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Move to Full Frame for First DSLR ?

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coredumpinmars

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Do you guys think its worth buying D600 as first DSLR (not to choose DX ) ? I have owned used mirror less /interchangeable lens cameras for last 3 years. I just think I take good photos, and if not , my wife takes amazing photos, I wish I could buy her a good camera for best times in our life (we just started living together).
1. Maintenance cost ?

Apart from lenses does it cost to maintain a DSLR , I hear a lot about sensor cleaning, etc ? Would it be required a lot ? Not to mention, each photo is now 20 MB, I better start getting storage also .

2. Learning curve ?

Does it take a lot to learn using features and getting best out of D600 ? I understand basics of photography, how aperture, shutter speed, ISO affect the picture.

3. More lenses ?

If I start with kit lenses 24-85mm VR Lens, 70-300mm VR Lens, will it cover most of things I need to shoot ? , people (family functions) , kids and places.

4. Shelf Life ?

Point and shoots are in people mobile phones , will it soon happen that we would see people using Full Frame camera's like Point and Shoots ? If so , will it happen in next 5 years ?

5. D7000 ?

I have seen reviews that D600 is 20% better images than D7000 , and can do low light and better video, Is it worth spending that $1000 for D600 compared to D7000 ?

6. D7100 ?

Would it be worth a wait for D7100 , has latest features as D5200 and with a weather proof body ?
 
a 'Smart' car.... (please don't flame me.. I just don't like them personally)



Most of what you mentioned in your post.. Usage/learning curve etc could equally apply to buying some high performance car (relatively)

However even a novice driver can get from A to B in a Ferrari.. and after some time he probably could get there quicker!


The difference between these two cars is more than four wheels and using petrol as you know... and so is the difference in cameras. Low light capability etc.

Keeping a Ferrari is going to be more expensive than the 'other' car.

You'll get some more advice in this thread on what to consider in your choice.. Good luck! :)
 
coredumpinmars said:
coredumpinmars wrote:
Do you guys think its worth buying D600 as first DSLR (not to choose DX ) ? I have owned used mirror less /interchangeable lens cameras for last 3 years. I just think I take good photos, and if not , my wife takes amazing photos, I wish I could buy her a good camera for best times in our life (we just started living together).
Click to expand...
1. Maintenance cost ?

Apart from lenses does it cost to maintain a DSLR , I hear a lot about sensor cleaning, etc ? Would it be required a lot ? Not to mention, each photo is now 20 MB, I better start getting storage also .

2. Learning curve ?

Does it take a lot to learn using features and getting best out of D600 ? I understand basics of photography, how aperture, shutter speed, ISO affect the picture.

3. More lenses ?

If I start with kit lenses 24-85mm VR Lens, 70-300mm VR Lens, will it cover most of things I need to shoot ? , people (family functions) , kids and places.

4. Shelf Life ?

Point and shoots are in people mobile phones , will it soon happen that we would see people using Full Frame camera's like Point and Shoots ? If so , will it happen in next 5 years ?

5. D7000 ?

I have seen reviews that D600 is 20% better images than D7000 , and can do low light and better video, Is it worth spending that $1000 for D600 compared to D7000 ?

6. D7100 ?

Would it be worth a wait for D7100 , has latest features as D5200 and with a weather proof body ?

Hi,
  1. maintenance Cost : Will be +/- the same IMO ( buying FX body and lenses is much more expensive, determine your budget for DX and FX in advance and check if want to spend that amount of money on FX ... ).
  2. comparable with D7000 IMO ( shallower DOF for the same f stop compared to DX ).
  3. maybe add a 50 mm f1.8 or 1.4 ( low light ), 85 mm f1.8 ( portrait ), a SB700/901 flash
  4. IMO cell phones and mirror less camera's will gain in volume, DX will lower, FX will gain. Read Thom Hogans opinions about the future of DX and other opinions ... http://www.bythom.com/index.htm (lower on the webpage under the D5200 annoncement).
  5. If you want a more budget friendly, lower weight and smaller system then the D7000/D5100/D5200/D3200 is an excellent choice
  6. Dont know , we will have to wait untill the D7100 is released.
Maybe post your question also on the FX forum for other opinions ?

Good luck with your choice.

Greetings,
Marc

ps : some interesting tutorial websites :

www.luminous-landscape.com

Tutorials Table of Contents

Tutorials Table of Contents - Luminous Landscape
www.luminous-landscape.com
http://www.normankoren.com/sitemap.html

If you want to learn about CNX2 :



my photos (examples, see dpreview galleries):
 
If you've got the cash, then go for it. There's not a whole lot of difference, but everything gets slightly better. I think the biggest question is what the market will look like in a few years in terms of lens support. Full frame has the benefit of being the gold standard format for consumers as a result of many decades of 35mm film dominance, so I'd find it difficult to be unconvinced that full frame is the best format for long term investment.
 
I think you're approaching this the wrong way around.

First identify what you need the camera and lens system to do, then fill in cost effective components of that system.

You're trying to start from a particular component ( the D600 ) and fill in other bits without any criteria to guide you.

I'm very skeptical that even most experienced amateurs need a full frame system. I'd go as far as saying many pros don't either. A lot depends on what you shoot, but for most people they'll not feel any benefit from full frame, IMO.

If you're already using mirrorless, what does that system not do that you need to ?


So perhaps you'd explain what you need from the system as a whole.
 
My Full Frame Envy syndrome comes and goes. Currently, I'm in remission.

I LOVE my D7000's images and its more compact size and weight. With the fantastic Nikkor 17-55mm f/2.8G beautiful brick attached, it's all the weight I'd ever want to carry and hold to shoot for long periods of time, especially after I use my little X100 on the street a bit and come back to the DSLR.

I'd suggest going with your wife to a store to hold both bodies and see if you both really want the heavier and larger and more expensive (glass) FX system as you go through life, it's too much for this shooter,
 
QUOTE:
1. Maintenance cost ?

2. Learning curve ?

3. More lenses ?

If I start with kit lenses 24-85mm VR Lens, 70-300mm VR Lens, will it cover most of things I need to shoot ? , people (family functions) , kids and places.

4. Shelf Life ?

5. D7000 ?
/quote


Most of your questions can be answered with this:

It's going to take years of hard work to get the most out of any dslr. You aren't going to get significanly better photos from any body until you put in the time to learn how to do it. Years. Does your wife /want/ to learn? Mine doesn't. She has a hard time remembering to turn the dial to the big green "Auto" setting. "How come this picture is all white?" She has a good eye, but no interest.



If you're not shooting in the dark, or making really big enlargements, then you won't see any benefit to full frame. I occasionally make 36x48 inch enlargements from my d3100. If you get close you can see the pixels, but are /you/ going to get close to a print that big and look for them?



If you're like me, then you always /need/ more lenses. But the ones you mentioned will get you started. You might just start with the 24/85 and see how that works for you. If you spend a lot of time at 80 then get a longer lens to go with it. If you spend all your time at 24 get a wider lens. If you spend all you time at 50 then get a 50 1.4. Might want that one anyway. Or a 35 1.4. Just depends on what you shoot. If you go with DX instead of FX the lenses are cheaper. In DX, a 70-300 is a long lens. I have an 80-200 and I rarely use it. When I need it then it's great.



Shelf life depends on you. Many people seem to remain happy with their d40s. I'm entirely happy with my d3100's image quality, and generally happy with the features, but my eyes are going bad, so I just bought a d200 for the better finder.



Something you didn't mention is size and weight. FF camers are bigger and heavier than DX cameras. If that's an issue, then consider it.
 
If you can afford it, go for the D600. The benefit of FX is that it makes taking pictures easier. The D600 is no bigger than a D7000 and is a bit lighter. Bigger viewfinder, much better cropping ability, better focusing, wider latitude for all exposure settings, the usual list. It also has the "gorgeous" factor, a subliminal but easily recognizable look to the pics that the D7000 has on occasion at base ISO, but a lot less frequently. The D700/D3s had that full frame juiciness, the D600 has it without leaving out the fine details.

The kit lens and the 70-300VR are excellent. You'll want a 50 and a 35 prime at some point, which are very inexpensive and sharp as tacks.
 
> The benefit of FX is that it makes taking pictures easier

Most of taking good shots is about core technique and I don't see how full frame makes that easier than crop frame.
 
Invest in the best gear you can AFTER you budget in a workshop or two in the type of work you intend to do with the camera.

So if you budgeted for a D600 and FF lenses.

You could buy a D7000 and a cheaper kit and take the remainder and book a workshop.

In that scenerio, the D7000 will have given you better pictures because THEN you know exactly what to do with it.

For example....below are some pictures with my 5 year old camera that the D7000 easily out performs.

The diffrence is my experience.

Good luck with whatever you choose. If you let me know what interests you for shooting I can reccomend a nice kit.

original.jpg


Here is what I can do with a 12 year old Point & Shoot CoolPix:

large.jpg


Roman






--
The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious; It is the source of all true art and science.
~ Albert Einstein
http://www.commercialfineart.com/
http://www.pbase.com/romansphotos/
 
Last edited:
coredumpinmars said:
coredumpinmars wrote:
Do you guys think its worth buying D600 as first DSLR (not to choose DX ) ? I have owned used mirror less /interchangeable lens cameras for last 3 years. I just think I take good photos, and if not , my wife takes amazing photos, I wish I could buy her a good camera for best times in our life (we just started living together).
Click to expand...

What's wrong with your current system that you think will be corrected by buying a new camera? What does your wife think? Which of you will use the camera the most?

I'm not trying to be mean or a smarta$$, but it's very easy to waste a lot of money on camera gear, if you don't know what you really need. It's especially important when you indicate that both you and your wife are photographers.


When looking at buying into a camera system, changing to a new system like you are doing, you shouldn't just look at the body. The lenses are the most important part of any system and will generally outlast 4 or 5 generations of bodies quite easily. For example, most of my lenses date back to 2004, when I bought into a Nikon system with the d70. I've since owned the d200, d300, d700, d3s, d7000 and d5100. Good lenses work fine on any body and the best lenses generally give you the opportunity to get the best photos.

My advice would be to figure out which lenses you need and then figure out what they cost. I highly recommend that you browse the Nikon SLR lens forum, found here, and discover the lenses most recommended for the types of shooting that you want to do. Then you can decide which body to buy, based on the money left in your budget.

If I were in your shoes, I'd be very open to both Canon and Nikon systems. I'd suggest that both of you go look at the various cameras available from both makers. Handle the cameras and compare the feature lists, to see how each would fit into your style of shooting. Try to find a place where the batteries are installed into both DX and FX cameras, so you can see how the autofocus points cover the frame. DX cameras have much better AF point frame coverage than FX cameras, for example, because the FX frame is significantly larger than DX, thus the AF points are clustered much more in the center of the frame than they are on a DX camera.

Once you determine the brand you like and assuming that you want Nikon, then all you really need to do is determine your max budget. The learning curve and other stuff is the same for either format. You will get excellent images from any of Nikon's dslr's. If you don't, then I'd suggest that it's likely a user problem rather than a camera problem, especially if you have good lenses.

If your budget will allow for 2 or 3 top level lenses and the d600, then by all means, that would be a very good choice. The d600 seems to be an excellent general purpose camera. If your budget won't stretch that far, then I'd suggest buying the d7000. It's also an excellent general purpose camera and it has the added benefit of being a good camera for long telephoto work, if that is also of interest to you and your wife.

Personally, I generally prefer the higher level cameras with lots of user controls and adjustments, like those of the d7000 and higher. But, I recently obtained a d5100 and have found it to be a delightful little camera. It has excellent image quality and does very well as a general purpose camera. I certainly wouldn't hesitate to use it on some paid shoots. So, if you don't want/need the higher level of user controls of the d7000 or d600, then the d5100 would work very well for you, IMO.


In short, both Canon and Nikon make excellent systems. Pick your poison, but seriously consider buying the best glass that you can, because it should serve you well for many, many years. Bodies will come and go and they lose their value very quickly. Buying a new system can be overwhelming with all of the information that you need to learn. My advice is to take your time and not let it overwhelm you. When it hits that point, just step back and ask questions about the things that you find confusing or unclear.


good luck

Kerry
 
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