Need a little bit head start with Macro.

[holyindian]

Hi all,

I am inclined towards macro shooting, and hence i brought myself a Tamron 90mm f2.8 VC Macro lens. Now after two days with this lens in the field, i realize that i am ending up taking close up photos of flowers/orchids but not extreme closeup. Either i am not able to get too close to the flowers and focus manually, (always remains blur), and if i try to adjust the focus the images turn out to be like a close up image of a flower. Neither the pollens are visible neither the close up of the flowers... same goes with bees and dragon fly's.

I see people taking extreme pictures of a dragon fly's eyes, and various other insects.. how do you manage it? Do i need to use extension tubes to get these kinds of images, or invert my 90mm lens and use the other way?

Do people usually corp pictures to get these kinds of magnified results?

 

[pdxJaxon]

2 ways to do it

1) buy some extension tubes (not too spend)

2) buy a lens connector so that you can mount your lens backwards on camera.

I just started this week and the extension tubes are working well

I just ordered the ring to mount lens backwards. Will see how it does later this week

for shooting you'lll need a flash

f16
iso 100
1/250
Flash with diffuser

good luck

 

[John K]

...I see people taking extreme pictures of a dragon fly's eyes, and various other insects.. how do you manage it? Do i need to use extension tubes to get these kinds of images, or invert my 90mm lens and use the other way?

Do people usually corp pictures to get these kinds of magnified results?

I use Canon's MPE-65mm lens -it's basically a reversed lens with a variable length extension tube built in. More info here Unfortunately the lens costs over 1000 USD...

If you own a Canon camera you can get the EF-S60mm and a set of extension tubes. Macro lenses that have internal focusing (lenses that don't change shape when you turn the focus ring) lose focal length at life size. The EF-S 60mm is a 37mm lens at 1x, so it only takes 37mm of extension to get it to 2x. Also as long as you have at lest 12mm of extension on the lens you can use it on any Canon camera. When I had to send my MPE-65mm in to Canon to get it repaired I used an EF-S 60mm and extension tubes with a 1D Mark III camera and the MT-24EX macro twin flash to take this shot:

I don't use a tripod or focusing rail (always shoot hand held) and I do not crop -so obviously it takes more than just the right hardware to get a shot like that one. For more info check out the links in my signature.

--
Also known as Dalantech
My Book: http://nocroppingzone.blogspot.com/2010/01/extreme-macro-art-of-patience.html
My Blog: www.nocroppingzone.com
My gallery: www.johnkimbler.com
Macro Tutorials: http://dalantech.deviantart.com/gallery/#Tutorials
Always minimal post processing and no cropping -unless you count the viewfinder...

 

[_sem_]

I see people taking extreme pictures of a dragon fly's eyes, and various other insects.. how do you manage it? Do i need to use extension tubes to get these kinds of images, or invert my 90mm lens and use the other way?

Do people usually corp pictures to get these kinds of magnified results?

Most today's macro primes go up to 1:1 optical magnification, which means the object you shoot is same size as the sensor.

Some crop too, but there's a bunch of other approaches...

1) Canon MP-E 65mm does magnifications 1:1 to 5:1 natively

2) macro lens over adapter on a small-sensor interchangeable-lens camera like Nikon 1 or Pentax Q ("hardware crop")

3) reversed (BR-2A adapter) wideangle prime, possibly on extension tubes

4) macro lens on extension tubes

5) telephoto lens with an achromat diopter (check Canon 250D, Marumi DHG achromat +5, Raynox DCR-250) - this works with "bridge" type compact cameras too

6) macro lens on a teleconverter (there are also front teleconverters)

7) wideangle prime reversed on top of a telephoto lens

8) macro or normal prime, enlarger lens, or expensive old specialty high-magnification macro lenses on bellows (possibly reversed)

9) approaches using microscope objectives

You can extend the magnification of your lens to around 2:1 via options (2), (4), (5) or (6). Maybe some more by combining, but that'd be more clumsy. Higher magnifications require some more practice and likely focus stacking; the bellows apprach (8) is recommendable at home, while (3) with diffused flash may be more convenient outdoors, see http://blog.mdsign.nl/

Check John's Shaw's Closeups in Nature, a bit dated but still relevant, inexpensive used and preview available at Amazon.

 

[holyindian]

Thanks so much for your replies guys. This definitely gives me a boost in my macro photography effort. I did not know where to start from, hence to begin with first i brought a 90mm Tamron VC macro lens, now i realize that 1:1 magnification is as good as it can get for a close-up macro, but not more than that. Had i known that i can achieve 2:1 or 1:1 equivalent with a inverted 50mm prime or an extension tube, i wouldn't have invested in the macro lens.

But now that i have the macro lens, on a nikon d7100 dslr, what do you suggest i should be doing.. 1. use the 90mm Tamron macro inverted or 2. spend on a kenko extension tube? I do have a sb-910 flash, does that suffice..? or should i get a flash ring such as Orbis?

 

[holyindian]

...I see people taking extreme pictures of a dragon fly's eyes, and various other insects.. how do you manage it? Do i need to use extension tubes to get these kinds of images, or invert my 90mm lens and use the other way?

Do people usually corp pictures to get these kinds of magnified results?

I use Canon's MPE-65mm lens -it's basically a reversed lens with a variable length extension tube built in. More info here Unfortunately the lens costs over 1000 USD...

If you own a Canon camera you can get the EF-S60mm and a set of extension tubes. Macro lenses that have internal focusing (lenses that don't change shape when you turn the focus ring) lose focal length at life size. The EF-S 60mm is a 37mm lens at 1x, so it only takes 37mm of extension to get it to 2x. Also as long as you have at lest 12mm of extension on the lens you can use it on any Canon camera. When I had to send my MPE-65mm in to Canon to get it repaired I used an EF-S 60mm and extension tubes with a 1D Mark III camera and the MT-24EX macro twin flash to take this shot:

I don't use a tripod or focusing rail (always shoot hand held) and I do not crop -so obviously it takes more than just the right hardware to get a shot like that one. For more info check out the links in my signature.

--
Also known as Dalantech
My Book: http://nocroppingzone.blogspot.com/2010/01/extreme-macro-art-of-patience.html
My Blog: www.nocroppingzone.com
My gallery: www.johnkimbler.com
Macro Tutorials: http://dalantech.deviantart.com/gallery/#Tutorials
Always minimal post processing and no cropping -unless you count the viewfinder...

John, what an excellent shot. I feel proud to be a part of this forum, and get help from genuine people like you who excel in this field.

Thanks so much for pointing me to your links, i am gonna spend some hours reading it now.

By the way, i have a Nikon D7100 and hence i got the Tamron SP 90MM F/2.8 Di VC USD 1:1 Macro (link ) lens.

Looking at the photos on their website for samples i never realized to attain these kinds of images i will have to spend additional 200 bucks for extension tubes.

So with an extension tube will i be able to get a 3:1 or 5:1 on the tamron lens i have? Does it actually have to be 5:1 to obtain images like you shot above? or a 2:1 or 3:1 can also have the same magnification?

 

[PERCY2]

If you still have your kitlens you can use it also by using it in reverse mount, most of my macro photos were taken using the reverse mounting technique. However by using this technique you must have a full reserve of PATIENCE and ENDURANCE (sample photos of my macro and close-uo works can be found here )

Regards,


Percy
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[_sem_]

But now that i have the macro lens, on a nikon d7100 dslr, what do you suggest i should be doing.. 1. use the 90mm Tamron macro inverted or 2. spend on a kenko extension tube?

A set of extension tubes or a DCR-250 or a 2xTC gets you to about 2:1, with all automatics working, and get some mileage. The technique gets challenging at higher magnifications. Paper-thin depth-of-field is the main issue. Consider looking up larger bugs first

Cheapest auto extension tubes should be around $80, though Kenkos are probably better made.

It is possible to extend/reverse your T90, but you will need a lot of extension to get higher magnifications, that's bellows not extension tubes. Shorter lenses require less extension to increase magnification; with reversal you mostly get some more magnification, and the working distance becomes less restrictive. Mind reversing techniques are mostly all-manual, no AF, no metering, the worst is no auto aperture (open for aiming, stopped-down for the exposure).

I do have a sb-910 flash, does that suffice..? or should i get a flash ring such as Orbis?

Ring flashes don't really provide best light mostly. And mind the cheap LED ones don't freeze motion (continuous light is generally good because you see what you get, but you are restricted to still subjects). The sb-910 is fine; but up to ca 1:1 you should use a large diffuser screen (mini-softbox) or bounce-card; at higher magnifications you should get it on a bracket off-camera with the head very close to the subject (then a small diffuser or even none may be fine).

> Does it actually have to be 5:1 to obtain images like you shot above? or a 2:1 or 3:1 can also have the same magnification?

DX frame size is about 24mm x 16mm and this is what you get at 1:1.

You can reverse a kit lens 18-xxx (at 18mm) on the BR-2A reversal adapter, possibly a set of extension tubes and get magnifications around 3x-8x to practice. But the quality is not so good, and there are also "mechanical" issues.

 

[holyindian]

So looking at all the options above.. i have ordered the Kenko Extension Tubes DG version.

As i mentioned earlier i already have the Tamron 90mm VC macro which goes to 1:1 magnification, i hope i can achieve 2:1 or 3:1 with the extension tubes, i have a few prime lens also, such as the 35mm... not sure if i should couple the macro and the prime together for a higher magnification.. lets see.. its an experiment that i will try in the coming few weeks and post back how it goes.

But for now, whats a good soft box/flash diffuser that i should use with my sb-910 flash for macro shooting?

 

[_sem_]

So looking at all the options above.. i have ordered the Kenko Extension Tubes DG version.

As i mentioned earlier i already have the Tamron 90mm VC macro which goes to 1:1 magnification, i hope i can achieve 2:1 or 3:1 with the extension tubes, i have a few prime lens also, such as the 35mm...

The 35mm on extension should produce more magnification on extension, especially reversed (but that's more involved because it is all manual, and you need to operate the aperture lever on G lenses).

not sure if i should couple the macro and the prime together for a higher magnification.. lets see.. its an experiment that i will try in the coming few weeks and post back how it goes.

The magnification should be about 90/35 that's a bit less than 3:1. Such a setup should produce good quality, but is a bit tricky to figure out properly.

But for now, whats a good soft box/flash diffuser that i should use with my sb-910 flash for macro shooting?

Check this: http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/35870560

There are several options that work fine, but mind the diffuser screen should be large enough or close enough to the subject.

For higher magnification "large enough" gets smaller, but it's good to get the flash head close to the subject.

 

[holyindian]

So looking at all the options above.. i have ordered the Kenko Extension Tubes DG version.

As i mentioned earlier i already have the Tamron 90mm VC macro which goes to 1:1 magnification, i hope i can achieve 2:1 or 3:1 with the extension tubes, i have a few prime lens also, such as the 35mm...

The 35mm on extension should produce more magnification on extension, especially reversed (but that's more involved because it is all manual, and you need to operate the aperture lever on G lenses).

not sure if i should couple the macro and the prime together for a higher magnification.. lets see.. its an experiment that i will try in the coming few weeks and post back how it goes.

The magnification should be about 90/35 that's a bit less than 3:1. Such a setup should produce good quality, but is a bit tricky to figure out properly.

But for now, whats a good soft box/flash diffuser that i should use with my sb-910 flash for macro shooting?

Check this: http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/35870560

There are several options that work fine, but mind the diffuser screen should be large enough or close enough to the subject.

For higher magnification "large enough" gets smaller, but it's good to get the flash head close to the subject.

Sam and other members on the forum, thanks so much for helping me out with this really tricky subject. I realize macro photography is not out the book easy. It requires lots talent, and the right tricks. You can get the best lens and learn nothing simiarly u can get ordinary gear and get the best in macro with the right knowledge.

I have learnt a lot from this thread... and i really want to thank you all for keeping the patience and replying to all my questions.

I have one last question.. Just wanted to know.. what are the options i have with the current line up of lenses i have.. and it be great if u can add the maginfication ratio next to each lens with the add-on's to these lenses.

1. Tamron 90mm macro (i already brought a reverse ring and kenko extension tubes, i guess this should give me 2:1, anything else that can be added).

2. Nikon 10-24mm Ultrawide lens (i read lower the focal length the better it is for micro with reverse ring and extension tubes, how would 10-24mm do for this)?

3. Nikon 70-200 f2.8 VRII

4. Nikon 35mm f1.8G Prime

5. Nikon 85mm f1.8G Prime

6. Tamron 24-70mm f2.8 VC constant apertrue lens.

Please let me know whatever add'ons i can use to maximize the magnification to obtain 5:1 or more with whatever i have above.

 

[_sem_]

I have one last question.. Just wanted to know.. what are the options i have with the current line up of lenses i have.. and it be great if u can add the maginfication ratio next to each lens with the add-on's to these lenses.

You have many options that will work, so just start practicing. Or read that John Shaw's book, and there's a lot of useful threads here on DPR forums, etc.

I'd suggest you to start with just the T90 on extension tubes, because it is the easiest to work with. Then you may try reversing it, or the 35mm.

2. Nikon 10-24mm Ultrawide lens (i read lower the focal length the better it is for micro with reverse ring and extension tubes, how would 10-24mm do for this)?

I assume it is useful reversed for high magnifications (extension tubes or bellows also recommended; set it to close focus), heck even the 10.5 fisheye works though I don't know about the quality. Though it is not the handiest for this, because it is a bit bulky and doesn't have an aperture ring, so one needs to set the aperture via the little lever in the mount. It also requires a step-down filter ring from the thread of the BR-2A to its filter thread, 77mm to 52mm?

 

[cjedonline]

It concerns me a little that suggestions are being made as to additional equipment without a proper understanding of what you're trying to photograph and the techniques you're going to use. Your D7100 has a sensor 23.5 x 15.6mm - which is the size of the area you can photograph with your Tamron 90mm Macro lens at it's closest focusing distance.

What's the size of the subject you're trying to fill the frame with ? Will you be shooting "in the field", hand-held, or in a studio environment, tripod mounted ?

Taking macros at 1:1 hand-held is a tricky skill to master. You can't use AF, it just doesn't work at these magnifications/distances and with the inevitable slight movements of the camera/lens in your hands (not to mention that you're at the focus limit of the lens anyway). So, you should set your lens to manual, and to it's closest focus point. Then, slowly move the whole camera/lens assembly towards the subject until it comes into focus, at that point, release the shutter (actually, a slight "swaying" forwards and backwards to determine the exact point of focus you want will probably be nescesary). At this point, with the Tamron 90mm lens, the end of the lens will be around 11cm from the subject. Do NOT try to focus using the lens or AF, it's just not feasible if you want to do 1:1 hand-held.

You'll almost certainly want to use flash illumination of some type, firstly to get enough light for the smaller apertures at low ISO to get good quality shots, but also for the fast effective shutter speed that helps counter any camera shake.

I suggest you practice at 1:1 with just the Tamron lens until you're happy you're getting good quality results, then if you need to, look to add extension tubes (a full set will get you close to 2:1 magnification) and then a 1.4x Teleconvertor which will push you close to 3:1 - going further hand held requires very good technique. Here's a gallery of mine that shows a similar combination on a similar sensor size camera :
http://www.pbase.com/cjed/extreme_macros

 

[holyindian]

It concerns me a little that suggestions are being made as to additional equipment without a proper understanding of what you're trying to photograph and the techniques you're going to use. Your D7100 has a sensor 23.5 x 15.6mm - which is the size of the area you can photograph with your Tamron 90mm Macro lens at it's closest focusing distance.

What's the size of the subject you're trying to fill the frame with ? Will you be shooting "in the field", hand-held, or in a studio environment, tripod mounted ?

Taking macros at 1:1 hand-held is a tricky skill to master. You can't use AF, it just doesn't work at these magnifications/distances and with the inevitable slight movements of the camera/lens in your hands (not to mention that you're at the focus limit of the lens anyway). So, you should set your lens to manual, and to it's closest focus point. Then, slowly move the whole camera/lens assembly towards the subject until it comes into focus, at that point, release the shutter (actually, a slight "swaying" forwards and backwards to determine the exact point of focus you want will probably be nescesary). At this point, with the Tamron 90mm lens, the end of the lens will be around 11cm from the subject. Do NOT try to focus using the lens or AF, it's just not feasible if you want to do 1:1 hand-held.

You'll almost certainly want to use flash illumination of some type, firstly to get enough light for the smaller apertures at low ISO to get good quality shots, but also for the fast effective shutter speed that helps counter any camera shake.

I suggest you practice at 1:1 with just the Tamron lens until you're happy you're getting good quality results, then if you need to, look to add extension tubes (a full set will get you close to 2:1 magnification) and then a 1.4x Teleconvertor which will push you close to 3:1 - going further hand held requires very good technique. Here's a gallery of mine that shows a similar combination on a similar sensor size camera :
http://www.pbase.com/cjed/extreme_macros

Cjedonline, thanks for your reply. Those are great tips. I am already beat with 1:1 hand held shooting, i have been aggressively shooting almost for hours everyday.. and doing good with it.

I am really interested in getting into ultra macro.. thats what is my main motivation.

I am starting to read various books by John Shaw's etc, few videos on lynda and kelbyone, this is helping me a lot.

Currently i am open to shooting ultra macro in controlled environments with still life. For this i am reading around and wanting to try out things such as using bellows, or focus stacking using softwares or hardware based such as StackShot.. however i don't have much info about it. Is using bellows "old school"? is there something new, or bellows is the ideal tool for ultra magnification?

Do i need bellows and stackshot hardware both? Are there cheaper alternatives compared to stackshot with similar results?

 

[_sem_]

Is using bellows "old school"? is there something new, or bellows is the ideal tool for ultra magnification?

No, bellows is not "old school", is nothing but longer and conveniently variable extension, essential for many ways of reaching high magnifications. You don't get there without slightly exotic gear, except for the MP-E 65 which does look like a normal lens. You don't need bellows with the approaches involving a microscope objective or a reversed short prime on a telephoto lens, and with a reversed short prime where extension tubes tend to be enough extension.

Do i need bellows and stackshot hardware both? Are there cheaper alternatives compared to stackshot with similar results?

Bellows is essentially extension used for getting high magnification, while Stackshot is an automated focus rail for changing the distance from the subject in focus stacking. Some bellows have a focus rail integrated. You can use a manual focus rail for focus stacking, and I'd certainly start with a manual one.

Instead of using a focus rail, another approach to stacking is moving the focus ring of the lens. It may be automated by certain smartphone apps (Helicon remote, DSLR Dashboard...), unfortunately not with most high-magnification techniques.

Check old focus- stacking threads here, and the photomacrography.net forum.

 

[holyindian]

So, how do you guys manage to catch dragon fly's or other insects for still life photography? do you run behind them with nets?

How do you manage to keep them still in controlled environments?

I wanted to get the hang of ultra macro in controlled environments with still subjects before i am out in the orchids.

Also, is it advisable to get close to wasps, bees.. do they retaliate or get aggressive if you approach them with a camera?

 

[cjedonline]

So, how do you guys manage to catch dragon fly's or other insects for still life photography? do you run behind them with nets?

How do you manage to keep them still in controlled environments?

Most photographers on the forum don't catch their subjects for photography in the studio, almost all the work is done "in the field". I'm guessing it's possible to catch insects undamaged for studio photography, the only way I know to reduce their movement (without harming them) is to have a low-temperature environment. Insects are normally less active in the cold, one reason why it's easier to get close to them first thing in the morning.

Also, is it advisable to get close to wasps, bees.. do they retaliate or get aggressive if you approach them with a camera?

I've never had a problem with either, but I take care to disturb my macro subjects as little as possible. Again, going out shooting while it's still cool means they are less active and usually allow you closer. Bees gathering nectar or Wasps feeding will generally ignore you unless you physically disturb them.

 

[holyindian]

So, how do you guys manage to catch dragon fly's or other insects for still life photography? do you run behind them with nets?

How do you manage to keep them still in controlled environments?

Most photographers on the forum don't catch their subjects for photography in the studio, almost all the work is done "in the field". I'm guessing it's possible to catch insects undamaged for studio photography, the only way I know to reduce their movement (without harming them) is to have a low-temperature environment. Insects are normally less active in the cold, one reason why it's easier to get close to them first thing in the morning.

Also, is it advisable to get close to wasps, bees.. do they retaliate or get aggressive if you approach them with a camera?

I've never had a problem with either, but I take care to disturb my macro subjects as little as possible. Again, going out shooting while it's still cool means they are less active and usually allow you closer. Bees gathering nectar or Wasps feeding will generally ignore you unless you physically disturb them.

Thanks for your reply. This helps a lot. I was able to find a youtube video, the guy had frozen the insect in a kill jar although it was not dead.

But focus stacking won't be possible in live environments outdoors.. when you go unto ultra/extreme macro.. dof becomes a real issue, and you NEED to focus stack. I am sure most of the ultra macro shots with extreme macro subjects the insects aren't alive, as the insects need to be still, and in a controlled env.

 

[blackwiggle]

There are two sites I recommend anybody that is remotely interested in macro/ extreme macro / micro photography visit.

Between the two sites, pretty much all you questions will be answered, especially the second site I will give the link to, as the members at this site are at the cutting edge [state of the art / invent the procedures / tools/ software] that is used.[A multitude of NIKON small world winners]

The first site/ link below could/ should be considered a 'Introduction to the specifics', you can visit here and learn a LOT very quickly, as it's basically been amassed and edited from posts and blogs from other forums / sites etc.

HIGHLY recommended as a first visit, it's also a LOT easier to find particular topics for repeat reading, the editing makes understanding a particular topic easy for a new comer, rather than having to trawl through a whole thread of posts where a lot of stuff would not be understood if viewing the topic unedited in it's original content.

Extreme Macro Photography

extreme-macro.co.uk by macro photographer Johan J Ingles - Le Nobel is for budget-conscious macro photographers, and covers stacking, lenses, stages, lighting

extreme-macro.co.uk

The Bee's Knee's or how to photograph them, see below

http://www.photomacrography.net/

This is 'THE SITE' if you really want to know how do do it, and what you need and best practice procedures.

Multiple Nikon small world winners as members, Zerene Stacker software writer is a admin.

Huge scientific based professional presence at the forum [all extremely friendly if you introduce yourself at the forum firstly ]

Suggest any interested visit the FAQ's thread first = A Goldmine of info.

http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=29