My G2-a "p&s"?

[jean-Claude Monier]

Hey! Canonist you are missing the point. The contest was for the best shot. G2 been clasified as P&S had more chance to win and It did NOT.
This is what you should elaborate on.

regards

JC
--JC

 

[crl]

I wanted to know WHO classifies the D7 with DSLRs and designates
optical equiped cameras as P & S. It just took a while for you to
admit that you were doing the classifying and that it is your
opinion.

A lot lot of off topic nonsense snipped. Anyone interested by now knows how readily you admittted YOU were the classifying authority and if they have any question about it all they have to do is review your previous posts.

Not only did the D7 win its class, but they put it in wiht the
Procams.

Actualy Minolta entered the D7 in the "Prosumer/Professional" class. The G2 as a "prosumer" camera could just as well have been entered in this category.

 

[Jon W77861]

A lot lot of off topic nonsense snipped. Anyone interested by now
knows how readily you admittted YOU were the classifying authority
and if they have any question about it all they have to do is
review your previous posts.

So? Where is this obiquitious rating authority and their listing? Where is yours? Why do you keep avoiding this? Show me a more valid way to classify the cameras, and I'll be glad to reference that in the future.

Actualy Minolta entered the D7 in the "Prosumer/Professional"
class.

Ahh, but the D7 won it's class (as did the D5). Kinda hard to argue that it was placed in to too high-end of a category when it won.

The G2 as a "prosumer" camera could just as well have been
entered in this category.

Oddly, enough the G2 didn't win in it's class (whichever it was). But why do you think Canon didn't enter the camera in the prosumer class if it was their choice?

Marketing people are supposed to know who's buying their camera, and which other cameras their camera competes with in terms of features/price. Why would you discount their opinion? This is what they do.

 

[Willie G.]

lol, this is funny stuff, thanks guys )

I've checked out the D7 in the store, spent quite a while with it. I KNOW what you mean about the EVF, it's cool. I prefer the functionality of my G2's LCD, but the EVF does give a more useful and accurate (if choppy) view of what to expect after pressing the shutter.

It's not a viewfinder, and regardless how many time Canonites
tell me it is, I'm not buying it. It's NOT a viewfinder, it's a
LCD display. Yes you can see the view thru the lens thru the
Display, yes you can focus with the Display, etc, etc, etc ... but
it's not the little eyepiece sized thingie that you stick your eye

up to and look thru.--Willie G.Kulmbach. GermanyCanon G2- my eyeglasses have Carl Zeiss lenses - http://www.pbase.com/effzee

 

[crl]

A lot lot of off topic nonsense snipped. Anyone interested by now
knows how readily you admittted YOU were the classifying authority
and if they have any question about it all they have to do is
review your previous posts.

So? Where is this obiquitious rating authority and their listing?

I never said there was one. As a matter of fact we agreed there wasn't one when we said anyone could reasonably classify cameras any way they see fit. You are the one who referred to some authority when you made the following statement.

Where is yours? Why do you keep avoiding this?

It is not important plus see above.

Show me a more valid way to classify the cameras, and I'll be glad to reference that in
the future.

You miss the point I don't care how you feference the cameras. But when you make such definitive statements inferring some great classification authority which does not exist then make it clear that you are expressing your opinion.

Discussion fo DIMA awards snipped

If you want to discuss JonW I would suggest you start a new thread with the awards as the topic

 

[Jon W77861]

lol, this is funny stuff, thanks guys )

I've checked out the D7 in the store, spent quite a while with it.
I KNOW what you mean about the EVF, it's cool. I prefer the
functionality of my G2's LCD, but the EVF does give a more useful
and accurate (if choppy) view of what to expect after pressing the
shutter.

Yes, there's no doubt what the EVF is trying to deliver on is great. How well it delivers on it is purely subjective, and I don't have a problem at all if you prefer taking your shots with the G2's LCD instead of the D7's EVF.

The quality of the EVF wasn't really the issue, though. It's basically a love it, or hate it sort of thing (it is much better in RL then in a store, though). As EVF technology improves more people are gonna love it. I believe the EVF on the D7 is a bit slow for the same reason it has more resolution (each pixel displays r/g/b but it takes 3 times as long to refresh them).

The main thing, is that I can manually focus a D7 with either the EVF or the LCD, whereas this is only possible with the G2's LCD. It's simply a tradeoff you've made when selecting the G2.

 

[Jon W77861]

You miss the point I don't care how you feference the cameras. But
when you make such definitive statements inferring some great
classification authority which does not exist then make it clear
that you are expressing your opinion.

I don't recall claiming or inferring any great authority. Again, that was just your opinion. Weren't we gonna stick to facts?

Discussion fo DIMA awards snipped
If you want to discuss JonW I would suggest you start a new thread
with the awards as the topic

Nah, we already have a nice discussion going on about this in the Minolta forum. I wouldn't even be in this forum if you hadn't dragged our discussion over here for reasons unknown to me.

I just thought it was rather hilarious the classifications they gave the cameras given our ongoing discussion. Apparently, both Minolta and Canon agree with my classification? I think I'm content with that.

 

[LarryT]

It's not a viewfinder, and regardless how many time Canonites
tell me it is, I'm not buying it. It's NOT a viewfinder, it's a
LCD display.

And what do you think the EVF is? It's a smal LCD! Regardless of it's position or what you want to call it. It has nothing to do with whether it's on a Canon or any other type of camera. I'm not defending Canon, I'm challenging your argument.

It's really quite simple. I don't care if you prefer Minolta over Canon. I don't care if you prefer an EVF viewfinder to an optical one. I don't care if you like being able to manually focus through the viewfinder. None of these thing makes the camera an SLR. You may prefer to use an EVF, and that's perfectly alright. But to come out and say that it is a fact that this makes the D7 more of an SLR is just, quite simply, bogus. Your argument is fundamentally flawed. And then to imply that the Fuji 2800, with its EVF, could be considered an SLR, if it has manual focus capability... This is ludicrous.

Have you ever seen an SLR with an EVF viewfinder? I haven't. You argued that the LCD is not the same as the EVF because it gets it's image from the CCD. Isn't that where the EVF image comes from? An SLR uses mirrors to reflect the actual image coming through the lens such that you use an optical eyepiece to see through the lens. Just having a small LCD that you can put your eye up to and see a represented image does not make it any more of an SLR than any other digicam. You may feel that the D7 is more like an SLR than the G2, and that's your prerogative. But it is just that, your opinion. It may be shared by others but that still doesn't make it fact.

I'm sure you will come up with your own defensive statements, supporting your opinions as you have already done. As such, I will make no further responses as you just don't seem to get it. Either that or you feel a need to strongly justify your decision for some reason. Either way, arguing with you is obviously futile.

 

[Willie G.]

Gee... you're STILL here? Have the Minolta folks put out an APB on you yet?

The quality of the EVF wasn't really the issue, though.

Um... there was an issue? I thought it was slapstick. Nevermind.

The main thing, is that I can manually focus a D7 with either the
EVF or the LCD, whereas this is only possible with the G2's LCD.
It's simply a tradeoff you've made when selecting the G2.

hmm... after a few months with the G2, I think using any camera without a swivel/pivot LCD would be a trade-off. Canon should have left the dinky viewfinder off and given the real estate to something else, imo.

Anyway, I think you've made a lot of good points and you've also been very cordial in this thread. If anyone throws the "troll" word at you, I'll bop them over them over the head with my mini tripod.--Willie G.Kulmbach. GermanyCanon G2- my eyeglasses have Carl Zeiss lenses - http://www.pbase.com/effzee

 

[Mike Roberts]

Call the eye hole thingey on the top of the camera a TIM, and call
the 1.8" LCD thingey a FRED. Ok? It doesn't matter what you call
them, but intelligent conversation just can't exist if you keep
using the same names for different things.

In this whole series of posts talking about how one uses a given cameras composition/manual focus/manual exposure mechanisms you left one important fact.

FREDs can be blinded by the light making FRED, at times, rather useless. TIMs do not suffer this problem.

Can we call focal length MR. HOLMES?

Mike Roberts

 

[Jon W77861]

Anyway, I think you've made a lot of good points and you've also
been very cordial in this thread. If anyone throws the "troll" word
at you, I'll bop them over them over the head with my mini tripod.
Willie G.

Thanks, Willie.

I know these my camera .vs. your camera threads can get out of control.

The D7 and G2 are both fantastic cameras. It's just some of these little issues which become big when evaluating 'em. For someone comparing the two cameras though, they do need to evaluate and decide if they are more comforatable focusing via the D7's EVF (or LCD) or the G2's LCD, decide if that extra megapixel or the wider zoom lens on the D7 is important .vs. the size/weight. Those seem like the biggies to me.

 

[Jon W77861]

FREDs can be blinded by the light making FRED, at times, rather
useless. TIMs do not suffer this problem.

Heh, I didn't even want to travel down the road of why some of us prefer to use a TIM, rather then a FRED. Better stability, higher resolution, the larger virtual image, glare is eliminated, old fashioned camera feel, etc, etc.

My main point is just that the G2 just doesn't have a TIM. If they enjoy their FRED's, more power to 'em. But my wife and I personally ruled out TIM'less cameras like the G2 as an upgrade to our old digicam.

I don't think we're unique in that ...

 

[Jon W77861]

And what do you think the EVF is? It's a smal LCD! Regardless of
it's position or what you want to call it.

It's position and size make all the difference in the world to me, and many others.

It has nothing to do
with whether it's on a Canon or any other type of camera. I'm not
defending Canon, I'm challenging your argument.

Yes? Get on with it.

None of these thing makes the camera an SLR.

Oh? What does praytell? A mirror? What about prisms? If you want to limit the use of the term SLR to just cameras which use mirrors, I suppose i have no problem with that, but you'd better come up with a term to describe the pro-end of the market which offers TTL viewfinders that you put up against your eye which includes mirror, prism, and LCD technologies.

Because the D7 belongs in that category, and the G2 does not.

But to
come out and say that it is a fact that this makes the D7 more of
an SLR is just, quite simply, bogus.

Why?

Your argument is fundamentally flawed.

How so?

And then to imply that the Fuji 2800, with
its EVF, could be considered an SLR, if it has manual focus
capability... This is ludicrous.

Again, why?

Have you ever seen an SLR with an EVF viewfinder? I haven't.

Minolta calls the D7 a DSLR, so apparently I have.

Just having a small LCD that you can put your eye up to and see a
represented image does not make it any more of an SLR than any
other digicam.

Why not? Is there something special about mirrors that small LCD's can't do?

It may be shared by others but that still doesn't make it
fact.

What would make it a fact?

I'm sure you will come up with your own defensive statements,
supporting your opinions as you have already done.

Nah, I've done so in other replies. I think I'll just stick to pointing out that all your doing is stating your opinion without backing it up with any reasons.

As such, I will
make no further responses as you just don't seem to get it.

That's certainly your choice.

Either that or you feel a need to strongly justify your decision for some
reason.

Nah, not really. A simple comment I made to help out a potential G2/D7 purchaser was blown out of proportion and dragged over to this forum by a Canonite.

Either way, arguing with you is obviously futile.

Generally, yes, because I rarely say something without a reason. So you're never going to convince me of something different until you convince me there's something wrong with my reasoning.