New Camera Help

[IamBrad]

Hi, I’m lost in the quagmire of choices. I’ll start with a bit about me…

approaching retirement and looking to get back into photography as a hobby. My film experience goes back to the 70’s and several semesters of photo shop in jr and sr high school. Then I went into the film business for ten years doing lighting and rigging (I was a Grip). Since the early 90’s it’s just been point and shoot snapshots, fist on small digi cameras, then lately just the iPhone

what strikes me the most as I have been trying to catch up on a few decades, is the vast array of choices and basing those choices on the style of photography I’m interested in.



cost is also mind blowing. Based on that, I’ve given the iPhone a real go at it (I have the 15 pro max). I’m sure you all are aware of the limitations. What kills me is everything is software based and if I want to use the entire chip, there really aren’t 9 lenses or whatever they claim, there is only one. I don’t like that I can’t manipulate the settings entirely, etc.

now,I’m looking for something of a one size fits all. I’m interested in everything from landscapes and seascapes to nature (flowers), to studio still life’s. Not so much portraits, action/sports.
I want raw files. I’ve been learning Lightroom. Largest printing I would do is 8x10. I actually like the 5x7 format a lot. Majority of stuff would remain digital and shared on social media. I’m not looking to earn an income, but there is a possibility of doing calendars or small framed prints for gifts or maybe fund raiser donations, stuff lie, that



I’ve sort of zeroed in on the Sony line. I have an old cybershot, so I’m familiar with the wheel and user interface. I’m not real thrilled with adjusting the aperture in the software Vs a ring on the lens

full frame or apc, sounds like either would be fine for me. I don’t have a frame of reference for what “low light” means. I’d mostly be daylight. I’ve got a LED light package already, so anything I’d do in a “studio” would be lit well

good autofocus is important, but I want to make sure I can set focus anywhere in the frame. I like doing stuff with shallow depth of field and often what I want in focus will be outside the focus spot in the lens (I’m surely not using correct terminology here)

my budget is preferably under 2500 for body and lens. I’m not 100% opposed to used, but I’m a tech guy so it’s hard for me not to have newest/latest/greatest (I realize greatest won’t come to me at this price point)

sorry this got so long, it all seems to be relevant in making the choice

thanks in advance

 

[Mark Sloe]

Very good introduction, considering you are not into action/sports/moving wildlife leaves many solid options, so let's narrow it down a bit more:

1. lenses - which lenses would you be interested in? Just a standard zoom or 2-3 primes? Or a zoom and 1-2 primes? Which focal length?

2. does size/weight matter/how important is it to you to save size/weight? Or would you rather prefer full size body for better handling?

--
https://500px.com/mark_sloe

 

[ahaslett]

You don’t say where you live or what currency the 2,500 is in. I’m guessing that means USA.

Almost any camera will give good prints at that size. Here is my small travel kit.

Plus spare battery and tiny FL-LM3 flash

Body plus 12-45/4 lens as a kit is often on offer for around £1,000. The PL 25/4 mk I used was £250, and the Laowa 10/2 new £410.

One advantage of buying an OMDS (Olympus as was) body is the free RAW processor that even has AI noise reduction.

I’m going to suggest a used Sony A7C and a new 20-70/4 (when next on discount). With this camera, you point at the subject in CAF-Tr and recompose to frame, makes placing the focus point rather easy. EyeAF is pretty good, so it will hold onto a face and eye as you move the camera and the subject moves.

If your budget will stretch a bit, I just bought a Sony A7CR with free 128Gb card for £2,250 and a 20-70/4 for £1050 (after cashback). The lens is cheaper at list in the US, but maybe discounts are less common. That is a whole step up from a used A7C and would satisfy your love of latest and best.

MFT and E mounts have the largest catalogue of mirrorless lenses and have been going long enough that the used market is quite active.

Once you make your choice, the next problem is how highly functional and configurable modern mirrorless cameras are. Hours of fun reading the manual, trying to work out how and when to use functions like precapture, subject detection, bulb mode, liveND, pixel shift high res…

Choosing a mount is pretty important to your later options and costs. Z, RF, E, L, X, MFT are the leading mirrorless ones. Mounts with more than one body vendor and where Sigma, Tamron and others (Voigtlaender, Laowa, TTArtisans…) all sell lenses, have more competition and more choices.

Now read as many recommendations as there are posters!

Andrew

--
Infinite are the arguments of mages. Truth is a jewel with many facets. Ursula K LeGuin
Please feel free to edit any images that I post

 

[IamBrad]

It seems like a zoom would be the most versatile for me. I know the aperture goes up with those, which likely contributes to the low light / chip size conversation. Perhaps one zoom then a wider prime with a lower f stop? It’s hard to speculate, but I do know I’m into flower photography, not quite macro, but close up

i have big hands and the little cybershot I’ve got is challenging- probably will get worse as I age

I don’t think size and weight are a concern. I won’t be backpacking, or flying with carryon only

 

[IamBrad]

Hi, yeah, $USD - sorry, you know America centric we can be

 

[ahaslett]

Hi, yeah, $USD - sorry, you know America centric we can be

I'm not familiar with the US market, but you seem to have something called Greentoe that might be worth investigating.

I'm going to firm up on my recommendation of an A7C, maybe a used A7Cii, and a 20-70/4 as your starting kit. All depends on your local prices.

I'm just starting to get used to my 2 day old A7CR and my 20-70/4 is arriving tomorrow.

Dustin Abbott reviews the 20-70/4 as the do everything Sony landscape lens, and adds that it can be used for many other things as well. I agree, hence my purchase now the UK price is more in line with the US.

So far, I'm very impressed with the feel of the A7CR and I think the A7C is basically the same, but with lower resolution and less functionality.

Andrew

 

[Mark Sloe]

It seems like a zoom would be the most versatile for me. I know the aperture goes up with those, which likely contributes to the low light / chip size conversation. Perhaps one zoom then a wider prime with a lower f stop? It’s hard to speculate, but I do know I’m into flower photography, not quite macro, but close up

i have big hands and the little cybershot I’ve got is challenging- probably will get worse as I age

I don’t think size and weight are a concern. I won’t be backpacking, or flying with carryon only

Buying used would allow you to stretch your budget into newer tech and is pretty safe from reputable second-hand dealers.

If you want to stick with Sony:

A7RIV is a beast of a camera even by today's standards - 61MP sensor, vast dynamic range, real-time tracking,... The 4th generation A7 also came with slightly larger body and improved ergonomics/user experience. Sony's lens ecosystem is the richest in the mirrorless world offering options for any use and any budget (with an exception of a solid 28mm prime). I picked the Sony 24-105/4 as I am a happy owner, it pretty much lives on my camera, very versatile for what you want to shoot, optically excellent, nice sunstars, close-ups are OK-ish. There are other solid options - Tamron 28-75/2.8 offers closer focus and faster aperture at the expense of range, Sigma 24-70/2.8 is optically brilliant and gives you the 24mm wide end and focusses down to 30cm, but is a bit hefty, or Tamron 28-200/2.8-4 redefines superzoom category with great performance across the entire zoom range. You get more reach but lose on the wide end (and sunstars).

If my Sony gear got stolen, I would get this:

S1R is a large body just under a kilo, but is very robust, properly weather sealed, boasts great in-body image stabilisation only the most recent high-end bodies from competitors match or surpass, screen tilts vertically and horizontally, has great EVF and screen, some nice computational features (Live composite, focus stacking,...) which may come handy for landscape/seascape. The 24-105/4 by Panasonic is optically one of the best 24-105s out there and focusses down to 30cm, so better for closeups. I like small details about Panasonic's approach, like manual zoom clutch on most lenses, focus magnification option which doesn't zoom the full view but only a frame within the full view, the viewfinder experience, very quiet physical shutter and generally their heading in terms of development philosophy focussed on simplifying workflow. Ecosystem is OK with selection of Panasonic, Sigma and Leica lenses all of which are generally excellent performers but can be on bulky/heavy side compared to competition.

--

500px

500px.com

 

[lokatz]

Your excellent description of what you like and find important is helpful, but let's face it, that still leaves LOTS of choices. Predictably, folks often recommend what they chose themselves, which is understandable but no more helpful (in fact, less so) than reading photo market statistics and going with the biggest seller.

I'll just toss a few general observations into the discussion, hoping they might be helpful:

1. Your AF requirements are no challenge for ANY decent mirrorless body. Any and all ML cameras that have been introduced in the last three to four years will do just fine.

2. Full frame vs APS-C vs MFT, which @ahaslett brought up, won't make much of a difference to you, either. In VERY low light, shooting in near darkness, the larger sensor size is an advantage, but the differences won't really matter to you. Chose whatever you like most and that is in your price range, regardless of sensor format.

3. Something like 20 or 24 MP will serve you just fine. Given what you say about print sizes, buying a higher resolution body would be a waste of money.

4. As a caveat, be prepared for a significant learning curve. All state-of-the-art bodies suffer from featuritis: they have a lot more features than most users ever use or need. This makes the menus complex and some features harder to find.

5. My most relevant advice is to pay attention to ergonomics and haptics. The way a camera feels influences how much fun you have with it. If any chance, I'd recommend visiting a camera store first and holding a few models in your hand that interest you. Canons and Olympus/OMDS bodies, for example, are round where Sony and Fuji are rather edgy. Go with what feels right. Again, the differences between different models in the same price range aren't all that significant.

Just my two cents. Enjoy your photography!

 

[ahaslett]

All good advice Lothar, especially about haptics and interface.

I have multiple bodies and they all have different grips and feel. I like smaller bodies but the Zf and G9ii look like the normative body styles.

I'm waiting for a Sony lens with a fatter body to see but the A7CR with grip extension feels good to me. With smaller lenses the OM5 handles well.

A

 

[IamBrad]

Ok, good in for for me to digest, thanks.

 

[IamBrad]

Thank you, this is helpful

 

[Rodrigo Pasiani]

I'd get a Nikon Z6 II and 24-120 f/4 lens.

Great for close-up and good image quality.

Get the newer Z6 III instead if your budget allows.

 

[MustAg]

cost is also mind blowing. Based on that, I’ve given the iPhone a real go at it (I have the 15 pro max). I’m sure you all are aware of the limitations. What kills me is everything is software based and if I want to use the entire chip, there really aren’t 9 lenses or whatever they claim, there is only one. I don’t like that I can’t manipulate the settings entirely, etc.

Honestly? I find the opposite to be true. Phones are incredibly overpriced nowadays while affordable cameras are getting better (or you can say better cameras are getting cheaper).

I mean it depends on what you wanna shoot, but you can buy everything used and save a pretty penny. If you're only interested in photography then even the a6400 (which can be had for as little as 400 bucks used) will be more than fine if paired with the right lens, and APSC lenses are very cheap (you can probably get something like 18-50mm 2.8 sigma and 56 1.4 sigma for 600 dollars combined). You're still under the 1000 dollars mark for the camera and 2 decent prime lenses that should be plenty for landscapes flowers etc.

If you want a video centric camera maybe the ZV E10 mark II (700-1k) or the original ZV E10 (500 dollars or so used).

If you have a very challenging use case and want to do both photo and video I would recommend the A6700, it's 1400 dollars but it's been on the market for a year so might get lucky and find one used for 200 bucks less or so. With 2 lenses you're looking at about 2k, still well under your 2500 dollars budget. You also get the better AF system and newer better faster readout sensor (you'll get the same sensor with ZV E10 mark ii but not the AF system).

Add a tripod, a ND filter or 2, maybe a flash with a diffuser, and you're looking at 150 bucks extra more or less.

Such a set will be perfectly sufficient for 5 years, maybe 7 if you get the a6700. Then you can sell the camera body for whatever and keep most everything else lol.

Meanwhile the S24 Ultra or iPhone 15 pro max are 1000+ dollars used, 1400 brand new. 3 years on, you'll be lucky to get 500 bucks for it. If you count the cost per year, it'll be almost the same as getting an APSC.

The best phone camera right now is probably what you get with the Vivo X100 Ultra, not the iPhone. It's a 1 inch sensor with a more robust manual mode. You can bet it still won't be anywhere near as good. Not only because of the smaller sensor, but also because phones use miniscule lenses. I guess for landscapes you can get away with just a phone, but even still you'll see how the image falls apart the moment you start zooming in beyond 30%.

I personally won't be buying a flagship or high end phone no more. I'll stick to a decent midranger (pixel A series maybe). Flagship phones are overpriced to hell and back and if you're getting it for the cameras just get a real camera with 2 good lenses. They'll serve you better and last longer.

Just my 2 cents. Good luck!

 

[IamBrad]

I have a skewed perspective on phone cost. I’ve had a new iPhone every two years since they were released, but all company bought

I’ll be taking my current 15 pro max into retirement, which is why I wanted to give it a fair chance, but I hate it for true control. my roots in photography and filmmaking compel me to have total control. I’ve even tried a few third party phone apps, which is how I’ve found myself here

Soooo, when I start looking at a body for ≈2000 and lens ≈1000, it’s a stop and pause moment

I’ve already decided I’ll go into the used market and it looks like my budget affords me a lot of choices. I’ve committed to full frame for a few reasons, even though image quality and resolution requirements could be met with APS-C