 or even F8. It was a problem on DSLRs - some lenses were even sold as corrected for it. Also without a shutter in the way that sensor is apparently vulnerable to bright light with a fast aperture lens wide open.

It does but not as much as you think when you are significantly stopped down. It's why nikon have added this. The d850 nailed focus in studio better than all the ML line so far because it was using the wide apertures to obtain it.

I spend a fair bit of time in a studio. Never had a problem with a black ambient, at F11 or F8 or any aperture even the Z7 focuses really well. For me Z8 Z9 are significantly better, in those conditions than D850 D5 etc. But I know for some reason some people struggle so it's great they are adding it.

I know. Ive heard you write this here IIRC. But it flies in the face of some prominent studio guys I know and my own experience, and you can be absolutely certain I know how to shoot and so do they. I am glad it works for you; Nikon clearly found an issue with the system to offer it...you making out it is their skillset causing the problem here or mine, it's not our skillset causing the problem. It's the camera trying to focus through 5.6 aperture, when the D850 has access to the lenses widest aperture. It's more consistent.

I didn't say it's not useful just no need for me, or anyone I've come across in a studio.

We could get into a back and forth but the unfortunate and painful truth is always - if even one person, can use a tool, it's definitively impossible for the tool to be the problem.

Again, claiming its the skillset of the guys i know isn't helping your case here. Also, those "people" could be using work arounds, like secondary lights and what not, they also could be a bit economical with the truth that it always works and works perfectly. I doubt that's the case for any camera. This move, will make it much more accurate and more repeatable, up to 6X the light hitting the AF modules...impossible for it not to gain accuracy in that situation I'd imagine!

There are definitely some very prominent studio guys as you call them managing without problems. If they stand to lose high 5 or even 6 figures a day I expect they would choose the best tools..

They are simply shooting through slight focus misses. It will be more accurate now; you can be sure of that. Otherwise, why else would the camera focus at maximum aperture now if set...why would they make that a function if not to improve accuracy.

For nearly all lenses it won't be more accurate but in very low light, challenging subjects and or with low contrast situations then more light will give an advantage in acquisition and maintaining AF. A studio is none of them. It is also my personal experience no workarounds and I haven't needed modelling lights for years Z or DSLR.
I wasn't "Blaming" anyone it's the same logic I have also had to apply many times.

 

[primeshooter]

Has anyone evaluated Nikon Z mount lenses for focus shift? I'm excited about the "focus with open aperture" option when shooting in my studio because my studio overhead lights are sometimes not bright enough when I'm stopped down to f/8 for my strobes. But if the Nikon Z lenses were designed with the expectation they'll focus at the shooting aperture (down to f/5.6) then maybe they didn't optimize for minimizing focus shift and the option might reduce my hit rate.

It was a stupid way of setting up the cameras to start with. They are merely aware of their mistake from feedback, no doubt. Focus shift will not be a sky is falling moment here, as you state when you are at f13 in a studio shift matters not.

It's great to have it as an option and it's very welcome. But it's a balance it's not like the cameras, used properly, caused many problems even in low light so in the majority of cases it's better as was.

Believe me it was a problem trying to get accurate, repeatable focus with stobes shooting at f11 when he aperture was stuck at 5.6. Do you know how dark it is in a studio with these setups. Now we can use 2.8 or f1.4 and get thay accuracy.

Breathing matters at closer focusing distances. Especially for macro or even head shots. At 5.6 or even F8. It was a problem on DSLRs - some lenses were even sold as corrected for it. Also without a shutter in the way that sensor is apparently vulnerable to bright light with a fast aperture lens wide open.

It does but not as much as you think when you are significantly stopped down. It's why nikon have added this. The d850 nailed focus in studio better than all the ML line so far because it was using the wide apertures to obtain it.

I spend a fair bit of time in a studio. Never had a problem with a black ambient, at F11 or F8 or any aperture even the Z7 focuses really well. For me Z8 Z9 are significantly better, in those conditions than D850 D5 etc. But I know for some reason some people struggle so it's great they are adding it.

I know. Ive heard you write this here IIRC. But it flies in the face of some prominent studio guys I know and my own experience, and you can be absolutely certain I know how to shoot and so do they. I am glad it works for you; Nikon clearly found an issue with the system to offer it...you making out it is their skillset causing the problem here or mine, it's not our skillset causing the problem. It's the camera trying to focus through 5.6 aperture, when the D850 has access to the lenses widest aperture. It's more consistent.

I didn't say it's not useful just no need for me, or anyone I've come across in a studio.

We could get into a back and forth but the unfortunate and painful truth is always - if even one person, can use a tool, it's definitively impossible for the tool to be the problem.

Again, claiming its the skillset of the guys i know isn't helping your case here. Also, those "people" could be using work arounds, like secondary lights and what not, they also could be a bit economical with the truth that it always works and works perfectly. I doubt that's the case for any camera. This move, will make it much more accurate and more repeatable, up to 6X the light hitting the AF modules...impossible for it not to gain accuracy in that situation I'd imagine!

There are definitely some very prominent studio guys as you call them managing without problems. If they stand to lose high 5 or even 6 figures a day I expect they would choose the best tools..

They are simply shooting through slight focus misses. It will be more accurate now; you can be sure of that. Otherwise, why else would the camera focus at maximum aperture now if set...why would they make that a function if not to improve accuracy.

For nearly all lenses it won't be more accurate but in very low light, challenging subjects and or with low contrast situations then more light will give an advantage in acquisition and maintaining AF. A studio is none of them. It is also my personal experience no workarounds and I haven't needed modelling lights for yeare Z or DSLR.
I wasn't "Blaming" anyone it's the same logic I have also had to apply many times.

So you admit it then lol. Studio is very low light often, and low contrast before the strobes light the scene...You are one of these shooters that thinks low light is when you can't see anything; no, that's "no light". So many shooters now think low light means proper exposure is ISO 12800, 1/200 and f/1.4. No, that's no light. Low light is when you hit ISO 800, 1/200 and 1.4. How times change.

 

[Horshack]

Has anyone evaluated Nikon Z mount lenses for focus shift? I'm excited about the "focus with open aperture" option when shooting in my studio because my studio overhead lights are sometimes not bright enough when I'm stopped down to f/8 for my strobes. But if the Nikon Z lenses were designed with the expectation they'll focus at the shooting aperture (down to f/5.6) then maybe they didn't optimize for minimizing focus shift and the option might reduce my hit rate.

It was a stupid way of setting up the cameras to start with. They are merely aware of their mistake from feedback, no doubt. Focus shift will not be a sky is falling moment here, as you state when you are at f13 in a studio shift matters not.

It's great to have it as an option and it's very welcome. But it's a balance it's not like the cameras, used properly, caused many problems even in low light so in the majority of cases it's better as was.

Believe me it was a problem trying to get accurate, repeatable focus with stobes shooting at f11 when he aperture was stuck at 5.6. Do you know how dark it is in a studio with these setups. Now we can use 2.8 or f1.4 and get thay accuracy.

Breathing matters at closer focusing distances. Especially for macro or even head shots. At 5.6 or even F8. It was a problem on DSLRs - some lenses were even sold as corrected for it. Also without a shutter in the way that sensor is apparently vulnerable to bright light with a fast aperture lens wide open.

It does but not as much as you think when you are significantly stopped down. It's why nikon have added this. The d850 nailed focus in studio better than all the ML line so far because it was using the wide apertures to obtain it.

I spend a fair bit of time in a studio. Never had a problem with a black ambient, at F11 or F8 or any aperture even the Z7 focuses really well. For me Z8 Z9 are significantly better, in those conditions than D850 D5 etc. But I know for some reason some people struggle so it's great they are adding it.

I know. Ive heard you write this here IIRC. But it flies in the face of some prominent studio guys I know and my own experience, and you can be absolutely certain I know how to shoot and so do they. I am glad it works for you; Nikon clearly found an issue with the system to offer it...you making out it is their skillset causing the problem here or mine, it's not our skillset causing the problem. It's the camera trying to focus through 5.6 aperture, when the D850 has access to the lenses widest aperture. It's more consistent.

I didn't say it's not useful just no need for me, or anyone I've come across in a studio.

We could get into a back and forth but the unfortunate and painful truth is always - if even one person, can use a tool, it's definitively impossible for the tool to be the problem.

Again, claiming its the skillset of the guys i know isn't helping your case here. Also, those "people" could be using work arounds, like secondary lights and what not, they also could be a bit economical with the truth that it always works and works perfectly. I doubt that's the case for any camera. This move, will make it much more accurate and more repeatable, up to 6X the light hitting the AF modules...impossible for it not to gain accuracy in that situation I'd imagine!

There are definitely some very prominent studio guys as you call them managing without problems. If they stand to lose high 5 or even 6 figures a day I expect they would choose the best tools..

They are simply shooting through slight focus misses. It will be more accurate now; you can be sure of that. Otherwise, why else would the camera focus at maximum aperture now if set...why would they make that a function if not to improve accuracy.

For nearly all lenses it won't be more accurate but in very low light, challenging subjects and or with low contrast situations then more light will give an advantage in acquisition and maintaining AF. A studio is none of them. It is also my personal experience no workarounds and I haven't needed modelling lights for years Z or DSLR.
I wasn't "Blaming" anyone it's the same logic I have also had to apply many times.

Depends what one classifies as "very low light". In my video below I demonstrate AF issues with Nikon's stopped-down AF in EV 2 lighting (1/80 f/2 ISO 8000) on the Z8 - note the AF is rated down to -7EV for AF by Nikon, importantly that rating is only with a f/1.2 aperture lens focused at f/1.2. I then demonstrate how those issues are resolved by focusing with the aperture open, which is the feature Nikon is adding to FW 3.0 on the Z8.