NEC or EIZO for 5D3 workflow?

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Looking for a good LED monitor to process images from my 5D3. Requirements:

1. 24"+ screen size (1920x1200 minimum)

2. Wide gamut (most of Adobe RGB)

3. GB-r LED backlit (no W-LED, no CFL)

4. EIZO or NEC only (no Dell, no LG)

5. With hardware calibrator and software (could be separate)

6. No specific budget cuy-off, but cost is a concern

So far have found 2 models, EIZO CX240 for $1,600 and NEC PA242W for $1,300. You say?
 
I have this monitor and it is excellent. Be sure to get the Spectravision II color management solution (I recommend buying the SV software only and then an actual X-Rite i1 Display Pro that you can use on any monitor). Also get the hood. I teach color-managed workflow and always recommend this solution. Good luck.
 
DotCom Editor wrote:

I have this monitor and it is excellent. Be sure to get the Spectravision II color management solution (I recommend buying the SV software only and then an actual X-Rite i1 Display Pro that you can use on any monitor). Also get the hood. I teach color-managed workflow and always recommend this solution. Good luck.
Are there any lab tests among 27" monitors? I bought a MacBook Pro recently and will buy the Apple Thunderbolt 27" Display MC914LL/B (or iMAC with 27" display) that has the same resolution at similar price of this NEC model. I will buy Apple anyway as it natively supports thunderbolt port. But just having a curiosity to find a test to show which one is better?

--
http://qianp2k.zenfolio.com/
 
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DotCom Editor wrote:

I have this monitor and it is excellent. Be sure to get the Spectravision II color management solution (I recommend buying the SV software only and then an actual X-Rite i1 Display Pro that you can use on any monitor). Also get the hood. I teach color-managed workflow and always recommend this solution. Good luck.
Thank you for your reply. Please let me make sure I understood it correctly:

1. You recommend a 27" monitor instead of 24"

2. Instead of buying a monitor bunled with a calibrator, you recommend buying separately a monitor only, plus the monitor calibration software from the monitor maker, plus X-Rite i1 Display Pro, as long as all three are compatible.

3. You insist that a hood is a must and should be invested in even for non professional purposes.

Did I get all this right? Thanks for sharing your expertise!

I would indeed prefer a 27" monitor, but I have hoped to get an LED unit instead of CCFL and neiher NEC nor EIZO make any 27" LED monitors yet for color critical work. Dell does, but I am reluctant to invest in Dell. I see NEC PA271W is on sale for $859, which seems a great deal, or for $1,359 with a calibrator, but $500 for the calibrator with software seems excessive as it is $300 separately.
 
qianp2k wrote:
DotCom Editor wrote:

I have this monitor and it is excellent. Be sure to get the Spectravision II color management solution (I recommend buying the SV software only and then an actual X-Rite i1 Display Pro that you can use on any monitor). Also get the hood. I teach color-managed workflow and always recommend this solution. Good luck.
Are there any lab tests among 27" monitors? I bought a MacBook Pro recently and will buy the Apple Thunderbolt 27" Display MC914LL/B (or iMAC with 27" display) that has the same resolution at similar price of this NEC model. I will buy Apple anyway as it natively supports thunderbolt port. But just having a curiosity to find a test to show which one is better?
Not sure about a specific test, but it is well known that EIZO (CG or CX series) and NEC (PA series) are the only two brands that stand ahead for color critical work compared to mass market solutions from Apple, Dell, etc. (that often use LG panels). Also I am not sure if Thunderbolt supports 10-bit color. You may need Displayport for it.
 
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birdbrain wrote:

I have an Eizo CG223W and its brilliant.

For all my monitor info I go here: http://shop.colourconfidence.com/section.php?xSec=10154

Can't find the NEC or EIzo monitor you list, my Eizo is a 5 star monitor. I see the CG223W has come down in price, a bargain. :(
This one is 22" and CCFL, but I have no doubt it is brilliant. The CX240 that I mentioned had the same panel with the same specs as CG246 listed on the website you use, except CX240 comes without the hood, software, and other extras and is $500 - $900 less than CG246. You can see the NEC PA242W here:

http://www.necdisplay.com/p/desktop-monitors/pa242w-bk
 
qianp2k wrote:
DotCom Editor wrote:

I have this monitor and it is excellent. Be sure to get the Spectravision II color management solution (I recommend buying the SV software only and then an actual X-Rite i1 Display Pro that you can use on any monitor). Also get the hood. I teach color-managed workflow and always recommend this solution. Good luck.
Are there any lab tests among 27" monitors? I bought a MacBook Pro recently and will buy the Apple Thunderbolt 27" Display MC914LL/B (or iMAC with 27" display) that has the same resolution at similar price of this NEC model. I will buy Apple anyway as it natively supports thunderbolt port. But just having a curiosity to find a test to show which one is better?
 
Press Correspondent wrote:

2. Instead of buying a monitor bunled with a calibrator, you recommend buying separately a monitor only, plus the monitor calibration software from the monitor maker, plus X-Rite i1 Display Pro, as long as all three are compatible.
Sadly xrite started locking all probes they are not stock off the shelf, so if you get the i1 Display Pro 3 from NEC it will probably be locked out from working with software on other monitors :(. Absolutely ridiculous. So I'd get an off the shelf 1i Display Pro 3 and then get the spectraview software from NEC.

just wish NEC/Eizo made or were even working on retina-level displays since that is ultra critical too, they offer the top calibration (critical) and wide gamut (critical) but don't seem to be trying to make the jump to natural resolution

I also wish they had better contrast ratio, the blacks are not so deep since they mostly use IPS which hasn't made much progress in that regard. Eizo does have one or two PVA.
 
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bronxbombers4 wrote:
Press Correspondent wrote:

2. Instead of buying a monitor bunled with a calibrator, you recommend buying separately a monitor only, plus the monitor calibration software from the monitor maker, plus X-Rite i1 Display Pro, as long as all three are compatible.
Sadly xrite started locking all probes they are not stock off the shelf, so if you get the i1 Display Pro 3 from NEC it will probably be locked out from working with software on other monitors :(. Absolutely ridiculous. So I'd get an off the shelf 1i Display Pro 3 and then get the spectraview software from NEC.

just wish NEC/Eizo made or were even working on retina-level displays since that is ultra critical too, they offer the top calibration (critical) and wide gamut (critical) but don't seem to be trying to make the jump to natural resolution

I also wish they had better contrast ratio, the blacks are not so deep since they mostly use IPS which hasn't made much progress in that regard. Eizo does have one or two PVA.

Although it seems like the Eizo with PVA that has the fancy stuff uses a poor contrast ratio PVA and only the non-color pro one has the huge contrast ratio, apparently
 
Press Correspondent wrote:

Looking for a good LED monitor to process images from my 5D3. Requirements:

1. 24"+ screen size (1920x1200 minimum)

2. Wide gamut (most of Adobe RGB)

3. GB-r LED backlit (no W-LED, no CFL)

4. EIZO or NEC only (no Dell, no LG)

5. With hardware calibrator and software (could be separate)

6. No specific budget cuy-off, but cost is a concern

So far have found 2 models, EIZO CX240 for $1,600 and NEC PA242W for $1,300. You say?
DO you need 10-bit and is your software and video card 10-bit capable? Can make a small dif in monitor selection.
 
bronxbombers4 wrote:
qianp2k wrote:
DotCom Editor wrote:

I have this monitor and it is excellent. Be sure to get the Spectravision II color management solution (I recommend buying the SV software only and then an actual X-Rite i1 Display Pro that you can use on any monitor). Also get the hood. I teach color-managed workflow and always recommend this solution. Good luck.
Are there any lab tests among 27" monitors? I bought a MacBook Pro recently and will buy the Apple Thunderbolt 27" Display MC914LL/B (or iMAC with 27" display) that has the same resolution at similar price of this NEC model. I will buy Apple anyway as it natively supports thunderbolt port. But just having a curiosity to find a test to show which one is better?
Apple doesn't have any of the fancy internal 14bit 3D LUT stuff, screen uniformity compensators, etc. It does have glossy screen which is much nicer IMO, but otherwise no way, vastly inferior. They do have retina screens coming though. Sadly NEC and (probably) Eizo do not, a huge shame.
What's the retina screen for? Look at the monitor through a microscope? ;) Perhaps it makes some difference for iPhone help really up close to your eyes, but already no difference whatsoever for iPad looked at from a normal reading distance without a magnifying glass.
 
Mako2011 wrote:
Press Correspondent wrote:

Looking for a good LED monitor to process images from my 5D3. Requirements:

1. 24"+ screen size (1920x1200 minimum)

2. Wide gamut (most of Adobe RGB)

3. GB-r LED backlit (no W-LED, no CFL)

4. EIZO or NEC only (no Dell, no LG)

5. With hardware calibrator and software (could be separate)

6. No specific budget cuy-off, but cost is a concern

So far have found 2 models, EIZO CX240 for $1,600 and NEC PA242W for $1,300. You say?
DO you need 10-bit and is your software and video card 10-bit capable? Can make a small dif in monitor selection.
I don't think there are any 8-bit monitors fulfilling the top 4 requirements above, but conceptually yes, if I am to invest at least a grand in a monitor, it should be the latest technology that would not become obsolete too soon. I will get next a new midrange video card from Nvidia with the Display Port and 10-bit driver support for 64-bit Windows 7, unless people here have better suggestions.
 
Press Correspondent wrote:
Mako2011 wrote:
Press Correspondent wrote:

Looking for a good LED monitor to process images from my 5D3. Requirements:

1. 24"+ screen size (1920x1200 minimum)

2. Wide gamut (most of Adobe RGB)

3. GB-r LED backlit (no W-LED, no CFL)

4. EIZO or NEC only (no Dell, no LG)

5. With hardware calibrator and software (could be separate)

6. No specific budget cuy-off, but cost is a concern

So far have found 2 models, EIZO CX240 for $1,600 and NEC PA242W for $1,300. You say?
DO you need 10-bit and is your software and video card 10-bit capable? Can make a small dif in monitor selection.
I don't think there are any 8-bit monitors fulfilling the top 4 requirements above, but conceptually yes, if I am to invest at least a grand in a monitor, it should be the latest technology that would not become obsolete too soon. I will get next a new midrange video card from Nvidia with the Display Port and 10-bit driver support for 64-bit Windows 7, unless people here have better suggestions.
When getting the video card...be sure it's really 10-bit capable over OpenGL (NVIDIA Quadro GPU's).

With your requirements then, looks like you've narrowed it down pretty well.
 
qianp2k wrote:

Are there any lab tests among 27" monitors? I bought a MacBook Pro recently and will buy the Apple Thunderbolt 27" Display MC914LL/B (or iMAC with 27" display) that has the same resolution at similar price of this NEC model. I will buy Apple anyway as it natively supports thunderbolt port. But just having a curiosity to find a test to show which one is better?
The Apple display barely covers the sRGB color space and falls woefully short of covering the Adobe RGB color space. The NEC and Eizo monitors cover almost the entire aRGB gamut, far better for photography.

Read this for some background:

http://blog.vectorcomputing.net/2012/05/10/monitor-comparison/
 
DotCom Editor wrote:
qianp2k wrote:

Are there any lab tests among 27" monitors? I bought a MacBook Pro recently and will buy the Apple Thunderbolt 27" Display MC914LL/B (or iMAC with 27" display) that has the same resolution at similar price of this NEC model. I will buy Apple anyway as it natively supports thunderbolt port. But just having a curiosity to find a test to show which one is better?
The Apple display barely covers the sRGB color space and falls woefully short of covering the Adobe RGB color space. The NEC and Eizo monitors cover almost the entire aRGB gamut, far better for photography.

Read this for some background:

http://blog.vectorcomputing.net/2012/05/10/monitor-comparison/
Thanks for the report that I will read thoroughly. NEC and Eizo are still more expensive and guess still are LCD displays that are thicker, heavier and consuming more electricity compared to Apple LED display. This article cited older and cheaper 27" Cinema display not newer and a bit more expensive 27" Thunderbolt LED display. Latter is better from what I read and look very nice with its glossy screen that boasts the same 16.7m colors and 2560 x 1440 pixels resolution.

The difference is pretty obvious or subtle? Also if it will lose display quality thru a display-port to thunderbolt converter to be used on MacBook Pro?

--

 
Press Correspondent wrote:
DotCom Editor wrote:

I have this monitor and it is excellent. Be sure to get the Spectravision II color management solution (I recommend buying the SV software only and then an actual X-Rite i1 Display Pro that you can use on any monitor). Also get the hood. I teach color-managed workflow and always recommend this solution. Good luck.
Thank you for your reply. Please let me make sure I understood it correctly:

1. You recommend a 27" monitor instead of 24"
The small USD$122 incremental price of the 2560 x 1440 27-inch NEC PA271W over the 1920 x 1200 24-inch NEC PA241W is hugely worthwhile. The 24-inch feels positively claustrophobic in comparison. Be sure your video card supports 2560 x 1440 resolution. DisplayPort is the preferred connection method, but this is not a requirement. I profile my monitor weekly. (I come from a publishing background where designers sat in dim offices and profiled their CRT monitors twice daily. Yikes!)

You paid thousands for your camera gear, don't be a cheapskate when it comes to a monitor. You look into the monitor much more than you look into your camera.
  • NEC 24-inch P241W (without SpectraVision), 1920 x 1200 resolution. It covers 75.2% of aRGB and 96.7% of sRGB. It's a bargain; possibly near an end-of-life markdown. MSRP $749, $549 at B&H. (The hood is $99 at B&H.) In my opinion, this is an wholly unsatisfactory investment for any serious photographer.
  • NEC 24-inch PA241W -- note the "A" in the model number -- (no SpectraVision), 1920 x 1200; 98.1% of aRGB, 100% of sRGB. If you want 24 inches, this is the one. $999 MSRP; $737 at B&H. (The hood is $99 at B&H.)
  • NEC 27-inch PA271W (the one I have); 2560 x 1440; 97.1% of aRGB, 100% of sRGB. MSRP $1,199, a mere $859 at B&H. It's a fabulous investment. Look at the huge increase in pixels. Much, much more real estate. I strongly urge you to go this way. (The hood is $106 at B&H.)
Here's another way to look at this:
  • 1920 x 1200 = 2,304,000 pixels
  • 2560 x 1440 = 3,686,400 pixels -- 60 percent more pixels for just $122 more!!!
2. Instead of buying a monitor bunled with a calibrator, you recommend buying separately a monitor only, plus the monitor calibration software from the monitor maker, plus X-Rite i1 Display Pro, as long as all three are compatible.
The NEC branded SpectraVision II calibrator device is an X-Rite i1 Display Pro that has been physically crippled so it works only with NEC monitors. Much better for you to buy the SpectraView II software online directly from NEC as a download for $99, and buy an actual X-Rite branded i1 Display Pro from B&H for $209. You can then use the X-Rite device on any monitor from any manufacturer. The software supports a variety of colorimeters and spectrophotometers. Go to this link to learn more; click on the Compatibility tab for a list of supported color sensors. The Datacolor Spyder 3 and Spyder 4 are also supported, but I am not a fan of Datacolor products. Always let your monitor warm up for at least 30 minutes to stabilize before you calibrate and profile, regardless of manufacturer.

http://www.necdisplay.com/support-and-services/spectra-view-II/Overview
3. You insist that a hood is a must and should be invested in even for non professional purposes.
I think the hood is a good investment; it is not a necessity. It cuts way down on the likelihood of glare and undesirable reflection from the ambient room lighting. And you are always wearing a black or color-neutral dark gray shirt when you edit photos, right? You can always by the hood later. I ordered the hood the same time as my monitor, but it took two weeks extra since B&H did not have it in stock at the time.
Did I get all this right? Thanks for sharing your expertise!
Yes, you are on your way. I'm sooooooooo glad I stepped up to the 27-inch monitor. You just gotta trust me on this one.
I would indeed prefer a 27" monitor, but I have hoped to get an LED unit instead of CCFL and neiher NEC nor EIZO make any 27" LED monitors yet for color critical work. Dell does, but I am reluctant to invest in Dell. I see NEC PA271W is on sale for $859, which seems a great deal, or for $1,359 with a calibrator, but $500 for the calibrator with software seems excessive as it is $300 separately.
LED vs. CCFL is a specious argument, IMHO. Sure, CCFL costs a teeny-tiny bit more to operate, but it is a long-proven technology for color-critical work. LED, though the technology is not new, has no track record for color-critical work. I see this as an investment, not a science experiment.

Another factor: Monitors are ridiculously bright out of the box, typically 300 cd/m^2 (candelas per square meter) or more. That's horrible for photography and is the main reason people complain their images looked great onscreen but prints are way too dark. You need to turn down the luminosity of the monitor to match your printer. The recommend starting luminosity for photography is 120 cd/m^2. My NEC PA271W is turned down even more, to 100 cd/m^2. This is the best match for my printer. (Luminosity is a scientific measurement, brightness is the human perception. The same exact luminosity could be too bright for one person and too dim for another. That's measurement vs. perception.)

I teach color-managed workflow and printing. Though they are worth only two cents, these are my opinions. Feel free to ask additional questions. Good luck to you.
 
Thanks so much! I appreciate the information. I am sure more questions will come up at a later time :)
 
qianp2k wrote:
DotCom Editor wrote:
qianp2k wrote:

Are there any lab tests among 27" monitors? I bought a MacBook Pro recently and will buy the Apple Thunderbolt 27" Display MC914LL/B (or iMAC with 27" display) that has the same resolution at similar price of this NEC model. I will buy Apple anyway as it natively supports thunderbolt port. But just having a curiosity to find a test to show which one is better?
The Apple display barely covers the sRGB color space and falls woefully short of covering the Adobe RGB color space. The NEC and Eizo monitors cover almost the entire aRGB gamut, far better for photography.

Read this for some background:

http://blog.vectorcomputing.net/2012/05/10/monitor-comparison/
Thanks for the report that I will read thoroughly. NEC and Eizo are still more expensive and guess still are LCD displays that are thicker, heavier and consuming more electricity compared to Apple LED display. This article cited older and cheaper 27" Cinema display not newer and a bit more expensive 27" Thunderbolt LED display. Latter is better from what I read and look very nice with its glossy screen that boasts the same 16.7m colors and 2560 x 1440 pixels resolution.

The difference is pretty obvious or subtle? Also if it will lose display quality thru a display-port to thunderbolt converter to be used on MacBook Pro?
In a nutshell, if you look specifically for LED, there are two basic technologies.

1. Standard gamut uses White LEDs with 3-color filters in front of them. The spectrum of a single White LED is limited and cannot extend much beyond sRGB.

2. Wide gamut uses RGB LEDs (or GB-r LEDs) that essentially are 3 separate LEDs of different colors per pixel. The combined spectrum of 3 different LEDs is much wider than that of one W-LED and extends well beyond Adobe-RGB, NTSC, or even ProPhoto RGB.

Note a difference between the "coverage" and "size" of the gamut. For example, GB-r LED-based NEC PA242W covers 100% of sRGB, but it's gamut size is 146% of the sRGB size. Thus means ths monitor's color space is almost a time and a half larger than sRGB. Similarly, it covers 99.3% of Adobe RGB, but the gamut size is 109% of Adibe RGB. This means this monitor's gamut cannot reproduce only 0.7% of one extreme edge of Adobe RGB, but at the same time exceeds Adobe RGB by 9% in other extreme colors. In other words, the gamut is substantially larger than Adobe RGB despite the 99.3% rating.

Also note that colors can be corrected by color calibration only if they are actually present or only within the monitor gamut. Calibration does not change a poor color space into a good one. Check out this site, it answers your question:

"The fact is, general purpose monitors are easy to make and are sold in such numbers that their incredibly cheap pricing makes them very tempting - why pay $2000 or even $4000 for a super duper screen when Dell make one for $400? And on the face of it, the Dell monitor seems to have good specifications - often specifications that are on the face of it on par with the NEC or Eizo models. And even when you look at the screen live, it looks good - high contrast, lots of saturated colour, sharp enough, that sort of thing. The natural reaction is to conclude you're not missing much, that there really isn't THAT much difference between a general desktop monitor and a proper imaging monitor. Wrong. Wrong wrong wrong!"

http://www.imagescience.com.au/kb/questions/120/Monitors+For+High+Quality+Imaging+Work
 

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