MacOS update model broken?

[ljed]

First, I am a Windows user and have no first-hand experience with MacOS.

I have recently offered my son to buy his M1 notebook. I do not really need it as my 9-year Windows 10 Asus is still going strong but this could help him finance a new Apple toy if he wants and I could learn something new.

However, I am beginning to think that MacOS is not a good solution for me because of endless system updates that seem to ruin workflows or render software/hardware incompatible. Out of my memory:

• AirPrint printer drivers replacing manufacturers' software without notice (probably only a small nuisance).
• threads like this one: Mac OS update reset Photoshop without warning .
• MacOS annual upgrades that require printer manufacturers to replace their printer drivers. I hear Epson seems to update their drivers in a timely manner, Canon not so much.
• MacOS upgrades ruining color management.
• MacOS upgrades that make not-so-old software incompatible. I have used Capture One (CO) for 6-7 years under perpetual licences. It is my principle photography piece of software. So far upgraded only once after a camera upgrade. However, I read that CO will only be updated (guaranteed to run) on the latest 3 MacOS versions. If so, this could render perpetual licences obsolete in 3 years' time. Let me not start investigating my decade's old Synology Diskstation compatibility issues under MacOS...

My attitude is "if it works it works". I do not want to buy stuff because of backward (in)compatibility or dig inside the system to sort things out after every update. This attitude does not seem to play well with the bullets above.

I believe there are fewer issues like that from Windows users here. Is MacOS update model really as broken as I read on these forums or it's just internet whining and things can be sorted out in a reasonably smooth and timely manner?

 

[D Saul]

wrong forum?

 

[charlyw64]

I believe there are fewer issues like that from Windows users here. Is MacOS update model really as broken as I read on these forums or it's just internet whining and things can be sorted out in a reasonably smooth and timely manner?

For the most part it's just whining because things are different and Apple runs a much tighter and cleaner ship than Windows. If both were ships then on Windows the devs simply put a layer of paint over the rust, in MacOS the rusty hole is cut out and replaced by a shiny new section of hull. I am a Windows software developer but when I can avoid having to run this mess privately I do so by going to my MacOS computers.

 

[Matt2134]

First, I am a Windows user and have no first-hand experience with MacOS.

I have recently offered my son to buy his M1 notebook. I do not really need it as my 9-year Windows 10 Asus is still going strong but this could help him finance a new Apple toy if he wants and I could learn something new.

However, I am beginning to think that MacOS is not a good solution for me because of endless system updates that seem to ruin workflows or render software/hardware incompatible. Out of my memory:

• AirPrint printer drivers replacing manufacturers' software without notice (probably only a small nuisance).
• threads like this one: Mac OS update reset Photoshop without warning .
• MacOS annual upgrades that require printer manufacturers to replace their printer drivers. I hear Epson seems to update their drivers in a timely manner, Canon not so much.
• MacOS upgrades ruining color management.
• MacOS upgrades that make not-so-old software incompatible. I have used Capture One (CO) for 6-7 years under perpetual licences. It is my principle photography piece of software. So far upgraded only once after a camera upgrade. However, I read that CO will only be updated (guaranteed to run) on the latest 3 MacOS versions. If so, this could render perpetual licences obsolete in 3 years' time. Let me not start investigating my decade's old Synology Diskstation compatibility issues under MacOS...

My attitude is "if it works it works". I do not want to buy stuff because of backward (in)compatibility or dig inside the system to sort things out after every update. This attitude does not seem to play well with the bullets above.

I believe there are fewer issues like that from Windows users here. Is MacOS update model really as broken as I read on these forums or it's just internet whining and things can be sorted out in a reasonably smooth and timely manner?

I wouldn't worry, these shouldn't be regular or significant issues.

The thread about photoshop reset was started by me, and it is the first time anything like that has happened since I switched to Mac in 2010 - I raised it in case it was about to be an issue, but it seems like just my system so far. I have had MANY more issues over the years with windows than I have Mac, and most of the issues that came about from the switch from intel to apple silicon are long resolved

 

[JohnWheeler]

First, I am a Windows user and have no first-hand experience with MacOS.

I have recently offered my son to buy his M1 notebook. I do not really need it as my 9-year Windows 10 Asus is still going strong but this could help him finance a new Apple toy if he wants and I could learn something new.

However, I am beginning to think that MacOS is not a good solution for me because of endless system updates that seem to ruin workflows or render software/hardware incompatible. Out of my memory:

• AirPrint printer drivers replacing manufacturers' software without notice (probably only a small nuisance).
• threads like this one: Mac OS update reset Photoshop without warning .
• MacOS annual upgrades that require printer manufacturers to replace their printer drivers. I hear Epson seems to update their drivers in a timely manner, Canon not so much.
• MacOS upgrades ruining color management.
• MacOS upgrades that make not-so-old software incompatible. I have used Capture One (CO) for 6-7 years under perpetual licences. It is my principle photography piece of software. So far upgraded only once after a camera upgrade. However, I read that CO will only be updated (guaranteed to run) on the latest 3 MacOS versions. If so, this could render perpetual licences obsolete in 3 years' time. Let me not start investigating my decade's old Synology Diskstation compatibility issues under MacOS...

My attitude is "if it works it works". I do not want to buy stuff because of backward (in)compatibility or dig inside the system to sort things out after every update. This attitude does not seem to play well with the bullets above.

I believe there are fewer issues like that from Windows users here. Is MacOS update model really as broken as I read on these forums or it's just internet whining and things can be sorted out in a reasonably smooth and timely manner?

The "dot" updates rarely cause any issues for me.

I turn off automatic updates and just get notified. Based on the content, I decide when to update.

For major OS updates, I wait until the next one is about to come out. For example, I just updated to Sonoma even though Sequoia just came out. That way, the bugs are fixed before I update it.

It has been a very long time since I worked on a Windows system, so my information is quite dated. However, I have always had more problems with Windows updates and bugs in general than with Windows software.

My whole extended family uses Macs and has few problems. I was the IT guy for them when they used Windows machines, but I am out of a job now that they use Macs. I think that says something.

These are my opinions, of course.

 

[ljed]

Yes and no.

My concern is Capture One 3-year "service life" under MacOS (if it is true). At the moment I have near-current CO version 16.3 as well as CO10 (about 6-7 years old) on the same machine. Both seem to work fine though I keep the latter only for printing - it's a long story... If frequent MacOS updates pushed me to upgrade CO every 3 years, then I would effectively be on Capture One 3-year subscription. Alternatively, I could refrain from updating MacOS. Not a perfect solution but it might work.

 

[terrydev]

You don't *have* to update, you know.

These are offered and it's not compulsory - the Apple police won't surround your house or anything.

Equally, 99%+ people run these updates with no issues and go on with their lives. And if there is a glitch, then you have the back up you made prior to updating, and you can roll back...

 

[JohnWheeler]

Yes and no.

My concern is Capture One 3-year "service life" under MacOS (if it is true). At the moment I have near-current CO version 16.3 as well as CO10 (about 6-7 years old) on the same machine. Both seem to work fine though I keep the latter only for printing - it's a long story... If frequent MacOS updates pushed me to upgrade CO every 3 years, then I would effectively be on Capture One 3-year subscription. Alternatively, I could refrain from updating MacOS. Not a perfect solution but it might work.

Most software developers have already moved to a model where they only qualify new releases on the existing OS and two versions back (which ends up being about 3 years). It's a practical matter.

Testing complex software for bugs is no easy task, and repeating that on three versions of OS is 3X the work. Since most customers run on the new or last two versions of OS, the business decision was to test only that far back. It does not mean that the software won't work on older OSes; it just means you are driving without seatbelts, so to speak, and you won't have much customer support from the software company.

The remaining support depends on other customers posting on forums about how they still make it work on old OSes, which can be a pain. There are also different risks, such as missing out on likely better security with the new OSes.

Choices

 

[ljed]

Delayed updates are an option. I hope I would still have some reasonable anti-virus protection even without the latest system upgrade installed.

 

[SoCalAngler]

Yes and no.

My concern is Capture One 3-year "service life" under MacOS (if it is true).

Apple tends to release a new OS version every year and each version typically is supported with updates for a year or two and security fixes for around 3 years.

If you want to run your Mac and have the latest security patches you have about six years of functionality minimum for most software you will purchase. It may be longer since some older software may continue to run with newer OS versions.

You can opt to not upgrade OS at some point, though in many cases software will run on newer versions of the OS.

I have software on my late 2015 iMac that I purchased in 2016 that still runs on the now no longer supported MacOS Monterey, which is the 7th version of MacOS that I have run on that machine.

Now when Mac moved on from Intel to their own ARM "M" chips the change in hardware and required OS changes rendered a lot of older software incompatible with the new design. That would be expected when you have a significant architecture change. A similar thing happened when WIndows added 64bit architecture versions of the OS (and with Windows 11 eliminated the 32bit version).

Many software vendors are trending toward guaranteeing their products will work with the latest three versions of the OS but many support even older versions. For example, when I look a the minimum requirements for Capture One 23, it says the oldest oldest Mac OS version that it will work with is version 11.7 (Big Sur) , released in 2020, which four versions behind the current one.

In some cases a software product may work with older software and hardware versions but some features may require updated hardware and operating system. For example I use Affinity Photo 2 which works fine with my Intel based mac but some of the new features expected to be added later this year, at no additional cost, require the new Apple chip based systems.

I have never had an issue with color management associated with a MacOS update. With one update, the display profile reverted from my custom profile created with a calibration tool to a default factory profile, but it took 30 seconds to go into system preferences and switch back to the profile I was previously using. I then recalibrated but couldn't discern any difference between the new profile and the previous version I was using.

At the moment I have near-current CO version 16.3 as well as CO10 (about 6-7 years old) on the same machine. Both seem to work fine though I keep the latter only for printing - it's a long story... If frequent MacOS updates pushed me to upgrade CO every 3 years, then I would effectively be on Capture One 3-year subscription. Alternatively, I could refrain from updating MacOS. Not a perfect solution but it might work.

--
If cameras and lenses can have autofocus then why can't I?

 

[ljed]

I'd like to thank you all for your feedback.

It looks like issues related to MacOS updates are exceptions rather than normal.

I will have to work harder if I want to retreat from my offer (yes, lazy-me is speaking)