New vs old sensor tech?

[GeoffRG]

that said my main features I’m looking to upgrade is

1 a faster more accurate autofocus

2 slightly faster burst rate (I’d be more than satisfied with 8fps)

3 a little better high iso performance (if I could get up to 3200 clear that’s do all I need)

There are tons of cameras which will fullfill your requirements...

With APS-C I recommend Fuji and with FF any brand will do the job.

The new R8 kind of has my attention currently.

Looks good to me !

I know it's not apsc like I inquired about but was just curious if they could be considered as a smaller more discreet option. Also considering just finding a low milage 5D4 body. In the youtube videos though even the budget RF glass seems miles ahead of my old stuff. (With the exception of the old trusty 24-70 2.8 and 85 1.2)

I suggest you forget DSLR, it will loose its value.. It is, in my opinion, a huge error and I do not understand at all the current prices.

If you know exactly what you do, you know you won't need to upgrade later, you won't need smaller/lighter system, why not.. It may be a question of money but if later you try to sell your gear to buy a new system, your gear will have lost lot's of value..

Honestly it is really really difficult to recommend to buy DSLR today..

But again this is my opinion, nothing else !

If one already has professional Canon lenses I don't know why you wouldn't recommend a 5D iv - the best DSLR Canon produced after all . The sensor is still great and in 10 years it will still work fantastically.

I agree, anyone with a collection of lenses is going to have to spend a lot of money to move to mirrorless. It makes sense to just upgrade the body, especially if you can pick up a lightly used one at a good price.

 

[chrisfisheye]

that said my main features I’m looking to upgrade is

1 a faster more accurate autofocus

2 slightly faster burst rate (I’d be more than satisfied with 8fps)

3 a little better high iso performance (if I could get up to 3200 clear that’s do all I need)

There are tons of cameras which will fullfill your requirements...

With APS-C I recommend Fuji and with FF any brand will do the job.

The new R8 kind of has my attention currently.

Looks good to me !

I know it's not apsc like I inquired about but was just curious if they could be considered as a smaller more discreet option. Also considering just finding a low milage 5D4 body. In the youtube videos though even the budget RF glass seems miles ahead of my old stuff. (With the exception of the old trusty 24-70 2.8 and 85 1.2)

I suggest you forget DSLR, it will loose its value.. It is, in my opinion, a huge error and I do not understand at all the current prices.

If you know exactly what you do, you know you won't need to upgrade later, you won't need smaller/lighter system, why not.. It may be a question of money but if later you try to sell your gear to buy a new system, your gear will have lost lot's of value..

Honestly it is really really difficult to recommend to buy DSLR today..

But again this is my opinion, nothing else !

If one already has professional Canon lenses I don't know why you wouldn't recommend a 5D iv - the best DSLR Canon produced after all . The sensor is still great and in 10 years it will still work fantastically.

It is a dead end..

Of course, it is good, it will remain good.. but when you will see the coming improvements made with mirroless there is a very "high" risk to be tempted.

Who will buy his gear in 10 years ??? They will have stopped DSLR anyway so this will be quite difficult to sell it.

It is really better to anticipate these questions for the op...

And to be honest I do not understand the current prices of DSLR. It is way too expensive for a dead end system.

 

[GeoffRG]

that said my main features I’m looking to upgrade is

1 a faster more accurate autofocus

2 slightly faster burst rate (I’d be more than satisfied with 8fps)

3 a little better high iso performance (if I could get up to 3200 clear that’s do all I need)

There are tons of cameras which will fullfill your requirements...

With APS-C I recommend Fuji and with FF any brand will do the job.

The new R8 kind of has my attention currently.

Looks good to me !

I know it's not apsc like I inquired about but was just curious if they could be considered as a smaller more discreet option. Also considering just finding a low milage 5D4 body. In the youtube videos though even the budget RF glass seems miles ahead of my old stuff. (With the exception of the old trusty 24-70 2.8 and 85 1.2)

I suggest you forget DSLR, it will loose its value.. It is, in my opinion, a huge error and I do not understand at all the current prices.

If you know exactly what you do, you know you won't need to upgrade later, you won't need smaller/lighter system, why not.. It may be a question of money but if later you try to sell your gear to buy a new system, your gear will have lost lot's of value..

Honestly it is really really difficult to recommend to buy DSLR today..

But again this is my opinion, nothing else !

If one already has professional Canon lenses I don't know why you wouldn't recommend a 5D iv - the best DSLR Canon produced after all . The sensor is still great and in 10 years it will still work fantastically.

It is a dead end..

Of course, it is good, it will remain good.. but when you will see the coming improvements made with mirroless there is a very "high" risk to be tempted.

Who will buy his gear in 10 years ??? They will have stopped DSLR anyway so this will be quite difficult to sell it.

It is really better to anticipate these questions for the op...

And to be honest I do not understand the current prices of DSLR. It is way too expensive for a dead end system.

I drive a 12 year old car from a manufacturer that ceased trading 11 years ago. Is that a dead end? Take a look at one of the used camera websites and you’ll see plenty of 10+ year old cameras for sale. Just because something is out of production doesn’t stop it from performing as well as it did when it was new.



Older cameras still sell, my local store has a Nikon F5 and there are F4S bodies around. I have what you may consider a strange approach to equipment, Hi-Fi, cars, computers and of course cameras. Once I have bought something the money is gone, if some years later I sell it I consider that a bonus. Thus, for me buying into what you call a “dead end” isn’t a problem because I don’t expect to get anything back. I’ll happily give old kit away if I don’t sell it.



You have a “first world” approach to equipment “get the latest irrespective of cost”. My attitude is get the best tool you can afford and use it until you have a good reason to retire or replace it. If TE-28 is happy to keep older lenses and put the money into a 5D IV what’s that to you?



For what it’s worth, mirrorless cameras aren’t a panacea, they’re tools for taking photographs. Good thought they may be there are circumstances in which a mirrorless camera isn’t the best tool. Consider this, I didn’t throw away my screwdrivers when electric impact drivers became available. Both have their place. The same thing true of mirrorless and SLRs both have their places.

 

[RubenJ]

that said my main features I’m looking to upgrade is

1 a faster more accurate autofocus

2 slightly faster burst rate (I’d be more than satisfied with 8fps)

3 a little better high iso performance (if I could get up to 3200 clear that’s do all I need)

There are tons of cameras which will fullfill your requirements...

With APS-C I recommend Fuji and with FF any brand will do the job.

The new R8 kind of has my attention currently.

Looks good to me !

I know it's not apsc like I inquired about but was just curious if they could be considered as a smaller more discreet option. Also considering just finding a low milage 5D4 body. In the youtube videos though even the budget RF glass seems miles ahead of my old stuff. (With the exception of the old trusty 24-70 2.8 and 85 1.2)

I suggest you forget DSLR, it will loose its value.. It is, in my opinion, a huge error and I do not understand at all the current prices.

If you know exactly what you do, you know you won't need to upgrade later, you won't need smaller/lighter system, why not.. It may be a question of money but if later you try to sell your gear to buy a new system, your gear will have lost lot's of value..

Honestly it is really really difficult to recommend to buy DSLR today..

But again this is my opinion, nothing else !

If one already has professional Canon lenses I don't know why you wouldn't recommend a 5D iv - the best DSLR Canon produced after all . The sensor is still great and in 10 years it will still work fantastically.

It is a dead end..

Of course, it is good, it will remain good.. but when you will see the coming improvements made with mirroless there is a very "high" risk to be tempted.

Who will buy his gear in 10 years ??? They will have stopped DSLR anyway so this will be quite difficult to sell it.

It is really better to anticipate these questions for the op...

And to be honest I do not understand the current prices of DSLR. It is way too expensive for a dead end system.

People like you are so interesting to listen to! I got a 10 year old 5D iii for $300 some time back. Second hand markets are flooded here with those. Quite some time back when the 5D ii was 10 years old I acquired one for $300 also. So I guess the 5D iv will be worth around the same or a bit less? Who cares? Maybe it'll be worth $150. That's 150 difference over 10 years. What do you think a now new mirrorless will earn you in 10 years? I guess....not so much. If the iv is sufficient, go for it and enjoy, it's a masterpiece. And it will stay that way. I had an amateur portrait shoot yesterday with the 1Ds ii and iii. Marvellous! Though you might be surprised somebody still uses them because they're so old tech.

 

[PhotoTeach2]

that said my main features I’m looking to upgrade is

1 a faster more accurate autofocus

2 slightly faster burst rate (I’d be more than satisfied with 8fps)

3 a little better high iso performance (if I could get up to 3200 clear that’s do all I need)

There are tons of cameras which will fullfill your requirements...

With APS-C I recommend Fuji and with FF any brand will do the job.

The new R8 kind of has my attention currently.

Looks good to me !

I know it's not apsc like I inquired about but was just curious if they could be considered as a smaller more discreet option. Also considering just finding a low milage 5D4 body. In the youtube videos though even the budget RF glass seems miles ahead of my old stuff. (With the exception of the old trusty 24-70 2.8 and 85 1.2)

I suggest you forget DSLR, it will loose its value.. It is, in my opinion, a huge error and I do not understand at all the current prices.

If you know exactly what you do, you know you won't need to upgrade later, you won't need smaller/lighter system, why not.. It may be a question of money but if later you try to sell your gear to buy a new system, your gear will have lost lot's of value..

Honestly it is really really difficult to recommend to buy DSLR today..

But again this is my opinion, nothing else !

If one already has professional Canon lenses I don't know why you wouldn't recommend a 5D iv - the best DSLR Canon produced after all . The sensor is still great and in 10 years it will still work fantastically.

It is a dead end..

Of course, it is good, it will remain good.. but when you will see the coming improvements made with mirroless there is a very "high" risk to be tempted.

Who will buy his gear in 10 years ??? They will have stopped DSLR anyway so this will be quite difficult to sell it.

It is really better to anticipate these questions for the op...

And to be honest I do not understand the current prices of DSLR. It is way too expensive for a dead end system.

I drive a 12 year old car from a manufacturer that ceased trading 11 years ago. Is that a dead end? Take a look at one of the used camera websites and you’ll see plenty of 10+ year old cameras for sale. Just because something is out of production doesn’t stop it from performing as well as it did when it was new.

Older cameras still sell, my local store has a Nikon F5 and there are F4S bodies around. I have what you may consider a strange approach to equipment, Hi-Fi, cars, computers and of course cameras. Once I have bought something the money is gone, if some years later I sell it I consider that a bonus. Thus, for me buying into what you call a “dead end” isn’t a problem because I don’t expect to get anything back. I’ll happily give old kit away if I don’t sell it.

You have a “first world” approach to equipment “get the latest irrespective of cost”. My attitude is get the best tool you can afford and use it until you have a good reason to retire or replace it. If TE-28 is happy to keep older lenses and put the money into a 5D IV what’s that to you?

For what it’s worth, mirrorless cameras aren’t a panacea, they’re tools for taking photographs. Good thought they may be there are circumstances in which a mirrorless camera isn’t the best tool. Consider this, I didn’t throw away my screwdrivers when electric impact drivers became available. Both have their place. The same thing true of mirrorless and SLRs both have their places.

The title of this thread is OLD vs NEW tech. So what is the "place" today for older-technology of dSLR's ???

Obviously if you are satisfied the the (older) limited envelope of dSLR, then I agree they can still take excellent images within their older/limited envelope.

But ML widened the envelope, and now stacked-sensors widened it even more, (for those that want/need it).

1.) Shorter latency-lag to the EVF,

2.) Faster AF,

3.) No black-out between shots,

4.) No "jello" effect, (as this video above illustrates -

)

5.) 20-40fps,

6.) Shorter (possibly important) time between shots during bracketing and HDR, (20-40fps rate vs 5-10fps)

So ignore the above if you don't want/need the expanded envelope.

Ignore the above if 100% of your shots are still-portrait/landscape, and you always hold the camera directly to your eye so you never need a flip-LCD, then stick w/ dSLR. (but don't say that dSLR has Live-View to allow flip LCD screens because that was only a half-ass attempt to imitate ML that had limitations)

 

[Guy Parsons]

.

Do you know where the chart in this post originally came from ???

I found it within

at 8:11 into the video. The author says that he made the chart and while it may not be 100% accurate it will be pretty close to the truth.

 

[Guy Parsons]

Fast accurate AF is my #1 reason for looking for an upgrade as 95% of my shooting is as I'm walking/moving and shooting "from the hip" vs actually stopping and setting up a shot. I enjoy being discreet when taking photos and not drawing attention to myself as that makes surrounding people aware of what I'm doing and they don't look natural.

I've long used compact cameras for that purpose.

The latest for me being the Sony RX100M6 which does all that I need for discreet shots and in fact can be all that I need to carry when on holiday. Easy to carry and access in a small belt pouch.

The 20MP on a 1" sensor works well and better if using raw files and DxO Photolab. I never use its EVF, I only use the tilt screen for shooting. The AF is good.

The current RX100M7 model has truly superb AF, using technology borrowed from the Sony system cameras.

 

[PhotoTeach2]

.

Do you know where the chart in this post originally came from ???

I found it within

at 8:11 into the video. The author says that he made the chart and while it may not be 100% accurate it will be pretty close to the truth.

Thank You for that ... it is very interesting and indicates how each (newer) camera, (even stacked-sensors) get faster and faster.

I see the faster write/read-out time advantageous to:

1.) Shorter latency-lag to the EVF,

2.) Faster AF,

3.) No black-out between shots,

4.) No "jello" effect, (as the video above illustrates)

5.) 20-40fps,

6.) Shorter (possibly important) time between shots during bracketing and HDR, (20-40fps rate vs 5-10fps).

 

[PhotoTeach2]

It seems that in the last generations (Son anyways) quite a lot of emphasis is put on speed, and less so in the sensor output quality performance. Sony A7R IV,V, Sony A7IV seem to produce more noise than older models. Not happy about it, as I do not shoot bursts...

The difference in noise is very small and easily removed through post processing resulting in identical visible noise. Regardless the noise performance is much better than his 5Dii.

Everything and everybody has a limit. Indeed it is not a complete dealbreaker, but for example if I wanted to upgrade, I would have no reason. There is nothing for customer such as me, wanting just a box with a shutter button, and best sensor performance... There are reasons for the current situation, of course, it´s just noteworthy that not everything gets better, and yes, statistically, it might be best choice for the manufacturer, but some people might skip for that reason. But of course, upgrades are not always balanced. Once it is FPS upgrade, once it is quality upgrade, and so on. It is healthy for the manufacturer to not give it all at once.

If all you want is the (limited) envelope of a "box w/ shutter-button", then read no further.

But this thread is about new vs old technology and newest (stacked sensor) technology has widened the envelope wider than ML did from (the limited-envelope of) dSLR.

It enables:

1.) Shorter latency-lag to the EVF,

2.) Faster AF,

3.) No black-out between shots,

4.) No "jello" effect, (as this video above illustrates -

)

5.) 20-40fps,

6.) Shorter (possibly important) time between shots during bracketing and HDR, (20-40fps rate vs 5-10fps)

 

[crashpc]

It seems that in the last generations (Son anyways) quite a lot of emphasis is put on speed, and less so in the sensor output quality performance. Sony A7R IV,V, Sony A7IV seem to produce more noise than older models. Not happy about it, as I do not shoot bursts...

The difference in noise is very small and easily removed through post processing resulting in identical visible noise. Regardless the noise performance is much better than his 5Dii.

Everything and everybody has a limit. Indeed it is not a complete dealbreaker, but for example if I wanted to upgrade, I would have no reason. There is nothing for customer such as me, wanting just a box with a shutter button, and best sensor performance... There are reasons for the current situation, of course, it´s just noteworthy that not everything gets better, and yes, statistically, it might be best choice for the manufacturer, but some people might skip for that reason. But of course, upgrades are not always balanced. Once it is FPS upgrade, once it is quality upgrade, and so on. It is healthy for the manufacturer to not give it all at once.

If all you want is the (limited) envelope of a "box w/ shutter-button", then read no further.

But this thread is about new vs old technology and newest (stacked sensor) technology has widened the envelope wider than ML did from (the limited-envelope of) dSLR.

It enables:

1.) Shorter latency-lag to the EVF,

2.) Faster AF,

3.) No black-out between shots,

4.) No "jello" effect, (as this video above illustrates -

)

5.) 20-40fps,

6.) Shorter (possibly important) time between shots during bracketing and HDR, (20-40fps rate vs 5-10fps)

It narrowed the envelope in sensor performance where I need it. That was my point. Also you are applying general advantages where they don't apply. For my soon to be new hobby "forest photography", Eye AF doesn't work on a mushroom. Fast FPS doesn't work on a stand still tree. Black out EVF worsens nothing. So the wide envelope does not enable me to do anything better here. These cameras have no power here. Sensor does.

 

[sybersitizen]

that said my main features I’m looking to upgrade is

1 a faster more accurate autofocus

2 slightly faster burst rate (I’d be more than satisfied with 8fps)

3 a little better high iso performance (if I could get up to 3200 clear that’s do all I need)

Then indeed, a modern BSI sensor would help you tremendously, as it has much faster, much more sophisticated AF, and more FPS on top of that.

I think you meant to say stacked sensor when talking about those things you mentioned. BSI doesn't increase processing speed.

 

[RubenJ]

It seems that in the last generations (Son anyways) quite a lot of emphasis is put on speed, and less so in the sensor output quality performance. Sony A7R IV,V, Sony A7IV seem to produce more noise than older models. Not happy about it, as I do not shoot bursts...

The difference in noise is very small and easily removed through post processing resulting in identical visible noise. Regardless the noise performance is much better than his 5Dii.

Everything and everybody has a limit. Indeed it is not a complete dealbreaker, but for example if I wanted to upgrade, I would have no reason. There is nothing for customer such as me, wanting just a box with a shutter button, and best sensor performance... There are reasons for the current situation, of course, it´s just noteworthy that not everything gets better, and yes, statistically, it might be best choice for the manufacturer, but some people might skip for that reason. But of course, upgrades are not always balanced. Once it is FPS upgrade, once it is quality upgrade, and so on. It is healthy for the manufacturer to not give it all at once.

If all you want is the (limited) envelope of a "box w/ shutter-button", then read no further.

But this thread is about new vs old technology and newest (stacked sensor) technology has widened the envelope wider than ML did from (the limited-envelope of) dSLR.

It enables:

1.) Shorter latency-lag to the EVF,

2.) Faster AF,

3.) No black-out between shots,

4.) No "jello" effect, (as this video above illustrates -

)

5.) 20-40fps,

6.) Shorter (possibly important) time between shots during bracketing and HDR, (20-40fps rate vs 5-10fps)

In just one page you already post thee times the same reply. Stop that

 

[PhotoTeach2]

It seems that in the last generations (Son anyways) quite a lot of emphasis is put on speed, and less so in the sensor output quality performance. Sony A7R IV,V, Sony A7IV seem to produce more noise than older models. Not happy about it, as I do not shoot bursts...

The difference in noise is very small and easily removed through post processing resulting in identical visible noise. Regardless the noise performance is much better than his 5Dii.

Everything and everybody has a limit. Indeed it is not a complete dealbreaker, but for example if I wanted to upgrade, I would have no reason. There is nothing for customer such as me, wanting just a box with a shutter button, and best sensor performance... There are reasons for the current situation, of course, it´s just noteworthy that not everything gets better, and yes, statistically, it might be best choice for the manufacturer, but some people might skip for that reason. But of course, upgrades are not always balanced. Once it is FPS upgrade, once it is quality upgrade, and so on. It is healthy for the manufacturer to not give it all at once.

If all you want is the (limited) envelope of a "box w/ shutter-button", then read no further.

But this thread is about new vs old technology and newest (stacked sensor) technology has widened the envelope wider than ML did from (the limited-envelope of) dSLR.

It enables:

1.) Shorter latency-lag to the EVF,

2.) Faster AF,

3.) No black-out between shots,

4.) No "jello" effect, (as this video above illustrates -

)

5.) 20-40fps,

6.) Shorter (possibly important) time between shots during bracketing and HDR, (20-40fps rate vs 5-10fps)

In just one page you already post thee times the same reply. Stop that

Yeah, I know, and apologize ... but I keep adding to the list because I think of other benefits. (the first post was originally only 3 items)

 

[Rene Gr]

For undemanding purposes/viewing, even ISO 51200 is doable with less than modern sensor (non BSI, non stacked). These are just some random test shots from such sensor (Nikon Z5, rooting back to Nikon D600 times) without any composition efforts:

Those images are treated with noise reduction, albeit in a very good way. Was it done in camera?

Here is another test: (1) Original RAW (2) Manual Lightroom Denoise (3) AI Lightroom Denoise. It shows that noise handling is very good now in post-processing. The results would be only a bit worse on APS-C.


ISO 51200 on Nikon Z5, no noise reduction, default sharpening


ISO 51200, Manual Lightroom Denoise


ISO 51200, Lightroom AI Denoise

 

[tbcass]

Hello,

The Canon sensor is not really good, Canon was really behind Sony sensors (used by Fuji for instance) , I think now the gap now is much smaller:

https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Canon/EOS-5D-Mark-II

For instance consider the low light ISO score, 1815. Though higher than common APS-C sensors (around 1500); it is very low for FF, it should be 1 stop better (around 3300). This means that the sensor is less efficient and in many use cases, the current APS-C sensors will be better !

The dynamic range is also very low for FF (11.9)...

Canon was slow to incorporate new technologies in their sensors but they've caught up now.

 

[Smaug01]

IMO, there's no point in going to mirrorless APS-C, when you already have FF lenses. (and Canon's are pretty well compatible with just a simple mount adapter)

You will give up some depth-of-field control and will likely wind up buying all new lenses to cover the normal and wide angle ranges.

You may end up upgrading to glass native to the Canon RF mount eventually, but at least there's no hurry if you're still FF.

Rather than save money by going with a smaller sensor, I think it'd be smarter to just get a more entry level body in the FF.

 

[crashpc]

For undemanding purposes/viewing, even ISO 51200 is doable with less than modern sensor (non BSI, non stacked). These are just some random test shots from such sensor (Nikon Z5, rooting back to Nikon D600 times) without any composition efforts:

Those images are treated with noise reduction, albeit in a very good way. Was it done in camera?

Here is another test:

Yes, I have ETTRd these shots and denoised in LR AI. There is something in the SNR , dynamic range and overall contrast coming through the lens that it certainly looks like more than 1 stop advantage. DPR comparison tool shows that too. On the other hand with FF I have to treat depth of field with more respect and consciousness, and often stop down some more, to have everything in focus, mitigating that one stop advantage. Not a bighie. It's more interesting to be more carefull with the tool.

 

[chrisfisheye]

that said my main features I’m looking to upgrade is

1 a faster more accurate autofocus

2 slightly faster burst rate (I’d be more than satisfied with 8fps)

3 a little better high iso performance (if I could get up to 3200 clear that’s do all I need)

There are tons of cameras which will fullfill your requirements...

With APS-C I recommend Fuji and with FF any brand will do the job.

The new R8 kind of has my attention currently.

Looks good to me !

I know it's not apsc like I inquired about but was just curious if they could be considered as a smaller more discreet option. Also considering just finding a low milage 5D4 body. In the youtube videos though even the budget RF glass seems miles ahead of my old stuff. (With the exception of the old trusty 24-70 2.8 and 85 1.2)

I suggest you forget DSLR, it will loose its value.. It is, in my opinion, a huge error and I do not understand at all the current prices.

If you know exactly what you do, you know you won't need to upgrade later, you won't need smaller/lighter system, why not.. It may be a question of money but if later you try to sell your gear to buy a new system, your gear will have lost lot's of value..

Honestly it is really really difficult to recommend to buy DSLR today..

But again this is my opinion, nothing else !

If one already has professional Canon lenses I don't know why you wouldn't recommend a 5D iv - the best DSLR Canon produced after all . The sensor is still great and in 10 years it will still work fantastically.

It is a dead end..

Of course, it is good, it will remain good.. but when you will see the coming improvements made with mirroless there is a very "high" risk to be tempted.

Who will buy his gear in 10 years ??? They will have stopped DSLR anyway so this will be quite difficult to sell it.

It is really better to anticipate these questions for the op...

And to be honest I do not understand the current prices of DSLR. It is way too expensive for a dead end system.

People like you are so interesting to listen to! I got a 10 year old 5D iii for $300 some time back. Second hand markets are flooded here with those. Quite some time back when the 5D ii was 10 years old I acquired one for $300 also. So I guess the 5D iv will be worth around the same or a bit less? Who cares? Maybe it'll be worth $150. That's 150 difference over 10 years. What do you think a now new mirrorless will earn you in 10 years? I guess....not so much. If the iv is sufficient, go for it and enjoy, it's a masterpiece. And it will stay that way. I had an amateur portrait shoot yesterday with the 1Ds ii and iii. Marvellous! Though you might be surprised somebody still uses them because they're so old tech.

Canon 5DMIV: 2300 euros new..

Nothing to add, this tells everything ;-)

 

[RubenJ]

that said my main features I’m looking to upgrade is

1 a faster more accurate autofocus

2 slightly faster burst rate (I’d be more than satisfied with 8fps)

3 a little better high iso performance (if I could get up to 3200 clear that’s do all I need)

There are tons of cameras which will fullfill your requirements...

With APS-C I recommend Fuji and with FF any brand will do the job.

The new R8 kind of has my attention currently.

Looks good to me !

I know it's not apsc like I inquired about but was just curious if they could be considered as a smaller more discreet option. Also considering just finding a low milage 5D4 body. In the youtube videos though even the budget RF glass seems miles ahead of my old stuff. (With the exception of the old trusty 24-70 2.8 and 85 1.2)

I suggest you forget DSLR, it will loose its value.. It is, in my opinion, a huge error and I do not understand at all the current prices.

If you know exactly what you do, you know you won't need to upgrade later, you won't need smaller/lighter system, why not.. It may be a question of money but if later you try to sell your gear to buy a new system, your gear will have lost lot's of value..

Honestly it is really really difficult to recommend to buy DSLR today..

But again this is my opinion, nothing else !

If one already has professional Canon lenses I don't know why you wouldn't recommend a 5D iv - the best DSLR Canon produced after all . The sensor is still great and in 10 years it will still work fantastically.

It is a dead end..

Of course, it is good, it will remain good.. but when you will see the coming improvements made with mirroless there is a very "high" risk to be tempted.

Who will buy his gear in 10 years ??? They will have stopped DSLR anyway so this will be quite difficult to sell it.

It is really better to anticipate these questions for the op...

And to be honest I do not understand the current prices of DSLR. It is way too expensive for a dead end system.

People like you are so interesting to listen to! I got a 10 year old 5D iii for $300 some time back. Second hand markets are flooded here with those. Quite some time back when the 5D ii was 10 years old I acquired one for $300 also. So I guess the 5D iv will be worth around the same or a bit less? Who cares? Maybe it'll be worth $150. That's 150 difference over 10 years. What do you think a now new mirrorless will earn you in 10 years? I guess....not so much. If the iv is sufficient, go for it and enjoy, it's a masterpiece. And it will stay that way. I had an amateur portrait shoot yesterday with the 1Ds ii and iii. Marvellous! Though you might be surprised somebody still uses them because they're so old tech.

Canon 5DMIV: 2300 euros new..

Nothing to add, this tells everything ;-)

I very well hope you understood that I meant $300 over 10 years for a mark iv, not right now.

 

[chrisfisheye]

that said my main features I’m looking to upgrade is

1 a faster more accurate autofocus

2 slightly faster burst rate (I’d be more than satisfied with 8fps)

3 a little better high iso performance (if I could get up to 3200 clear that’s do all I need)

There are tons of cameras which will fullfill your requirements...

With APS-C I recommend Fuji and with FF any brand will do the job.

The new R8 kind of has my attention currently.

Looks good to me !

I know it's not apsc like I inquired about but was just curious if they could be considered as a smaller more discreet option. Also considering just finding a low milage 5D4 body. In the youtube videos though even the budget RF glass seems miles ahead of my old stuff. (With the exception of the old trusty 24-70 2.8 and 85 1.2)

I suggest you forget DSLR, it will loose its value.. It is, in my opinion, a huge error and I do not understand at all the current prices.

If you know exactly what you do, you know you won't need to upgrade later, you won't need smaller/lighter system, why not.. It may be a question of money but if later you try to sell your gear to buy a new system, your gear will have lost lot's of value..

Honestly it is really really difficult to recommend to buy DSLR today..

But again this is my opinion, nothing else !

If one already has professional Canon lenses I don't know why you wouldn't recommend a 5D iv - the best DSLR Canon produced after all . The sensor is still great and in 10 years it will still work fantastically.

It is a dead end..

Of course, it is good, it will remain good.. but when you will see the coming improvements made with mirroless there is a very "high" risk to be tempted.

Who will buy his gear in 10 years ??? They will have stopped DSLR anyway so this will be quite difficult to sell it.

It is really better to anticipate these questions for the op...

And to be honest I do not understand the current prices of DSLR. It is way too expensive for a dead end system.

People like you are so interesting to listen to! I got a 10 year old 5D iii for $300 some time back. Second hand markets are flooded here with those. Quite some time back when the 5D ii was 10 years old I acquired one for $300 also. So I guess the 5D iv will be worth around the same or a bit less? Who cares? Maybe it'll be worth $150. That's 150 difference over 10 years. What do you think a now new mirrorless will earn you in 10 years? I guess....not so much. If the iv is sufficient, go for it and enjoy, it's a masterpiece. And it will stay that way. I had an amateur portrait shoot yesterday with the 1Ds ii and iii. Marvellous! Though you might be surprised somebody still uses them because they're so old tech.

Canon 5DMIV: 2300 euros new..

Nothing to add, this tells everything ;-)

I very well hope you understood that I meant $300 over 10 years for a mark iv, not right now.

For fair comparisons, you have to compare with the same conditions.

So new vs new.

In this case, I can certainly find a cheap used mirrorless, it is really difficult to make fair comparisons with used cameras.