Mac vs. Windows

[Michael Fryd]

There was a recent thread discussing whether or not choice of platform made a significant difference when the software you used ran identically on both.

That got me thinking that there are lots of elements of the operating system that do play a role in the day to day workflow of a photographer.

For instance Mac OS-X includes support for something called a "fusion drive". This is essentially an internal SSD drive paired with a traditional spinning internal HD to form a single logical volume. From the user's viewpoint, it looks like a single drive. The OS is in charge of deciding what goes where. Files you use a lot end up on the SSD. Files you rarely use get bumped to the HD. All of this happens in the background without the user needing to pay attention.

I'm not a Windows guy, but I assume that Windows offers similar functionality.

If one platform has a different implementation than the other, this difference can make something like Lightroom more responsive on one platform than the other.

Another example is backup software. OS-X includes "Time Machine". With just a few clicks the system will automatically backup to an external drive (or to some networked drives). It's an incremental backup system that saves a snapshot of all files every hour. Hourly backups are kept for a day. Daily backups for a month, and weekly backups for as long as there is room on the backup drive. The restore program is built into the GUI. Select a file or folder and click the Time Machine icon and you get a "stack" of snapshots showing the available backups. leaf through the stack to find the snapshot you want, and click "restore". That's it.

If you want redundancy, you can have multiple backup drives. Time Machine will alternate between the various available drives. Take one home with you for a week, and it will catch up when you bring it back.

If your HD dies, replace it, and the firmware will let you boot off Apple's servers over the Internet. You can then restore your HD from any snapshot on the backup drive.

Im not a Windows guy, but I presume Windows also comes with backup software.

While it doesn't directly affect the operation of something like Photoshop, your choice of backup system can make a big difference in your life. Accidentally overwrite your master file with a web sized JPEG, and it's nice to know that you have a recent backup.

====

I'm not here to argue over which system is better. What I'd like to do is to discuss the capabilities of each system where they differ from the other. By understanding the differences, people can make an informed choice as to which OS is a better match for their needs.

Not everyone will care about the default backup strategy, some people will have their own system in place to meet your needs.

Something like Apple's "Fusion Drive" is irrelevant if you have an SSD instead of a HD, or you have only HD.

What are the actual functional differences (if any) between OS-X and Windows? Let's try to stay away from value judgements of "better" and "worse", and stick to comparing and contrasting functionality.

 

[dlevitt]

An old, and un funny joke is that there is a lot of backup software for Windows - but there is no restore software for Windows.

Windows still seems to have no painless option for transporting the saved state of the system [most recent backup] to new hardware. [There are some mirrored drive sort of options, but they depend on the failed and new hardware being an almost exact match]

There is a lot of overlap in capabilities, and for some unexplainable reason there are folks who prefer the Win UI, but my personal hardware is either MacOS or Linux.

 

[CallMeAlan]

Just a brief opinion or two: in well over 10 years of personal Mac ownership I've seen a total hangup once.

My Windows laptop - a necessary evil for work, but a very high spec HP - gives me the blue screen of death at least twice a month.

Mac OS updates take maybe half an hour, from time to time.

It seemed that every time I switched on the laptop there were Windows updates, sometimes taking well over half an hour.

OSX is nice.

Windows is ugly.

(All personal opinions. YMMV.)

 

[Mike_PEAT]

For instance Mac OS-X includes support for something called a "fusion drive". This is essentially an internal SSD drive paired with a traditional spinning internal HD to form a single logical volume. From the user's viewpoint, it looks like a single drive. The OS is in charge of deciding what goes where. Files you use a lot end up on the SSD. Files you rarely use get bumped to the HD. All of this happens in the background without the user needing to pay attention.

I'm not a Windows guy, but I assume that Windows offers similar functionality.

Both Mac and Windows has support for hybrid hard drives (that's what the Fusion drive is, Fusion is just Apples name for their branded hard drives). You can buy hybrid drives from several hard drive manufacturers...for instance I installed a Segate hybrid drive in my Macbook Pro, it didn't have to be a "Fusion" specific drive.

Another example is backup software. OS-X includes "Time Machine". With just a few clicks the system will automatically backup to an external drive (or to some networked drives).

I spent a week trying to figure out what was wrong with Time Machine on my Mac Pro...there was one file that had a hidden character in the filename (which I couldn't find), and Time Machine would come up with an error and crash every day when it tried to backup the drive.

While I do use Time Machine on my work Mac Pro for mirroring the entire hard drive on a second internal hard drive, I use a third-party program to backup my daily work that allows syncing with an external hard drive, which I then take home and sync with my home Mac and then continue work at home...the next day I can then sync my home machine with the external drive and take the drive back to work and sync it with the Mac Pro.

Anyway, Windows has its own backup/restore software built-in, but I've always used third-party backup software.

I'm not here to argue over which system is better. What I'd like to do is to discuss the capabilities of each system where they differ from the other. By understanding the differences, people can make an informed choice as to which OS is a better match for their needs.

Each OS has positives and negatives, and neither is better. In BOTH cases there are certain programs that are available only on the one platform. I mostly use Windows at home, and Mac at work (my employer used to work for Apple, but sometimes he has asked me to bring in a Windows laptop to test part of our website on IE or upgrade firmware on some hardware because it can only be upgraded in Windows.

I have antivirus software on both my Windows and Mac machines, although Macs are less vulnerable to viruses, there's still the possibility of accidentally running malware on the Mac.

What are the actual functional differences (if any) between OS-X and Windows?

Honestly, especially these days when both platforms run the same hardware and CPU, there's little difference. It's like driving two different types of cars (say a two-seater sportscar vs. a minivan)...they have some different capability but most of the experience is the same.

 

[Michael Fryd]

Just a brief opinion or two: in well over 10 years of personal Mac ownership I've seen a total hangup once.

My Windows laptop - a necessary evil for work, but a very high spec HP - gives me the blue screen of death at least twice a month.

Mac OS updates take maybe half an hour, from time to time.

It seemed that every time I switched on the laptop there were Windows updates, sometimes taking well over half an hour.

OSX is nice.

Windows is ugly.

(All personal opinions. YMMV.)

 

[Mike CH]

I spent a week trying to figure out what was wrong with Time Machine on my Mac Pro...there was one file that had a hidden character in the filename (which I couldn't find), and Time Machine would come up with an error and crash every day when it tried to backup the drive.

I get reports almost every single blooming day from Win10 that pathnames are too long for backups. I think I'd rather have your problem, frankly - because that actually has a solution

In 15 years attempting to do backups on my PC at home I have tried and failed to come up with something that is as convenient as TimeMachine is - can you point me at one?

I am a bit tired of keeping my PC files on a Synology RAID NAS and backing that one up.

Even half as convenient would do. It does not have to be included with the OS, although that would be nice.
Regards, Mike

 

[aquavideo]

There was a recent thread discussing whether or not choice of platform made a significant difference when the software you used ran identically on both.

Which is not always the case. For collaborative reasons I need to use Word on my iMac. Not only doesn't it respond well but documents created on a Windows machine might display differently.

That got me thinking that there are lots of elements of the operating system that do play a role in the day to day workflow of a photographer.

Sure thing. Stability comes to mind. For me one of the best things in OSX is searching and Quicklook

For instance Mac OS-X includes support for something called a "fusion drive". This is essentially an internal SSD drive paired with a traditional spinning internal HD to form a single logical volume. From the user's viewpoint, it looks like a single drive. The OS is in charge of deciding what goes where. Files you use a lot end up on the SSD. Files you rarely use get bumped to the HD. All of this happens in the background without the user needing to pay attention.

I'm not a Windows guy, but I assume that Windows offers similar functionality.

IMHO the Fusion Drive should retire soon. M.2 for system drives and SSD for storage.

If one platform has a different implementation than the other, this difference can make something like Lightroom more responsive on one platform than the other.

There must be SOME difference because the code is different.

Another example is backup software. OS-X includes "Time Machine"

IMHO there are much better backup strategies than Time Machine

====

I'm not here to argue over which system is better. What I'd like to do is to discuss the capabilities of each system where they differ from the other. By understanding the differences, people can make an informed choice as to which OS is a better match for their needs.

To me its a clean interface, stability, searching and Quicklook. But i'll tell you this: if Photoshop were available natively I'd probably hit Elementary OS for a try.

 

[Mike_PEAT]

Just a brief opinion or two: in well over 10 years of personal Mac ownership I've seen a total hangup once.

My Windows laptop - a necessary evil for work, but a very high spec HP - gives me the blue screen of death at least twice a month.

I use several different Macs and several different Windows machines. In the past 5 years my Windows computers have been more stable than the Macs I use. I can't remember the last time I've seen a blue screen of death, where as many times I've had the spinning beachball on my Mac and had to reboot it because it was frozen (I normally restart my Macs once every two weeks so I don't have issues...after two weeks my Mac Pro starts acting up).

In the other post I wrote in this thread I talked about Time Machine crashing because it came across a filename with a hidden character, and it took me a week to find that file!

Mac OS updates take maybe half an hour, from time to time.

The last update I did on my Macbook Pro took me a WEEK to go from 10.7 to 10.11. Every time I tried to install 10.11 on it (which took 6 hours to download EVERY time, even though I used a network cable rather than wireless, and it downloaded the whole file each time rather than using the file that got stored in the Recovery partition), after downloading the update the computer would restart, the bar would start filling up, get 10% full, and then the computer would reboot and would repeat with showing the bar again and again at the 10% point the computer would reboot. Eventually got it working but I hold my breath whenever I have to do a cold boot.

Windows OS updates have never been an issue, even going fro 7 or 8 to 10 on all of the machines I use.

It seemed that every time I switched on the laptop there were Windows updates, sometimes taking well over half an hour.

I have my Windows machines set to do updates only at night so I never notice how long they take or even have to monitor them.

OSX is nice.

Windows is ugly.

It's hard to fix an OSX issue...Mac hides any problems from you, that's why it's "nice".

Never had a problem fixing a Windows problem (when I did have them which was rare).

 

[Mike_PEAT]

Which is not always the case. For collaborative reasons I need to use Word on my iMac. Not only doesn't it respond well but documents created on a Windows machine might display differently.

You reminded me of the problems I have with Mac's Textedit program.

I read/write the same file every day...I use it for the list of images I have to work with that day (as well as the past day's work I haven't done yet).

I have that file always open, and save it whenever I make a change to it. After so many saves it comes up with an error message that the file "could not be saved"...example:

What I do in that point is select all the text with Cmd-A, copy, quit Textedit, restart Textedit, and then paste and then I can save.

The silly thing is you can go weeks being able to save, and then suddenly you can't save!

 

[aquavideo]

The last update I did on my Macbook Pro took me a WEEK to go from 10.7 to 10.11. Every time I tried to install 10.11 on it (which took 6 hours to download EVERY time, even though I used a network cable rather than wireless, and it downloaded the whole file each time rather than using the file that got stored in the Recovery partition), after downloading the update the computer would restart, the bar would start filling up, get 10% full, and then the computer would reboot and would repeat with showing the bar again and again at the 10% point the computer would reboot. Eventually got it working but I hold my breath whenever I have to do a cold boot.

That is one of the things I would never do, wether it's Windows or OSX. Always backup your data and do a clean install. Especially if you are skipping several versions.

 

[Tom_N]

For instance Mac OS-X includes support for something called a "fusion drive". This is essentially an internal SSD drive paired with a traditional spinning internal HD to form a single logical volume. From the user's viewpoint, it looks like a single drive. The OS is in charge of deciding what goes where. Files you use a lot end up on the SSD. Files you rarely use get bumped to the HD. All of this happens in the background without the user needing to pay attention.

I'm not a Windows guy, but I assume that Windows offers similar functionality.

It doesn't.

Both Mac and Windows has support for hybrid hard drives (that's what the Fusion drive is, Fusion is just Apples name for their branded hard drives). You can buy hybrid drives from several hard drive manufacturers...for instance I installed a Segate hybrid drive in my Macbook Pro, it didn't have to be a "Fusion" specific drive.

A Fusion Drive is not a "branded hard drive".

What hard drive manufacturers call a "hybrid drive" is a hard drive with a small amount of onboard SSD cache. (E.g., 64 MB to 128 MB of cache on a Seagate FireCuda "gaming" drive). This cache is transparent to the operating system.

A Fusion Drive is an operating-system-level construct. The OS manages the space on an internal SSD, and on a partition of an internal HDD, as one logical volume. It decides where to put, and where to move, pieces of files. A 1 TB Fusion Drive has a 32 GB SSD. The 2 and 3 TB Fusion drives have 128 GB SSDs. Because it is the OS that maintains the Fusion arrangement, other OSes should not access the Fusion drive except via network drive access or running in a virtual machine.

 

[aquavideo]

You reminded me of the problems I have with Mac's Textedit program.

I read/write the same file every day...I use it for the list of images I have to work with that day (as well as the past day's work I haven't done yet).

I have that file always open, and save it whenever I make a change to it. After so many saves it comes up with an error message that the file "could not be saved"...example:

What I do in that point is select all the text with Cmd-A, copy, quit Textedit, restart Textedit, and then paste and then I can save.

The silly thing is you can go weeks being able to save, and then suddenly you can't save!

Never seen this before. What version do you run and is auto-save enabled on your machine?

Edit: sorry just saw that it says "could not be autosaved" in the pop-up. Delete preferences and repair permissions?

 

[Michael Fryd]

For instance Mac OS-X includes support for something called a "fusion drive". This is essentially an internal SSD drive paired with a traditional spinning internal HD to form a single logical volume. From the user's viewpoint, it looks like a single drive. The OS is in charge of deciding what goes where. Files you use a lot end up on the SSD. Files you rarely use get bumped to the HD. All of this happens in the background without the user needing to pay attention.

I'm not a Windows guy, but I assume that Windows offers similar functionality.

Both Mac and Windows has support for hybrid hard drives (that's what the Fusion drive is, Fusion is just Apples name for their branded hard drives). You can buy hybrid drives from several hard drive manufacturers...for instance I installed a Segate hybrid drive in my Macbook Pro, it didn't have to be a "Fusion" specific drive.

There's a significant difference between Apple's OS Level support for Fusion drives and a Seagate Hybrid drive.

The Seagate Hybrid drive adds some (perhaps 8GB) SSD storage to a standard spinning HD. As far as the OS is concerned, it's a regular HD, that sometimes responds very quickly. The SSD acts as a write through cache for the drive.

A 1TB Seagate Hybrid may be about 99% spinning HD and 1% SSD.

The drive doesn't have access to higher level file information, and cannot take that into consideration when deciding what to mirror in the SS storage.

Apple's Fusion drive actually uses two separate drives. My Mac Mini has an internal spinning 1TB HD, and a separate internal 120GB SSD. As far as the user is concerned it looks like a single 1.12 TB storage device. Over 10% of the storage space is SSD, enough to hold everything needed to boot, and my frequently run applications.

The OS knows what a file is, knows what files being to applications, knows which are system files, and can make use this information to decide whether a particular file/application should be stored on SSD, HD, or split between the two.

Without the Fusion Drive software, I could a separate SSD volume and a separate HD volume. I could manually decide what to put where. However it can be a challenge to put often used system files on the SSD, while keeping rarely used system files on the HD.

If you summarize Fusion drive functionality into 2 o 3 words it sounds very similar to Seagate's SSHD Hybrid drives, but when you actually take a close look, there are significant functional differences between the two.

I have an iMac with both a 1TB SSD and a 1TB HD in it. If I want, I can configure it as a 2TB boot volume, with 1TB on SSD.

The Fusion Drive technology is just one aspects of Apple's "Core Storage" architecture. Core Storage is also the foundation for OS-X's builtin whole disk encryption.

Another example is backup software. OS-X includes "Time Machine". With just a few clicks the system will automatically backup to an external drive (or to some networked drives).

I spent a week trying to figure out what was wrong with Time Machine on my Mac Pro...there was one file that had a hidden character in the filename (which I couldn't find), and Time Machine would come up with an error and crash every day when it tried to backup the drive.

Yes, nothing is perfect. Assuming this bug hasn't been fixed, then Time Machine is not a good solution for those who need certain hidden characters in filenames.

While I do use Time Machine on my work Mac Pro for mirroring the entire hard drive on a second internal hard drive, I use a third-party program to backup my daily work that allows syncing with an external hard drive, which I then take home and sync with my home Mac and then continue work at home...the next day I can then sync my home machine with the external drive and take the drive back to work and sync it with the Mac Pro.

You make a good point. Built in backup solutions are not important to those who have their own solutions customized for their specific needs.

Anyway, Windows has its own backup/restore software built-in, but I've always used third-party backup software.

My goal was not to complain about one or the other, but to compare the functionality of the two.

How does the Windows built-in backup system work? Does it support multiple backup destinations? What's the procedure for restoring a single, overwritten file? What's the procedure for restoring a replaced boot disk? What's the procedure for restoring to a replacement computer?

I'm not here to argue over which system is better. What I'd like to do is to discuss the capabilities of each system where they differ from the other. By understanding the differences, people can make an informed choice as to which OS is a better match for their needs.

Each OS has positives and negatives, and neither is better. In BOTH cases there are certain programs that are available only on the one platform. I mostly use Windows at home, and Mac at work (my employer used to work for Apple, but sometimes he has asked me to bring in a Windows laptop to test part of our website on IE or upgrade firmware on some hardware because it can only be upgraded in Windows.

Yes. I don't want to discuss which is better. I want to discuss what the differences are.

You do have a good point about browsers. The default browser on the Mac is Safari. I believe that this is also available for Windows, and I assume the rendering is the same on both platforms. However Internet Explorer and Edge are not available on the Mac. Therefore, if you are a web developer, Windows offers a wider variety of browsers for testing.

I use a Mac for web development, and I need to open Windows in a Virtual Machine to test how the sites look to Windows users.

I have antivirus software on both my Windows and Mac machines, although Macs are less vulnerable to viruses, there's still the possibility of accidentally running malware on the Mac.

Yes, both can run malware.

OS-X does have an option to make it difficult to run "unsigned code" on the Mac (code not from a traceable Mac developer). Or even code not obtained through Apple's online "App Store" This can make is harder to accidentally run malware.

My computer is set so that it will automatically run apps from real developers (Adobe, Apple, etc.). However a few extra clicks are needed to run software from anonymous sources, or downloaded from the web.

Does Windows offer similar functionality?

What are the actual functional differences (if any) between OS-X and Windows?

Honestly, especially these days when both platforms run the same hardware and CPU, there's little difference. It's like driving two different types of cars (say a two-seater sportscar vs. a minivan)...they have some different capability but most of the experience is the same.

Good analogy. Both are vehicles, but there are clear differences in capability between a sports car and a minivan. I know a little bit about this as I have both a minivan and a 2 seat Miata.

It doesn't make sense to argue over which is the "better" vehicle - that depends on your needs. However it can be very helpful to discuss how the functionality of the two differ. Perhaps the minivan holds more people, perhaps the sports car can make tighter turns.

What I hope to do in this thread is not to argue over which is better, but to discuss the actual functional differences between the two. Many people only have experience with one of the two. This can lead to misconceptions (for instance thinking that Apple's fusion drive is just their brand name for a SSHD hybrid drive.)

 

[Michael Fryd]

There was a recent thread discussing whether or not choice of platform made a significant difference when the software you used ran identically on both.

Which is not always the case. For collaborative reasons I need to use Word on my iMac. Not only doesn't it respond well but documents created on a Windows machine might display differently.

It's not a cross platform issue. Even if you and your collaborators have the same version of the OS and the same version of Word, a document may display differently if you have different fonts installed on the two systems.

One of the advantages of PDF files is that they can have embedded fonts so the document looks the same everywhere.

I guess the functional difference here is that Windows and Mac come with a different set of installed fonts.

 

[Sonyshine]

I think you are confused....

 

[Michael Fryd]

I think you are confused....

I stand corrected. Perhaps I should have said: "Mac OS-X vs. Windows."

 

[JDC1958]

Try this:

Acronis True Image - Integrated Backup and Security Solution

Acronis True Image, formerly Cyber Protect Home Office - the only personal cyber protection solution that delivers easy-to-use, integrated backup and anti-malware in one

www.acronis.com

I have it and tested it on my 5 year old Gateway Desktop and it worked like a charm. I am not going to test it on my new ASUS ROG Laptop but if I do need it, I am using it to BU my data on both machines.

Everything about the ASUS is still under warranty so I am not going to mess with it in the least unless I have to.

I have never depended on builtin recovery systems for anything I consider critical; and the companies I work for and with do not either. It does not matter if it is a Red Hat or SUSE Linux Server or a Windows Server, they only trust 3rd party BU Solutions with their millions of dollars of data.

 

[aquavideo]

It's not a cross platform issue. Even if you and your collaborators have the same version of the OS and the same version of Word, a document may display differently if you have different fonts installed on the two systems.

Sure that's a posibility, but I checked that on my end. It's random stuff like different break points in paragraphs and such.

One of the advantages of PDF files is that they can have embedded fonts so the document looks the same everywhere.

Sure. But a PDF is not exactly editable the way a word document is.

I guess the functional difference here is that Windows and Mac come with a different set of installed fonts.

Fonts can be installed. It's the code that's different. It just doesn't translate everything 100%.

 

[Mike_PEAT]

You reminded me of the problems I have with Mac's Textedit program.

I read/write the same file every day...I use it for the list of images I have to work with that day (as well as the past day's work I haven't done yet).

I have that file always open, and save it whenever I make a change to it. After so many saves it comes up with an error message that the file "could not be saved"...example:

What I do in that point is select all the text with Cmd-A, copy, quit Textedit, restart Textedit, and then paste and then I can save.

The silly thing is you can go weeks being able to save, and then suddenly you can't save!

Never seen this before. What version do you run and is auto-save enabled on your machine?

Edit: sorry just saw that it says "could not be autosaved" in the pop-up. Delete preferences and repair permissions?

Saved, autosaved, makes no difference. It's been written about several times in Apple's support forums...many "solutions" suggest, none have worked 100%!

 

[Mike CH]

Try this:

https://www.acronis.com/en-us/perso...rc=affiliate.cj.5226272&cvo_campaign=12325005

I've tried Acronis; didn't really convince me in the ease-of-use department, truth be told...

Everything about the ASUS is still under warranty so I am not going to mess with it in the least unless I have to.

And that remark convinces to not try it all. Backup software should under no circumstances put your system at risk.
Regards, Mike