LX 1 Noise Issue Vote

[jimr]

Users...Owners...Actual First Hand Print Experience Please Vote!

Please don't vote if you have ONLY read and seen online images.

ISO 80-100 with 8 X 10 prints. Is noise a:
1. Non-Issue?
2. Minor Issue?
3. Noticeable, but tolerable issue?

4. Noticeable up close, but o.k. to view from 'normal' 3 to 4 ft. viewing distance?
5. A bothersome issue?
6. A Deal Breaker?

 

[Peter Nelson]

--
Artist Eye's
Hi,
Hope you don't mind me chiming in about the LX-1's twin, the D-Lux 2.

My experience with this Leica pocket camera after taking 422 photographs is that prints at 11 x 17 are very good, no noise. I'm looking up at one now, it's hanging on my wall. I took it indoors last week on a cloudy day. I live on long Island NY and the light was -well ther wasn't much that day. I had no interior lights on. ISO was 200 and I didn't use flash.

 

[afhyde]

I have just been printing a slew of shots I took on a recent trip to Cuba. Noise is a non-issue at the ISO settings you're talking about (and I have spent my whole life shooting with ISO/ASA settings of 100 and below.) The speed of the lens more than makes up for the 'disadvantage' of not shooting at higher ISO numbers. The LX-1 is a camera, and should be judged by its photographic results, not the sort of technical specifications that all the camera sites have fallen in love with. As a camera, it's small size, fast lens, full complement of controls, and RAW capability, make it unique. I believe Askey gave it a 'Recommended' rating. This is silly. In certain respects, there is no other choice.
--
Anthony Hyde

 

[Valentin Hertz]

Anthony,
I completely agree with you...It's recommanded only because it's not a Canon...

There is no way you can compare any other camera in this category with LX-1...LX-1 offers lots more than any other compact camera on the market right now...The pictures are just stunning! Buy it if you don't believe it...Or just go blindly with dpreview recoomandations...

Regards,
VH

 

[Godfrey]

Users...Owners...Actual First Hand Print Experience Please Vote!

Please don't vote if you have ONLY read and seen online images.

ISO 80-100 with 8 X 10 prints. Is noise a:
1. Non-Issue?
2. Minor Issue?
3. Noticeable, but tolerable issue?
4. Noticeable up close, but o.k. to view from 'normal' 3 to 4 ft.
viewing distance?
5. A bothersome issue?
6. A Deal Breaker?

 

[skiphunt13]

well put.

I have just been printing a slew of shots I took on a recent trip
to Cuba. Noise is a non-issue at the ISO settings you're talking
about (and I have spent my whole life shooting with ISO/ASA
settings of 100 and below.) The speed of the lens more than makes
up for the 'disadvantage' of not shooting at higher ISO numbers.
The LX-1 is a camera, and should be judged by its photographic
results, not the sort of technical specifications that all the
camera sites have fallen in love with. As a camera, it's small
size, fast lens, full complement of controls, and RAW capability,
make it unique. I believe Askey gave it a 'Recommended' rating.
This is silly. In certain respects, there is no other choice.
--
Anthony Hyde

--
Skip Hunt
Austin, Texas

• visit my blogs, etc. @

http://www.poppinfreshmedia.com
http://spaces.msn.com/members/skiphunt/
http://www.poppinfreshmedia.com/blogger.html
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http://www.poppinfreshmedia.com/skipmexmc.html
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http://www.poppinfreshmedia.com/skiphuntphotoblog.html
http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=83298331

 

[John Bean (UK)]

--
John Bean

PAW 2005 Week 52:



PAW index page: http://waterfoot.smugmug.com/paw
Latest walkabout: http://waterfoot.smugmug.com/gallery/816091

 

[Richard Higgs]

I wanted a high quality take anywhere pocket camera that was fully manual, had a sharp lens and most importantly saved a RAW file. (I never ever shoot in JPEG), for the times I did not want to lug around my two dSLRs.

Now I've been spoilt when it comes to low noise levels in both dSLR and P. & S models. .... My Pentax *istD is amazing at both ISO 1600 & 3200, (The Nikon D70s... Well that's another story... All Nikon (Sony) sensors are noisy... Even the hot selling D200).

In comparable feature set P.& S. models I've owned, the Canon Pro1, G6 ... in terms of high 7 - 8 Mp models.... The G6 being quite useable at ISO400... Better than the Pro1... And lower end models such as Canon G5, S1, A80, etc.

However, none of the above non-dSLRs I've owned really quite fitted the bill.... (I'm a perfectionist, so I'm told).

I bought the LX-1 on Michael Reichmann's recommendation ( of luminous-landscape). He owns one, and I thought if the LX-1 was good enough for this master and famous photographer... Then it's good enough for me.

At first, I was fairly disappointed with the high noise levels, with noise even present at ISO100.... To be honest, Panasonic need to smarten their act in the noise department, especially in this advanced digital age of 2005.

However, ignore those 100% on-screen crops you see... Where noise levels are really scary!

In 10 X 8 prints at ISO 100, it really is a non- issue! The prints are stunning for a digicam of this type.

There is really no other camera in the world at present with the LX-1 / D-Lux2 feature set, RAW and lovely tack sharp Leica lens in such a small and beautiful form factor.

If I were asked what I would like improved (besides low noise levels) in this camera or the next model… I’d say… As nice as the LX-1 LCD is…Give me an optical viewfinder as well!

Kind Regards
Richard Higgs
http://www.pbase.com/rhiggs1

See my Profile for Camera & Equipment listing

“Don’t feel you have to take photos of impressive subjects….
Rather, try to take impressive photos of any subject”.

Photography is 50% photographer, 40% light and 10% equipment.

 

[DWBell]

I print my 16:9 images on 20x15 with white border top and bottom then crop. Therefore longest edge is 20cm, not the 10 you're talking about.

ISO 80, 100 AND 200 are stunning, an absolute non issue. Haven't printed 200 so wouldn't want to comment.

I would agree with the posters above and re-state my view that this is a camera for photogrpahers, not elctronics technicians.

The lens and IS is still blowing my mind.

----
Kind Regards
DWBell

 

[aftab]

A non issue.
--

If you have absolutely nothing else to do, visit my gallery at http://aftab.smugmug.com

 

[mrfitz]

I dont think you will find many owners saying it is a deal breaker. What would have been more interesting.....how many potential buyers decided not to buy it....

I think a fair few have been put off, rightly or wrongly....

It is surely one of the most expensive compacts at the minute....aside from the Leica version

 

[lharris]

Richard makes interesting points. Just charging the battery on my 'rebought' LX1 for take 2.

At those ISO's, prints are buttery beautiful. The higher you go, the more noise is obvious-but depending upon the shot itself and even the color range. I found Blue to blue-green more of a problem.

I also find that indoors in low light the flash is more like a headlight and could be more diffused. And, I would not recommend bumping ISO in lieu of flash. For that I have my F11.

I will send you some photos later in the day when my battery is ready.

It really is a matter of using the camera for its strengths and working around where it is not. Where it is strong, other cameras would be hard pressed to equal it at its size and price point.

But- I really never got good at knowing the camera so I will work more with it now.

Yes. There is noise. There is noise with my A2. If for what you do you can stay at lower ISO's and the other features work for you, the images can be striking, detailed and they print beautifully. I was not out to equal my D70 with its best glass.(85 1.4). In fact, it too often sits unused due to weight and size.

Guess that's why I am working with my 'repurchase'...

Again- I will e-mail samples later because I can do larger sizes for you and you can see what a modest photographer with poor processing skills comes up with for you to look at...

Linda

 

[viztyger]

The LX1 has beautiful natural colours and subtle contrast. The lens is sharp and starts at a (for digicams) wide 28mm. I love the 16:9 aspect, it seems to enhance the wide "feeling" and stimulate creative compositions. There is a much greater difference between a vertical and a horizontal composition than with a standard 4:3 or 3:2 aspect. As to the noise "issue," I've only printed ISO 80 A4 photos, and they were stunning.

http://www.pbase.com/viztyger

 

[Dick Rijken]

I'll map your issues onto an ISO scale:

ISO 80-100 with 8 X 10 prints. Is noise a:

ISO 80/100 > 1. Non-Issue?
ISO 100 > 2. Minor Issue?

ISO 100 issue depends on colors in the scene and exposure--expose on the bright side...

ISO 200 > 3. Noticeable, but tolerable issue?
ISO 400 > 4. Noticeable up close, but o.k. to view from 'normal' 3 to 4 ft.

Some will put ISO 400 in number 5, so that one's personal...

viewing distance?
5. A bothersome issue?
6. A Deal Breaker?

 

[Phil Douglis]

I teach photographic expression, and find my new D-Lux 2 to be a perfect tool for inconspicuous shooting, an ideal carry-with-you everywhere camera. It makes a wonderful companion to my FZ-30. Together, these two cameras provide me with tools to interpret virtually any kind of subject matter, with the exception of sports action better suited to a DSLR. Both have been criticized as "noisy" but in a practical, every day sense, the noise issue is really a non issue. I don't make huge prints. I use my images largely for teaching purposes in my workshops, displaying them on laptop screens, or in my teaching galleries on the Internet. With the fast Leica lens and image stabilization, I seldom need to go beyond 80 or 100 ISO on either of these cameras. But even if I should have to go to 200 or 400 ISO, seeing noise is like seeing pores on skin. If you want too look for pores, you will see them. And if you want to look for noise, you will see it. But most people will just see skin, not pores. And they will just see images, not noise.

I have only one standard when it comes to judging the effect of noise on an image. Does it significantly affect its meaning? If so, how? The answers to these questions will determine if the effect of noise on an image is good, bad, or neutral. I have not as yet had to reject using an image for my teaching because of noise on either of these cameras.

As far as I am concerned, the LX1 (or my D-Lux 2) is a remarkable visual tool. If it produces noise at higher ISOs, so what? It certainly does not impact on how I use my own images.

Phil Douglis
Director, The Douglis Visual Workshops
Phoenix, Arizona
[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/pnd1
http://www.worldisround.com/home/pnd1/index.html
http://www.funkytraveller.com/Pages/travelogues/travelphotophild.htm

 

[skiphunt13]

Here Here! Again, well put.

I remember one of the first and best images I ever shot was at a Queen concert when you used to be able to take your gear into the show. At one point the Great Freddy Mercury came over to my side of the stage while belting out Bohemian Rhapsody. I was probably 7-8 feet from him and could fill up the viewfinder with his image. I was also close enough that his sweat and spit were flying all about and landed on my lens making a few blurry distortions, but he was also backlit so you could actually see the sweat and spit flying. I was shooting a lowly Pentax K-1000 and some Tri-X. I was just learning to process my own black and white... so the final images had a bit of reticulation and the grain structure was large and clumpy.

Still, that image held so much power and emotion that it didn't make any difference. Some of the poor sods today might look at that image and not see the great rock icon in the prime of his life and art.. but only comment, "My goodness! this camera seems to have a serious noise problem. "

Get back to photography as pure emotional light epression.. and away from photography as a recording science!

I teach photographic expression, and find my new D-Lux 2 to be a
perfect tool for inconspicuous shooting, an ideal carry-with-you
everywhere camera. It makes a wonderful companion to my FZ-30.
Together, these two cameras provide me with tools to interpret
virtually any kind of subject matter, with the exception of sports
action better suited to a DSLR. Both have been criticized as
"noisy" but in a practical, every day sense, the noise issue is
really a non issue. I don't make huge prints. I use my images
largely for teaching purposes in my workshops, displaying them on
laptop screens, or in my teaching galleries on the Internet. With
the fast Leica lens and image stabilization, I seldom need to go
beyond 80 or 100 ISO on either of these cameras. But even if I
should have to go to 200 or 400 ISO, seeing noise is like seeing
pores on skin. If you want too look for pores, you will see them.
And if you want to look for noise, you will see it. But most people
will just see skin, not pores. And they will just see images, not
noise.

I have only one standard when it comes to judging the effect of
noise on an image. Does it significantly affect its meaning? If so,
how? The answers to these questions will determine if the effect of
noise on an image is good, bad, or neutral. I have not as yet had
to reject using an image for my teaching because of noise on either
of these cameras.

As far as I am concerned, the LX1 (or my D-Lux 2) is a remarkable
visual tool. If it produces noise at higher ISOs, so what? It
certainly does not impact on how I use my own images.

Phil Douglis
Director, The Douglis Visual Workshops
Phoenix, Arizona
[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/pnd1
http://www.worldisround.com/home/pnd1/index.html
http://www.funkytraveller.com/Pages/travelogues/travelphotophild.htm

--
Skip Hunt
Austin, Texas

• visit my blogs, etc. @

http://www.poppinfreshmedia.com
http://spaces.msn.com/members/skiphunt/
http://www.poppinfreshmedia.com/blogger.html
http://www.poppinfreshmedia.com/moleskine.html
http://www.poppinfreshmedia.com/skipmexmc.html
http://www.poppinfreshmedia.com/skiphuntAVblog.html
http://www.poppinfreshmedia.com/skiphuntphotoblog.html
http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=83298331

 

[mrfitz]

The fact there is a post asking for a vote, that owners feel the dp review was not fair?

 

[Peter Nelson]

--
Artist Eye's

You might be right mrfitz. One thing I'd like to say is it was nice reading all of the previous posts. Sounded like they all actually own the camera. What was really nice is I didn't have to flinch everytime I opened and read another post. Guess I'm getting shell shocked by all the non-owners who are constantly putting the camera down for "noise" I've actually defended my Leica wherever and whenever I read some non-owner complaining. Some of the complaining non owners are even on the Leica Digital Camera Forum.

I'm very happy with mine. It being a pocket camera means that I always have it with me and ready to capture a moment, or to photograph somthing that I find intreging. It's really a capable little camera. I have even been successfull (after a fewl attemps) at capturing subtle lighting in a few B&W still life settings. Dare I even say- Art.

 

[mrfitz]

--
Artist Eye's

You might be right mrfitz. One thing I'd like to say is it was nice
reading all of the previous posts. Sounded like they all actually
own the camera. What was really nice is I didn't have to flinch
everytime I opened and read another post. Guess I'm getting shell
shocked by all the non-owners who are constantly putting the camera
down for "noise" I've actually defended my Leica wherever and
whenever I read some non-owner complaining. Some of the complaining
non owners are even on the Leica Digital Camera Forum.
I'm very happy with mine. It being a pocket camera means that I
always have it with me and ready to capture a moment, or to
photograph somthing that I find intreging. It's really a capable
little camera. I have even been successfull (after a fewl attemps)
at capturing subtle lighting in a few B&W still life settings.
Dare I even say- Art.

Aside from the slightly smart comments, I have borrowed the camera off a friend....

I do think that there are a large number of full sized shots out there for prospective buyer to look at, I do not think you can say non owners cannot make comments...we can all see genuine shots....

If anything owners are unlikely to say their new purchase is not up to much....!

Art...hmmm not one that feels photography is art!

 

[Ceci Land]

At ISO 80-100 and 8x10...total non-issue.

Ceci
--
My photo gallery:
http://ceciland.smugmug.com/Photography