LX7 - Range of Exposure in HDR

[PhilSouth]

Does anyone know the exposure range set by the LX7 when using the built-in HDR in either the Creative or the Scenes mode? And, is there any way to expand that range?

I do a LOT of interior HDR photography using this great camera, sometimes hundreds in a single day. Using good HDR software with -2, 0, +2 bracketed exposures gives great results, but takes many hours for so many images.

Call me lazy, but it would be great to use the built-in HDR feature. I have experimented a little, but these just don't seem to do the trick as-is. Default Creative HDR seems a bit better than Scene HDR mode (for me anyway), but it's just not "there." Is there an adjustment or menu I am missing? I hope so.

Thanks
Phil

 

[Cyril Catt]

PhilSouth wrote: Does anyone know the exposure range set by the LX7 when using the built-in HDR in either the Creative or the Scenes mode? And, is there any way to expand that range?

[...] Call me lazy, but it would be great to use the built-in HDR feature. I have experimented a little, but these just don't seem to do the trick as-is. Default Creative HDR seems a bit better than Scene HDR mode (for me anyway), but it's just not "there." Is there an adjustment or menu I am missing? I hope so. Thanks Phil

Phil, I presume that you are currently using the Auto Bracket function, for a burst of three exposures at EV settings of 0, and minus and plus settings of up to 3EV?

The High Dynamic setting in the Creative Control mode appears to be like that which was introduced to the LX3, and not a “proper” HDR, although it “creates a picture with well-balanced brightness for the entire picture (from dark areas to bright areas)”. It allows the user to set the amount of under or overexposure, as well as the extent of background defocus, and strength of colour.

I can find no details of the settings for the HDR function in the Scenes Mode

 

[PhilSouth]

Indeed, I do use the bracketing feature currently - at -2, 0, and +2. This gives pleasing results of interiors after running through HDR software.

Just "eyeing" the Scene HDR results, they look like no more than +/- 1 EV on a good day. It would be so amazing (and TIME SAVING) to be able to adjust that somehow. Got to be a way, a setting or a trick to it. This is an amazingly versatile camera...just needs a few tweeks.

 

[PhilSouth]

One clarification...while I think the processing of Creative HDR has a little better output, I know it is really just one image. However, the HDR in Scene Mode does actually take three photos and combine them.

So, I guess it is Scene Mode HDR adjustment I am really asking about.

 

[Cyril Catt]

PhilSouth wrote: One clarification...while I think the processing of Creative HDR has a little better output, I know it is really just one image. However, the HDR in Scene Mode does actually take three photos and combine them.

So, I guess it is Scene Mode HDR adjustment I am really asking about.

Phil, as Panasonic labels the setting in the LX7's Creative Controi mode as "High Dynamic" I suspect it is much the same in its action as the High Dynamic setting which was added in the LX3’s Firmware update. It carried the following description, instructions and notes.

“You can use this mode to easily record pictures in which bright and dark regions of the

scene are expressed with suitable brightness when looking into the sun, at night, or in

similar circumstances.

HIGH DYNAMIC

• Setting the effect

1 Press 3/4 to select the effect to use, and then press [MENU/SET].

It can be set from the quick menu.

[ STD]: Natural color effect

[ART ]: Eye-catching effect which emphasises contrast and color

[B&W]: Black and white effect

2 Take pictures.

Note

• ISO sensitivity is fixed to [ISO400].

• RAW pictures cannot be recorded.

• Compensation effect may not be achieved depending on the conditions.

• The shutter may remain closed (max. about 8 sec.) after taking the picture because of signal

processing. This is not a malfunction.

• The focus range is 1 cm (0.04 feet) (Wide)/30 cm (0.99 feet) (Tele) to ¶.

• Noise on the LCD monitor may show up more than in normal recording conditions due to

compensation of the shadowy area, making it brighter.

• Only [‹] and [OE] for flash can be set.

• You cannot use Burst Mode and [ ] in [AF MODE].”

-----------------------------------

However, the LX7 manual instructions on High Dynamic state the following, which gives some control over the process, so it may not be the same:

"This picture effect creates a picture with a well-balanced brightness for the entire picture (from dark areas to bright areas)

• Items that can be set

Brightness Underexposure (darker) <---> Overexposure (brighter)

Degree of

Background Defocuses the background <---> The background is in focus as well

Defocussing

Coloring Black & white <---> Gaudy colouring"

-----------------------------------

To activate these HD settings, I seem to have worked out that the following sequence of buttons is required.

1. set the dial to the Creative Control setting

2. Press the Up(^) or Down(v) buttons to move to the High Dynamic screen

3. Press the central Menu/Set button to return to the Record screen

4a. Press the Right (>) button to display the Brightness, Defocusing, and Coloring options

[OR 4b. press Down button to go to +/- EV display ... SEE 9 BELOW]

5a. Use the Up or Down buttons to choose an option

6a. Use the Left (<) or Right (>) buttons to set the level of the option

7a. Press the Menu/Set button to return to the Record screen

8a. Take picture, [OR go to 4a to set another option and repeat]

-------------------------------------

It also seems that the extent of the +/- EV settings can also be set, as follows, but I have not checked the effectiveness

5b. [from +/- EV display] press down button for +/- EV setting display

6b. Press Right arrow to increase EV spread, or left arrow to decrease EV spread

7b. Press central Menu/Set button to return to the Record screen

8b. Take picture

-------------------------------------

I also think that I have worked out how to set the +/- EV scale for Scene Mode HDR, but I have not checked the effectiveness, as it is late at night at the moment, and I am tired.

1. Set dial to Scene Mode

2. Use Left, Right, Up, Down buttons to choose HDR setting

3. Press the Menu/Set button to return to the Record screen (with white EV scale below)

4. Press scroll wheel in (to turn EV scale yellow)

5. Rotate scroll wheel to set EV scale

6. Take picture

-------------------------------------

Please let me know if this helps

Cyril

 

[PhilSouth]

Thanks very much! BUT, I cannot get it to adjust regardless of Mode. Maybe I missed your instruction ("See 9" -- did not see a #9 in the post).

It seems that in Creative Mode HDR, when choosing the [+/-] option, an exposure setting bar shows up, but it is uni-directional only. That is, it does not show a spread, but only one direction to go bright or to go dark. Experimenting verified that the photo will be just that, very bright or very dark only - no spread at all - no HDR effect at all as well. I tried this several times.

I am SURE I missed something very important, as it appears you succeeded where I did not.

In the Scene Mode HDR, I had a similar experience, but will look more closely again.

Thanks

Phil

 

[PhilSouth]

Went back to the instructions quoted and may have found a clue to the problems...although still not succeeding. Basically, it says you can do these things with the LX7, but does not say How.

"[1].Brightness Underexposure (darker) <---> Overexposure (brighter)

[2].Background Defocuses the background <---> The background is in focus as well

[3].Coloring Black & white <---> Gaudy colouring"

I think the 1st setting above must be done with the pressing/turningwheel behind the shutter button;
The second setting is ...who-knows-where (it is not the ND/Focus switch, that's for sure);
The third setting seems to be the bar display I did find, as the left end desaturates to B&W and while the right end (+) is full color, but only if you chose one of the automatic setting (i.e., NOT the [+/-] setting.

Apologies for my apparent confusion.

 

[sailingB]

I also recently bought the LX7 and immediatly downloaded the manual from the Panasonic website to learn the features of this camers. Thet manual only gives explanations of all the buttons so I didn't "learn" much about how to use these buttons. I went searching on the internet and found this manual : Photographer's Guide to the Panasonic Lumix LX7. I downloaded it on my iPod Touch using iTunes and read the complete book. It gives you more information about how to use the different buttons and what they do in reality. In Belgium the price was only about 5 euros but I learned a lot. I hope you get your answers.

 

[Cyril Catt]

PhilSouth wrote: Thanks very much! BUT, I cannot get it to adjust regardless of Mode. Maybe I missed your instruction ("See 9" -- did not see a #9 in the post).

It seems that in Creative Mode HDR, when choosing the [+/-] option, an exposure setting bar shows up, but it is uni-directional only. That is, it does not show a spread, but only one direction to go bright or to go dark. Experimenting verified that the photo will be just that, very bright or very dark only - no spread at all - no HDR effect at all as well. I tried this several times.

I am SURE I missed something very important, as it appears you succeeded where I did not.

In the Scene Mode HDR, I had a similar experience, but will look more closely again. Thanks Phil

Oops! Sorry, Phil. It was late and I failed to check properly after I renumbered the sections.

Here is the corrected order, but I have still not had time to check them out

-----------------------------------

The LX7 manual instructions on High Dynamic state the following, which gives some control over the process, so it may not be the same:

"This picture effect creates a picture with a well-balanced brightness for the entire picture (from dark areas to bright areas)

• Items that can be set

Brightness Underexposure (darker) <---> Overexposure (brighter)

Degree of

Background Defocuses the background <---> The background is in focus as well

Defocussing

Coloring Black & white <---> Gaudy colouring"

-----------------------------------

To activate these HD settings, I seem to have worked out that the following sequence of buttons is required.

1. set the dial to the Creative Control setting

2. Press the Up(^) or Down(v) buttons to move to the High Dynamic screen

3. Press the central Menu/Set button to return to the Record screen

4a. Press the Right (>) button to display the Brightness, Defocusing, and Coloring options

[OR 4b. press Down button to go to +/- EV display ... GO TO 5b BELOW]

5a. Use the Up or Down buttons to choose an option

6a. Use the Left (<) or Right (>) buttons to set the level of the option

7a. Press the Menu/Set button to return to the Record screen

8a. Take picture, [OR go to 4a to set another option and repeat]

-------------------------------------

It also seems that the extent of the +/- EV settings can also be set, as follows, but I have not checked the effectiveness

5b. [from +/- EV display] press down button for +/- EV setting display

6b. Press Right arrow to increase EV spread, or left arrow to decrease EV spread

7b. Press central Menu/Set button to return to the Record screen

8b. Take picture

-------------------------------------

I also think that I have worked out how to set the +/- EV scale for Scene Mode HDR, but I have not checked the effectiveness, as it is late at night at the moment, and I am tired.

1c. Set dial to Scene Mode

2c. Use Left, Right, Up, Down buttons to choose HDR setting

3c. Press the Menu/Set button to return to the Record screen (with white EV scale below)

4c. Press scroll wheel in (to turn EV scale yellow)

5c. Rotate scroll wheel to set EV scale

6c. Take picture

-------------------------------------

 

[trevmar]

The only LX7 HDR worth using is the new HDR mode built into the RAW processing of Silkypix Pro (still available on special offer). If you are interested in HDR you must try this. Every RAW image you develop can have a variable amount of HDR added to it - I have been getting some amazing shots this way. Just use the camera in normal PASM, the HDR can be added when processing the RAW image.

 

[Cyril Catt]

sailingB wrote: I also recently bought the LX7 [...] The manual only gives explanations of all the buttons so I didn't "learn" much about how to use these buttons. I [...] found this manual : Photographer's Guide to the Panasonic Lumix LX7. [...] It gives you more information about how to use the different buttons and what they do in reality.[...]

The Photographer's Guide to the Panasonic Lumix LX7 does indeed complement the Panasonic manuals, but unfortunately does not detail the often complex sequence of steps needed to achieve each of the large number of different results that are possible with the LX7. Users may still have to resort to trial and error to work out how to set the camera to carry out some special functions. Then, on restarting after turning the camera off, some of those settings are retained whilst others have been reset.

 

[PhilSouth]

Thanks again! Got it - with the exception of setting the exposure spread (STILL cant do that - see below). The [+/-] seems to influence the output photo appearance, but not the dynamic range, or spread, captured in the image. In fact, if the [+/-] setting is supposed to be where exposure 'spread' is set, I do not believe mine is working.

NOTE: It dawned on me - FINALLY - that in Creative HDR Mode, the Right(>) button selection reveals 3 "AND" options where I thought those were "OR" options, like so many other menu trees; that is, I was mistaken in thinking you could chose [+/- Exposure] OR [Face-in-front-of-tree-icon 'focus'] OR [Palette icon 'Color']! Duh...what a dummy I am.

Okay, so now progress is being made here, but one more thing is extremely confusing -- Given that Creative HDR produces ONE in-camera HDR image, how is it possible that you can set bracketing in that mode??? Seriously, while in Creative HDR Mode, the DOWN ring button still gives a choice of "single shot - burst shots - auto bracket - timer." Auto bracket gives 3 photos and is the only place allowing a spread setting. Hence, no Single HDR image...so it's back to the computer software for that.

Is that confusing or what ?!

 

[PhilSouth]

trevmar wrote:

The only LX7 HDR worth using is the new HDR mode built into the RAW processing of Silkypix Pro (still available on special offer). If you are interested in HDR you must try this. Every RAW image you develop can have a variable amount of HDR added to it - I have been getting some amazing shots this way. Just use the camera in normal PASM, the HDR can be added when processing the RAW image.

Alas, that appears not to work on a 32bit Windows 7 computer -- must be 64bit; Silkypix Pro 5 with the new single RAW HDR function is apparently not available in 32bit.

 

[morepix]

There are many "black box" functions in the LX7, as in most any other camera, that are not knowable by the owner. We just have to either use them or not, depending on whether they produce the result we want.

I know you wouldn't, for example, ask what's the tone curve used in converting the raw image data to a JPG. You just fiddle the sliders and find out as an "outsider" how it can be made to work to your satisfaction.

I know: curious minds want to know. But ...

 

[trevmar]

PhilSouth wrote:

trevmar wrote:

The only LX7 HDR worth using is the new HDR mode built into the RAW processing of Silkypix Pro (still available on special offer). If you are interested in HDR you must try this. Every RAW image you develop can have a variable amount of HDR added to it - I have been getting some amazing shots this way. Just use the camera in normal PASM, the HDR can be added when processing the RAW image.

Alas, that appears not to work on a 32bit Windows 7 computer -- must be 64bit; Silkypix Pro 5 with the new single RAW HDR function is apparently not available in 32bit.

Phil, I am running Sillypix on Windows XP, 32bit. SillyPix's installer is designed to ask your machine if it is 32bit or 64 bit machine, and then it will install either version. So the architecture of your OS has to be defined, and that is a relatively recent change Microsoft has made.

I had the same problem as you, initially, and I fixed it somewhere deep in the mists of time.
I recall it was a registry patch to tell installers that my 32bit system was 32 bit and not 64 bit. Why don't you raise this as a support ticket with SillyPix - maybe they have the solution readily at hand and it will save me digging around?

I might add that the DXOmark software, and other 'modern' packages which had failed to install were all fixed once I had put this tweak into my Windoze....

 

[PhilSouth]

Phil, I am running Sillypix on Windows XP, 32bit. SillyPix's installer is designed to ask your machine if it is 32bit or 64 bit machine, and then it will install either version. So the architecture of your OS has to be defined, and that is a relatively recent change Microsoft has made.

I had the same problem as you, initially, and I fixed it somewhere deep in the mists of time.
I recall it was a registry patch to tell installers that my 32bit system was 32 bit and not 64 bit. Why don't you raise this as a support ticket with SillyPix - maybe they have the solution readily at hand and it will save me digging around?

I might add that the DXOmark software, and other 'modern' packages which had failed to install were all fixed once I had put this tweak into my Windoze....

Done. Thanks for the suggestion. I wish sometimes that Windows would not play Big Brother like that quite so often.

 

[trevmar]

Yes, it wouldn't be so bad if you got an error message saying what was happening. Initially I guessed like you - that it was a 64bit application - but no, it was both 32bit and 64 bit, and Windoze couldn't figure out which to install

 

[Cyril Catt]

PhilSouth wrote: Thanks again! Got it - with the exception of setting the exposure spread (STILL cant do that - see below). The [+/-] seems to influence the output photo appearance, but not the dynamic range, or spread, captured in the image. In fact, if the [+/-] setting is supposed to be where exposure 'spread' is set, I do not believe mine is working.

NOTE: It dawned on me - FINALLY - that in Creative HDR Mode, the Right(>) button selection reveals 3 "AND" options where I thought those were "OR" options, like so many other menu trees; that is, I was mistaken in thinking you could chose [+/- Exposure] OR [Face-in-front-of-tree-icon 'focus'] OR [Palette icon 'Color']! Duh...what a dummy I am.

Okay, so now progress is being made here, but one more thing is extremely confusing -- Given that Creative HDR produces ONE in-camera HDR image, how is it possible that you can set bracketing in that mode??? Seriously, while in Creative HDR Mode, the DOWN ring button still gives a choice of "single shot - burst shots - auto bracket - timer." Auto bracket gives 3 photos and is the only place allowing a spread setting. Hence, no Single HDR image...so it's back to the computer software for that.

Is that confusing or what ?!

Sorry again, Phil. I did not make it clear that I believe that the HD [High Dynamic] effect in the Creative Control mode is just that. It is NOT an HDR [High Dynamic Range] setting.

In the LX3, an HD setting was added to the Scene Mode in a firmware update. Its purpose was “to easily record pictures in which bright and dark regions of the scene are expressed with suitable brightness when looking into the sun, at night, or in similar circumstances.” In operation it sets ISO to ISO400, and disables RAW recording and Burst mode. It appears to reduce highlights somewhat and increase shadow detail, so is useful for backlit subjects, for example, these were shot with the LX3's HD setting:


Without HD


With HD


Without HD


With HD


With HD

I don’t know if the HD setting in the LX7’s Creative Control mode does the same. The manual states that it “creates a picture with well-balanced brightness for the entire picture (from dark areas to bright areas.”, which could imply that it is similar to the HD setting in the LX3. However, the HD setting in the LX7 allows the user to adjust the extent of • brightness, • background defocusing, and • coloring.

In contrast, the LX7’s Scene Mode [HDR] setting does appear to provide a High Dynamic Range capability, in which “The camera can combine several still pictures taken with different exposures into a single properly exposed picture with rich gradation.”.

I did get the choice of "single shot - burst shots - auto bracket - timer." at one stage whilst trying to work out the options. When that comes up, I think it means we are in another setting menu, but I will have to check out the button sequences again.

--
Cyril

 

[Cyril Catt]

Something went wrong with my last photo. Let me try again




This should be in portrait format



--
Cyril

 

[Cyril Catt]

Here is an amplification of the button sequences in the Creative Control HD setting menu.

(The manuals really need a few flow charts to make all these covert options more easy to master!)

1. set the dial to the Creative Control setting

2. Press the Up(^) or Down(v) buttons to move to the High Dynamic screen

3. Press the central Menu/Set button to return to the Record screen

4a. Press the Right (>) button to display the [Brightness, Defocusing, and Coloring] options

[OR 4b. press the Down button to go to the [Single, Burst, +/-2, Selftimer] options... GO TO 5b BELOW]

[OR 4c. press the Left button to go to the [Autofocus area]option… GO TO 5c BELOW

5a. Use the Up or Down buttons to scroll through those three options to the one you want.

6a. Use the Left (<) or Right (>) buttons to set the level of the option

7a. Press the Menu/Set button to return to the Record screen

8a. Take picture, [OR go to 4a to set another option and repeat setting another of the 3 options]

5b. Use the Right or Left buttons to scroll through those four options to the one you want.

6b. Use the Down button to enter the option choice setting.

7b. Use the Right or left buttons to select the choice you want.

8b. Press the central Menu/Set button to return to the Record screen

9b. Take picture

5c. Use the scroll wheel to set the size of the Autofocus area.

6c. Use the Left, Right, Up, or Down buttons to position the Autofocus area.

8c. Press the central Menu/Set button to return to the Record screen

9c. Take picture